/sci/ - Science & Math

I'm not sure what shitty community college professor you're using as a source for anthropology, but that's not what they believe.

Philosophy.
No explanation necessary

>>2589218
She was a PhD (not that it means anything) and told us that we should have the same respect for the witch doctor than we have for the psychiatrist.
Following that, she argued that there is no such thing as cultural evolution.
>mfw

>>2589219
I feel you.

>ITT: Fields of research you have no understanding of and make assumptions about based on cartoonish stereotypes

psychology cuz they're a bunch of fags who think its cool to be gay and serial killers are cool cos they like their moms and stuff

>>2589219
Philosophy isn't a field of research.

Anyways, theology. And the worst part is, there's a FUCKLOAD of theology majors at my uni.

>>2589219
lol please explain what is wrong with philosophy

>>2589238

Right...so you lifted one example out of there air and decided to brush the entire field of Anthropology with it? You're a retard, stfu.

Oceanography.

Not because it it's a bad field in itself, but because I had a teacher that would rant to class everyday that we know more about space than we do about the ocean.

Well, bitches, we know more about the ocean than we do about the brain. (From one of my books, I don't know which).

I'm going into neuroscience. The brain is so beautiful and sexy that I just came.

>>2589240
Everything.

>>2589236
but that is true and i'm not even close to an anthropologist. the witch doctor was just the psychiatrist of its time and cultural level. otherwise it's like hating cavemen because they had no computers.

>>2589242
Quoted wrong post?

>>2589240
Philosophy majors think that objective facts are arguable and subjective. I've met one too many philosophy majors who think the laws of physics can be broken if they think deep enough.

>>2589252
Because you have supplied no reasoning, your argument seems to be invalid. Please try harder next time sir.

Computer science.
Because of the vast majority of people who study it are total asshats.
Oh, and I'm a computer science major.

Inb4 women studies.

>>2589237
If one person gets them wrong, it's the person's fault. If everyone get's it wrong, maybe the explaining is not being done well.

I think of this as an opportunity to not only have a laugh but to clear things up.
I'm majoring in psychology (inb4shitstorm) and I hear a lot of herp derping about the pseudo-scientific part of it, but I honestly don't know how many people understand the hard part of it and what it could achieve, and would gladly educate/debate these people.

Also, I always had the impression that anthropology was a freak experiment between pseudo-scientific psychology bullshit with historians, and that sociology was simply an aborted attempt at a science when psychology was pretty much Freud and cocks. To this day I have not met one person from these fields who could argue against my thesis.

>>2589264
It's a joke of a field.
The only people interested in it are teens who haven't found their place in the world yet and total shit talking slackers who're unable to do anything useful with their lives.
There, happy?

Contemporary Philosophy is utterly pointless without the knowledge of Physics. Philosophy is a dying area of study and other than giving some people bragging rights about having such a "deep" mind, it's an utterly pointless area of study. Some Philosophy can raise important questions about life but...that's about it.

>>2589262
Alright, well how do you know that they can't be broken. I believe the laws are based on observations, but you can't say that a pencil will fall when you drop it. You might be justified in saying that it will fall, but you don't know if that time will be the exception sir. The laws aren't absolute either, they are merely held as true until proven otherwise.

I believe that objectivity and subjectivity both serve a purpose, but you can't use one to explain the other :3

>>2589261
Except she meant that we should respect the witch doctors of TODAY, as if going to them or to the hospital regarding a broken limb was something you would have to think over.

And the cultural evolution thing was about how supposedly there aren't bad habits in a culture that could lead to their extinction, like chopping down all trees in the fucking island to raise statues like it was done in Pascoa. She argued that there is no cultural selection and thus the people from pascoa probably vanished out of pure magic and unicorns.

>>2589280

Or maybe the fact that it hasn't provided any utility to any society ever. It's just a nice thing to think about.

>>2589311
That too.

>>2589280
>The only people interested in it are teens
Im almost positive that you don't go to college and are in high school.

Lets put it this way: If anthropology wasn't important, then they wouldn't be around. There are plenty of job opportunities out there and it has practical applications.

Economics.
All this fucking shit and those guys can barely agree on basic things like printing money and speculation. An with all their expertise, it doesn't seem to make any difference. Like, at all.

>>2589280
lol you sound like an uneducated individual. Please sir, remember that school is very important. =D

Philosophy was the first school of thought. Literally, it is thanks to philosophy that we have Mathematics, Geometry, Physics, Psychology, etc. All of these subjects were derived from Philosophy. I'm sure Socrates, Galilleo, and Aristotle were all "shit talking slackers".

Get your fucking facts straight next time dumbass.

>>2589206

She is partially right. she is applying 20th century philosophy to cultural studies. The shaman is applying his own cultural logic to what he does. Not all of allopatric medicine (especially psych...DSM hello) is the result of pure evidence based medicine.

>>2589311
Please see >>2589311


As you can see, it has provided a lot to our society >.>

>>2589316

As you grow older, you stop giving a fuck about philosophical thought. You just want to live your life in some degree of certainty about the world around you.

>>2589324
Theology isn't important, but it's around. So is Lady Gaga, womans studies, SUV's and aromatherapy.
Just because it exists doesn't mean it has a point. Just look at abstract art for one.

Biology

Unlike fields like Physics which have made massive advances in the past hundred years, Biology is still basically a 19th century discipline. Get with it guys.

>>2589338

This.

I can imagine living life with a constant philosophical mentality becomes incredibly depressing. It's fascinating at first but then just...well, "get over it" and just live life.

>>2589338
Do you have any facts to back up your argument or are you going to continue making baseless claims?

>>2589327

He thinks that philosophy is the key factor to all scientific endeavor.

inb4 it is

>>2589327
Scientists didn't exist back then. They were the closest thing the world had to scientists.
Modern philosophers are useless in every way. No longer do they study any kind of science or be productive, they just asstalk all day.

Also, philosophy can hardly be counted as education. It's about as educational as watching television or watching paint dry, so you're hardly in a position to talk of such things

>>2589350

No, I'm not interested in proving anything to you in that degree. You will learn as you grow older. Not trying to sound condescending.

>>2589316
Wrong. Straight distinction/high-distinction university student here.

