/sci/ - Science & Math

>>2538376

I work hard because science is fun and interesting, did that ever come to your mind?

No, I will be working in a lab, maybe even teaching after my education, I am working hard to avoid a cubicle job.

>Why not follow at least the evolutionary imperative of reproducing and satisfying our brain with senses of pleasure and joy?

Why do you think I'm working for a job in a field I love? My work isn't everything, but it's a big part of life and I want it to be the best I can make it.

You're telling me that because we are insignificant that we should all give up. well, I don't give a shit about my insignificance because I WILL be dead within 100 or so years from now, so I'm going to fucking well enjoy it.

in·sig·nif·i·cant
–adjective
1.
unimportant, trifling, or petty: Omit the insignificant details.
2.
too small to be important: an insignificant sum.
3.
of no consequence, influence, or distinction: a minor, insignificant bureaucrat.
4.
without weight of character; contemptible: an insignificant fellow.
5.
without meaning; meaningless: insignificant sounds.
–noun
6.
a word, thing, or person without significance.

Which definition is being used in this picture?

Fuck off anti-human scum.

Have some HUMANITY, FUCK YEAH! on your way out.

Does it really matter if you life 5 or 80 years?

I lead my life in service of the empire .

Hail America.

>>2538376

You're saying it would all be worth it if it lasted forever.

Can you not see how that would be worse?

Congratulation you have found out what god was showing us when he destroyed the tower of babel. Human effort accomplishes nothing.

The only thing that will matter is spirit and life.

So nothing that isn't infinite is worth anything? How does that even make a little bit of sense?

And one of them is eternal.

>>2538422

What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

>>2538422

The world will pass away along with everything you own, build or save up for. Keep your treasures in heaven.

You compare the significant of our lives to some imaginary, pseudo religious perspective of life, as something that is eternal, infinitely important, etc.
Comparing something that is real to something that is not real will inevitably lead to the real thing being inferior
I'm not sad that i won't life forever for the same reason I'm not sad that i won't run around wonderland with the Cheshire Cat.
Because it's not real

A ancient secret revealed..
If you carve your face into stone you will become immortal. The form of the stone isn't as important as the assosication the human mind creates with the stone. Without the mind the statue is just that, a piece of stone. But with the mind it is a powerful tool of one way communication with a long dead ego.

Use this knowledge wisely

>the only meaning things have is that which I apply to them
>my life's success is measured in how many women I boned
>mfw

Ahh, OP, you sound 14.

>>2538435
Not pseudo religious, Christian.

You state that it is not true. That is fair but remember the only evidence you will receive is the scripture. It is you who decides your fate. Not God he is offering you salvation it is fair to say no.

>you will die
Stop the fucking presses. This guy might be onto something

>>2538448
So adults are not allowed to engage in valid and deconstructive philosophical discussion?

>mfw ignorance is strength.

>the only evidence you will receive is the scripture.
Well, that's kinda of a shitty deal, really
But, god made me in such a way that he know i wouldn't buy that bullshit
So, I'm really just doing exactly what he wanted if i don't believe, and who am i to challenges the will of god?

>>2538463
>philosophical discussion
>/sci/

Pick one.

"The world will pass away along with everything you own, build or save up for. Keep your treasures in heaven."
>>2538435


Here I will fix it for you since you know there is no possibility that God can/does exist.


The world will pass away along with everything you own, build or save up for.

i would like to understand. the thing that separates me from the animals is not my ability to jizz. its the ability to understand. right now, im not some formless soul inhabiting a human. being a human is the very essence of me. and the very essence of being human is understanding.

so, i like understanding things. its useful for when i am alive. plan your life based on living, not dying.

>>2538376
>implying only things which last forever can be meaningful.

>>2538465

The will of God is for you to acknowledge him as your creator and love him as he loves you.

To claim he wants you to go to hell is wrong in my perspective.

He wants you to reach out to him he didn't create your preferences.

>>2538463
It's the kind of thing you fret about when you're young, terrified of having an unhappy future.

>>2538486
>>>/x/

disregardfemalesacquirecurrency.tiff

But really go read some Teilhard or Soleri. The bridge between matter and spirit is matter becoming spirit.

>>2538487
No, it's the kind of thing you stop thinking about when you're too scared shitless to think about it.

