/sci/ - Science & Math

well not on 4chan for a start.

but basically you need to read.

you need to read both sides of every argument and be able to point out both the merits and flaws of each.

start with WW2 and hitler because this is the best example it is clear in that there was a winner and loser and then you need to objectify set yourself into and arbitrary point where you can assess the criteria for both arguments of what the war was about from all angles.

start with a simple argument of hitler genetic purity vs natural selection.

find out what the point of what hitler was talking about then the opposition.

go from there and identify the arguments for the reason behind what he was saying opposed to what the opposition was saying.

and example would be that under hitler the population by now would have bee cleansed of all racial diversity down to blond hair and blue eyes with unreserved genetic clongin by now with no bars on stem cell research and other ''unethical'' sciences.

vs what we know today world has become.

also argue thing you dont specifically belive.

Here's a primer for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

Learn to not TL;DR, the internet is a vast goldmine of knowledge

Then learn to speedscan because the internet is an ocean of shit

wisdom.
pick up a few holy picks, probably best to start with the tao te jing - it will teach you how to think and manipulate thought to the best of your natural ability. It may also bring light on to your situation about how the world works, depending on how astute you mind is. If you finish the tao te jing, move on to timecube, and then the bible with your new wisdom.

>>2509036

Not OP; thanks though. Interesting stuff here.

>>2509034
>well not on 4chan for a start.
4chan isn't that bad actually.
Sure, there are lots of morons, but this is true for 98% of the Internet.
While 4chan won't teach one how to argue, it will teach how NOT to argue - a good hypocritical troll will spot and demolish all fallacious arguments (even if only to substitute his own fallacies).
>>2509020
It's a very good idea to read the article in >>2509036 and then look for examples. Feminist blogs, fat acceptance movements, religious sites (conservapedia), egalitarian and liberal material, conservative material, politics - all of those tend to be full of delicious counterexamples of rational thought.
It's safe to assume anything coming from a "good" and moral person will have fallacies one needs to spot before starting the argument.
I'm not saying that "durr so edgy" makes you rational, but morality is a mostly (completely?) subjective matter, so arguing about morality is not much more rational that discussing whether chicken or apples taste better. Most people will want to support their beliefs, even if they have no arguments for them.

>>2509078
NOT THIS FAG AGAIN
WHY ISN'T HE BANNED YET
OP, this guy offers a perfect example of who not to be.

OP, don't listen to them. They don't possess the ability to think the opposite of what they're taught. Their mind is what's written in books, what's claimed to be 'facts', and that's all their mind is, that is 'intelligence'. Wisdom, is above intelligence, it allows you to determine whether something is right or wrong, so these facts you look at, you can decide personally if they are correct or incorrect - rather than allowing them to automatically BE CORRECT in your mind.

It's a fact that the earth revolves around the sun.

It's wise to say the sun revolves around the earth, to induce the earth to revolve around the sun.

>>2509078
MOTHER FUCKING TIME CUBE IS CUBE OF TIME AND 4 SIDE TIME REALITY BASE OF THE EDUCATED UNEDUCATED MASSES OF IGNORANT TIME CUBE IS 4 SIDE ROATAION DAY AND TIME THE UNIVERSE IS A CUBE OF TIME THAT IS MADE OF 4 SIDES ONLY AND DAYAND NIGHT ARE A LIE WHICH IS TIME CUBE REALITY THAT THE UNEDUCATED EDUCATED MASSES OF THE IGNORANT DO NOT KNOW ABOUT BECAUSE THEY AE BLID TO 4 SIDE EXISTENCE OF TIME IN CUBE FORM WHICH IS TIME CUBE!!!

>>2509034
I learned a lot about debating, logical fallacies and argument construction on 4chan, mostly on religion vs atheism and abortion threads.

I'm majoring in psych and the debating skills I picked up on 4chan help me greatly. Many teachers already complimented my arguments on papers and in class, and whenever someone disagrees with me and we end up debating, I'm often able to put them on a tight spot simply for being able to quickly refute their arguments.

In my experience, I think the most valuable skill is argument construction. What makes sense, why, the logic behind it and how to de-construct it. Thus, the study of it is key in making a point about anything.

Trick is, this is much like drumming or playing a guitar. You may know the notes and what goes where and when, but you have to practice and listen to a shitload before you can go out playing.

So after you know how to create and how to poke holes in arguments, go practice it. Don't miss a chance to get into a religion/atheism thread or ven a political one. Fuck it, it's 4chan anyways. Also, read on history and philosophy. You don't have to go very deep tbh, just practice thinking "does this make sense? How could I refute it?" and you'll do fine.

In an addendum, I think the living master of point-making is probably Hitchens. Watch a thing or fifty by him.

>>2509112

>>2509112
mother fucking time cube man

OP, you can tell that these people understand my points - they're just trying to suppress your brain into a singularity -- make you all herp herp and stuff. Think of it like this; you can't herp without derp, but they're stealing your derp, and replacing it with FACT - now in your mind, you see fact and you herp, naturally, and then they add in another fact, and you herp again;

herp FACT (start)
herp FACT
herp FACT
herp.....

herp FACT (the start)

It goes around this huge cycle, and then they lock you onto the end, and you mind becomes a huge HERP surrounded by FACT (which you don't even know if it's true or not, you just think it is, cause you're herping.