Developmental Psychology is for people that are too afraid to hit their kids, those fucking idiots.

>ITT: Ignorant assholes.

Math Major here, I respect all fields.

>>2589343
>Crack the FUCKING GENOME
>19th century
Troll harder.

>>2589346
Not that I support philosophy, but your argument was pretty dumb.
Most people can get around without knowing shit about chemistry, calculus, physics or pretty much anything, but they are still important.

A better argument would be that philosophy is left with posing questions that are either trivial or wrong, as in "everything could be an illusion". We all know perceptions differ, but we all know how the sensorial system works, and we are pretty sure we see about the same thing, and if everything is an illusion, then it is the reality.

Heidegger was king at this. He managed to conclude that being is nothing, and still wrote 500 pages of uncomprehensible garble.

>>2589361
At what age did Plato give up Philosophy?

>>2589369
Then I have a problem with you just as I have a problem with anthropology telling me that "everyone is right in their own way".
This is not fucking kindergarden where everyone won the coloring game.

>>2589374
And what century was he born in?
It's a well known fact that the human race becomes more intelligent with every generation (regardless of what angsty teens will have you believe).

>>2589372

He never did.

>>2589370

Evolution is basically just Enlightenment-era Progressivism jammed into science.

Biology hasn't had anything like quantum mechanics happen to it yet. It's a shame. It might come sooner if they'd get rid of their outdated notions.

>>2589386
you are either a troll or so ridiculously ignorant you cannot possibly be in college

>>2589369
biotech here, I like you. I like your field, too. Math amazes me and is truly wizard-tier.

one of my engineering professors made the argument that engineering is really just an extension of philosophy (or maybe it was that they are analogous)

it was an interesting argument and certainly made me think

>>2589400
My anus is an extension of philosophy

>>2589400

Then your professor is fucking retarded. You don't need to argue that any school of thought is a from of philosophy, THEY ALL ARE.

>>2589407
THIS

>>2589382
You're right, it's not. It's a degree. And everyone can get one.

But you have to understand that people have diverse interests and not everyone fits into your close-minded, limited world. I'm not saying everyone is "right" or "wrong" for choosing their major, they simply chose it because it makes them happy -- and does it really matter if having a degree in a Liberal Arts field makes somebody else happy? No, it doesn't.

You need to grow up, son. Don't let other people bother you so much.

>>2589407
And who created philosophy? God.

>>2589236

How did your neurosurgeon turn into a psychiatrist? That suddenly makes your professor's claim valid.

>>2589384
That may be true, but i was merely giving you an example of a Philosopher well past adolescence. There are plenty of Philosophers to this very day that aren't "teens" as well.

>>2589419
My point is that compared to a modern day person he is crippled mentally, and whereas a modern day person will grow out of such foolishness (due to greater intelligence), he did not.

>>2589407

You're arguing that position right now.

theology = philosophy by a different name
: 3

>>2589428

True

>>2589414
lol Philosophy stands for "The love of Wisdom". All it really is is deep thought. As far as I know, it dates back to ancient Greece with Socrates. However, it is a natural reaction in humans. When one begins to question what he is, how things came to be, what makes something right or wrong, he has stumbled upon philosophy. This is a natural reaction resulting from the concious mind. As such, it has no recorded creator.

>>2589206
Paranormal Technology

There looks to be an exploration of these productions of nonsense at an upcoming professional conference I am attending.
It's absurd that such silliness is peddled at a meeting of necessarily rational thinking technology professionals.

>>2589423
I was addressing your "the only people interested in it are teens" claim, which is clearly wrong.

>>2589423
You do realize that philosophy is not intelligence, but wisdom.

Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

It is through rational thought and reason that we obtain wisdom. Philosophy has instilled wisdom in the minds of many, and it still does. People these days focus on physical intelligence and never even begin to question things.

>>2589456

>>2589434
Fuck yea anon! That is so fucking stupid!

>>2589461
1. That is knowledge.
2. Intellect is the capacity to learn things and maintain skills.

We can at least all agree that sociology is retarded, right?

>>2589372
You don't understand Heidegger.

>>2589461
I think you strike at the core of the anti-philosophy camp on this board.
They don't like it, it makes them question what they know not just parrot the statements.
It tells them that they cannot know anything for sure and it requires time spent in thought considering their opinions which they do not wish to part with.

Unfortunately for the naysayer Philosophy is here to stay, it was indeed the first field of interest and has had a part in defining all subsequent fields of study.

>>2589461
It is for that reason that I say that people are not crippled because they tend to think on things, instead of focusing on objective things. There is so much more to the world then can be explained merely by physics, chemistry, biology, etc. Of course, if you believe in physicalism, then I must ask you to reconsider viewing with such a terrible view :3

>>2589384

Well known fact, eh? Are you referring to that one psychological paper that estimated Aristotle's IQ as -200?

Yeah, I'm somehow unconvinced.

>>2589471
Something wrong?

So, a thread bitching about interactions with individuals? Because so far the root cause for "no respect" has been a single person in someone's experience.

>>2589206
>>2589251
>>2589267
>>2589280

This is shameful. Someone has a chance occurrence where they misinterpret an idea because of either bad execution on the part of the instructor or pre-existing bias from /sci/ and it turns into full-blown irrationalization of entire fields of study.

Maths major.

Physics. I have never met human beings as conceited as physicists. Worse, they try to pretend we're one and the same, you know? We both use numbers and shit, except theirs have practical applications?

No, fuck you. No matter how many blog posts you make about it you will not turn Mathematics into an empirical science. Your undying belief that is could potentially explain your utter inability to obtain original results when faced with an infinite searchspace.

ITT: People confuse philosophy with metaphysics and can't seem to grasp that for every existing science there was a first the recognition of its need, which falls entirely within the realm of philosophy.

Mother of all sciences is not just a cute name or a statement about it's chronological order. Philosophy, while unapplicable directly, is what births all sciences. To understand this you need only look into say, Newton's Laws, or Darwin's On the Origin of Species to realize they were first of all exercises in observation and reason, before the appliance of the scientific method and mathematics.

itt: mad, so so mad

especially this virgin >>2589516

>>2589487
That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know it was a "camp" on this board. I'll keep that in mind next time before arguing lol.

