/sci/ - Science & Math

I bet he gets more pussy than you

Your brother has nigger genes, you are his brother so both of you should an hero.

i kno rite

>>2573942

>implying your brother just isn't slow.

I'm a teacher and only asians kids pay attention or actually listen to what I say.

Not all teachers are bad.
I am sorry to hear that your brother got stuck wish shitty ones.
The US education system is in bad need of reform.

What more is there to say?
What's even worse is that your brother was allowed to progress from grade level to grade level without ever learning the concept of a paired coordinate system.

im willing to bet your brother is at fault, not the teacher.

Here's a theory that I'm just going to throw out there: your brother is a retard.

Teachers don't have to spark interest in students or make sure that each and every one of them understands the material. I hate herps like your brother "tarding" up the place and then blaming their own shortcomings on others.

derp

ignorance =/= stupidity

Maybe you're brother is a hidden genius, and is going to invent a whole new coordinate system that takes the math world by storm.

Introduce him to khanacademy.

My little sister gets perfect scores on all her math tests. I love helping her with homework because she barely needs help, I'm so proud of her. U jelly?

But seriously, it has nothing to do with the teachers. He's just retarded.

OP here again.

We are white and live in Canada so no we are not niggers :-) >>2573953


My brother is not slow or stupid and has excellent social skills... He's just dumb as a post when it comes to math and things involving it. >>2573958


I don't know where I'm going with this thread haha...

Just ranting because it makes me mad. It also makes me worry for his future, secondary education, future jobs, etc. and things like that.

My brother has always gotten the shittiest teachers in his school every time. When I was in school I had excellent teachers that seemed keen on ensuring all students received a good education and making sure that every student understood the concepts being presented to them. >>2573959

>>2573970
>Teachers don't have to spark interest in students or make sure that each and every one of them understands the material.

>Teachers don't have to spark interest in students

Of course they do. Given that the curriculum is involuntary, they absolutely must.

>>2573970

Actually, that's exactly what teachers have to do. That is what their job is. Otherwise teachers would just be private tutors.

But do you see why education is in such a sorry state? Do you see all of these /sci/entifically minded people making outrageous and unfounded claims? And completely move the emphasis to the other side?

The teacher and the student (and the parents) are responsible for student outcomes. If only one of those people is working at it, things aren't going to go very well.

Make him watch the SICP videos.

Beat him if he doesn't.

>Captcha: dededer both

Kids are forced to go to school, where they don't want to be, and are forced to memorize material that doesn't interest them. No wonder they know it very well.

>>2574029
People like learning and people like socializing, I don't know how the school system fucks it up.

>>2574029

Another problem.
The good ol' school-as-memorization issue.

Memorization and recall of facts are some of the lowest orders of thinking. In order for students to really be able to understand things conceptually, they're going to need a lot more help than "memorize these formulas."

>kid is retarded
>blame teacher

>>2574003

So your brother is shit at Maths, and you are blaming the teacher. Nice one.

Do you know how fucking hard it is to teach morons basic Maths. Like tell, them how to solve x+3=5, then like here solve x+4=8, then they are like durrr.

Seriously, it's like I fucking told you how to solve them you fucking moron. Yet, give this to an asian person show them how to do it once, they have do all the problems.

They don't even fucking complain. It's magical.

But, yeah your brother is a fucking moron.

>>2574017

Okay, Einstein. How you spark interested in the most hated subject that 95% fail at and hate. How the fuck do you tell some little shit that won't do it because it's too fucking hard when it's not how to do basic Maths?

Because you be sitting in your high horse. But, when you got a bunch of morons standing in front of you that can't grasp stuff you consider easy. Man.

OP here again.

I'm not directly blaming the teachers, but the do play a huge part and extremely important role in student interest in the coursework. One of my brothers current teachers is pregnant at the moment and is quite far along. She just doesn't seem to care very much right now because she'll be on leave for a while when her baby is born. She wont see the kids pass or fail at the end of the year.

Hopefully his new replacement teacher actually gives a shit about helping people.

>>2574034
people like learning USEFUL things.

I have never, in my daily life OUTSIDE of school, used math beyond multiplication/division of fractions.

Notice how kids, in general, love being on the internet/socializing with friends more than being in school?

>>2574034

Students are told that school is not socialization time. (I know I was told that a billion times, at least.)

Also, not everyone likes learning after they've been through school for a while. Because school is presented in a way that doesn't appeal to them.

That's why I want to teach middle schoolers. They're still hopeful and optimistic and into it, and I want to keep it that way.

But some of the issues are cultural. Why is there a stereotype about Asians doing better in school? And the stereotype of Asian parents who are extremely involved in their students learning? Why do you have the opposite stereotypes with African Americans?
Schooling extends beyond the student and teacher in the classroom. If learning is not valued at home, then learning will not be valued by the student in school. If learning is not valued by peers, then learning will not be valued by the student in school.

>>2574001

>>2574046
Teachers in general are terrible people. You don't realize this if you are above average or have supportive parents capable of filling the gaps but if you actually need them you soon find this out. I went from a "gifted" kid to someone who struggled to catch up after medical problems, the difference in how they treat you is amazing.