>>2538486
>he didn't create your preferences.
Well, then who did? Isn't God all powerful?
Didn't he make my soul?
Are you questioning his almightiness?

>>2538498

Lol

>implying the scripture claims he controls you
>Implying he controls you.
>Implying he didn't give us free will.

>>2538490

Haters gon hate.

>>Implying he didn't give us free will.
Well, he's all knowing, isn't he?
So, he exactly knew i would land in hell as he made me, didn't he?
I never really had a chance, or did I?
In fact, theres no way for any human being to change the fate that God foresaw, otherwise he wouldn't be all knowing.
So, God makes Billions of people who will never believe, knowing exactly they will never believe, thus damning all of them to an eternity in hell.
Kind of a huge dick if you ask me.

>>2538511
Why do you interpret that as hate? A helpful soul is directing you to where your discussion belongs.

>>2538520
This argument is faulty for obvious reasons. The concept of god is irrational in nature (i.e. it allows for paradoxes), so don't try to confute it with logic.

>>2538502
>Implying this is valid and deconstructive philosophical discussion, and not brainwashed christfaggoty.

>>2538521

A "helpfull soul" wouldn't sage the thread.... twice.

Wasn nothing helpful about it enough said. if you don't want to contribute to the conversation. go to another one. Again haters gon hate

>>2538520

A mother is pregnant. She knows the child will be a thief and a liar. Does she kill it? no she loves it with all her heart.

>>2538532

>implying your not brainwashed

>>2538530

So baisically... Don't use logic? Sounds like a plan.

>>2538530
>so don't try to confute it with logic.
So, and that's the entire argument of yours
You appeal to emotion alone in your first post, the fear of death and uncertainty of the future.
Yet, logic and reason, the one things that separate us from animals and are the cornerstone of everything humanity has achieved, is whisked away, for the very reason that god is illogical and that it is unreasonable to believe.
Then again, why did God give us this ability?
Of course, there's no explanation, i'm using that evil "logic" again.
Pic related, it's your argument

I would ask you to give me all your money, OP, since it doesn't matter, but you're clearly 14 and don't have any money.

>>2538548
Faulty argument, more correct would be
"A Mother can choose if her child will be a thief and liar"
God made us, we didn't drop here without his doing.

>>2538560
>>2538561
Yes, that is the foundation from which you work if you are a "true" believer. You can't both have logic and an omnipotent being.

>>2538565

Again with the sage. If you don't like this conversation, leave you're trying to silence others something I have no respect for.

>Why do you live?
why do you ask a question that you know we can't answer and if anyone answers you should know that you'll see flaws in his reasons and be forced to disregard them

but then again you asked so here is my reason
i don't really know why i live
i never wanted this life
i sometimes think that it's just some kind of game or a dream and this is not real
in any case i'm here, one thing i know is that i'm going to die, just like everyone else before me
so why not stay and see what happens
i can only wonder if this really is just a game, a dream or if there is some other reality and i don't have any memory of it, i have to do my best in at least one of them
but there are times that i wonder
are these thoughts not just my pre-built instincts
why would i need to do my best in any world, isn't this just a human urge to live, why would it matter
why do i need to know about the universe, isn't this just another human instinct we call curiosity
sometimes i just long for the end
in the end nothing really matters
i don't know why but it tends to calm me even thinking about it

>>2538536
As I said, your discussion belongs on /x/. I'm just helping you get it off the front page.

>>2538569

But yet he tells us how to be good... like the mother.. and we don't listen. Something WE chose to do.

I live because my brain is hard-wired to keep me living. There are no "endgame", and it doesn't have to be.

>>2538548
Except that in this case the mother made the child a thief and a liar, then gave it infinite punishment for being so.

inb4 "free will" - you don't know what that means

>>2538582
And he already knows beforehand what you're going to choose.

But sure, your viewpoint is nice: I don't like the idea of death, so there is a god.

>>2538589

Where does scripture say God puts all of our thoughts into our head?

>>2538592

Not my viewpoint. Sorry.

>>2538598

It's a necessary consequence of there being an omnipotent creator of the universe.

>>2538592

A mother gives her children a bowl of rotting feces or a bowl of cake to eat. She knows which one they are going to pick, doesn't make them any less of will. Except god is a little better at predicting things than the mother obviously

>>2538602
Oh I see, you don't believe in God. My fault then.

