/sci/ - Science & Math

No, totally impossible.

>>2386661
checkmate atheist

I have no idea how aliens think

>>2386653
Define "god or deity".

>>2386653
assuming they get intelligent enough, sure.

>>2386682

Most animals are atheists, simply because they can't grasp concepts such as deties.

Some humans are theists as our neural networks just look for statistical correlation, and thus we learn language, then you have parents brainwashing their kids with what their parents brainwashed them and so on. if some false beliefs managed to get inserted in this brainwashing (early teaching) methodology, children who have not been thaught to use reason and logic will be vulnerable to them. They will also be vulnerable as adults. The appearance and perpetuation of religion is caused by a variety of psychological (and thus cognitive, at a deeper level) factors.

It may be that your hypothetical intelligent aliens manage to evolve a form of intelligence which is based more on logical reason than the statistical inference and learning present in humans through neural networks. Due to the way the natural world works, I think our models are more likely to occur, which basically means they'll be vulnerable to certain similar fallacies, however if some advanced intelligent race creates some AI which reasons using different methods, it may be that such an AI would find such reasoning falacious, thus religion or unfounded beliefs (faith) would not exist for them. My personal opinion is that the "strong" AIs we'll be develop will be as vulnerable as we are, if conditioned early about such things and are never exposed to logical thought, however all of this is highly speculative.

If we're talking purely hypothetically, I can see one case where a civilization could have never believed in supernatural dieties. The only way I can see it working is if the civilization is spontaneously created by some supernatural entity and given the knowledge of evolution striaght away. Basically, clone earth in its current state but without the knowledge of religion.

Conversely, if such supernatural being does not exist, it's much more likely that people will believe in dieties because they would have achieved sentience and had to figure it out for themselves. Unfortunately, primitive minds come up with simple solutions, and a magical sky man is the simplest solution of them all.

Cool, huh?

>>2386700
>Most animals are atheists

Atheism: The belief there are no gods

They are irreligious

>>2386710

Aunicornism - The utterly unsubstantiated and foolish belief that unicorns don't exist

WAIT... what if we encounter an alien civilization and teach them religion OH "GOD" NO

>>2386714
Does genetic engineering count?

>>2386710
>Atheism: The belief there are no gods

It is also the lack of a belief in god. So, no.

>>2386710
My definition of atheism just means a-theism, that is the /lack/ of a belief in a theistic deity, which basically means you don't believe in an interventionist supernatural power that caters or cares about your needs. Do non-human animals hold such theistic beliefs? No, because they can't even grasp the concept as they lack the advanced language we have to even express this concept. Atheism does not mean that you think no god exists (that would be called strong atheism, especially if you even claim you have evidence, that is, you are not agnostic, however almost all atheists are agnostics).

I'm irreligious (although I can make certain plausible pantheistic guesses about it, that in no way means I believe in them, I just think they're a lot more feasible/logical than theistic gods), however since I hold no "beliefs" about any particular theistic gods, or the possibility of a theistic god (I assign it a low probability, due to complexities involved, but I hold no particular /belief/ about them), I would also be called an agnostic atheist. A child which was not been indoctrinated would also have this default state.

>>2386714
http://www.lair2000.net/Unicorn_Dreams/Unicorns_Man_Made/unicorns_man_made.html

>>2386736
Not according to any major dictionary

>>2386748
http://www.evilbible.com/Definition_of_Atheism_2.htm
Stupid Argument #1: The etymology of the word "atheism" means "a lack of belief".

A commonly repeated error is that the word "atheism" was derived from the prefix "a-", meaning "without", and the word "theism", meaning a belief in God. Therefore they claim that "atheism" means "without a belief in God". This is incorrect because the etymology of the word "atheism" derives from the Greek word "atheos" meaning "godless". The "-ism" suffix, which can be roughly mean "belief", was added later. The etymology of the word means "godless belief" not "without a belief in gods".

A couple of etymologies from respected dictionaries are shown below:

From Merriam-Webster Online:
Etymology of "atheism": Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god

From The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th ed.:
Etymology of "atheism": French athéisme, from athée, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless : a-, without; see a–1 + theos, god

>>2386772
It is the definition used by most theists to describe their belief. If a large enough number of people use that meaning, it becomes that meaning.

For example, the word "hacker" was originally defined as someone who was part of hacker culture, a culture of programmers 'hacking' away at code and producing new software. That was the real meaning of the word, and it still is within 'hacker culture' circles. However, media has distorted the meaning to be "someone who breaks into computer networks, usually remotely", which is now the widely accepted meaning.

Christians (a large precentage of the population) will typically define atheist to mean someone who has a strong belief in the lack of existence of gods, WITHOUT PROOF.
Most atheists are rational people who reached their conclusion through rational thought, thus they know that if some general form of God exists is generally unknowable (except in the case where the definition of said God is logically inconsistent, in which case it can't even exist as a concept, thus it can't exist at all), thus they'll reject beliefs in it based on the claim that it's unknowable (just like flying unicorns around the moon) and unlikely. Others will just reject holding beliefs based on the lack of evidence. They would be atheists too, at least according to their understanding and common use of the word.

The fact is that only an incredibly small precentage of atheists hold absolute knowledge and belief regarding the lack of a god. The majority of them merely claims lack of beliefs in such gods.