>>2574053

Well, one way to spark student interest is to make the problems and concepts relevant to real-world problems. True, some students don't want to learn. But you have to change the classroom dynamic and maybe you can even change their minds.

>>2574056

Would you mind if I asked your occupation?

>>2574068

There are plenty of bad teachers. I think we've all had some. But to demonize the entire profession is to cut off your nose to spite your face.

>>2574046
If you were to stop and talk to my brother on the street you would think he is a pretty cool guy. He's obviously no genius, but at the same time he's nowhere near retarded.

He's not like those full-retarded downs syndrome creatures walking around.

>>2574084
Tell me, is he looking to go into business school?

Serious question tough. Witch one -is- X and witch one is Y?

I always confuse the shit out of myself trying to come up with an easy rule to remember.

>>2574084

People with downs syndrome cannot help that they have a third copy of the 21st chromosome.

>>2574090

It's the same order they go in for the alphabet.

>>2574090
1/10

former maths teacher here

teachers are maybe 25 % responsible for failing to motivate students

rest is families/society/culture

azn teachers aren't all motivational geniuses, they are just teaching in a culture where kids are expected to learn shit and work.

>>2574078
I am pretty sure the system creates and attracts those sorts of people as the bad teachers by far out number the good ones. It isn't the bad apples that stand out amongst teachers, it is the competent ones who actually do their job that are rare.

>>2573992
>>2573992
Thanks for posting this! The site looks very cool and useful!

>>2574069
I'm a full time student right now, majoring in Statistics (so of course, I actually will be using what I learn).
My point is, school teaches a lot of things that are not useful (for example, art and philosophy I think should NOT be taught in schools, as they are more of a hobby than a valid career option. Art education kills what makes art great anyway (originality).

>>2574106
You must be new here.

>mfw I'm a complete imbecile when it comes to math, failing at the most basic shit involving it
>mfw I see this thread

Give your brother a pat on the back.

At least he's got a brother who tries to help him with this stuff. Shit sucks.

>>2574099

Well, when you pay someone $30K/yr starting, and after 10 years, they're only up to $35K/yr, who do you think you are going to attract? Certainly not a lot of the people who really know their content and educational pedagogy. For you see, there are much higher paying jobs available for those.

And, many teachers do not keep up with current educational research once they become certified to teach and leave their university...

>>2574114
Play Nethack, command line mode.

If you can beat it, you will have cured any dyslexia and ADHD you may have had.

If you beat it without spoilers (looking up information), you will be easily able to handle memorizing math or any science. Understanding it is another story, for that, watch SICP and play 3d games.

Derp you need to explain to him that it's just the way we do things. 1+1=2 is probably the type of logic he is used to, he cannot grasp why you can determine which is x and which is y just by looking at them. You need to explain that, unless specifically otherwise stated, the vertical line is ALWAYS y, and the horizontal line is ALWAYS x, no ifs ands or buts. Then you tell him when you see the two numbers separated by a comma in brackets, it is referring to a point on the graph. The one on the left is ALWAYS x, and the one on the right is ALWAYS y. He probably is wondering why he can't switch them around, I mean, it doesn't seem like it breaks any math laws so why can't he do it? I dunno nigga, Grade 7's are just being introduced to graphs, maybe he's dumb maybe he's not. But the main point here is telling him that it really doesn't make any sense, it's just the fucking way we do it and he better get used to it.

>>2574110
>I major in statistics, this makes me an expert in the educational system

>>2574099
i guess you went to a shit school, and assumed all teachers were the same everywhere

i've worked in maybe 7 schools in different parts of UK, and think maybe 1 in 6 teachers was substandard.

way too many, but not a majority

>>2574123
thank god i taught in UK

yeah. US education is fucked at that pay level

>>2574123
I know, after dealing with them I wouldn't have a problem paying $60k - $80K a year if that meant we could up the quality of the average teacher.

>>2574069

Buzz words everwhere. Practical real life doesn't work you idiot. They tried that shit already. The point is the student either see threw it or misapply it.

Also, explain how I would say link times table to real life fun way. Like some idiots haven't learn it. So it's like how you explain whats 5x+2=4, solve for x to someone who doesn't know timetable. Link it to fucking facebook.

Also, change classroom dymanics, what the fuck that mean. Most of student are silent. They are just dumb as fuck.

Again, what's solution mean like give an example. As all I see is stupid bbuzzwords.

>>2574093
>>2574093

Thanks, why in the world didn't I realise this before?

>>2574132

You also have to consider where teachers with experience go. Teachers with experience go to better schools and teach honors classes where students are more independent.
Where are the new teachers placed? In the schools where they can find a job. Which are schools with high turn over rates. And why have the teachers left? Because the job there is too stressful for the meager pay because the community at large holds very negative views of schooling. Where do these views come from? People who had bad experiences in school as students. Rinse. Repeat.

>>2574111
I am, and I've never seen the site before.

>>2574125
>mfw just looking at the index on the main page

Good god

>>2573980
lol

>>2574168
It's a great game

It just involves fucktons of learning and patience.

