/sci/ - Science & Math

Even assuming your transhumanism hypothesis were true (stop smoking so much weed btw), wouldn't you rather be one of the elites on that cutting edge than some drop-out who can't afford cool implant stuff?

Then again, might as well quit now before you waste more time.

What's your major?

Chances are, it won't be obsolete.
Just because you are learning things the old-fashioned way doesn't mean that you should drop out.
The point of a diploma (from an accredited institution) is to be able to certify that you know what you are supposed to know for certain fields. For example, the medical field, the engineering field, research anywhere, etc.

>>2573050
Finish your degree be part of the change. Why wait for it to happen?

You've already come this far, why throw away the time you put in?

Technology is not advancing so fast that the minute you drop out of college there will be trans-humanism.

>>2573050
Yes, a degree engineering is pointless. The USA is currently phasing out engineering degrees in favor of certifications. Engineering is a fucking trade, and does not require anything other the 2 year trade school and certification.

Smart move OP!

>>2573050
Drop out
Save your money

I'm in the same viewpoint as you, OP

Only exception is I'm going back for graduate school instead of dropping out of school. All of this connectivity makes learning so much easier. Stay in school and use it for what it is really useful for: funded research and social networking.

>implying any retard that works at taco bell would be as proficient as an engineer.


Even if the knowledge is out there, most of them lack the ability to even understand this concepts, and the will to go through the very basics to do so.

Dont be stupid Op, is just 1 more year and you are done. Also, they have been telling us that the singularity would reach us... 10 years ago.

you'd think so, but think of how many people 40-50+ who don't know how to even use a computer or stuggle with checking emails and shit. do you REALLY think that technology is going to change the viewpoint of some guy interviewing you for an engineering job? no. will you make a solid salary with your degree? yes.

>>2573115
>implying any retard that works at taco bell wouldn't be proficient as an engineer

Engineering isn't that hard bro.

>>2573115

>>2573092
I think technology really is developing fast enough and it may be a matter of only a year or two before collective intelligence builds upon itself as a vastly superior form of productivity. In school we are taught to think separately and individually when if we were put together we would create an exponentially more intelligent entity. Things like http://cci.mit.edu/ are getting much more attention and I've also noticed the trillions of dollars of investment that American ventures are just waiting to put to use in the next year or so. And once the tech market's promises prove viable (such as regenerative medicine in biotech, smart phones and social networking, advanced AI, etc), massive productivity will ensue. Solidarity will topple government as we know it and this may only precipitate the change to happen faster as we can collectively work together to solve humanity's challenges - solutions that are beginning to gain immense pressure, especially in developing countries where they are impacted the hardest and have the most to improve by getting online so rapidly.

Sounds crazy and too optimistic, I know, but I've been keeping up with science news almost nonstop for about a year (stuff like http://www.sciencedaily.com/).).

As far as "wasting the time I've put into it", my point is that the entire paradigm of learning will change and I won't have wasted anything if our past learning methods become outdated and replaced. This may just be myself rationalizing taking the easy way out, but I think all this is inevitable.

Also, I apologize for my horrendous repetitive writing, did I mention I'm an engineeringfag?

>>2573164
don't drop out, you're not thinking clearly
1% of people do most of the innovation in the world, if you think this will drastically change in the near future you're very naive. You need to be inside the system to be able to make a difference.

>>2573050
Drop out. It is the right choice!

>>2573241
don't forget to turn on and tune in

>despite smoking weed.

Stopped reading there.

>>2573221
I appreciate your advice, but I would like to politely disagree.

Have you ever wondered how many of the top 1% of intelligent people are living in developing countries? Or how about how many innovative, creative people are squashed by the cold hard structure of the education system? There is vast potential out there that is waiting to be tapped, and the interconnectedness of billions of people suddenly getting online is beginning to rock these foundations (facebook is poised to make over a billion dollar profits this year, if not more). The technology is getting much, much cheaper and available to everyone. An example is, say, music. There has been an explosion in how much music is being produced because now anyone, anywhere, can download music software and create whatever they want - and the user functionality is just getting easier (speaking of user functionality, here's the tip of the iceberg of brain user interface: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110218142440.htm).).

The education system as we know it is beginning to implode. We will find potential through merit, but this merit will not have to be acquired through years of walking to class, paying thousands of dollars in inflated tuition fees, and being crammed in a room of 50 people listening to an incompetent teacher drone on about how you should memorize certain problems (I'm exaggerating a bit here, but if you see the potential of digital learning, you can get a world class education anywhere, anytime, learning anything).

