/sci/ - Science & Math

>>2367623
YES!

Yes.

sure i think so, but how would humanity benefit from it?

I'd sure as hell hope so, or my future career plans might be fucked.

nasa and other space related programs should get half of the US defense budget for the last 40 years.

>at once

Maybe.

We will probably start needing outside resources eventually.

My theory is we will never switch to renewable energy and instead will get our fossil fuels from other planets and moons. Because of the corporations.

no.

The good people should instead be hurling themselves on their own dollar in tiny cobbled together trash cans filled with highly volatile chemicals of their own design.

if nothing else it will give back the good folk that zeal for life that only occurs when imminent death looms overhead.

>fund NASA and space related programs and scientists that will innovate and renovate our world
or
>fund idiots behind bar who sold crack on da streetz or raped their cousin who produce nothing good in the world and probly will come out to do exact same shit

I think the answer is obvious

>>2367641
>fossil fuels from other planets and moons

>>2367623

What galaxy is that?

>>2367655

Well not in this solar system obviously,

yeah...let the common folk go up with their screwdrivers, gravity dependent fuel pumps, and hammers for a bit

then maybe they will appreciate where all their money has been "disappearing" to huh?

>>2367641
>>My theory is we will never switch to renewable energy and instead will get our fossil fuels from other planets and moons. Because of the corporations.

THAT'S THE SPIRIT ROCKETEER!

Also no, delta Ving hydrocarbons from Titan is rather energy intensive. Also how do you power space probes to retrieve these hydrocarbons? There ain't air in space to burn them!

That being said, in the inner solar system, sunlight is rather abundant...

>>2367623
Yes. YES. YES! You cannot fathom the amounts of WANT I am emitting.
>>2367635
Post-scarcity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bIQLiKi3g
>>2367638
I am emitting more want than VY Canis Majoris emits light in its entire lifespan

>>2367722
http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/

They should. If we find a right planet we could send a bunch of niggers and wait a few hundred years and revisit to see if intelligent life has evolved.

>>2367706
uh...fuel cells
we are bound to fly past a rock full of more fuel we can launch another factory at no doubt if we plan ahead

and maybe pulling out liquid oxygen too on site if need be for the missing "air"

>>2367732
The TRS will use remote AI construction of habs and cities extensively for other planets and moons. This is very interesting to me and thank you for linking it.

>>2367739
>>Fuel cells
fuel cells breath air.

>>2367740
It may be possible to not even use AI, just relay logic:
custer.lcsr.jhu.edu/wiki/images/5/52/Chirikjian02_b.pdf

I would love to see NASA get greater funding, but not indiscriminately. I would like to see a lot more focus be put on colinzation and permanent off-world residence, be that in space, lunar, or Marsian.

>>2367738
aah fresh from /new/ I see

Anyway, if we were to spend less money on building ridiculously expensive weapons/war fighting machines (we are fighting against people in caves ffs) and more money on space technology, that would be amazing. But it probably won't happen. ;_;

I would love to see NASA get greater funding, but not indiscriminately. I would like to see a lot more focus be put on colonization and permanent off-world residence, be that in space, lunar, or Marsian.

>>2367750
I'll definitely be reading this on my Kindle a few days from now

>>2367753
That was part of NASA's focus actually, then some senator got wind of it and successfully led an effort to cut NASA's budget.

NASA's too afraid to even touch that stuff now for fear of their budget being cut even more.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Proxmire

>>2367776
>Proxmire earned the unending enmity of space advocates and science fiction fandom for his opposition to space colonization, ultimately eliminating spending on said research from NASA's budget.[9] In response to a segment about space colonies run by the CBS program 60 Minutes, Proxmire stated that; "it's the best argument yet for chopping NASA's funding to the bone .... I say not a penny for this nutty fantasy".[10]

>>2367623
FUCK. YES. Here's how:
1. Take all of the AIDS research money
>fuck Africa
2. Take the humanities subsidies
>fuck hippie artists
3. Take the farm subsidy money
>fuck farmers paid to grow nothing. if your business can't survive, then move
4. Take the Air Force's budget
>fuck air force planes. The air force hasn't done dick in any wars, just the army and navy.
4b. Take the marines budget as well
>fuck jarheads You fight on land? You're in the fucking army. Cope.
4c. The Coast Guard can just fuck right off as well
>you want to be on a boat? Fine, you're in the damn navy now. Boo hoo, your boat is now grey instead of white and red.

Give all of that money to NASA.

>>2367776
(Deleted my post because I couldn't stand the typo.)
Thanks for that, I'll read up!

But I would like to think that people better understand the role of technology in their lives today, especially given modern phones and the Internet. Couple that with American culture's assumption that timidity is a weakness and inherently makes one wrong, and the idea that NASA doesn't have the balls to tackle such projects only hurts those projects and NASA more than trying.

No, it should be fucking privatized.

It would be more successful that way.

Inb4 economic fallacies

>>2367790
I don't agree at all with cutting AIDS research, I think a gradual downsizing of farming subsidizes is in order, but yeah. NASA all the way.

Only if they change their goal from things we won't do successfully for 50-100 years (if business decides to fund it) to things we can do in 10-20 years (fuck business)

>>2367802
Cut all fucking subsidies.

Cut taxes to near zero.

Increase the standard of living.

Increase scientific advancement done by free people.

>>2367821
>>Cut taxes to near zero
NASA get's their funding from taxes.
>>Increase scientific advancement done by free people
corporations don't do basic research, it's not profitable

>>2367790

1. I have a better idea, do that for every country and put it into a giant pot, then just give it to the worlds most renowned space related scientists, tell them we want a fully functioning moon/mars/venutian colony in <25 years.

