/sci/ - Science & Math

Simpler times of dying from plague, cholera or typhoid? Or is it the goiters and famines you long for?

The grass is always greener on the other side.

seconded

Yeah, I wish we still lived at one with nature man, dying before we're 30 man, you know everyone over that age just sells out to the man man

It's not the technology itself, but how it is used, and the societal expectations around a piece of technology.

For example, if a man was alone in the world, and could use a car however he pleased, he would be quite liberated, for now he could go literally anywhere his car could take him. Without traffic laws or social expectations of use, a car is extremely simple to use.

However, put a million people acting this way in the same place at the same time and there would be utter chaos. It is the need to share a piece of technology in such a way that it conforms to social norms and expectations that leads to stress, not the technology itself.

Yeah, life was so much easier when we lived in the forest OH GOD A TIGER

...he typed on his computer.

Hey, how's that 70+ year life expectancy working out for you? Pretty nice huh?

What about that air-conditioned and heated house you're living in? Wouldn't want to give up that would you?

But I guess you're kind of right, it's pretty neat dying from preventable and eradicable diseases. Natural selection and all.

>Be an ecologist
>Get to play in the woods
>Also get to do fun math and theory stuff
>Also get to play with computers and programming
>Best of both worlds

Also, turn your TV and phone off.
Then you'll be fine.

>>2549683

>Simpler times of dying from plague, cholera or typhoid?
You guys really love to trot out that old canard don't you?

>>2549692

>...he typed on his computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

>>2549692

>What about that air-conditioned and heated house you're living in? Wouldn't want to give up that would you?
I don't like air conditioning.

>Hey, how's that 70+ year life expectancy working out for you? Pretty nice huh?
Meh

Why don't you join the Amish, then? Enjoy praying 3 times a day and squatting over a hole in the ground to shit.

Trolls thrive in their natural environment

>>2549702
Except it's not a "canard" but rather a truth that people usually died of some miserable bacterial disease. I'm not going to participate any more, because you're just going to sit here and deny even the most basic and readily confirmed facts.

>I wish we could go back to simpler times.
You can do it right fucking now.

Go ahead. Do it.

>>2549730

>Except it's not a "canard" but rather a truth that people usually died of some miserable bacterial disease

Look, I can do it too:

Don't you love the modern times?
Modern times of dying from AIDS, SARS, and Antibiotic Resistance Super Viruses? Or is it the obesity and cancer you long for?

>>2549777
>Antibiotic Resistance Super Viruses

Everyone on /sci/ needs to read this sentence.

http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna5.htm

It's not the technology, it's how you use it.

>>2549798
High five for citing the utopian side of Manna.

In the end, technology (and a more realistic population) will be what allows us to live in at least some sort of harmony with nature. Sensible distribution of resources and efficient use there of are the keys to saving the world and we'll only obtain them through technology.

>>2549777
>Modern times of dying from AIDS, SARS, and Antibiotic Resistance Super Viruses? Or is it the obesity and cancer you long for?
O LAWD
1. The AIDs deathtoll relative to the global population is not that high
2. SARs was a joke of a virus. The flu kills more people
3. Superviruses? Really? Watching too many moveis are we?

Obesity and cancer are problems and scientists are trying to deal with them. Overall our standard of living is WAY better than long ago. I fucking love technology and you do too considering we probably live thousands of miles apart and we're holding a conversation together otherwise you'd be some crackpot henry david thoreau wannabe in a log cabin somewhere freezing your ass off and getting cracks in your feet due to cold and eating bitter berries and taking a shit out in the woods with nothing to wipe it with but leaves.

Yeah, competing against lions and bears with our soft fleshy bodies with no technology like spears would be far less stressful.

u r dum

>>2549828
I'm reading it, on the last chapter right now. There were times I was poised to call bullshit, but then the author addressed the issues that the simple-minded Zeitgeist morons completely ignored.

It's possible. But it requires a level of technology that doesn't exist yet, and the transition to such a society can be smooth rather than a revolution.

And they didn't throw out money, even though the word "free" is thrown around. It's just equal income.

>>2549828
We who cannot even put our own planetary home in order, riven with rivalries and hatreds; are we to venture out into space?
By the time we are ready to settle even the nearest other planetary systems, we will have changed.
The simple passage of so many generations will have changed us.
Necessity will have changed us.
We’re an adaptable species.
It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri and the other nearby stars, it will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses.
More confident, far seeing, capable, and prudent.
For all our failings, despite our limitations and fallibilities, We Humans are Capable of Greatness.
What new wonders undreamt of in our time will we have wrought in another generation and another?

>>2549832
But more people are dying now than they did back then.

>>2549834

>technology like spears
A spear is a tool.
A computer is a piece of technology.

One is, in some sense, an extension of the human body; the other has the ability to function autonomously.

Learn the difference.