I use spoilers, but I'm already kind of smart, I just enjoy trying to do as well as possible.

It might be a better idea to start off with 32x32 pixel, graphical tiles (an add-on) if you have a 1920x1080 screen. Use the standard 16x16 tiles if you don't, or use the 10x18 or something font size.

Anyone could learn if they just gave a fuck. My sister tells me stories about her math classes all the time. It's all "we were listening to music and crying to sad songs" and "we were talking about all kinds of crap when bla bla". WHAT THE HELL! It's fucking class time. I never even imagined doing anything else than listening and commenting on the lesson to my friend next to me (quietly).

And it shows when I try to teach her. She starts talking in between examples every time. I was like HOLY SHIT ARE YOU RETARDED? You can't cure ignorance. Sure, it has a lot to do with teachers as well.. But really, don't blame it all on them. I had pretty much the same teachers and went through most lessons by listening and learning.

Can you blame the kids either, though? Some people are motivated by socializing, sitting and listening or doing exercises can be painful for them. Even I get bored during some lessons. If it's like that for a total introvert, what is it like for the extroverts? Perhaps we need different kinds of classes for different kinds of people.

Just rambling.. Also, I'm a Finn so it's obviously written in a Finnish context.

>>2574187
I'm going to start including electricity if someone wants to learn from me : 3

>>2574125
Holy fuck. This. So much.

Though I loathe the sokoban levels. And the wand of digging is always empty when you get swallowed.

>>2574151

I am going to assume English isn't your first language so that my head doesn't explode.

1) Giving students authentic problems DO work. A lot of schools are switching to project-based instructional methods. For more information about that, look here:
http://www.bie.org/about/what_is_pbl/

2) If students have not learned the building blocks required, or if students have misconceptions, you need to know exactly what gaps they have and fill in those gaps. You need to take their misconceptions and specifically address them. So you say they don't know their multiplication tables while trying to solve beginning problems in algebra 1? And how do you make learning multiplication tables practical?
You make it a word problem. You help them practice. You let them work in groups to solve the problems. You present the material in different formats multiple times to appeal to different learning styles.
"Skip count songs" are how I learned the multiplication tables. You could even use those. To cement the concept of division, I was given equally sized small tiles. Say the problem was 20/4. I had to count out 20 tiles and then put them into four groups. Then, when I was done, I counted how many were in each group. 5. Every time. It works for kinesthetic learners, and visual learners. You've got two formats right there. You could even have the whole class act out a division problem. You need to be more creative.
(I went to a kick-ass elementary school.)

>>2574187

Yeah, I blame the students. Fucking stupid lazy kids.

Seriously, in Africa they would die to have the chance to fucking study.

Cancer in society. In the future China will rule because they force their children to not be lazy shits.

That's why I love teaching Chinese students as they either understand the material or listen to me. I wouldn't care if the student understood and talked, but they don't and they talk.

>>2574186
I'll bookmark it and have a look at it in the morning.

I get the feeling if I had a clear head I'd not be this full retard. It's 11:24 PM where I live.

>>2574203
and some kids hate this shit

when i was a kid (brightest at math in my grade) i fucking got so bored when teachers pulled this shit

>>2574203
Group work is shit. It makes the kid having trouble feel like he isn't contributing, the introvert gets stressed and the type A personality either does it themselves not allowing any input or bullies the introvert into doing all the work.

>>2574210
Fat American kids...hopeless future for America. The generation of kids today will form the dumbest one we've seen in a long time, yet for some reason he'll have really high self-esteem.

>>2574203
>give someone tiles
>make them divide them
I've never considered this.

How were you supposed to learn the decimal system?

>>2574203

3) Why are students silent in the classroom? Are they bored? Are they not paying attention?
You need to make them excited about the topic. So let's say they do know how to multiply, divide, add, and subtract, and you need them to be able to solve 5x + 2 = 4.

Try having them understand it with algeblocks. (http://www.etacuisenaire.com/algeblocks/algeblocks.jsp))
They get a visual representation as well as a hands-on way to learn the same thing. If you allow them to work in groups for the first few, while they are getting used to understanding how these things are supposed to work, they will really become more interactive with it.
You also need to make your classroom a safe place for them to explain their thinking. No one is going to say anything if they're petrified of being scolded for being wrong.
Making mistakes is okay. It's part of learning. I don't think any of us made 100% on every single test, practice worksheet, and other assignment we've ever been given. You need to make it so that students do not feel afraid to make mistakes.
Another way of accomplishing that is to not make everything for a grade. You can assess their learning without having everything turned in for a grade, with marks off for every wrong answer. Maybe homework becomes a completion credit that you grade together in class.

>>2574210
China and Africa are full of lazy uninquisitive shits just like anyplace else, you just see the people who want to learn working harder because they have too.

>>2574203

1. Any peer reviewed evidence this works?

No you link me to a very biased website. Shit like this comes out every fucking year. Does shit all.

Word problems are just buzz words again. Most of the time I teaching students how to solve word problems. Doesn't work.