>>2538607

Tell me how? And also you said earlier I had no idea what the saying free will means.. please explain.

>>2538612
>Except god doesn't predict anything, but knows with complete certainty, obviously.

>>2538376
an extra layer can go in OP's pic.

you are 1 species, of millions of species.

(put it in between planet tier, and human tier, so it is step 2)

>>2538602
>Not my viewpoint
He is all knowing, aka HE KNOWS EVERYTHING
He knows who killed Kennedy, he knows how much a Wood the Woodpecker pecks, he knows how your asshole tastes and he knows if you are going to hell, long before you ever where made.
And he made you anyway
You can never escape from it, you can't change you fate

>>2538615

>Implying I must believe in God as a result of fearing death. I love and believe in God with all my heart.

I never found you asking me why I believe in God. A little presumptuous.

>>2538411
that way you could leave a trace that you were alive and it would be forever evident
whereas in a finite universe it doesn't matter how old the universe was once it ends all traces of what happened inside are gone, time and information stop making sense

>>2538612
If the mother exactly knows i'm going to eat the feces, it's something really horrible to put them there

>>2538625

You don't know you place yet. You could very well become a Christian one day. Just as I could become an atheist.

>>2538630
Yet your main argument seems to be that life is pointless without god. Funny thing that.

>Why do we live?

Well I live to have sex and reproduce to keep my genes flowing. I study hard to get a good job because it is one way of becoming an alpha male and thus increasing my chance of buttsex. Die, then let my chillins do what I did.

>>2538638
Fuck, i'm almost certain you are a troll
The Point is not if we know, the point is that god knows

>>2538622
That questionable semantic distinction doesn't defeat the logic of the analogy - knowing what someone will choose doesn't take away that person's ability to choose. God knowing what decision a person will make doesn't mean it wasn't that person's own decision.

>>2538646
lol, you got me.

>>2538641

To me life wouldn't be pointless if there was no God. But since I believe there is. Than there is something far greater than anything on earth.

>>2538647
So the clockwork has free will?

>>2538620

If there was an omniscient creator of the universe, then everything that will happen in that universe is known by that creator at the time of creation, thus effectively creating not just the beginning of the universe but the whole thing, as a 4 dimensional object that includes every event, including you being a thief.

"I didn't kill you. The bullet killed you. I just pulled the trigger."

>>2538646

God knows what I am going to do. therefore it's his fault he ever created me.

>>2538654
From that point of view, the OP makes no sense.

>>2538654
if you truly think god exists, then an hero.
get to heaven faster, this world is nothing compared to it.
you wanna be in heaven as soon as possible right?

>>2538646

God knows what I am going to do. therefore it's his fault he ever created me knowing i am going to hell you yourself don't even know yet.

>>2538657
Huh? A "clockwork" is not a sapient being. It's completely irrelevant.

>>2538665
Where do you pull the line between sapient and non-sapient?

>>2538647
That it was that person's decision doesn't make it not god's decision, since that person and everything about them was intentionally created by god.

If I design a killer robot knowing that it will choose you as a target, I'm a murderer.

>>2538668
*sentient
*non-sentient

>>2538663

The question is does God want me to kill myself?
And do I want to leave? When I leave there is no coming back I want every second I can have on this rock. I love my life and want to help others.

>>>/x/

>>2538672
Where do you pull the line between sentient and non-sentient?

I'm waiting for the gods to come back

>>2538674

Please save yourself the time. and post something science or math related you hypocrite.

How is this still on the first page?

>>2538668
You're committing a line drawing fallacy. A clock mechanism is not capable of making any sort of decision. It doesn't matter where the "line" is, because the example comes nowhere near it. If it could make decisions then it would be free in those decisions, but it can't, so the question is meaningless.

>>2538376
No one dies you faggot. I'll just be chilling in heaven, while you retard atheists get assraped forever in hell.

Christians: ∞
Atheists and all other "religions": -∞

>>2538683
because you're wasting your time.

>>2538686
It's hard to argue with you when you don't answer questions, but ok, then It'll take a little bit longer: So you believe bacteria to have free will?

Your biological father created you. If you commit a crime should he pay the price for it?

>>2538686

And what is the difference between your decision and my computer's decision?