>>2589481
Are you saying that I use "knowledge" instead of wisdom? How do we get knowledge? Why, through experience of course. Wisdom is the proper application of knowledge. This is obtained through thinking, i.e. philosophy. It is not obtained by memorizing formulas and values.

Economics

its the bastardization of psychology applied to an imaginary construct (capitalism, monetary system)

>>2589384
>It's a well known fact that the human race becomes more intelligent with every generation (regardless of what angsty teens will have you believe).

No, not at all. We've taken many steps back in our history. The greek dark ages, the fall of rome, medieval dark ages, sacking of the library of alexandria, sacking of baghdad, all these events have set back human intelligence and intellectual discourse either by repressing it or destroying the recordings that preserve said discourse.

And that just scratches the surface. Human intellect has always been in a state of flux. It's more accurate to say that human intelligence trends on the rise.

I don't have a lack of respect for people who study Math, but I think the Math I did in high school was pretty useless. Unless its being applied to something in real life or something like that, it seemed really tautological to me. Finding a solution that's already logically contained in the equation or proving something that's already true is kind of retarded. I didn't take Calculus or anything but I hated the rest of that shit.

If Billy Joel is considered a Philosopher, then Philosophy.

>>2589206
I was gonna say engineering, but then I remembered that engineers don't do research.

>>2589343
Well i'm sorry half the fucking population believes evolution is "just a theory"

>>2589548
lmao that was actually good. XD

while I don't have a problem with philosophy as a field, I have no respect for 98% of philosophy majors. The most self-important group of tools that I've ever had the displeasure of meeting.

Anyways, back on topic. I cannot respect chiropracty. Not that I don't think it is necessary at least in moderation, but it always has shitty theories about vaccines and water fluoridation etc. I don't have a problem going to a chiropractor when I have a stiff back, but don't act like you can fix cancer by realigning my spine.

>>2589541
>The greek dark ages, the fall of rome, medieval dark ages, sacking of the library of alexandria, sacking of baghdad

Oh boy, I do love judging humanity's progress on European history alone.

>>2589541
>ignores the golden age of islam where algebra, chemistry and modern medicine all had their start

>>2589572

>Because those ideas couldn't possibly have come about without Islam

>>2589572
>Confusing Islam with the middle east and probably more specifically with the Arabian region.

>>2589565

>>implying baghdad is a european country

>>2589555
>>2589548
I'm not sure what was more hilarious the samefag or the samefag

Philosophy major here. I understand the haters. I'm not into philosophy because I want undermine the "objectivity" of science, I study it because I find it interesting. It is very fulfilling to read all of these great thinkers and compare how they see the world to my own ideas. Whether or not philosophy has utility is debatable but I'm planning on becoming a professor so it's not really a big deal. Almost everyone does philosophy though in their everyday life whether its pondering huge metaphysical questions or just considering whether or not what they're doing is ethical.

But that aside, I really don't care for people who study Kinesiology. Everyone on my campus calls them "gym majors" because thats what most of them will end up as---gym teachers. The sad thing is that they have to take a certain amount of biology classes and they're so easy to spot in them because they can't do math for shit and they're usually pretty stupid in general. Most of them want to be sports trainers but I'm sure they'll all be putting up volleyball nets for the rest of their lives.

>>2589590
lmao not samefag. I liked the joke. Way to be on top of it though! Keep up the shitty work!

>>2589597
>>2589590
>>2589555
>>2589548
Sure is samefag here

>>2589603
Sure is assanine samefag calling in here. derp :3

>>2589609
Sure is bad spelling in here.

>>2589597
>mfw you mad because your samefag was noticed.

Biological anthropologist here.
I think we should be separated from cultural anthropologists.
They give us a bad name.

>>2589613
>>2589615

I lol'd

*Please note, more samefagging.

>>2589565
>implying that the library of alexandria and baghdad are located in Europe.

Biology.

"Scientists" who use an elementary understanding of basic science to manipulative evidence to fit their conclusions, and then use a high-school level understanding of statistics to back up their own biased claims.

Haters gonna hate,

You're all a bunch of stuck-up faggots.

The End.

>>2589658
Trolololol

I've been wondering, what the difference between anthropology and sociology?

Which one is better?

>>2589676
one is a waste of the time the other is a.....um wait

>>2589658

Seconded

>>2589456
>intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit.

You're a fucking dumb fuck, intelligence and knowledge are two completely different things.

>>2589700

Samefag.

>>2589706
>mfw this guy points out one post and claims samefag

>>2589715
samefag

>>2589658

Medical Anthropologist here. I think they are closer than you realize. You should look into the science studies and phil of sci literature some more...

>>2589718
samefag as what bro? Your post seems to be missing a bit.

>>2589724
just fuckin with ya.

it's ironic or something.

>>2589658

You mean MDs right. I am serious you just described the quintessential New England Journal of Medicine article.

Judging by the lack of understanding of historical context that permeates /sci/ I'm going to have to say /sci/'s least respected field is History.

>>2589676

Anthro is much much better. It actually studies interesting things like wildly different cultures, archaeology, human evolution, and linguistics. Sociology studies social trends (largely) within modern western cultures and uses very boring quantitative methodology (SPSS erg) to back up bullshit premises (poorly). Anthropology can be a real science in physical anth, linguistics, and archaeology. It can even come close to it in cultural (ie cultural ecology...its counting calorie intake and expenditure either through reconstructing diet based on paleoethnobotony and counting the man hours necessary to build the works discovered at a site or direct observation of a culture in order to better understand them).

Overall Anth is an adventure into the human condition both past and present. Soc is giving surveys to the urban poor.

>>2589541
>Implying the Greek Dark Ages had any bearing on Western Civ

I mean come-on, they aren't even Indo-European at that point...

I have to agree with those who say biology.

Time and time again biologists make scientists look bad. Whenever an ethical breach occurs, you can bet a biologist is behind it. Just look at that Marc Hauser debacle from earlier this year. And don't get me started on the likes of Dawkin.

>Fields of research you simply have no respect for and why.

I'm not a big fan of the whole animal torture thing. How can biologists sleep at night?