The point is my asian students have no problem at all. However, it's the non asians that struggle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI

The counter argument to you. Most of the program to introduce creativity have failed badly.

>>2574230
>>2574230

Just fucking work moron. Give me hard evidence. Look at youtube link I gave you.

I get no problem from asian students. Because they want to learn maths, or they are forced to by their parents.

>>2574221

1 Green tile = 1
1 Blue tile = 10
1 Red tile = 100

I still remember it. ;-)

>>2574218
Which shit? Going over things other students haven't learned? I'm sorry that you had to put up with that, and it's a bitch to have to go through on the bright-student end of things. However, you can include enrichment activities for brighter students while simultaneously bringing the students who are behind back up to speed.

>>2574219
I know. Group work. Ugh. That means I have to do all of the powerpoints and all of the report.
Typical use of group work.
When I say group work, I don't mean that shit. I would never subject anyone to that kind of bull.
You need to make sure each student is responsible for some criteria. Maybe you have them work in pairs. One person does the odds, and the other does the evens. Then, after every two problems, you switch papers and check over each others work. Or if you're having problems, you ask your partner about it. And it is the responsibility of the partner not to just do it for them (because I am sure the partner really doesn't want to do all 20 problems, but just stick with their 10.)

>>2574252

Sorry. I was getting caught up.
Let me get that for you.

I think kids must be convinced of the utility of education in order to do well. If they think learning a particular topic will not help them, they won't invest their energy into it.

For example, if you want to get inner city blacks to learn algebra frame the problems in relevant terms. Like drugs transactions or figuring out how much money their hos own them or some shit.

>>2574256

What you teach?

As this shit might work in Sciences, but not Maths.

Also, abstraction makes student weak at basic symbolic manipulation. Lack of algorithms would slow you down. Finally, without actually thinking like a Mathematician, then you would not be able to do stuff that depends on advanced Maths.

Sooner or later the dumbfags would need to stop linking things back to stupid examples, that aren't Maths or logical reasoning.

>>2574256
>which shit?

project based learning

fucking shit tier lessons

>>2574256
group work alienates more people than it includes

>>2574271

Pretty much this. Every year some crap comes up that mean't to fix Maths education problem. This shit is the latest crap they came up with.

>>2574252

Can you look at Jstor articles?
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3516079
(Effects of Problem-Based Learning: A Meta-Analysis from the Angle of Assessment
Author(s): David Gijbels, Filip Dochy, Piet Van den Bossche, Mien Segers)

http://www.jstor.org/stable/25145998
(Transactive Memory Systems, Learning, and Learning Transfer
Author(s): Kyle Lewis, Donald Lange, Lynette Gillis)

Let me take a look at that youtube link.

>group work is meant to teach people how to work together
>angry kids of /sci/ hate group work
figures

>>2574286
edu research is so full of horse shit

it never plays out in the real year in year out classroom experience

yet every time it is trumpeted as something to save schools. this has been going on maybe 50 years now. maybe longer. and education doesn't improve.

basically make secondary school a voluntary contract between student and school. solve all our ills.

>>2574267

I am in a program that specializes in teaching strategies for math and science teachers. As I am a science content person, I am not 100% on what they tell the math majors in the program, since they have us in different classes. However, I am 100% positive that the math majors need to take a project based instruction design class, just like the science majors. And I can't imagine it would be that different. That website I linked to before explains how to apply project based learning to a variety of subjects.

>>2574264
This is what "relating a problem to a real-world issue" means.

>>2574271
There is a right way and a wrong way to apply any part of educational pedagogy.

>>2574278
Not if the majority of your classroom is full of people with different learning disabilities or English Language Learners. And not if you make the individuals in the group work responsible on an individual and group level.

>>2574280
Alright then, bright eyes.
How would you solve the problems in math and science education without just giving up on the lowest-achieving students? So far, I feel I am the only one discussing solutions.
Memorization doesn't work for conceptual understanding.

Also, still need to look at that youtube link...

>>2574326
> There is a right way and a wrong way to apply any part of educational pedagogy.
> any

nope. some ways are just bad ways.

>>2574318

Pretty much. New Maths was mean't to be the anwser thirty years back. Now, it't practical maths bullshit.

>>2574286

What your provided has no revelance to Maths. Firstly, the conclusion is mixed, it doesn't say it's good. Not only that, but that PBS overal and not applied to Maths.

You can't teach Maths with word problems or getting people to solve stuff. You have to do it all fashion way of algorithms and calculations until the student grasp the concept.

>>2574326
come back in maybe 5 or 10 years when all this shit you are talking has failed to make any difference. then we'll talk.

>>2574345
old fag here

i did new maths and i loved it

i learned set theory, abstract algebra and any base arithmetic age 6.

i was only one in class who got it though

>>2574369
new math was more about curriculum than teaching methods.

Response to that youtube video you posted:

I never said you never need to use algorithms. But when first introducing the concept of algebra, you're not going to give the students the most difficult algebra problems to solve. You are going to try to connect it with things they already know.
Also, I do not see a problem with the way it's done in the Terc books (as far as 2:40 into the video goes) because it's breaking the problem down into smaller parts. In math there is no one absolute way of solving the problem. There is one correct solution to the problem, but multiple routes to that solution.
And, isn't breaking down the problem into it's component parts an algorithm as well?