>>2538686
It's actually not a fallacy, I am pointing out that if we assume god to exist, then we are to him as clockworks are to us.

>>2538673
>And do I want to leave? When I leave there is no coming back I want every second I can have on this rock. I love my life and want to help others.

but thats like being in a really long queue for disney land or something, you are offered a free pass through, and can walk past and go straight in. why not take it?
why stay in the queue, it is nowhere near as fun, i mean sure, the queue is alright, and you are standing with friends and family, but they will meet you inside soon enough. you can wait for them in disneyland/heaven
...in this analogy.

>>2538693
To the degree they weigh various considerations and make decisions based upon those, they do. Bacteria exhibit various tropisms and environmentally-dependant behaviours, so I guess they do make "decisions" of a sort. God knows whether a bacterium will move one way or another, but it's still "free" to consider its environment.

this could have been a good philosophical thread if it wasn't for all the trolls

and OP is not a kid or if he was he has definitely grown to ask such complex questions

sorry OP but even the wisest of men can't answer these questions
everyone has to come up with his own answers
there is no right or wrong answer

Why do I do what I do?

Just something I want to do I guess. I want my degree, I want to make a difference in the world (hurr durr), I want a wife, I want kids.

Yes, in the end it is all for nothing. It is interesting to acknowledge that, but it changes nothing.

>>2538695

My biological father did not create everything that I will do in my life, so the analogy is invalid.

>>2538705
>Bacteria exhibit various tropisms and environmentally-dependant behaviours
Clockworks do as well.

>>2538707

samefag

>>2538698

It would bring me endless joy to help just one person in the queue on to the ride.

>>2538674
>philosophy
>paranormal
hurrrrrrrr

Let me tell you something OP. I live because I am NOT insignificant. My life is NOT in vain. You want to know why? Because I was born, I went to school, I learnt my values and now I work and contribute to society while attending University. I flip burgers for a living and will do so for several more years. When I graduate I will get a job, get a wife, get a family and I will die with only a tiny fraction of a fraction even knowing I existed.
But I existed. And in my existance I changed hundreds of thousands of millions of people's lives. In my job I may only discover 0.00001% of a cure for cancer but that is 0.00001% more than we had yesterday. In my life I contributed to society. I WAS society and as that society I facilitated every life saved, every SCIENCE! made, everything - even if only by 0.00001%.
And in a hundred years nobody will know who I was. I will be forgotten. I will be just another man from just another time - like so many others.
But I may be forgotten by the future, but I BUILT that future. My LIFE built that future. Just by EXISTING I have shaped the lives of everyone who will be born after me.
I made a tiny fraction of a fraction of a difference but I made a difference. And in the end, no matter how hard my life is, no matter how much pain I go through and how little or how much I get done; I got something done.

They won't know my name. They won't care that I existed. But I will always be here, in the past. Forgotten, unmourned, but here.
And that is a world of difference from not here at all.

>>2538717
>Implying religion isn't paranormal.

>>2538717
>Have thread about how life is pointless unless there is a god.
>philosophy.

>>2538710

If God made decisions for you there would be no reason to teach us otherwise (the bible) the bible does not teach us that we are puppets of God with no free will.

>>2538713
I don't know what you mean by "clockworks." If you mean the mechanism of a clock, there are no decisions made by it: it has one action (tick) and always "chooses" that action unless it runs out of energy. The question of whether it has freedom in its decision making is utterly and completely empty, because there are no decisions.

>>2538719

Yeah, but your being stupid. The cold death means inevitably noone will ever give a shit about you or your research because noone will be.

>>2538726
see
>>2538697

You are arguing my case.

>>2538719

That tiny fraction of a difference will be wiped away along with Every. Single. Human. Acheivment.

>>2538722
>implying philosophy is religion
>weak trolling attempt
durrrrr

>>2538725

That the Bible says so does not make it not a logical contradiction. If the universe was created by an omniscient being, then that being is 100% responsible for every action I do.

>>2538736
Stop using logic. This is religion.

>>2538719
d'awww.


"Mankind doesn't need warfare and bloodshed to prove itself. Everyday life can provide honour and valour. Let's hope that from now on this country can find its heroes in smaller places. In the most ordinary of deeds."
--John Smith

>>2538734
>>2538727
>Implying

>>2538731
What case is that? A clockwork is not like a human, because humans do not mechanically repeat one behaviour regardless of the circumstances.