>>2589757

>a few biologist do some shit
>all biologist are scum

Stay classy.

Biologists hurt animals to save lives.
Completely unethical.

>>2589763

Think of all the poor animals Boyle killed with his air pump doing physics.

I'm not an Antro, but OP is totally misrepresenting the "shaman vs. surgeon" argument.

Anthros say that a person in the shamans tribe should treat the shaman with the same respect a person in our society would treat a surgeon.

Not that someone in our society should treat a surgeon and shaman equally.

btw, biochemist here, and anthros are just as bad as biologists

>>2589786

>implying some cultural anthropologists are not radical post-modernists

I'm an Anthropologist and yes some people really do think that. I honestly have no idea how they have a job. All they do is talk to each other in the journals who no-one else reads and bring in obnoxious grad students. That said not all of Cultural Anthropology is that way. Some people do really amazing work, especially Cultural Materialists and Cultural Economists.

>>2589810

true, but isn't it a little silly to judge a discipline by the most absurd members, especially when sane arguments are advanced by other members of said discipline?

this OP is just as wrong as saying "doctors believe in homeopathy. doctors are tards, derp" some doctors do it, fuck those idiots.

he could at least mention the actual society destroying research that anthros do, not a bullshit non-argument

>>2589829

are you saying post modernism is a society destroying legitimate anthropological research or are you saying that anthros conducting research destroys indigenous cultures? If you are saying the later you have confused anthropologists with missionary. Its true that Chagnon gave machetes (an incredibly useful tool in the amazon) for information to the Yanomami...the missionaries gave our shotguns for conversion to Christianity.

Women's studies. It is a "science" where opinion and bias comes before observation and conclusion based on results of using the scientific method.

In my opinion, perhaps 90% of the funding of the social sciences departments could be simply cut off. This money would make better use in th departments of natural science and in education programmes that are directed toward real job.

>>2589919

>its not a science its a humanity. Also liberal arts are valid majors for people who are interested in those courses of study. Its as directed towards a real job as much as most business and science degrees are. Do you think every person who graduates with a biology or chem degree is going to be a lab tech or go into grad school. Of course they are not. They are going to use their degree to get some sort of business, service, or sales job that only has the requirement of obtaining a bachelors.

>>2589919

no dude you're wrong. that funding allows the universities to pretend women are scientists, without having to let them shit up the real sciences.

money well spent

>>2589267
Half the computer science majors at my school are doing it so they can program fucking video games after school.

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU-

>>2589941
CompSci majors are horribly horribly naive about what the Techsector is like. The BLS has *finally* put in a notice on their Computer Engineers page that outsourcing *may* effect job trends. Tech's been a total disaster since 2003...

>inb4 bitter CSfag
INDEED I AM

>>2589938

mfw when win nobel prizes

>>2589934
English is not my mother tongue and it seems that my point was not made very clear. I think natural sciences should remain as they are because their research is needed moreso than that in humanities.

So I figure that institutes of higher learning would consist of natural sciences departments, much smaller humanities departments and institutes dedicated to education proffessionals such as engineers, technicians, programmers and the such.

Of course private institutions that are not dependant on government funding can teach and research wheter the fuck they want, but in my country basicly all institutes of higher learning are owned and operated by the state.

>>2589956

its all part of the illusion

greenpeace

As someone studying to become a mathematician, I look down on all of you.

"I do not believe in the empirical science. I only believe in priori truth." - Kurt Goedel

>>2589964

>implying the interest of the state is in research instead of turning out drones for menial jobs

>>2589969
If that's a legitimate not-"out of context" quote, I just lost a lot of respect for him.

>mfw i respect every research field and find them quite interesting without judging them for one time encounters with dumb researchers in the field or ill made stereotypes

>>2589971
There's no point in me saying how it should be in the world of higher learning if it is not assumed that it would be a part of how the world should be in general.

>>2589386
WHAT THE FUCK AM I READING?

>>2589973

should be right up your ally you inconsistent twat. he is talking about your beloved objective mathematical truths

>>2589977

But what do you do with all the people? A state need drones.

>>2589982
I'm sorry you find it so hard that I both
1- reject, or at least strongly dislike talking about objectively true math
2- think there is a good case that any alien, which arose as a result of Darwinian evolution, which is sufficiently technologically advanced, will likely have mathematical concepts functionally equivalent to, dare I say isomorphic to, Natural Numbers and the Pythagorean Theorem.

>>2589982

"scientist" is a christ fag trip

it has been detected

he plays well, but his idiocy is clear

good game, trip fag, can't wait to see what the next one is. godel, maybe?

>>2589994
I really have no clue what you're talking about. I'm a standard Dawkins-esque atheist.

>>2589989

>thinks evolution (and its by product in us, human cognition) would occur everywhere the same way as it did on earth because of the laws of physics or some such nonsense.

>>2589987
What do you mean with 'drones'? A state needs a handful of administrators for it to function, maybe half statesmen and half economists. Production and value creation is best done with people that either have an education that is directed toward the industry, engineers being a cood example. There is a shit ton of jobs out there that in todays world would require a bachelors degree but in reality could just as well be performed by someone coming straight out of high school.

I'm not sure of how the situation is in america, but in recent years there has been a large upswing for an education form that is sort of in between university and high school. The programmes are often about 1 or 2 years long and are developed together with the industry and on the request of the industry. 90% of graduates have a job relevant to their education on the same day of their graduation.

>>2590004
Correct.

Or at least there will be (very likely) some similarities, enough that we can discuss addition of whole numbers.

Economics, honestly I've never met anyone who even pretends that they want to contribute something to society through studying economics. I'll admit that I haven't done any research into how macroeconics and financial markets work but the only impression I get is that it's little more than gmabling for personal gain on a massive scale (usually with other people's money).

>>2590017
In my country economics majors basicly are devided in two groups - business and national economics majors. Guess which groups deserve to be taken more seriously.

>>2590009

We have vocational school in the US as well. We also have a gigantic population and prestigious universities are very well marketed so every one wants to go and the universities are thrilled to take as many as they can (and charge as much as they like). Harvard has elementary education as one of its majors. Every R1 university has non research and non science programs because universities function as non-profit corporations. Tuition from non research programs helps to pay salaries and maintain facilities. Research is done with endowments and grants anyway (even arts and humanities research...do you think history writes itself). They are not taking money from a big pot full of money and passing it around to all the various departments.