What real humans do is:
herp FACT derp "no it's not a fact" herp derp.. etc

Let's have a technical argument right now, OP, and everyone can watch and comment on it. Pick a topic like abortion or the death penalty, pick a side, and we'll argue.

>>2509157
Actually, nevermind. I just realized I have to go.

read through these:
http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences

>>2509154
fucking time cube man

fucking

TIME CUBE OF 4 EQUAL SIDES OF TIME IN 4 DIRECTION TIME THAT IS TIME CUBE!!!

>>2509154
What honestly scares the living shit out of me is the remote possibility that you seriously believe in what you say.

>>2509171

you need to read time cube man you need to

Timecube is the theory of everything; this should be necessary education.

>>2509176
all hail time cube

>>2509177
no. all hail aether.

EARTH HAS 4 CORNER

SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY

TIME CUBE

IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION.

4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH- No 1 Day God.

******************

FREE SPEECH in AMERICA is

"BULL SHIT",

EVIL EDUCATORS

block and suppress

www.timecube.com.

You are educated evil,

and might have to kill

the evil ONE teaching

educators before you

can learn that 4 corner

days actually exist -but

all Cube Truth denied.

Dumb ass educators fear

me and hide from debate.

They are paid to teach a propaganda book - not

Cube Truth - for which

they would be fired. Evil

teachers betray students,

as ONE is a Death Value.

Cube 4x4 voids 1 & God.

USA ripe for holocaust.

Man evolves from teenager -

in cube metamorphosis

but ignores teenager to worship a male mother,

guised in woman's garb,

churchman called father.

Adult god is adult crime

upon their own children.

More holocaust deserved

>>2509179
aether wrote time cube?

The 12 hour or 1/2 Day clock is an intended EVIL against humanity -

indicting every human on Earth as Dumb, Educated Stupid and Evil -

for imaginary Cubed Earth has 4

Days within simultaneous rotation.

One God would equal a God Dunce

as Humans evolve from Children.

****************************

Americans are dumb, educated ONE

stupid and they worship ONEism Evil.

It is not immoral to kill believers, for the stupid bastards EVOLVE from son

or daughter who precedes them. NOT one damn human adult has ever been

created - for ONLY babies are CREATED - and every adult has within them the LIFE given by children who DIE to give-up their lives to their parent

image - so their mom or Dad can live. Adults are EVIL to deny they evolved from children - and claim their adult EGO image is a god likeness. Such damn evil AMERICANS should have their tongue cut out for the heinous hoax they are perpetrating upon their own children. I know now why the Jews

deserved their holocaust - worshipping their own adult EGO image as a damn god whil ignoring and betraying the very children who sacrifice their LIFE

so their Moms and Dads could Live. There is nothing godly about stupid

and evil adults who betray their own children who gave them Life. I AM

WISER THAN ANY DAMN MAN OR GOD WHO EVER EXISTED. IF THE

HALF AND HALF CO-CREATED

JESUS RETURNS TO EARTH, I WILL PERSONALLY KILL THE BASTARD MYSELF. ALL CREATION OCCURS

BETWEEN AND AS OPPOSITES. YOU DUMB-ASS, EARTH, THE UNIVERSE

AND EVERY LIVING THING IN IT

>>2509186
no.. and yes

>>2509166
>>2509175
>>2509176
>>2509177
>>2509179
>>2509180

>I'm a complete idiot looking to understand how to think critically and argue my beliefs with logic and rationality.

That's a stupid goal. If you don't practice critical thinking, the beliefs you hold now will most likely shatter while you learn. Rationality is about finding answers, not protecting some a priori given position.

Start with classics, my pick would be Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Hunted World".

>>2509189
woe thats fucking cool man

>>2509197

>>2509202
hey man thats not cool

>>2509213

>>2509229
is that a time cube?

>>2509231
No its a Hammer-Time.

It's made up of millions of time cubes.

>>2509233
you cant touch this

>>2509234
Exactly I was going to say "time-hammer" but then I swapped it fishing for the reference.

Hey OP, I'd recommend staying away from formal logical constructions and just learning their implications.

So for example, don't bother learning how to make a modus ponens out of premises, just learn that someone has to support 'position' or 'not-position' and there's no middle ground

I'd also read really classic refutation literature - Edmund Gettier's 'Knowledge as justified, true belief' is as close as you can get to a rape in academic philosophy, and is only about two pages long and free on the web

>>2509192
Something else I need to learn is articulance.

Yea, I meant to say that I want to find the truth using reasoning.

I'm similar. I can do well in math and physics but suck at making arguments and stuff. I hate anything where I'm supposed to argue points and stuff like that.

How can I get better.

<span class="math">comment[/spoiler] <span class="math">removed[/spoiler]

Logic is entirely useless in creating opinions about things.

>>2509180
>timecube
>4 corners

Wouldn't that be more like a...timesquare?