>>2573296
cont.
As far as how I'm going to survive, I can already get internships or jobs over next summer and simply not return to school. Sure, I won't earn as much, but as I said, even business itself will break down. Look at websites like this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1294391907/haptica-braille-watch
Crowd sourcing is another paradigm shift. The idea is that if you want to create a product, you simply get enough people to pledge the money and once that happens, the development and engineering costs can be covered and it will be made.

>>2573287
I've stopped for a few months now, I can think clearly.

I think you're being overly dramatic about it all. People are naturally attracted to the mystical and conspiratorial. Many people have been certain that the world is coming to an end, yet we are all here today. The future depends on so many more variables than your mind can ever be aware of.

>http://cci.mit.edu/
>>2573164
viral marketing

>>2573300
> Crowd sourcing is another paradigm shift.

Get the fuck out of here kurzweil

>>2573305
> I think you're being overly dramatic about it all.

I agree that many people have predicted the end of the world etc and are always, always wrong. But our ability to predict things are getting better (although the future is inherently impossible to predict because of so many variables, you are correct), and the improvements in imaging software and data collection WILL vastly improve things. We're at the point where we have almost too much data to handle (you can thank moore's law) but we will process it and put it to use.

As far as being "too dramatic", no one in their right mind would have predicted the sudden protests in the middle east. No sane global analyst or anyone would have bet on this to happen. But it did. And I honestly think it will spread. To Europe, to china, even america. The recent protests in wisconsin had most people alluding to the protests in egypt. Solidarity is happening and will happen before we know it. There is huge amounts of shift happening that is unnoticable, but it is building up. And it's happening soon.

>>2573307
I'm being way too indirect and detailed to be considered a viral marketer.
> in b4 "that's wut a viral marketer would say hurr durr"

>>2573050
>>my degree will be obsolete before I even graduate
>>Thinking about dropping out of college.
>>electrical engineering

I dunno where the heck you're studyin' bro, but where I am electrical engineering is one of the biggest majors in demand

it's also a difficult-as-fuck program that only the smartest of the people I know get through... at least at my school it is

I would pretty heavily advise you stick with it

I looked into crowd sourcing and the way it is done today is not a good business modell, and I haven't seen anything that requires creative effort that worked as a crowdsourcing project.
The things that worked are simple menial type stuff, like typing, data entry, the things you do on amazon mechanical turk, I would really like this to work, because there's a lot more human potential thats being used now, and a platform that would take advantage of that, while properly motivating and conpensating for the time invested.

>>2573367
It is one of the most high demand majors and is very broad and has the brightest people in it. If anything this gives me more credibility on what I'm saying. And I wasn't necessarily saying my degree will be obsolete, but degrees in general are about to nosedive in value (and most already have).

>>2573374
The first step is always clumsy. This is why wikipedia was heavily criticized when it started. But after a proof of concept occurs, hundreds of clones are made and it is refined into the new status quo. I believe most of the false predictions on the future are caused by humans still tribal mentality (we have barely evolved out of the jungle). 20 thousand years ago, our way of living did not change much and we are not used to predicting such change, which results in huge bias. As monotonous as kurzweil sounds, he is right that humans are terrible at visualizing something different and do not understand exponential growth.

>>2573382
>>And I wasn't necessarily saying my degree will be obsolete, but degrees in general are about to nosedive in value (and most already have).

you might be right
but I haven't seen that effect around here
and it'd be mighty foolish to throw away a perfectly good EE degree on the basis of that prediction, when plenty of employers are still going to be valuing accredited engineers for plenty of years to come

>>2573343
You're right in that big changes can take place at any time at all, but that goes for most things in life as well. You might pick a disease or get hit by a car or something whenever. Educating oneself is to take a risk, likewise is dropping out. What in the world could offer you a more safe future than an attractive education?

OP, you must be smoking some meeeeaaannnn shit. (lol I've always wanted to use that)

You need to get outside of your little bubble OP. More than half the world still lives without electricity and plumbing systems. Only 2 billion of a total of 7 billion people use the internet.

No, really, just go outside and play some basketball or something. You're not thinking straight.

>>2573424
There are a few reasons that degrees are still somewhat valuable.

