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/sci/ - Science & Math


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2418847 No.2418847 [Reply] [Original]

I just watched this movie, Zeitgeist III: Moving Forward. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

I agree with a lot of what they talk about although I feel there is a level of individuality that needs to be put first before 'hard science'. It's just not realistic the way they are going about it.

I didn't get a sense of a plan other than 'activism' / 'spreading information'... although this is educational, this is not a solution. Are the organizers of this movement aware of patterns in history known as backlashes? While their intentions are well meant and their layouts and designs are technically feasible, I don't see a smooth transition from capitalist-culture to what they propose.

While this movie may be mind-blowingly revealing to many, it wasn't to me. I've known this shit for a while, and have over the past few years conceived a different approach to it, stemming from more individualistic fundamentals. They mention 'The Invisible Hand' (Laissez Faire), proposing at as a metaphoric symbol for 'The State' making people believe it's 'God's Will' as if it's a negative pattern. I believe it's paramount to their intent behind their movement. Why not empower people in an individualistic sense by creating a technological system that allows people to subtly discover that capitalism simply cannot sustain itself, and provide real alternatives to work within the capitalism system to transition to resource based communities?

Here is how it could work: I'm going to give some examples of several different web movements in an attempt to cohesively tie the strengths of all of them together and by such, eliminate the weaknesses:

>> No.2418854

1. Wikipedia: It is an interconnected knowledge-base self-maintained by its community so that it is not easily vandalized (for long).
***Pros: Community Powered, Set Protocols for Development.
***Cons: Not a very large community, Limited aesthetic and functional interconnectivity between pages, Lack of subjective reflection data on various topics.

1b. Wikiversity / Khan's Academy: Community-contributed free open education resources.
***Pros: Free open education through a variety of mediums- PDF / Video / Audio.
***Cons: Lack of direction forking from fundamental points of view (cohesively mapping the growth of a student's knowledge, especially aesthetically & visually).

2. Facebook: Social Networking
***Pros: Large established networks of people. Self-interested paid developers. Apps.
***Cons: Corporately dominated, Privacy issues, Fake accounts.
@ What does this add? Larger community, more possible exposure of acts of contribution to 'Collective Human Knowledge' (Wikipedia is a primitive, in relation to the system being proposed, form of this). Additionally, with the ability to create apps on top of large data systems relative to individuals and local communities, advanced user-generated services can be implemented by individuals on top of this system.

With the combination of open education resources and mass social networking, it would be possible to establish [diplomas] or reflections of an individuals competence in various fields of knowledge, granted a method verifiable testing would need to be implemented to establish credibility.

>> No.2418863

Now I propose the development of open industry within this system that would work the same way as open education. Free, open training would be available to anyone so they may establish competence in varying fields. There would likely need to be local hands-on centers of learning for somethings but a surprisingly large portion of it all can be handled with video, and more so with ingenious web apps.

Businesses could establish themselves as an open business and reflect their employees' competence level. Additionally businesses that are related could more intelligently manage their resources. This also has the benefit of making advertising obsolete. An open business has nothing to hide, creating a strong bond of trust between them and the consumer.

So now, if you can get the picture of a working open system for transitioning our modality of education and business to, you probably realize some short-comings... Who is going to develop all this shit? It's a lot of work! This brings me to my next web trend:

3. Kickstarter.com: This is a project-funding site, where people can get exposure to different project ideas and get pledges to a set amount of money, where if reached, the project gets funded. If they fall short of their goal, none of the pledges pay them. Additionally, pledges are rewarded for their contributions depending on the amount they pledge, ranging from little 'shwag' stickers to much bigger and more expensive items or services. It has some very successful projects on the site worth checking out.
***Pros: Funding! It creates incentive for people to develop projects that help out a much larger community. Exposure! People can lay out their plans of how they intend to develop their ideas, inspiring others.
***Cons: Kickstarter takes 5% off the top, Lack of a visual map from a fundamental point of view of types of projects.

>> No.2418867

Now we are getting somewhere. There are many out there that would work to create free open resources for education and industry if they could be paid for it. But it's not limited to just that. Entertainment, sports, hobbies, DIY-resources... you name it. If certain large industries or corporations wanted to jump on the bandwagon and improve their image, their contributions to the world would be reflected on said proposed super-site. Welcome to the digital renaissance.

So what needs to happen to realize something like this? Ideally it could use some help from our friends Jimmy Wales and Mark Zuckerburg to get it quickly off it's feet, but anyone with the ability to visualize this and the resources to start it up can.

There are still more developmental challenges ahead, I don't want to get too into the specifics, but I'll be happy to respond to any feedback or questions.