>>2590033
Lucky you I guess. I get to see my tax money pay for Swedish universities educating 10 times humanities majors than will ever be needed in the job market or in research.

>>2589206
I've never heard a doctor of anthropology suggest anything of that sort. I did know one crackpot community college instructor who had a master's in cultural anthro and believed that her pudgy, washed up white ass was in direct communication with jaguar spirits and other such nonsense, but that was it.

>>2590012

Ok Mr. Empiricism you have a hypothesis now give it some support. Just how are you going to show that its very likely to converge on those concepts without there being objective mathematical truths.

Analytical philosophy did a good job of refuting objectively true mathematical concepts as many others have tried to show you.

I posit that you can not show this without necessitating objectively mathematical truths

>>2590050
>without there being objective mathematical truths.
I do not like to confirm nor deny objective math truths, but I do like to talk about the evidence for the objective physics truths. And as the mind is just a physical process, one can use science to accomplish that. Math need not apply.

Just to be clear, I think properly done research is always positive and worthwhile, whether it's in a field I respect or not. Having said that, I have absolutely zero respect for people like Rupert Sheldrake or Dean Radin, and their "paranormal" research.

>>2590037

The US graduates more liberal arts majors than anything else too. They just enter the job market like everyone else. They also cause credential inflation for jobs. A lot of them are doing work that only an associates degree is needed for. But who wants to hire someone with an associates when you can get someone with a bachelors. ironically some associates programs like radiology tech have guaranteed jobs and make more than bachelors humanities recipients from Princeton of Harvard. Overall the system is kind of fucked here too. It always has been. It always will be.

>>2590076
I think a big part of the inflation of degrees, or academization of the "low level" job market here in Sweden has to do with the government being and having been very eager to send high school grads directly into the university in order to "hide" unemployment. There has also been an ambition from the governemt's side to make the people more educated, not minding at all if what they learn is actually useful or not.

>>2590080

I disagree with you about the usefulness aspect. Different things are useful to different people.

Experimental particle physics. It's expensive and useless bullshit (maybe even dangerous if you believe the strangelet folks) drawn from bogus statistical arguments using overcomplicated machinery they don't really understand. And then since these people acquire no useful skills but bullshitting while they were going through grad school on the taxpayers' dime, they wind up going into finance and screwing people over with their bullshit Monte Carlo models, and shitting all over the economy. Fuck you.

>>2590050
Can you explain what you mean by objective mathematical truths?
Given a set of axioms, an infinity of theorems will usually be 'true' within those axioms.
Logical axioms arise fairly easily when one tries to reason about anything at all, they're also isomorphic to a lot of other axioms, so they're pretty easy to bump into, rather "fundamental" I'd say. And if you have logic, it's quite natural to use it to define arithmetic. The rest of math is more complicated, but I'd imagine at least logic and arithmetic would be "universal" enough. I can give you a paper that discusses this in more detail if you wish. I'd also like to see some papers/books that deconstruct the universality of certain base axioms (or equivalents).

>>2589236
It sounds like either you might have misinterpreted what she was saying, or she had incorrectly understood something that other anthropologists had put forward.

>>2590103
>Implying quantum mechanics is worthless
>Just went full retard

>Giving credence to stranglet people
>Slightly more plausible

>>2590103
I laughed, but I sense some jelly in that statement. (Disclaimer: I'm not an experimental particle physicist.)

>>2590096
Yes, but I don't want my taxmoney to fund studies that basicly are just for the benefit of the individual taking the class. Lots of humanities majors end up doing jobs they could get without ever having to go to college, thus their education being of no benefit other than to themselves.

In conclusion, the vast majority of humanities majors in Sweden should just read related books on their free time instead of wasting my and others money dicking around for three years.

>>2590115

your taxmoney benefits you too. if those humanities majors were totally uneducated, you think you would be better off?

you can't force everyone to do science and math....deal with it

>>2590115
Do you really think QM-related research has no benefits? I suggest you take a look at the semiconductor industry at least. As we scale down, the more quantum effects will have importance.

Political science. Politics will never progress because it's a game where no one can be right but everyone aims to be. It's like kids arguing over who's fart smells best.

>>2590122
Seeing as how they have the same job with their education as they could have without it, they have spent three years of their lives and my taxmoney studying something just for fun. I don't mind them studying stupid shit they'll never use, I just don't want to be forced to pay for it.

I'm not saying anyone should be forced into the natural science, I'm saying that not everyone want to or should be academics. And academic has little worth in itself if it is not used. I'm also not saying that humanities should not exist, it should just be much smaller concerning number of students than it is today because if there is a total need for 10 anthropologists per year, there is not point in educating a 100 if 90 of them just end up at McDonalds anyway.

>>2590150

your making a ton of assumptions.

first, if those people went out into the real world right after high school, many more of them would become criminals of one sort or another , and never get the jobs you are talking about.

let alone how the literacy and reading skills effect the overall democracy? get real and look at the US. regardless of what job they have when they get done, university makes them better people.

that money is FAR more cost effective than policing the extra criminals and propagandizing the extra idiots

>>2590150

I posit that your high standard of living in Sweden is a direct result of having an educated electorate. There are many benefits to a liberal arts education aside from vocational training.

Cryptozoology (sp?)
>I hate them, and their useless quest for nonexistent animals

Parapsychology
>I hate them, and their useless quest for nonexistent phenomena

honestly:
SOME Quantum Physicists
Some of that shit just seems useless, I mean, who gives a fuck how many dimensions of space there are (bio major here). I can kind of see how its interesting to create a better definition of the forces which act on our universe, but have you seen string theory?

>>2590171

you are fighting the good fight here but your points are all bullshit. you really need to back those up.

>>2590175
> Some of that shit just seems useless, I mean, who gives a fuck how many dimensions of space there are (bio major here). I can kind of see how its interesting to create a better definition of the forces which act on our universe, but have you seen string theory?

Have you seen /any/ of quantum theory? None of that shit makes sense bro. As long as their investigations lead to new correct predictions, I'm all on board.