1) They are less about what you learn and more about long term commitment and resourcefulness, which says good things to an employer. While most of the learning is on the job, the degree will help you learn it faster and understand the concepts and theory behind it, as well as making you "trusted" with responsibility (you wouldn't want someone without a solid accreditation building your bridge, would you?)
As a counter argument to that, I believe commitment will be less of a factor in the near future since the market will become more volatile and employees will move from business to business quicker. As far as the trust issue, with collective intelligence, problems and quality can be thoroughly checked for accuracy and more people working on something will keep the employees stable and you won't have to worry about keeping individual workers for the longer term (at the moment employers don't want to risk throwing benefits and paperwork at someone who may not stay).
2) Many of the people in charge are still "old school" and cannot see the trends going on in the world. They are used to be conservative and taking minimal risk, so they won't change their hiring strategy at the moment.
Counterargument 2) More entrepreneurs are younger and technologically literate. The influx of non-conventional mentality (which is being heavily encouraged in today's market) will phase out the relics. See people like peter tiel or elon musk, etc.

>>2573488
cont...

I had more reasons but im a bit tired of typing at the moment. My main points were going to be AI being more accurate than humans. Post scarcity. Virtual environments being able to simulate and predict scenarios better. And people "thinking together" rather than indvidually.

>trusting /sci/ with serious career advice about engineering

>>2573513
> I had more reasons but im a bit tired of typing at the moment

thank god

OP, I think you're overestimated the world at the moment. You've been watching too many TEDtalks and hanging out with your EE friends too much. 95% of people are absolutely retarded. Try walking outside of your campus and talking to the mongoloids that walk this earth. Then realize that a degree is what separates yourself from these people and helps you exploit them for profits.

OP, there is a fine line between intelligence and delusion. Lean towards the intelligent side and conventional wisdom. Just finish your education, it's only 1 more goddamn year!

I lol whenever people think college is about learning skills that are going to be important at their job.
College is for getting knowledge and more importantly putting something on your resume.
Everything that you will be doing in you job, you will learn while working there.
And technology is advancing at the same pace it always has. This moment isn't any special.

>>2573640
> I lol whenever people think college is about learning skills that are going to be important at their job.
I'm pretty sure I acknowledged this here >>2573488

>And technology is advancing at the same pace it always has.
If by "advancing" you meant "accelerating" then yes, and even then it's accelerating faster than normal lately.

>This moment isn't any special.
I'd disagree (also, normalcy bias). While it isn't a "moment", there is about to be relatively sudden change. As I said before, I think the next two years is when people will start seeing the effect of feedback from the benefits of the internet to expand our knowledge at unprecedented rates and collective intelligence used to collaborate unprecedented projects.

So OP, I've had a similar thought recently, and I have to say that I think both of our problems stem from reading too much news and caring too much. Sappy and cliche, but for a reason.
Why? Well, I'm going to suppose that you've been reading about all the change and upheaval in the world, from the comparatively mild British kettling of their students to the Tunisia/Egypt/Libya country-wide protests.
You read about the inventors that had a great idea and have changed the world with their oil-water separators in the Gulf.
You want to be a part of that change, and you don't see how some piece of paper is going to help you, yes? You already have some knowledge, and with the internet and books, you can learn the rest. You care, and you want to help the world.

It's noble, and stop it.

Some change happens that way. All the other change has to flow through the channels of bureaucracy or be rejected. If you want to help as an independent engineer in the US, you need to pass the PE or face rather large penalties for impersonating an engineer (this may or may not be a crazy law, but the intent was to prevent random folks from building public-use structures that later turned out to be dangerous).
Not getting the degree means you're banking on succeeding as part of the 'new change', which is nice and all, but having the degree means that you can still do that in a year, and you have a wonderful fall-back plan in case you have a case of the indifference later in life.

>majoring in EE
>claims degree will become obsolete due to technology rapidly advancing
>mfw OP thinks technology is advancing itself

>>2573717
Good advice. I'll try to finish this semester semi well and make my decision after I work in the real world for a bit as an intern this summer (already have a few potential positions, even one in china). But I'm the kind of person without a "fall back plan" because I'm so sure of myself. I only applied to one college because I knew I'd get accepted, etc. It may be risk taking, but I can't put effort into something that I'm pretty sure will fail (while I put all the effort in the world in succeeding). This is probably a mistake but on the bright side, if I don't take the PE then I'd rather not work buerocracies anyways. They will fall soon enough.

Thank again for the advice. I'll stop clogging this board now.

You're right, OP. You're too stupid to become an EE. Drop out and be a grocery bagger instead.