>>2538736
Why? so your saying when he says don't kill another and you kill HE should be charged?

>>2538716
so in my analogy, presumably atheists are people in the queue who dont have a tciket, but dont realise it. so when they get to the end of the queue, they cant go into disneyland/heaven.

...and you think your purpose in life.the queue is to try to get as many people tickets as you can.
...so, you are just gonna try to convert atheists all your life?
lol, w/e.

>>2538735
>uses Biblical arguments, discussing the Christian god
>implying its not about religion

>>2538745
>humans do not mechanically repeat one behaviour regardless of the circumstances
Neither do clocks, or any machanical system for that matter. You are arguing in circles, saying that humans have free will because they make decision.

As I said, if god exists and is omnipotent, then we will be to him as clockworks are to us. He knows what makes us "tick", if you will.

>>2538746

Charged? Like in a court of law? Don't be ridiculous. But yes, if there is an omnipotent, omniscient god, and a murder occurs anywhere, then that god is a murderer.

>>2538748

If they except it, yes. I am a slave to Jesus and I will be as much like him as I can. His teachings are the wisest I have ever heard. I'll live life telling people about it but in a polite way. Just live by example.

>>2538746
Yes of course. If I shoot a gun at someone and then tell the bullet not to kill the guy, I'm still the one taking the blame.

>>2538770

How is that anything like what God has done? He gave you life and you can tell me that there are no consequences for your actions? That is ridiculous.

>>2538774
So I give the bullet life, and it has not responsibility for its actions? That is ridiculous.

>>2538766

So you're completely close minded about your magic book maybe not being right. So what's the point of anyone talking to you?

>>2538765

So your saying there is no such thing as sin.

>>2538774

There are certainly consequences for the bullet's actions.

>>2538762
>Neither do clocks, or any machanical system for that matter.
This is becoming absurd. I'm not going to further argue with you about whether or not a clock mechanism is different from a human as regards decision making capability, because the answer is obvious. If you think not, you're in denial.

>You are arguing in circles, saying that humans have free will because they make decision.
Actually, I never said that. I said that it is meaningless to ask the question of free will for a system that makes no decisions. Free will in what? Free will to make non-existent choices?

>As I said, if god exists and is omnipotent, then we will be to him as clockworks are to us.
In what way?

>He knows what makes us "tick", if you will.
Yes, you've been saying that this means we have no free will, but have yet to provide any actual support for this position. All you've done is to ask a meaningless question similar to "If a rock could speak, would it have a french accent?"

>>2538779

You are talking to me are you not? Discussion is a good thing. If you mean close minded as in secure in my position than yes I am.

>>2538786

Define "sin."

It's 42, you idiots.

>>2538787

Now tell me does this bullet get to chose to not kill him? you have the choice to not sin. you have the power to turn to God, don't fool yourself.

>>2538376
Torture yourself for 50 or so years that you plan on living and tell me that it does't matter because you're going to die anyway and won't remember it.

I take your point dude, but I think that, for most of us, we try to succeed and achieve because it feels good, no matter how fleetingly.

>>2538750
Just because 4chan is the worst place to have this kind of conversation doesn't mean philosophy=religion. You people should get out of the house more.

I believe there is a natural balance in every aspect of this world, not ID faggotry, but shit works yeah? This for me is amazing on its own.

I believe the meaning of our lives is to reach for the stars, expand and colonise, because that's the natural thing to do. Unfortunately people don't want to go to space, they prefer watching tv and looking stylish, mimicking celebrities etc . If the people who lived before 1950 saw us today they would be greatly disappoint.

>>2538790
The point is that you say that clocks don't have free will be cause they don't make any decisions. Then you go on to say that humans make decisions, hence they have free will.

From god's point of view, humans don't make any decisions either. They just "tick on".

That you fail to see the analogy suggests that you either
1) Don't understand what it means to be omnipotent
2) Are a blatant troll

>>2538799
>you have the choice to not sin.

But what you choose has already been chosen by god, by making you. Exactly like the path of the bullet has already been chosen by me, by pulling the trigger.

>>2538790
>I said that it is meaningless to ask the question of free will for a system that makes no decisions

This is the circular part I was talking about, by the way.