>>2590175
So what you're saying is that you want to be able to describe the forces acting on a particle without specifying how many dimensions the space the particle is moving in has? Yeah, makes perfect sense.

>>2590181
Enjoy your epicycles.

>>2590185
A theory of epicycles is vastly superior to no theory at all. Let's at least get something which is right, and then we can improve on it.

>>2590179

euro-tards are always crying about how if they could just be a little more nazi their countries would be a better place. news flash! no they wouldn't.

>>2590182
no, what I am saying is that while I respect the goal, what reaches my eyes and ears is some of the ugliest, and seemingly baseless science Ive seen in my entire life. What use is a theory of the universe if you have to assume SEVERAL unseen forces? You can create a model that allows for one variable and then test it, but when you have multiple variables there is no good way to see which one could be the culprit for specific phenomena. Make sense now assmite?

math. it's just numbers and stuff. there is no feeling or emotion. humans are emotional creatures, leave the math to the computers.

>>2590202
No. You're obviously just a retard, and any further opinions of your are null and void.

Please come back after taking your head out of your ass, and learning a thing or two about science.

>>2590202
So what you're saying is that string theory, due to its lack of arbitrary constants, is a promising candidate for a new theory of physics?

>>2590210
As far as I was aware (which isnt very far mind you, shit isnt my field) string theory was based on a boatload of assumptions about various things. So yeah, I really dont know exactly what Im talking about, but my point is that for all intents and purposes I see a fuckton of money going into the field of particle physics and whatnot, and yet not a single USEFULL thing has come out. I have a basic understanding of the kind of things the field COULD discover/come up with, but it HASNT.

at least not that Ive seen or heard of.

>>2590209
Instead of taking this as an opportunity to call me names, try to actually prove me wrong. If you really give half a damn about the scientific process as you act like you do, then you should expect that I keep an open mind about this. And I do. Educate me, and maybe you'll have made a believer out of me.

science is an ideology, even at best it's dominated by market forces. Proof can't prove itself.

>>2590223
Any theory starts with a bunch of assumptions. You find out if it's right or not by testing it. String theory hasn't been tested, but that's because the theorists haven't figured out what the testable consequences are. It's a hard problem, but they're working on it.

>>2590225

> Proof can't prove itself
> Circular logic doesn't work

No shit, Sherlocke

>>2590223
>What use is a theory of the universe if you have to assume SEVERAL unseen forces? You can create a model that allows for one variable and then test it, but when you have multiple variables there is no good way to see which one could be the culprit for specific phenomena.
Nope. There's just nothing to talk about with someone with such a fundamental misunderstanding of science, besides to go back to high school and perhaps pay attention in basic physics class, and such.

>>2590174
Sweden's high standard is a result of the good days during the 50's throughout to the 70's that were dominated by quality industries that created real value. High standard of living is created by skills that are needed to provide services and products that are needed in society. I'd rather have 5 CNC operators than 500 women studies majors.

>>2590235
Look man, I just dont do physics. I have honestly perused EVERY subject to my satisfaction except physics. Its mainly fuckers like "Ococku" or however you spell his name that keep me from getting into it. I digg micro-bio because I can understand its applications. By extension, I cant see particle physics's applications, so I dont hold it in high regard. Im not saying "durr, its useless" but I have some trouble justifying it to my non-science field friends. I get that there is a legitimate need to understand this stuff, I just cant come up with an argument in defense of the field as a whole.

>>2590264
>By extension, I cant see particle physics's applications, so I dont hold it in high regard.
Simple example you nit. Modern microprocessors.

>What use is a theory of the universe if you have to assume SEVERAL unseen forces? You can create a model that allows for one variable and then test it, but when you have multiple variables there is no good way to see which one could be the culprit for specific phenomena.
It's again simple - imagine a system with gravity and electromagnetism. Change one variable at a time to do your tests. Do a test. Induce a charge then do a test. Add more neutrally charged matter and do a test. What's so hard about this concept?

>>2590264
Nobody knows what the use will be until something is actually discovered. If we discover a brand new force, that would have different applications than magnetic monopoles or figuring out what dark matter is made of or other stuff we might find. The immediate goal isn't technological applications, though; it's curiosity about how things work. It's the same reason we explore other planets.

>>2589557

I don't see any contribtuion from modern phliosophy. Maybe philosophy gave birth to modern science, but by the end of the 18th century, they haven't done anything of note.

They are argueing 90% minutia. As an example, consider the argument of whether reality is real. We all see and feel the same environment, so there's no actual difference between LOL we're in the matrix, and reality being real. No one could tell the difference.

A strong second to the string theorists because they can't even propose a test for their theory.

>>2590270
Alright, hadn't thought of microprocessor example, but Im talking more about the "theoretical" side of things. Thats where my (and I think most people's) understanding starts to break down

Ive seen quantum mechanical theories which assume MULTIPLE simultaneous culprits for a single phenomena. If you cant distinguish between them, it seems like the current trend in quantum mechanics is just to assume them to be in the most conducive proportions for your theory. Again, just the way it seems from the outside.

Also, I know how to test a single variable, Im not a fucking idiot. My point was that they seem to have more than one, which just goes back to my last block of text.

Either way, got to go get some work done, but Ill leave the thread up and F5 it if someone wants to enlighten me further.

Cock is so delicious, I just want to suck some now.

>>2590284
Using someone else's unsecured name, delicious too. Do you feel better now?

>>2590283
> Ive seen quantum mechanical theories which assume MULTIPLE simultaneous culprits for a single phenomena.
Maybe it would help if you gave a concrete example of what you're talking about.

>>2590283
Your equivocations make it sound like Quantum mechanics has no predictive power. I assure you that it does.

My point exactly, isnt that kind of a "hard sell". Like Ive been saying. I understand the POSSIBLE applications, but from an unbiased (and therefore science neutral) perspective, I cant justify putting all that time and money into something which still has not born fruit. In the past, most scientific endeavors at least had SOMETHING going for them, and the fields that didnt only really picked up ONCE THEY DID. The opposite seems to be true with quantum physics. Just an observation

I just found Jesus. I repent.