>>2573849
ironically i used to be a grocery bagger. i quit after a month

>>2573839
I left college after finishing my 3rd year in Computer Science for business opportunities. I'm still a well-employed software developer, but not finishing the degree was the stupidest thing I've ever done in my life.

singularity/transhumanism thread?

>>2573849
>Too stupid to become an EE
Is that even possible?

>>2573869
Maybe he's not stupid.

If he's not gay, that would explain not wanting to be an engineer.

>>2573868
is there a mental condition for this yet? Singularitism? Kurzweil fever?

clearly OP has a severe case

Don't. You'll regret it. An EE w/ 3.8 GPA will make you a golden goose. Drop out only if you'll be satisfied doing blue collar work (not that there's anything wrong with it, but you have an alternate opportunity).

>>2573050
If you are capable of graduating you should. College isn't that long and once you're done with it you can do whatever you want, even work at McDonalds if you so desire.

A bachelor's degree auto-qualifies you for a fuckload of jobs completely unrelated from your major.

Don't become an engineer (homosexual) OP. Follow your heart, make a well written blog detailing your thoughts and visions and try to get popularity (you can use this as part of your resume in the future actually). Get your intern position and prove yourself in the real world with experience. Then start an social entrepreneurial online website based on your ideas. You may be onto something and what you're describing seems like you have the mind of a true thinker. Don't become an engineer, manage them :)

Do chem-e or chem. Or finish the core EE stuff and do pre-med courses b4 graduation. That way you can go to med school and do some good for soceity.

Don't pussy out.

If you like smoking weed, don't become an engineer. You get drug tested.

>>2573893
>>you have the mind of a true thinker

Yet he said:

>>despite smoking weed every day

>>2573911
Getting those grades while smoking is pretty impressive actually. And many innovators do drugs, in fact at this point you're almost stupid if you don't do them at some point in your life.

If you like sucking cock, become an engineer. You get cock tested.

>>2573923
I hear it's a breathalyzer too.

OPEN WIDE!

OP drop out, you're way to thick to be educated.

Seriously, wtf are you talking about? I live in the UK- a degree is now a standard requirement for almost any reasonable job, so much so that I'm considering a PhD after graduation to stay ahead of the pack.

If we're serious about all the technological developments you're talking about, people will need to be educated to use, develop, contribute and apply them. You won't be one of them.

1. Understand that your degree does not dictate your career
2. Understand that you MUST have a degree in order to be successful in life
3. Get a degree and then do what the fuck you want

This is coming from someone with a master's degree who used to think degrees were worthless. But having a M.Sc. has opened some pretty interesting doors that have nothing to do with my field of study.

Get a degree.

>>2573936

this

too many people think a degree is the be all and end all of their life

people that drop out or don't attend are seen as failures

>>2573960
I would actually like to challenge this notion and agree with OP. Degrees are really hitting an inflection point and about to become worthless. Although if he has a 3.8 and is only a year away I would say do it. But there are many successful people without degrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_dropout_billionaires
Although these people had great ideas and are the exception, it is inspirational.

dude, with the success you've had so far at least finish college out

enter the job market for a few years before you commit to a professional degree, then you'll have some money to fall back on and better perspective on what you think is happening in the world

>>2573974
Even if that is true. I sincerely doubt it will happen in the next few years. He might be right, but it's such a long shot I wouldn't count on it.

>>2573974

2 problems with that

1. People have survived jumping out of planes without parachutes, some people have died jumping out of planes with parachutes. So the point you can get lucky.

2. The context has changed. Realistically, Bill Gates is now not going to get the top microsoft job or did what he did now. Back, then degrees wasn't important as it was rarer.

Now since everyone getting a degree, the standard of employment going to be inflated. So stupid advice.

>>2573936

give door examples

>>2574047
1) all upper management government positions require a master's level degree in my country
2) the company i work for requires at least a bachelor's for architect/managerial positions
3) the national cyber crime lab only hires people with master's degree

I find myself in a similar situation as OP.
I want to work as a translator, but every time I see smart phone APPs able to translate text by analyzing a picture (no matter how crappy the translation is) I fear my skills I will become obsolete within a decade. So while I would probably find work after I graduate I'm unsure as to my future financial security.

>>2573974
To be successful without a degree you basically have to start a successful business. It is MUCH harder than what anyone here thinks to start a successful business. NO ONE here is going to be Bill Gates or that facebook faggot. Overwhelming odds are that any business you attempt to create will fail, and then you will be out of money and have no degree for getting a job.