>>2538792

Sin is whatever separates us from God going against Gods will, causing harm ect. Sinning against an infinite being requires infinite punishment respectively.

>>2538809

What makes you think this?

>>2538812

Going against the will of an omnipotent being is impossible by definition.

>>2538809

When you go outside, is god telling you to? or are you DECIDING to do it?

>>2538826
Why?

>>2538376
The way I see it.

I've already been dead for BILLIONS of years ever since the beggining of the universe and only recently acquired life 24 years ago.

It doesn't matter how lame my life is, being lame and boring is still better than the infinity of the time I will be dead that is yet to come.

>>2538832
I am deciding to, and my decision was determined by god.

>>2538806
>The point is that you say that clocks don't have free will be cause they don't make any decisions. Then you go on to say that humans make decisions, hence they have free will.
Please read. Please look at my post you're replying to and read what it says. I never said anything about whether or not a clock has free will. I said the question is meaningless for a clock, cannot be posed about a clock, because there is no capacity for decision. I explicitly denied making the claim you have again put in my mouth in that second sentence.

>From god's point of view, humans don't make any decisions either.
This is not a question of point of view. Humans do make decisions. I am just now deciding what words to type on the basis of what you have written. I have a capability to process this information and select my words.

>That you fail to see the analogy suggests <ad hominem>
yeah whatever

>>2538835

...because that's what omnipotent means? That will = reality. If it doesn't, then you're not omnipotent.

>>2538839
When you go outside is he saying GO OUTSIDE?
Or did he give you the option to by giving you life?

>>2538852

His will is that we DECIDE for ourselves to come to him. In all his power he gave us will.

>>2538852
Argument by redefinition of terms

>>2538842

Obviously you're a very literal minded person. If the "clock" part is causing you trouble, use a computer instead. Or a robot. A robot makes decisions about how to navigate terrain.

>>2538860
How is this not possible?

>>2538855

No, he's not saying go outside. He doesn't have to. Just like I don't have to tell the bullet to keep flying.

>>2538860
Yup, if god is omnipotent, then every decision you make is his will. It's his will that you decide to "come to him." It's his will that someone else does not.

>>2538881

Therefore you have a will of your own. The bullet in this analogy can stop ANY TIME it wants to.

>>2538894


"It's his will that someone else does not."
Not true. It's his will that they decide for themselves. He would prefer that they chose him but if they don't than that is their decision.

>>2538899
But whether it wants to is the will of the omnipotent being. My decision making process is analogous to the bullets path.

>>2538910
It's his will that they DECIDE not to.

See how that works?

>>2538469
I choose both.
We are intellectuals and as such would and should like to engage in intellectual debate not restricted to science.
I am a physics undergrad that enjoys far more than just a discussion of physics and math.

Specialization is for insects.

>>2538376
Existence itself has no meaning therefore I need to give it one. Any hope that may seem to be there is an illusion people create to ignore the overwhelming despair right in front of them. There is no way to win so I am resolved not to lose. Afterlife or no, I am going to enjoy my time alive and play this little game. I'll keep playing as long as I can and at the end of it I'm not going allow any regret. Stop being an idiot anon, that despair is there but you yourself are so small and insignificant that it does not matter at all. You cannot win this game so I suggest you enjoy it while you still can.

>>2538917

You are telling me that If there is a Christian God he wants people to sin? Come on, really?

>>2538842
>This is not a question of point of view. Humans do make decisions. I am just now deciding what words to type on the basis of what you have written. I have a capability to process this information and select my words.
My argument is exactly that humans don't make decisions, from god's point of view. Not anymore than clocks make decisions from my point of view.'

>I never said anything about whether or not a clock has free will. I said the question is meaningless for a clock, cannot be posed about a clock, because there is no capacity for decision.
From god's point of view, humans don't have any capacity for decision. It is all laid out. The human will do as god knows he will. Just like the clock will do as I know it will.

Again
>Humans do make decisions.
then you conclude that humans have free will. That is circular logic, as I have pointed out many times now.

>>2538910

If I write a computer program that makes decisions based on circumstances, and I know ahead of time exactly what circumstances the program will face, then its decisions are my decisions.

>>2538933
Yes, really. That's not a problem for me, since I don't believe in a Christian god.