To disregard any scientific discipline even social sciences is to state outright your own ignorance and close-mindedness. Learn to read more than popular science books from your newsagents.

>>2590295
Who knew what Faraday's work would be useful for when he was doing it? If you're just looking for something you can make cool new tools with, you're getting into applied science / engineering territory.

You never know what the consequences of discovering something new will be until you learn what it is you've discovered.

>>2590293
I just have trouble seeing how you can interpret and explain multiple variables with the same effect and still claim to have understanding of their proportions and compositions. Take the whole "11 dimensional" idea for instance. You cannot honestly prove how many spatial dimensions there are, as we cannot traverse them. So, if you build a theory based on that, you can never know if its actually correct or only approximately so, as you will never be able to OBSERVE one of your variables. See: COMMON RESPONSE VARIABLE. Quantum phys gives a host of reasons for phenomena without being able to, at least to me, definitely back them up. Just because a pile of stones fit together does not make them the ruins of a structure. Just because the math WORKS, doesnt mean you have it RIGHT. And if you believe that, go talk to the fuckers who are trying to replace Pi with 27/8

>>2590306
Not closed mindedness, time constraints friend. There are only so many hours in the day.

Economics. Nuff said.

>>2590295
>In the past, most scientific endeavors at least had SOMETHING going for them,
You completely misunderstand the advancement of modern science.

Let me see if I can find that cool Neil deGrasse Tyson video.

Around 35:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ulkX-DA9BM

>>2590311
I don't claim to understand quantum physics. I only have a very small understanding. However, I think that yours is flawed.

Quantum physics is predictive - it is science.

>>2590313
Well if you can't find the time to educate yourself on a subject don't come up with only half thought out opinions as if they have any Credence

>>2590311
No one in physics is postulating dimensions things can't move in.

>Just because the math WORKS, doesnt mean you have it RIGHT.
Well, that's true. Anything we learn about the universe is at best just a model, and subject to revision as we learn more. To do that we devise new experiments to try to prove our theories wrong. We never know for sure anything's right. But that's a fundamental limitation of learning things empirically. It's not particular to physics.

>>2590327
Specifically, the bit around 36:50 - 37:45

>>2590292
I still would like a concrete example here. I mean, that objection sounded like "The block moves the way it does because of BOTH gravity and the normal force? Sounds like BULLSHIT to me!"

>>2590339
>"Why are you researching that when you should be finding a cure for my disease?" Ok, and I don't have a problem with that, but did you know that we diagnosed your disease using an MRI? And what is the physical principle behind the magnetic resonance imager? It came from a physicist, who was an expert in atomic nuclei, wondering how you would detect this in interstellar space! Do you think that physicist, when he came up with this understanding of - it's called nuclear magnetic resonance - do you think that he was saying to himself "One day we'll have machines that will diagnose the condition of the human body without cutting it open in advance."

I think that youtube videos of popular tv personalities with witty sayings are valid sources instead actual theoretical works.

HURRRR

>>2590355
I think that someone is posting under this name because they hate when I post accessible science to someone who obviously would not understand nor bother to read the academic journals.

Carl Sagan was here. He said "fuck off".

>>2589206
>Anthropology. They argue that the shaman has the same medical authority than a neurosurgeon and both views should be taken just as seriously.

WTF! NO WE DONT!!!! Retarded post-structuralists do, and some of them might be anthropologists. But I can assure you that there is no general consensus akin to what you said.

Pretty glad sociology is sparsely mentioned. Only autistic faggots think that sociology isn't important.

theoretical physicist, why try to make technology many years away realistic now when we dont have the technology to meet such demands

>>2589206
>>2589236
>Neurosurgeon = psychiatrist

wat

/Sci/ Thanks for not saying anything too mean about Psychology. I'm going to go mark psychometrics exams and prepare a presentation on interviewing young children.

CAPTCHA: oftioni continued

>>2590378

Truthfully the psych may be more of a scientist than the surgeon....the psych may be involved in clinical trials, other research, or using the scientific method to diagnose patients (for socially constructed diseases with ambiguous biological models). The surgeon on the other hand is simply a highly skilled technician.

>>2590378
Don't know about your country. But in my country, if you want to be a psychiatrist you must both be a MD and a psychologist. Thus many specialize in neurology during their medical training since that will be their main field of work.

>>2589206
Forensic Anthropology

>based on this pelvic ageing method, I estimate the victim died between 17 and 95 years old.

>>2589989

Am I to take that as an admission that you've FINALLY given up on the Reals?

>>2590391
Yeah, but the surgeon stabs you into the brain, and the psychiatrist talks to you and maybe gives you some happy pills.

>>2590392
But neurology isn't necessarily neurosurgery. Neurosurgery is a surgical specialization.

>>2590392

I have a sneaking suspicion that in your country an MD is what a Bachelors in Medicine is elsewhere.

>>2590358

You're an IT drone, to memory. I highly doubt you read those journals yourself.

>>2589206
>If you are a person of a field mentioned, explain yourself.

I'm a shaman, and I'm not happy having my art compared to modern psychology, which is a load of bullshit with happy pills.

My load of bullshit
A) utilizes psychedelics
B) looks a lot cooler, we got drum circles
C) works better than most SSRIs
D) they have Sex Shamans. 10/10

Fuck psychologists.

>>2590400
??? a MD is a doctor (you know the guy in a white coat that you go to when your tummy hurts). That equals ten semesters (five years) of full time studies. (The same length of education as a psycologist).

So a Psychiatrist has a minimum of ten years of uni. Then obviously most do specialize for another year or two.

I've just done a poststructuralist deconstruction of postindustrial hypertextual phenomena.

Can I get my psych degree now?

>>2590417

"It is a professional doctorate / first professional degree (qualifying degree) in some countries, including the United States and Canada, although training is entered after obtaining from 90 to 120 credit hours of university level work (see second entry degree) and in most cases after having obtained a Bachelors Degree. In other countries, such as the United Kingdom and India, the MD is an advanced academic research degree similar to a PhD or a higher doctorate.[1] In Britain, Ireland, and many Commonwealth nations, the qualifying medical degree is instead the Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery (MBBS, BMBS, BM BCh, BM, MB BCh BAO, or MBChB) and is considered equivalent to the M.D. degree in the U.S. system."