>>2386772
>The "-ism" suffix, which can be roughly mean "belief", was added later.

Oh lawdy.

You now realize the concept of god doesn't even make sense and:

ignostic > everything else

>>2386772
>The "-ism" suffix, which can be roughly mean "belief", was added later

That's where it falls down. Atheism literally translated means "being without God".

Whoever wrote that atrociously written website obviously forgot that "-ism" is actually used to form action nouns.

>>2386818
This, which hilariously is what the 2nd etymology posted actually says.

>>2386748
>>2386700
The etymology of the term "atheism" is not relevant; without a sophisticated communication method between humansand other animals it won't be known if they think like theists or atheits.

>>2386818
In philosophy an -ism is a belief or doctrine.

>>2386830
then atheism = doctrine of no god

>>2386830
>applying modern definition to ancient greek words

What's baptism the belief of then? Or is it an action noun?

>>2386829
How would they even imagine the concept? Assume you are a human and you never learned language, instead you lived in the wild. Do you think you would be capable of thinking of theistic gods in general? They are partially a result of being able to use advanced language. At best, in nature you would assign various things 'causes', this is what your brain does subconsciously. If those causes were incredibly flawed/made-up, you could come up with some sort of polytheism.

>>2386839
Baptism is the believe in Bapts that live in water and cleanse the soul when performing a baptism.

>This thread is full of proud homosexual atheists and confused deluded (probably also homosexual) theists.

>>2386700
>Most animals are atheists, simply because they can't grasp concepts such as deties.
Actually, all animals are Muslim, because they do not have free will to rebel against the will of Allah. Humans, like Djinn, are able to be Kufr because they rebel against the will of Allah as revealed by the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

No such aliens would be likely to exist, by the way. Aliens couldn't have gone from being mere animals to having a civilization in the last 1500 years, so any that do exist were around long enough for Allah to send a prophet to them (before He sent His last Prophet, Muhammad pbuh)

>>2386839
>implying baptism is a word from philosophy.

>>2386850
Humans who grow up living in the wild with other humans generally accept a worldview full of spirits and god-like things. I don't know if this question has been asked of humans who were raised by wolves, for xample, but historically the interpersonal/spiritual conception of reality seems to be the most "natural" state of being.

>>2386818
>Site proves him wrong
>Ad hominems, ad hominems everywhere

>>2386880
>points out incorrect usage of etymology
>hurr durr ad hominem

Nice strawman bro.

>>2386872
lrn2 reading comprehension

>>2386818
>Atheism literally translated means "being without God".
Actually, it means "being without God"-ism, which means "belief in being without God".

>>2386876
They're more likely to attribute behaviour to alive-like things as that's what they encounter in the world besides themselves. Maybe they could attribute things like fire and thunder such "reasons" as well. This is encountered in early tribal cultures, but even those tend to have some form of language. I suppose your claim is that humans tend to personify causes as common causes tend to be persons or animals, which does make sense to some degree, however I still think it would happen less in species which don't yet have language as they won't be able to clearly express the concept, and in the cases where they can express the concept, it's just polytheistic belief.

>>2386884
>Uses incorrect etymology
>Thinks it's correct
>Gets butthurt when this is pointed out
>Ad hominems, ad hominems everywhere

>>2386891
>>2386897
>implying Greek loan words don't exist

So... let's get this straight when looking at the etymology of "atheism" you think it's right that you mix the ancient greek "atheos" with the more modern English suffix "-ism"?

Instead of the ancient greek "atheos" and the ancient greek "-ism"?

Is that what you both are trying to say?

>>2386891
>"being without God"-ism

Atheismism?

>>2386918
>the more modern English suffix "-ism"?
LMAO
the -ism suffix comes from the greek -ismos
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ism

>>"being without God"-ism
>Atheismism?
No. Atheos means "being without God". Atheism means "belief in being without God".

>>2386931
>From Ancient Greek -ισμός (-ismos), a suffix that forms abstract nouns of action, state, condition, doctrine; from Ancient Greek -ισμα (-isma), from stem of verbs in -ιζειν (-izein).
>a suffix that forms abstract nouns of action, state, condition, doctrine

>>2386931
>implies "-ism" denotes belief and not an action noun
>posts etymology that states "a suffix that forms abstract nouns of action, state, condition, doctrine"

>>2386839
>What's baptism the belief of then?
Baptism is the belief is baptizing. A baptist is someone who subscribes to the belief in baptizing. Anabaptism is the belief in baptizing as adults. Pedobaptism is the belief in batpizing as infants. Baptism is unique in that it has transformed into a word that also refers to the event of being baptized itself, but that is a phenomenon unique to the word baptism. Even the other forms like anabaptism are not used that way.

>>2386931
10/10 would rage again

Now please let this shit die.

>>2386772
>the Greek word "atheos" meaning "godless"
Otherwise known as the lack of a god.

>>2386978
Meaning there are no gods

>>2386992
>Meaning there are no unicorns.
I suppose?

>>2387010
See
>>2386762

>>2387015
Unicorns must be magical.

>>2387020
Why?

>>2387020
If that's your belief then fine but the evidence suggests otherwise

unicorns are awesome.

>>2386895
I think it's much more likely that the words enter the language to describe the concepts rather than the concepts coming about through the use of the language.