>>2538870
Yes, and having programmed a robot to make decisions about terrain navigation through some method does not deprive it of the ability to weigh its inputs and perform its internal transformation of those inputs to decide its movements. This is "free" in a sense, but the robot is limited, lacking the complex capabilities of a conscious being and having no moral agency.

>>2538842
>I am just now deciding what words to type on the basis of what you have written. I have a capability to process this information and select my words.

Just like the clock has the capability to keep ticking.

>>2538932

That's a good view on life. But IF you have the chance a moment before death you have a good chance of saying or thinking forgive me God I believe. Salvation can come at anytime, So can death.

>>2538948

What do you believe?

>>2538950
The robot is no different from a clock in this sense. If you agree that a robot has free will, it follows that a pendulum also has free will.

>>2538948

I lold when 25 sages later we're on front page and you're still trying...

>>2538964
A pendulum makes no decisions, so the question is meaningless. I guess, following the convention of set theory, if you're asking if the empty set of decisions made by a pendulum all have the property of being free, then the answer is yes. This is a sort of vacuous truth.

>>2538950

Alright, so it's making decisions. Good. Now, suppose I both programmed the robot, and I knew exactly what terrain it would encounter, and I knew that its decision would result in crushing you to death.

>moral agency

I can program a moral agency, sure. I'm a godlike programmer. I can't fail at anything. So if the robot has a flawed morality, then I made it so intentionally.

>>2538968

Trying what? Saging doesn't push a thread down, it just fails to bump it.

>>2538979
The pendulum makes decisions in the same sense that a robot (of the agorementioned type) makes decisions. The pendulum chooses to swing back and forth, and will change its decision if its environment changes.

Do we really have to die? In the next few decades humans might be able to become immortal. Gene therapy? Transfer mind to the PC? Ti'l that becomes true I'll be earning some big money to be able to pay for it

>>2538989 I assumed you were trying to keep the thread down which isn't happening. But you are.


>>2538948

Well I have to go. But I really did enjoy talking to you. I hope someday you can come on that ride with me. Who knows? Maybe you will maybe you won't. Your decision ;)

>>2538955
Actually I'd prefer it if God just ended my existence right then and there but seeing as how reality seems to work in ways that go over my ideals, I'll just roll with whatever comes my way. IMO an eternity in hell is well worth dying without regrets. Hope I do get to a chance to converse with God at some point though, I have a few questions I'd like to ask.

>>2538982
You're conflating two entirely different questions: the question of whether the robot is free in its actions and the question of whether or not what you have done is immoral. The latter question - asked about God - is an old one unrelated to anything we have so far been discussing. It doesn't really involve free will.

>>2539017
His point stands, we are to god what a robot is to us

Also, see
>>2538993

>>2538933
No, I think he put all these needs and them make them forbidden just for shit and giggles.

>Why do you live?
Beats dying

>What is your endgame in this?
See the Singularity or die trying.

>No matter what you do in life, you will die.
Yeah, it's not very likely we can learn to beat thermodynamics

>It won't matter if you come to be the richest and most person in the world, seen everything, sensed everything, explored everything - you will die. Probably the worst tragedy of our pathetic little civilization.
You still get to be richest and the most, see everything, explore everything, and sense everything. That part's cool.

>Why do you work hard?
To get stuff.

>Why do you spend half of your life educating yourself so you can end up in a cubicle where your soul will be sucked out?
Because then you'll receive a greater salary than you would for having an uneducated sould sucked? Also, learning is fun, science is interesting, and if you disagree you can fuck off.

>Why not follow at least the evolutionary imperative of reproducing and satisfying our brain with senses of pleasure and joy?
Ain't no genes tell me what to do. Although I do seek pleasure and avoid pain...

>>2539247
>Isn't ignorance the true bliss and the stupid people about whose stupidity educated tend to rage so hard about are, although they do not know it, the really smart ones?
Nope. For one, raging makes us feel good to be so superior. Also, see above re science being interesting.

>And don't come with your life extension/transhumanism bullshit. Even if we don't blow ourself up before such technology exists, does it really matter if you live 80 or 1000 years?
It matters 920 years to me. Does it matter to you if you live 8 or 100 years?
>Will it matter if we colonize our galaxy? One galaxy out of billions?
Yup
>Will it matter if, in the the most improbable scenario of all, our violent and selfish race becomes some sort of gigantic hivemind after singularity kicked in?
Yup.