No, an American MD is most certainly not a Doctor.

>>2590418
Only if your deconstruction explicitly reveals the underlying incommensurability of the narratives that assign hierarchical labels in modern visavi traditional societies.

>>2590420
Ah, sorry. The language barrier. I guess that a MD would be what you refer to as a GP then?

>>2590431

GP is a job. Their degree is a Bachelors in Medicine or Surgery or what have you. An undergraduate degree, in any case.

>>2590434
Wut!?! A batchelors in surgery??? You let people operate after only four years of studies?? Wow! just blew my mind.

>>2590427
Indeed it does. A significant portion of my deconstruction was devoted to this very incommensurability, as well as the decontextualizations observed therein.

>ITT: Fields of research you simply have no respect for and why.

Almost all of them with some very few but outstandingly awesome individuals.

Why? The bias is so strong EVERYWHERE that I could immediately vomit.

>>2590418
>>2590427

lol using postmodern/post-structural cultural anthropology jargon and mislabeling it psychology

FYI both Levi-Strauss and Michele Foucault were anthropologists. We have the best of both worlds. One foot in the physical sciences and one foot in the humanities

>>2590461
thatsthejoke.jpg

>>2590465

>doesn't realize that makes it a richer field

>>2590461
The fields have some overlap, I believe.

Anthropologist here.
Ask your idiot professor which she would rather go to, because as interesting as things like witch doctors and their methods are to study, they aren't very good at medicine.

>>2590469
>still can't identify joke

>>2590449
Well then certainly Sir. I do award you an instant P.hd in "production of post-structrualist jargon that mimics real text whilst being devoid of meaning". You can design a certificate yourself, print it out and sign it on my behalf.

Am I the only one that thinks that creative arts postgraduates are a joke?

ITT: Strawmen, strawmen everywhere

>>2590484
Now I can converse with like-minded individuals under the pretense of there being intellectual depth or meaning in my words!

>>2590485
No, I do too.

>>2589206
lol you no nothing about anthropology, no field says anything that ridiculous

Transfiguration.


It's just so damned hard.

I'm a Shaman OP, you mad?

>>2590500

>has never met a post-modernist

they usually keep those sorts of ideologies out of the undergrad curriculum...when it is the all over the grad curriculum.

chiropractors
fucking quacks

>>2590518
PHD in bio anthropology here, pretty much covered the whole subject coming through uni. It doesn't at all support post modernism, only fangirls think that when they hear one of the anecdotes about an old treatment being better than current ones.

>>2590541

PhD anth student here too. I had a seminar class on biomedical anthropology full of that sort of fan girl. 5 scientists to 15 fan girls....it was very very annoying

>>2590557
really? i practically chose bio to avoid that shit and it seemed to work fairly well. The hippies dont the background studies to take it

lol you sound like an uneducated individual. Please sir, remember that school is very important. =D

Alchemy was the first school of thought. Literally, it is thanks to Alchemy that we have Chemistry, Geology, Petrol engines, Pharmacology, etc. All of these subjects were derived from Alchemy. I'm sure Newton, Galilleo, and Lao Tzu were all "shit talking slackers".

Get your fucking facts straight next time dumbass.

lol you sound like an uneducated individual. Please sir, remember that school is very important. =D

Astrology was the first school of thought. Literally, it is thanks to Astrology that we have Astronomy, Climateology, Physics, telescopes, etc. All of these subjects were derived from Astrology. I'm sure Newton, Galilleo, and Aristotle were all "shit talking slackers".

Get your fucking facts straight next time dumbass.

>>2590576
>Not mentioning Paracelsus

>>2590502
best thing in here god damn

>>2590578
>>2590576

alchemy and astrology have their roots in philosophy as well.

CTRL+F "racis"
No result

CTRL+F "storm"
1 irrelevant result ("shitstorm")

No one gets it. This thread is pathetic, /sci/ is pathetic, I have no respect for any of you.

>>2590206

>>2590225

Not you.

>>2590282

Psychology would like a word with you.

>>2590447

No. A Bachelor's in surgery is a 6 or 7 year course, as opposed to most, which are 3 year courses here.

Get your head out of your arse, Americunt.

>>2590626
In psychology, philosophy has been used as basis for psichological phenomenology. This is a field that includes whatever you want it to, from psychoanalisys to theatre therapy.
The problem is that the field is PLAGUED by parapsychology, quacks, retards and people that think that heidegger was so massively complex that he must be right, and you don't really need to understand it.

It has systematically failed to produce any result beyond placebo and error margin.

Also, it is the basis of socio-historic psychology. It it basically a circlejerk around marx and engels, complete lack of understanding of biology and evolution. Results? You guessed it, zilch.

HURR DURR LETS ALL HAVE A SPIRITED DEBATE ON WHY CERTAIN FIELDS ARE ANY GOOD AND IN THE END HAVE ACHIEVED NOTHING BECAUSE NOBODY IS GOING TO CHANGE THEIR VIEWS BECAUSE WERE ALL A BUNCH OF STUBBORN FUCKS.

>there. i said it. everyone on /sci/ is stubborn as fuck. including me

ALL OF YOU ARE BASTARD!

>>2590680
OP here.
I'm surprised that this thread went so far.
To be honest, I'm willing to give anthro another chance, the problem is that nobody in this thread even attempted to say what anthro is and does, they only dismissed my original argument with a "lol no xD"

The discussion about philosophy was nice and it is good to see that many people share my opinions on the complete absence of reason for it's existance.

I'm surprised that this did not become an all out attack on psych, and we all had a good laugh at theology.

The attacks on physics and biology were convincingly rebuked, and little was even raised against math.

A lot of people learned something here today.

>>2590576
Newton, Galileo and Lao Tzu
Guess the odd one out?
Lao Tzu, 'cause the other guys' ideas changed the world - and I haven't heard of him.

Chinatrolls, eh?

witch wiggler? wangateur? Fortune teller? Mundunugu?

This is how you know your major is useless.

If, in the first class, your professor gives a lecture on why studying that subject is important, your subject is a huge waste of time. You'll never go to a physics class and see the professor waste his time telling you why physics is important. Or a math class, or any hard science class.