You cannot argue that the methods before are working when student test scores do not agree. You cannot argue that no change is required, and it should be taught the same way it was 50 years ago when clearly, the test scores aren't there.

How about a counter video to yours?
http://comment.rsablogs.org.uk/2010/10/14/rsa-animate-changing-education-paradigms/

>>2574326
>This is what "relating a problem to a real-world issue" means.

It has to be more than just relating to the "real-world." Kids have to see how specific education will help them in the long-term in order to get them self-motivated. For example, high school students and college freshmen might take psychology or game theory in order to read people better. If teachers can effectively communicate how specific education helps the student then the kids will be self-motivated and willing to trudge through shit that can't be put into a clever pedagogical game.

>>2574326

So let me get this, you aren't even a teacher. Not even a Maths teacher. Seriously, you are a idiot and your methods won't work in real life.

How I would fix it would be to get parents to a actually discipline their children like asian parents do or some white parents do. Yet most of them have short attention span as they sit around playing computer games.

Now your thinking if only I talk about MW2 they would take an interest. Can't teach maths that way.

Times tabled has to be rote learnt, can';t get around that shit. Division is the same. 1472/368, now you can reason and take half an hour and likely get the anwser wrong, or apply an algorithm.

>>2574294
I can do group work, but as you said, I hate it. It's fucking terrible. There's always going to be someone who doesn't pay attention or simply doesn't get it. It helps those who need it, but the rest are just forced to go along.

I'm one of those kids who was the fastest reader, good at counting and so on. If they had put me in a group where I had to go along with the slower kids, it would've ruined school for me. School was a place where I could, for once, pay attention to something specific and try to do my best at that. Even primary school.

Which is why I suggest students were divided into groups that were best suited for their needs. You don't put a fucking blind kid in the same art class as regular kids, why not use the same principle with all pupils?

>>2574345

Yes. Because, clearly, by practicing the same problems 50x over using the same exact teaching methods as 40 years ago are resulting in decent test scores.
Oh wait.
They're not.

Do you have any idea how many students do not pass standardized exams? And the teachers are flabbergasted! "I taught that." Or "I covered that."
But just because you covered it doesn't mean the student grasped it. Just because you stood up on your podium and jawed away about it doesn't mean anyone understood what you were saying.

From what I hear you saying, students in your classroom are frightened of being wrong. But you look down on all non-Asian students anyway, so what is the point?
I get the impression that you have not created a safe learning environment, and you are completely surprised that students don't want to try new things you tell them about.

>>2574387
> You don't put a fucking blind kid in the same art class as regular kids, why not use the same principle with all pupils?

actually you do. i was trainee teacher and had a blind kid in my further maths A level class. braille text books and everything

mfw he had the bifurcation diagram of the logistic map in braille

>>2574378

Highly likely to not fully understand or misapply it.

Could teach how the gay terc does it, but then students would be confused as hell.

Like to keep things simple. So like if you can't do basic multiplication, you can't do algebra full stop. Reasoning isn't going to help someone who is sloppy.

Thats the main reason. Students are sloppy as hell. Don't know timestable. Can sit there teach them to reason to break say 8x7 to 8 x (2+5), but then they would screw that up aswell.

The point is your in an ivory tower. Thinking you are correct, but have no practical experience(the irony).

Only the old method works, but I have to put up with fags like you telling me I'm teaching kids wrong.

It's ADD brah. I'm the same way. Change his life:

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I'm for Sal Khan's approach.

Kids should be watching/viewing lectures for homework. This way a student gets access to someone who knows how to effectively communicate an idea as opposed to a teacher who might understand the concept but can't communicate it (which is what education is all about).

Then the kids go to school and do the problems. For the full duration of the class the students get to work through the problems and can ask the teacher or another student for help. If the teacher sees a recurring problem he/she can go over the problem with everyone to try and correct what went wrong.

>>2574415
Oh sorry, I didn't realize arts and maths are synonyms. Also, way to miss the point.

>>2574400
the issues you have raised (teachers teaching yet students not learning the material) are 101 problems with 101 solutions to them that don't need some flavour of the month experimental nonsense thrown at them.

>>2574386

No. I am not even a maths teacher. That is why my namefag name says "science teacher" and not maths teacher.

There are ways to bring more interest to rote memorization. I told you before, I learned times tables with skip count songs. I still memorized the facts, but it was presented in a less boring way than a chart with 1-10 on the sides with missing boxes to fill in.

>>2574387
That's why you need to know your students before you start grouping them. You can put students with similar levels of understanding together, but you need some interaction between them, otherwise you end up with a situation where all of the "worst" students are in a group, knowing full well that they aren't good at it, and are, metaphorically speaking, stuck in the mud with the wheels spinning.

OP here again, I'm just throwing throwing more comments out there...

I'm still young, so while I'm furthering my life and education outside of high school I've been teaching swimming lessons for nearly two years.