I would be more than happy to help, but I can not do it alone, my train of thought is far too wide to effectively focus on specific tasks, and I would be much more effective in a position of oversight/council. My name is Endae Susakii and this is my glimpse of a near-foreseeable future. You may contact me at Endae.Susakii@Safe-mail.net

>> No.2418882

>zeitgeist
>reasonable

pick one

>> No.2418892
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2418892

>zeitgeist
>reasonable

>> No.2418911

Zeitgeist is a conspiracy theory "documentary" to end all conspiracy theories. And just like all other conspiracy theories, it's ridiculous.

>> No.2418949

>>2418911
you don't need conspiracy theories to know some rich, well connected people have taken advantage of the system we live in to the point that it's not very responsible.

>> No.2418963

>>2418867
Would your complete openess imply no IP law? This would be good in some respects, but inevitably it'd act as a demotivator since inventors could not profit from their creations. I think a greatly reduced Intellectual Property term is best. This would allow some profit along with speedy transition of knowledge into the public domain.

>> No.2418983

>>2418963
IP law is fundamentally flawed government intervention in the free market. this is free market. Intellectual Property, simply put, is not property, rather a time stamp claim to fame.

however with IP law in place, as silly as it is, its possible to circumvent.

>> No.2418998

Also, as an alternative to IP law in such a proposed system, your 'patent' or rather contribution would be reflected on your social identity page, if you so chose to do so, the rewards would not be as set in stone as capital but they would be there, and you would look like a bigger man for contributing.

>> No.2419201

>Zeitgeist
>I agree with
>this is educational
>mind-blowingly revealing

These movies are just better produced, but not by much, versions of the same retarded rants people like Jared Lee Lautner live by,

This is /sci/ not /tard/, gtfo.

>> No.2419224

>>2419201
/sci/ = /tard/

>> No.2419267

So wait, are you going in a technocratic direction here OP?

Also, one point of your post I take issue with-
>creating a technological system that allows people to subtly discover that capitalism simply cannot sustain itself,
>subtly

Simply that subtlety does not well into societies, which seem predicated on the comfort zones of their inhabitants. 18,000 children die every day from poverty. A billion people are starving. How much more un-subtle can we get?

>> No.2419312

>>2419267

>18,000 children die every day from poverty. A billion people are starving. How much more un-subtle can we get?

Is that because of capitolism?

>> No.2419387

>>2419312
Of course it's because capitolism.

>> No.2419437

>>2419387

Do you have any data to back that up that doesn't smell like the turd of an aborted fetus because you just pulled it out of you ass?

>> No.2419505

>>2419437
Do you have any data backing up that it Doesn't?

>> No.2419516

>>2419505

Yes, I do.

>> No.2419546

>I didn't get a sense of a plan other than 'activism' / 'spreading information'... although this is educational, this is not a solution.

I mentioned something to that effect in the short time I was involved with them and was basically told off by one of the representatives. They plan to have the whole world transition at once upon hitting 'critical mass' but that's frankly not going to happen with an untested idea... especially if we get the wide spread enlightenment they think they need.

>>2418963
I disagree, it will weed people who are motivated by profit out of various industries and leave only those who do it for the love of it.

>> No.2419556

>>2419516
Well... um... Damn, you got me with that. You win.

>> No.2419638

>billion people are starving

1989 first year that their were more people over fed than underfed.

We currently made enough for 9-11 billion each year depending on the production. But to distribute it all would cost 8 times the US defense budget. Who do you think is going to pay for and ship all this fucking stuff.

Protip: most the third world is not being exploited for resources or labor because with a few exception they have few mineral resources and poor soil and their labor is being devalued by automation everyday. Even places like China and India are actually looking manufacturing jobs.

The third world is not being exploited as much as being cast to the wolves, with the ability to make exports competitive and afford imports. Tariffs could make their own goods more competitive domestically, but it would also raise prices for the first 10-20 years. So their up shit creek without a paddle.

>> No.2420035

OP's idea is for the immediate future, he/she (what kind of name is endae?) mentions Laissez Faire in terms that with more intelligently interconnected social/technological networking that whatever direction it goes, it will result in more educated and empowered people somewhat more free of capitalist influences. Bravo, though OP needs to organize his/her thoughts and portray them more visually to dumb it down for the masses, like for the guy referencing the mindfucked 22 year old tucson shooter. I have seen zeitgeist and while technologically they aim to do some pretty cool stuff, they are complete fucking fools to think they can do it the way they are.

>> No.2420096

>>2419638
I herped so much that I derped. Africa (which is entirely third world) is basically lying on whole mountains of untapped resources. The only problem is that the whole continent is full of murderous tribals armed with every weapon known to man, and consequently plagued with constant war, mass murdering dictators and their guerrilla counterparts, and of course mind boggling amounts of disease. So it's still just easier and cheaper to pump the resources that we use off from what's left on western soil at the moment, regardless of the decline. Or just buy the finished products from China.

The third world will only descend into more war as western economies start failing due to declining resources of all kinds, and start looking for new deposits elsewhere, like in the middle east for example.