>>2549844
*ahem*

>>2549844
(cont)
The one problem is that they seem to say that resource allocation is done "by the robots", even though priorities and rules are set democratically.

I've got to call bullshit on that one. We don't have anything like the AI needed for central planning of resource allocation. But I'm sure we could create a self-correcting system that isn't just centralized. We've got a version of it right now, which would work much better if income was more socialized, if not totally equalized.

>>2549849
By total or by percentage of the total population?

>>2549850
>doesn't understand that tools are technology

>>2549854
Sorry, you're a moron.

You totally lost me when you made clear your intentions to first deceive and then rob Australia.

Pay for your fucking land, faggot.

>>2549850

Does your computer turn itself on?

Does it ever do anything without your input or influence?

>>2549849
I know you're not talking about violence, but we're living in one of the best times in all of human history.

Steven Pinker - TED Talk - A Brief History of Violence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk

>>2549874

If you factor out the huge infant mortality rates, you end up finding that the ancients were just as healthy as us crazy moderns.

>>2549880
That's not justification for deception and powergrabs. I won't follow you, because I cannot trust you.

>>2549889
Modern medicine alone makes this is completely untrue.

>>2549884

>Does it ever do anything without your input or influence?
My other computer is downloading torrents as we speak.
I certainly initiated this 'behaviour', but the computer does not need my continued input to continue functioning.

Do you find this hard to understand?

living in the jungle and in caves and shit is obviously retarded but living without the internet basically the second half of the 20th century would be pretty nice.

>>2549894

>Modern medicine alone makes this is completely untrue.
Explain

>>2549896

Do you find it hard to understand that 'tool' and 'technology' is a useless distinction? You're just making an arbitrary binary based on complexity.

Fundamentally they are the same thing - a creation of our own mind used to some end to make life easier or perform some kind of function that is otherwise not capable of being performed by our bodies or minds.

>>2549901
Look at people who live to 30 without modern dentistry and tell me that's not worse. Or having tapeworms. Or dying from conditions with simple cures. Or never having your club foot fixed. Or living with a hernia instead of having it repaired.

The myth that living in a primitive tribe is "healthy" is sheer nonsense.

>>2549892
What claim does the government of Australia have to the land?
Because their ancestors came along and said 'This our land now.'
We cannot, and will not pay Australia monetary compensation for the land we take, however we will have different systems that would be immensely beneficial to them such as the rent-a-factory system (they use our power and automation to create any items they want by giving that factory the blueprints of what they want and the robots keep on producing as long as the raw materials required are constantly supplied to it by the company/group in question.)

We can also agree that any technology developed in the TRS, since it is open-source will be most likely released first to Australians as it propagates through to the rest of the world. And last of all, THEY'RE NOT USING IT.

>>2549914
Get the fuck out. You could use this logic to take anything you want, anytime you want. And if I followed you on your scheme, you would eventually use it on me.

op is so fucking right. i sold my mobilephone and i feel like my life turned 100better. someday im going to live in the woods for a year, trying to survive on my own in a wood cabine and trade shit for goods i need for the start like milk and shit like that. maybe going to buy some animals.

I kind of agree with OP. I feel like a kind of techno-luddism would be best. Living in a simpler, sustainable house, that uses high-end tech to be efficient and automated. Using neural implants, you could control your house.

Life would be simpler, but better.

I'm biased because I hate social networking, but whatevs.

>>2549907
>Do you find it hard to understand that 'tool' and 'technology' is a useless distinction?

I find it very useful. How is collapsing everything into one very broad category more useful?

>Fundamentally they are the same thing - a creation of our own mind used to some end to make life easier or perform some kind of function that is otherwise not capable of being performed by our bodies or minds.

Fundamental all animals are the same thing -- living beings. We should stop talking about cats, or dogs. These are all just animals.

>>2549922
>You could use this logic to take anything you want, anytime you want.
Mars for the TRS, because nobody else is using it.
I am not your enemy. I just want to recreate the Australia Project as closely as possible. I don't even want to be in a position of power after the formation of the TRS. I want to have a holiday and then get started on the space program.
>And if I followed you on your scheme, you would eventually use it on me.
No.

why don't we live like native indians? smoke all day, fuck all night. the only thing we have to watch out for are crazy white men fucking things up like killing all our buffalo, spreading diseases, and spreading 'democracy' and christianity all over the world...o wait...

>>2549918

>Look at people who live to 30 without modern dentistry and tell me that's not worse.
Modern dentistry is needed because of modern dietary habits. The ancients had no need of it. They did not consume vast quantities of sugar!

>>2549927
You need to change that term. Techno-luddism is an oxymoron.

>>2549918

>Or living with a hernia instead of having it repaired.
I think you underestimate the ancient doctors.

>>2549926
Yeah, I've thought this at points, but I'm going to have to say it's a bad idea.

You should read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild

>It makes all of our lives so much more stressful.
I'll enjoy doing calculations with pen and paper.