Some of the kids in my classes are forced to be there by their parents. I feel for them, they have to be there right after school and may or may not have had dinner. Most of them are good kids but can be grumpy and hostile. If I see a student having a bad day I go super easy on them. I try to make their day better. I'm never rude to the children, and treat them all with respect.
While teaching some parts of the swimming lesson or first aid I am often asked "Why do we need to know this? When will we ever use it?"

I answer truthfully and say that you probably never will need to use it, and that my bosses give me pieces of paper that tell me what to teach you guys and I get in trouble if I don't. The kids see where I'm coming from, and most realize that I'm not an evil son of a bitch.

Do I want to make you do the timed swim? No.
Do I want to make you do the endurance swim? No.
I want to do what you guys want to do, which is usually just swimming around like happy-tards chasing each other and yelling and screaming.

I'll tell the kids that I think some of the things on the swimming list are quite dumb and unneeded. They look at me like I'm crazy, what kind of teacher would say these things? After saying things like this I've found that some of the kids have a new level of respect for me, and see me as an equal not a rival.

Honestly sometimes in the middle of class I'll stop for five minutes and talk about video games with the kids while we are having a break from doing laps. It refreshes their minds and opens them up I find.

I find that you just need to get down to their level of thinking.

Go with the flow, not against it.

>>2574326

I dont think most elementary schoolers really need indepth conceptualization

>Only the old method works, but I have to put up with fags like you telling me I'm teaching kids wrong.

>mfw the reason people tell you that you're teaching students wrong is because only your asian students pass the standardized test.

You still have offered no solutions. I suspect you haven't even tried other methods.

>>2574415
>you don't put a blind kid in art class
>a blind kid in art class
>art class
You're missing the point completely.

>>2574400

Actually, they do. I studied taught abroad in china. From a young age they bashed into kids heads how to do the algorithms. Now look at china maths score compared to US

China is beating the shit out of US at Maths. They don't have this crappy new age approach.

You are eating away at our education system.

No I don't see non asians as inferior. Just Asian are taught the correct way. They then pass that on to children, who then do better at Maths.

You want me to get stats that show how better china is doing at maths?

>>2574443

If you do not have a conceptual understanding of division, fractions are going to be a hell of a problem for you.
If you do not have a conceptual understanding of addition and subtraction, and how addition 'undoes' or is 'the opposite of' subtraction, you are going to have a hell of a time learning algebra.
If nothing else, math is one of the subjects where new material lies the heaviest on prior material.

the entire mathematics learning, from 1st grade up through calculus 3, should be scrapped. This is NOT what kids need to be taught, as what they're learning now shouldn't even be considered math. The only people who need to learn that shit are physicists and engineers, and hell, even 90% of the shit we shove down kids throats is useless to them.

compulsion is the best way to get people to work, ie learn.

we all accept it as adults, yet for some reason we get all faggy with children

>>2574469

Yea, but some of that stuff in new math and shit stress "mathematical" thinking as if its applicable to fucking 10 year olds.

I agree they should understand what division, multi., subtraction, and addition needs but some of the methods I seem are ridiculous.

>>2574441
>>2574454

Again, I've taught abroad in China. They taught how I teach now. They had brillent Mathematician over there. Like at age 10, they understood concepts that I'm teaching now to 14 year olds.

I wish education system was like china. You might think they are robots. But, fuck you again.

To be fair, you are the reason why science is going down the pan. In the future asian countries will have taken over because they do it the old way.

>>2574483
>They had brillent Mathematician over there. Like at age 10, they understood concepts that I'm teaching now to 14 year olds.

wow, they understood how to plug in numbers into equations. That'd but fucking fascinating except for the fact that a monkey could learn how to do it.

>>2574461

Did you also realize that students in china are placed in highly tracked classes? That is to say that the top 10% are in one class together. Always. And the next 10% are in a class together. Always. And they are treated as such. And their parents are highly involved. And what do the students in japan do when they do not pass their end of year or graduation exams? They hang themselves.
This is not the situation even remotely in the US. In the United States, as a teacher, it is your job to make sure every single one of the students in your class is able to pass those standards. And the students aren't nearly as highly tracked. Sure, there might be regular, advanced, and AP level of courses, but there are always some students who belong in other places. Some students aren't good test takers. Some students have single parents working several jobs to keep their kids fed and cannot spend hours of time at home helping their child with homework.

I know that China and other countries have much better test scores than the United States. But you are not taking into account the differences in classroom make-up and other factors when making your global comparisons. In the United states, you are not allowed to just teach to asians.

>>2574469

It doesn't lead to greater understanding. Again, old method that most chinese school use have better kids with better understanding of maths.

At the last lesson I was even successfully teaching induction to some. Because they understood how to mainplute formulas very well. They could work directly with symbols as opposed to just thinking in analogies.

So the chinese kids have greater understanding.

>>2574441
>know your students etc.
I'm okay with this. What kind of interaction would there be, between the groups? Activities completely separate of actual studying, like arts. Or exchanging ideas? Better students teaching the worse ones? Some weird hippie style group activities?