>Will not even this end sometime?
Yup. This quiz is easy!

>Isn't absolutely every, no matter what, completely and utterly pointless?
Sure, but it's a cool ride while it lasted.

>Not just on the scale of our little blue planet, but also on the large scale of everything?
Sure. It's pointless. Pointlessness and caring about pointlessness are also pointless, or did I just BLOW YOUR MIND?

tl;dr: Try some SSRIs.

>>2539247
>science is interesting, and if you disagree you can fuck off.
>mfw Dawkins reference

>>2539247
>mfw Dawkins reference

Isn't science on the breakthrough of immortality?

We can already create new organs from our own cells and there's the Manhattan Beach Project.

>>2541574
>>2541701

What's wrong with Dawkins? I'm a Christian and I love the man.

http://www.manhattanbeachproject.com/

>>2541745
Anyone who believes in that shit is a faggot. Aubrey is just a faggot who can't accept that his elderly wife is going to die and leave him lonely.

The real reason OP is a faggot is that the human soul wouldn't aspire for meaning only in eternity if eternity were not a real thing. The life of the universe may be finite, but it only exists to be a breeding ground for the life of the soul.

>>2541789
Ad hominem, ad hominem everywhere

>>2538376
I work hard because it increases the enjoyment I have in my life, and because I know that I am so small. And the only way to overcome my minuscule size is to affect the lives of others in profound ways.

>>2538376

Faggot nihilist detected. I happen to enjoy life and struggle.

>>2541789
>Anyone who believes in that shit is a faggot.

It's based on real science, homo.

>>2541745
How legit is this project? I always hear about it on this board, but I never know if it's a sure thing when 2029 comes. Plus humans will probably live forever some other way since we can now replish our organs.

>>2541858
>It's based on real science, homo.
Aubrey is a computer technician. 0.001% of real biologists take him seriously

>>2541874
>implying computer technicians aren't scientists.

0/10, gtfo.

>>2541796
this is 4chan, it can't be helped

>>2541867
http://www.hplusmagazine.com/articles/forever-young/manhattan-beach-project-end-aging-2029

http://www.sens.org/sens-research/research-themes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3329065877451441972#

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101128/full/news.2010.635.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov/28/scientists-reverse-ageing-mice-humans


He actually learned all this biology shit from his wife, and has a pretty solid platform of how to go about defeating aging. What I think will happen however is that he won't actually succeed, but simply the existence of his project will spur more research by other people/corporations into the same field resulting in accelerated development.

Reversing aging in mice was predicted by Aubrey to HAPPEN IN 2025. Here we are, a whole 16 years early.

>>2541915
So will I die before we defeat death or... ?
Birthyear: 1990

>>2541931
You will survive.

>>2541959
Except he'll be old.

>>2541969
>Implying age matters, when you take on a perfect robot body, a gleaming construct of impervious metal and plastic.
THE NEW HUMANITY IS AGELESS.

>>2541959
[citation needed]

>>2541969
Anon >>2541996 makes a good point. Once ageing is stopped, the focus will shift. Curing disease and whatnot.

What we'll probably get are gigantic increases in the fields of prosthetics and bio-augmentation.

Look at the (albeit fictional) universes of sci-fi. Many of these include characters that only look a third of their actual age due to medical advances.

Shit will be so cash. '92 fag here. Looking forward to an eternal future.

>>2541959
We will all survive.
The first generation to live for multiple hundreds of years.

Ours is the generation that will witness the coming of age of the Human Species.
mfw

>Once ageing is stopped, the focus will shift. Curing disease and whatnot.
Niggers don't know about brain in a jar.
Why cure the Body of disease when you can cure the Man of the Body?

>>2542064
That will only put man into a fictional universe.

>>2542057
>implying other generations didn't think they were

>seen everything, sensed everything, explored everything

Dude, that was a sick life you had, then.

>>2542064

If the "jar" is a mechanically augmented body, and the brain is only figuratively "placed" in said "jar".

>>2542068
>he thinks brain-in-a-jar is the same as neural uploading

>>2542085
The Matrix is a brain in a vat story, artard.

Why do you care? Why are you looking for answers? We're all going to die anyway, aren't we? Nothing matters.