>>2549940
You're deluded. Try actually getting familiar with people in primitive conditions instead of extrapolating from your prejudices.

I've helped translate for makeshift dental clinics in Bolivia run for just a few days by visiting dentists who volunteered as a charity. Some of the people who showed up live very, very simple lives. And you know what? I've never seen so many rotten teeth pulled in an hour.

>>2549965

>calculations
Is that all you think about?

>>2549943
I think you underestimate their lack of antibiotics. Enjoy dying after minor surgery.

>>2549974

>I've never seen so many rotten teeth pulled in an hour.
Selection bias. You were just looking at screwed up teeth.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Bolivians were drinking coke. Traditional diets are hard to find these days.

>>2549936
I am revulsed by your choice to steal Tasmania instead of pay for it. And yet you claim it's OK because "the Australians did it too."

>>2549936
If you'll steal land from Australia, you'll steal from me too.

>>2549987
Fair enough. But I still hold that you're ignoring the reality - dental health doesn't just "happen" as long as you don't drink soda.

Don't pretend that living in the Amazon rainforest is some kind of paragon ideal of human health. You cannot possibly be that deluded.

>>2549977
I also enjoy being able to see clearly.

>>2549974
(cont)
I also helped with a charity clinic that matched people up with donated prescription glasses. Women who couldn't do sew because they couldn't see clearly, kids who couldn't see the chalkboard at school, etc.

>>2549914
If you're actually planning to take a national park and develop on it with bullshit sprawl, why would Australia accept the TRS just for use of open source factory technology that they already have? These automated factories will be prolific throughout the globe, making them of little value due to abundance.

There is no compelling reason for Australia to tolerate an invasion of their national park, and their military would respond predictably.

Just pay for land you idiot.

>>2550020

> I also enjoy being able to see clearly.
Glasses actually worsen vision.

>>2550009
>Don't pretend that living in the Amazon rainforest is some kind of paragon ideal of human health.
It's not perfect, but it's pretty good.

Ancient medicine may not compete with modern health care on every level, but the positives associated with the ancient way of living far outweigh the negatives.

>>2549896
Yeah well I just threw a spear.
I certainly initiated this behavior, but it does not need my continued input to keep flying.

>>2550056

Your disingenuity is almost charming.

>>2550048
>Glasses actually worsen vision.
Becoming dependent on glasses is not a problem if your vision was inadequate without glasses anyway.

Anyway, the pic is an loa loa worm. In someone's eye. Parasites!

>>2550048
>the positives associated with the ancient way of living far outweigh the negatives.
Then go do it. Later.

>>2550048
Actually it's the degenerative myopia.
I also enjoy not having to shit and piss in a bush. Toilets are wonderful.

I remember my first computer too, OP

Shamanism and Mushroom cults are awesome.
Dying a few years after having successfully raised a child seems perfectly fine for me.

>>2550079

>Then go do it. Later.
The ancient way of living was communal. It isn't something a single man can just jump into.

tech is good if you use it as a tool.
but it ruins your life if you live everyday for technology, if the first thing you do at the morning is turn on your computer and check the same pages every hour.

i know my life would be better if i stop living through technology and consuming the world as fast as we are doing.

we are acumulating karma and we will pay.

>>2550081

>I also enjoy not having to shit and piss in a bush. Toilets are wonderful.
What are you, a baby?

I second OP. Sometimes I look up into the night sky and I wish the city I live in just disappeared.

>>2550106
Being able to shit and piss in a toilet makes me a baby?
I also enjoy the convenience of refrigerators.

I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. I did not wish to live what was not life, living is so dear; nor did I wish to practise resignation, unless it was quite necessary. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life, to live so sturdily and Spartan-like as to put to rout all that was not life, to cut a broad swath and shave close, to drive life into a corner, and reduce it to its lowest terms, and, if it proved to be mean, why then to get the whole and genuine meanness of it, and publish its meanness to the world; or if it were sublime, to know it by experience, and be able to give a true account of it in my next excursion. For most men, it appears to me, are in a strange uncertainty about it, whether it is of the devil or of God, and have somewhat hastily concluded that it is the chief end of man here to "glorify God and enjoy him forever."

I'm just going to go upstate or somewhere far enough so that I can spend weeks w/o seeing people but still able to go back to society in case of emergency.

Your ancestors thought life was shit. You think life is shit.

Getting rid of technology isn't going change anything. Advancing technology isn't.

>>2550183

>Advancing technology isn't going to change anything.
Then why do we do it?

ITT: People who bought Avatar hook, line and sinker.

You want to feel more in touch with nature? Good for you. But stop buying the propaganda.

unabomber manifesto anyone?

Says you, op. I'm living the life of fucking leisure. I get to eat good food, and I don't have to kill it myself unless I want to. Got me a goddamn computer that I use to browse these internets.