>>2574458
I think you're the one doing the missing of point here.

I was saying that just like you don't put blind kids in the same art classes (=people with different levels of abilities are not expected to do the same things at the same rate), you shouldn't group slow kids with the fast ones (=people with different levels of abilities shouldn't be expected to do the same things at the same rate).

>>2574483
They are robots.

You are beating the concept into them. They are obviously not enjoying it.

Then they regurgitate it.

Also China is a shitty communist country so fuck 'em. Fuck 'em up the ass.

>>2574469
maths teacher here

you are maybe one quarter right. line 3 is totally right though.

but most people learn algorithms first. like people learn a language without worrying too much about grammar.

but even any deeper understanding is not used 95% of time. when i simplify some expression, or do some calculus, i just apply the rules without being conscious of the underlying principles, even though i know the underlying principles.

the immersion in technique and method creates a fluency in maths. it is a little like muscle training. you just know how to do things correctly without really knowing why you know.

>>2574474

You work minimum wage for $7.50 an hour and work 40 hours a week. Your monthly rent is $598. You spend about $289 a month on groceries. You spend $78 a week on transportation costs.
Can you afford to go to the movies every month?

>>2574498

I was teaching for charity to poor families in a crappy school. Mostly, because I wanted to be in china for a bit and the had decent money to live on.

So I was teaching average students, not top 10% in some crappy school. Like they didn't have projective and shit we have in are class.

So no I wasn't teaching some rich, smart kids. Mostly poor kids that family mostly worked in dead end factory jobs.

>>2574487

In last lesson, I was teaching induction to them. Like most got it. Certainly, I'm pretty sure I could have taught them group theory.

>>2574514
>You work minimum wage for $7.50 an hour and work 40 hours a week
No I don't
>Your monthly rent is $598.
Nope
>You spend about $289 a month on groceries.
Not even close
>You spend $78 a week on transportation costs.
I ride the bus
>Can you afford to go to the movies every month?Yes, I can thank you. I don't need the sarcasm

you don't know shit about my life and that was a really poor guess

>>2574505

I'm now currently teaching calculus at some uni that isn't even that crap.

Most make stupid mistakes. Like even if you understood that a polynomial of degree n had n roots, how the f would you be able to find nth root of unity if your algebra sucks.

Half of the maths uni I go to is asian students. Because they understand maths as they are taught old method.

>>2574505
I was beginning to think I was the only person in the thread that disagrees with the chinese maths teacher...

>>2574501
You need to play to their strengths. Let's say you're in a science class, and some of your students are terrible with science. But you have talked to their math teacher, and their math teacher says they are fantastic. So you put them in a group with someone who is good at the science knowledge part of it, but maybe not so great with calculations. Then, you give them a problem that requires both. They end up explaining missing concepts to each other.

Whenever you make a group, you need to assign group roles. That way each group member is individually accountable, and other group members will not be penalized if one member doesn't do anything. Often, group role examples are used with lab groups. Let me use some thinking roles as examples, with the context of the lab.
1) prediction manager. This person predicts what will happen in the experiment, explaining their reason for thinking it, and will make further predictions based on the conclusions drawn at the end of the lab.
2) Evidence collector. This person will summarize the results and relate the evidence to the predictions. Were the predictions supported or disproved?
3) Skeptic. What else could cause the phenomenon to happen? Were any variables not controlled for? Are there sources of error?
4) Researcher. This person uses other sources to support or disprove theories. What is already known? Are there other sources? What do they say? Are they credible?

Specifically, these roles do not apply to math. I already told you all, though, my field is SCIENCE. And so I am learning to teach SCIENCE. Although the general methods can be applied to math.

>>2574542

Privatize education.

People would not attend or pay for a teacher that doesn't teach. People also wouldn't pay to learn garbage like Shakespeare when they could learn about how to open up a checking account, have good credit, pay taxes properly, finance a house or car, etc...

Also I don't need to listen to professors ramble on about how evil the white male protestant is in order to be a biologist or accountant.

I think some of you need to realize, the younger kids are, the easier it is to teach them math, especially when you compare pre 12-13 to post 12-13 (this is when neurology has shown the right parietal lobe, responsible for the majority of complex spatial-temporal reasoning, stops large-scale development)

>>2574553

Oh. So it's university level students you are teaching.
Because 10 year old students who are, in addition to trying to learn the material, learning how to learn, are definitely the same as the smaller percentage of students who have had success with traditional teaching methods in classrooms and have been accepted to a university.

>>2574580
would only work if you make it non compulsory also

>>2574542

That was an example of a real world problem that could be solved using the math taught in k-12 schools.
I am not sure how you thought it could even possibly be a personal attack.

>>2574580
>Privatize education
>How many Coca-Cola bottles can you fit in a truck with dimensions of...
>Now repeat after me, "Voulez-vous des frites avec ça?"

Dude, the education system is in absolute disrepair. Honestly, the internet is more of an educational source than the schools now-a-days. Luckily the current party in power is investing a bit more into it (unlike the last one) but honestly, education should be a nations number one priority, absolute pinnacle. Everything else will fall in line when you have a well educated population. It's just old, conservative, fuckfaces that don't give a fuck about the future as long as they are happy now.