It's not IMPOSSIBLE to succeed without a degree, but it is very unlikely. I speak as someone who HAS succeeded without a degree, but I realize now how lucky I was, and that I was a fucking idiot not to finish the degree. In my case, I had a shitton of relevant paid programming experience when I dropped out, so I could eventually get a good development job based on that experience, and did fantastically in that job, so that my resume became very impressive. But there are STILL jobs that are closed to me, despite having a great resume, patents and shit. The best jobs require a masters or phd to even be considered.

>>2574104
Wise man. It's ridiculous to see people really think that "being the next Bill Gates" is seriously a viable option if they don't get their degree. If you can't handle getting a degree, it's unlikely you will be able to handle much other difficult tasks in life.

>>2574062
>>2574062
yay no black people in management!

>>2574022
>1. People have survived jumping out of planes without parachutes, some people have died jumping out of planes with parachutes. So the point you can get lucky.

beautiful analogy. i would also like to add that "having a good idea" is like falling onto a mud surface while skydiving. Do you want to take that chance, OP?

i hear several people say "degrees are worthless but still needed for any decent position". dont you think then that it is a matter of time before people realize this and the value really does go down? OP just maaaaybe might be right. he also cited the reason for it too - people in management now are still old school

yes im justifying myself not having a degree

The past few generations have done a good job of emphasizing education. This has led to everyone having a bachelor's degree. College has become a rite of passage among middle class families. Today a Master's degree is the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree, and in 2011>, you will really need a Ph.D. to be taken seriously as a professional. B.S. -> <$50k. M.S. -> >$80k. Ph.D./M.D. -> >$100k

OP I hope this has all convinced you to finish your friggin' degree

>>2574208
OP here.

It has. I trust you guise. I thought this was a good place to challenge people's views and seeing if I might be onto something. Either way, I should just finish it.

>>2574185
2 problems with that. 1) People saying "degrees are worthless" does not make them worthless. It doesn't even mean those people actually believe what they are saying. 2) If you're hiring an entry level EE and you have 50 applicants, and half of them have EE degrees, and half of them don't, the first thing you're going to do, NO MATTER WHAT, NO MATTER WHEN, is throw the resumes without degrees in the trash.

>>2573974

Worthless? Are you kidding?

Getting lucky with a business scheme doesn't deface the value of an education. Besides, most of those people come from well-doing families. Getting into Harvard alone is proof enough; most people that go there have parents that push for education and have most likely made sure their sons were educated not only at school, but at home.

You may be thinking that seeing college graduates these days are common. I'm not in the workforce yet (I would guess neither are you), so I can't refute that. But you are only looking at the surface of a degree - its worth to an employer. Some may laugh, but a degree's worth lies in the journey that led up to its obtainment. The people one is around, the concepts and ideas one learned about, the work one did that broadened their perspective on life. The brain slowly develops faculties for the ability to think critically. Admittedly, not all colleges can supply such an environment for mental development. People will tell fool's gold from gold eventually though, and employers already practice processes for weeding.

Finally, for many low-income minorities, not going to college is akin to committing career-suicide. A degree is a salient tool for social mobility of the lower class. Tell these people a degree is becoming worthless, and they'll laugh in your face, because they know better than anyone that it is simply not true.

>>2574207

No, you won't need a PhD.

OP here being annoying again (and yes im getting my degree).

Here's a WoW analogy (i havent played it for years tho, and i jsut thought of this). Let's say there's a top guild in the server that defeats all the bosses first - it's highly selective and only lets the very best join. A mage (for sake of argument) tries to join but has shitty gear. He is unable to join because he just doesnt have the requirements to do the same amount of DPS (damage per second) as other mages, even if he is more skilled. He works to get all the best gear he can and manages to be able to do higher DPS than the other mages in the top tier guild. However, they still won't let him in because he simply doesn't have the same base damage as the other mages. The only way he can get the best gear is to be in the guild and kill the best monsters. He is in effect shut out of the guild because he didn't take the time to join a semi-decent guild to obtain almsot top-tier armor (which would have taken a while and much effort, much like a college education). This is analogous to the situation with getting jobs in the real world right now - if you dont go to college you are simply NOT going to get the best jobs, it's almost impossible.

Now in the future lets say everyone gets a level playing field - all of the very best gear imaginable, so the true skill does show and the mage gets into the top tier guild. This is analogous to giving everyone in the world the exact same opportunity (ie, everyone can learn the same thing as people with a degree) and true merit is shown. Although its not possible now, it may happen in the near future. This is what I'm talking about.

boy i feel like a fag for writing that