Don't blame your brother's ignorance and stupidity on teachers. It just makes you look like a typical retarded fucking American who runs away from their issues without taking responsibility.

In these recent 4 years of my high school education I skipped AT LEAST half of it to play vidya (I'll give you 1 guess as to which game it was). No, that isn't hyperbole. I literally skipped that much, if not more. I was fucking stupid for doing so, but am not going to blame my teachers for my own idiocy. In the past year, after coming to the realization of how much of a fuck up I was, I have independently taught myself Algebra 1 and 2. I'm also beginning trig and calc; also on my own. And that's just the mathematics spectrum.

>>2574580
>History and art
>garbage

How's that autism working out for ya?

>>2574597

No I used to teach 10 year olds. I taught 10 year olds in china. The chinese are taught much better.

Half the children I teach at uni level are chinese.

>>2574602
>>2574580

And these are the solutions outside of what a teacher, as a teacher, can do. But I think they are viable options.
However, I also think that everyone needs to be given the opportunity to make a better life for themselves. Perhaps k-5 should still offer free public schooling.
However, the system would need to take into account those who are bad test takers, those who are english language learners, and those who have learning disabilities. And if someone realizes at 16 that they should have done better before, they should be given the opportunity to try, regardless of whether they are living in a single-parent household that is towards the poverty line.

>>2574570
I agree with these when it comes to SCIENCE.

Wouldn't work in Finland though, as we don't even have these SCIENCE lessons but sure, I get your point.

I do think that divisions like these shouldn't be limited to group activities. Like in math class, slower learners should be grouped and taught in a way that best suits them. There'd be less pressure from teachers to fit the average, they'd have better peer support and their learning would improve. That sort of things.

>>2574630

So your experience includes teaching 10 year olds in china and teaching math majors at university level.
And I said those groups are not comparable on several levels. One of those levels is an age difference; they have different interests and have different expectations of how they are supposed to learn, with the ones at University having been weeded out based on university selection criteria.
Another level is the cultural difference. We talked about that.
Another level is the fact that you have to pay for university. Every Tom, Dick, and Sally cannot afford university. And, relating to my first point, they can't all get in.

>>2574636

No they wouldn't. In china 10 year olds are much stronger than US 10 year olds academically.

Most can speak two languages.

Seriously, I'm going to move to singapore or some place like that. US is getting destroyed by faggots like you. I've seen what works.

>>2574654

No I taught 10 year old in US.

To be fair, 10 year old in china are generally as good as the uni fag I'm teaching at Maths.

Like, I would rather choose a chinese student that is 13 to teach higher level calculus, than a 17 year old dickward I teach.

The point is 10 year old chinese students are much better at Maths, than 10 year old US students.

You agree with this?

>>2574670

both chinese and american children are equally fucking stupid. All of the greatest mathematical minds in history have been from Europe.

Deal with it.

>>2574670

I haven't been to China, so I don't have enough information.

>>2574670
No, 10 years old chinese student are as stupid as any 10 years old student
The only difference between them is the quality of education they receive

America's education is really scary from my point of view

>>2574698

I'm fucking wasting my time. You are a idiot and hope you never teach maths.

Look at the maths scores worldwide, china is much better,. You need to be serious bias to not see that. Fuck US is shit tier for Maths.

There is no crisis in China for Maths.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6589301.stm?lsm

fuck is the american education system fucked.
you guys can't even agree on what's wrong with it and that's the first step of fixing shit.

>>2574735
The problem is, I believe, the same as in my country

Students are distributed randomly and study at the speed of the dumbest

>>2574760

that is dumb...
in my country the dumb students get put in a special class.
but this is new right? after the no child left behind thing.
you didn't do so well before that either.

>>2574696
European education sucks too, I dropped school to study, this isn't normal

>>2574614
>I acted like a fuckface! I'm assuming your brother acted like a fuckface
>now watch me try to brag about teaching myself!
mfw

>>2574772
But on meth it is.

>>2574772
Not in Finland, Estonia or Netherlands so it must be either snow or weed.

>>2574794
>>2574807
WTF? Why are you talking about drugs?

> Americunt high school

>History/Social "scienece" teachers
- All football coaches. Tests were just problems given in class.

> Math teachers
- All track coaches. Classes consisted of football and track players being favored and them talking about football/track. About 10min lessons. Tests were just problems given in class.
- The one non-track coach teacher did not give a fuck and would be ready to leave the school 15min before the day ended so he could go to his second job. His class was he gave examples and actually answered questions but tests were just problems given in class.

> Bio/Chem/Physics
- Wimmenz teachers that didn't give a shit about shit. Tests were just problems given in class.

>modern americans are descendants of outcast europeans
>people have proposed colonizing planets with american outcasts
You think americans are having it bad? Wait till you see martian test scores.

/lit/ here

>Mfw he legitimately does not know

He has a legitimate reason not to know? His not knowing is justified in some way?

Or do you mean to say he *genuinely* does not know?