2. Wait 25 years.

3. Leave the planet.

>>2367830
>NASA get's their funding from taxes.
I know, privatize it.

>corporations don't do basic research, it's not profitable
I know rite, because all of modern medicine, cars, technology, computers was magically dropped out of the sky by the government. Fuck those evil capitalists.

>>2367790
>Take all of the AIDS research money
Bad idea.
>Take the humanities subsidies
Bad idea.
>Take the farm subsidy money
... Okay, not the "worst" idea...
>Take the Air Force's budget
Fucking insanity. Our Air Force is an amazing contribution to our war capabilities.
>Take the marines budget as well
It's part of the Navy's budget. Marines fight where needed, and also serve a valuable service, as do the specialized units in other branches.
>The Coast Guard can just fuck right off as well
... Jesus man.
>Give all of that money to NASA.
There's so much money in the defense budget spent on private contracting jobs that you can get a huge chunk there without even touching the operating budget of most of the military.

NASA definitely needs a budget bump, but I largely disagree about where to get it from. Then again, there was that tax thread we had the other day...

>>2367802
Fine. How about this for a budget (20% for each):
education
research (NASA is included in this)
infrastructure / transportation
army / navy
everything else

>>2367848
>thinks all major scientific advancements happened through private sector
Oh for fuck's sake, Look, the free market CANNOT fix EVERYTHING, government does actually have to fund certain projects which are not *shock horror* profitable to companies to pursue. Space exploration is a massive one for that.

>>2367853
So we disagree. That's fine. And yeah, the private contracting contracts are a joke. However...

>Take the humanities subsidies
>Bad idea.
I'm curious as to why you think this would be bad?

>>2367862
And curing disease as pharma should should be making obvious with it's 1% cure 99% medicated for the rest of you life ratio

keep US defense budget to <10% of the budget put that money into education and science. Maybe then we might not fall behind and won't be made fun of for being so god damn stupid.

>>2367857
You do realize that the budget is written by people with quite a bit of economics and finance education and even though they are told generally what to do by politicians and the budget needs politician approval formulating the actual budget is a long and involved process requiring a hell of a lot more thought than "hurr i liek this 5 thing maek split monies to do dat," right>

>>2367875
WHAT??? You mean 50% of the budget for the military is not a good thing?
>greentext

>>2367848
>>I know rite, because all of modern medicine, cars, technology, computers was magically dropped out of the sky by the government. Fuck those evil capitalists.
Ahem, ARPANET:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET
Also Hypertext
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

>>2367882
It's actually 67% of the discretionary budget.

>I know rite, because all of modern medicine, cars, technology, computers was magically dropped out of the sky by the government. Fuck those evil capitalists.

Protip: computers wouldn't exist without basic research into mathematical theory carried out by accademics (not by corporations).

Most of the shit you quote are examples of applied research and devlopment, not basic research. Then again so is space exploration technology.

However there is almost no economic incentive to explore space. Mine an asteroid/planet, expend fuel to bring resources back to earth and construct a reentry vehicle vs just dig a hole in ground on earth? Pretty simple decision.

Want to explore space? It has to be government funded.

>>2367878
>budget is written by people with quite a bit of economics and finance education
>The military spending greatly dominates everything else

Clearly they do not have THAT much financial education.

>>2367862
Is not a faggot.
DARPA

>>2367867
It's a philosophical argument, really. I have no problem with spending a comparable fraction of the budget in ensuring a voice that has no popular outlet be heard, even if vehemently disagreed with.

It's like the Virgin Mary made of shit. I think it's horrible. But I have no problem with it being made, or tax money funding it. I think that if it had been made, debuted, and no one cared about the artist's work, that would have been the ultimate example of a free society. We're not there, but thanks to metrics like this, I think we can tell if we're there, and where we need to advance to get there.

Not /sci/, but, you asked.

>>2367623
Either we invest money and get serious about alternative energies/resource here, or we will use money so that we can seriously start looking for outside sources.

The fear of investment outside of our planet are probably obvious:

*Spacecrafts are not cheap.
*No doubt obtaining resources won't be a cheap endeavor.
*Will we know exactly how the money is being spent?

>>2367897
No, they get told most of what they have to do by politicians, and can't really help that, but irregardless they're putting a hell of a lot more effort into it than you are sitting at your computer thinking your opinion matters.

>>2367878
If the pork projects, tacked on bills, and lobbyists / politicians' campaign fund donations' influence didn't exist I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, that is not the case.

>>2367905
>>outside sources
of what?

Until we get low cost access to orbit I don't really see the point in expanding huge resources on space. And no, even 1000 bucks a kilo is not cheap access to space. Come talk to me when we can build launch tracks that send stuff up for 100 a kilo. That's the kind of game changing tech NASA should be researching.

>>2367929
Helium-3 is the first choice. Lots of it on the Moon.

>>2367862
>HE ACTUALLY FUCKING BELIEVES SPACE TRAVEL ISN'T PROFITABLE

>>2367935
http://www.universetoday.com/73536/nasa-considering-rail-gun-launch-system-to-the-stars/

>>2367945
It isn't, at least not yet.

Yes. And humans of the Earth should work together for space research and better technologies.

Will never happen though.

>>2367935
inb4 space elevator

That would be awesome though. Still need work done on buckytubes to make it feasible. More money for that research, please?

according to capitalist faggots private business develop technology way better than the government. alright so why aren't they in the space program? oh wow a crappy aircraft that barely makes it into space.

>>2367889
>carried out by accademics (not by corporations).

Research universities and corporations are part of the free market. Dumbass.

>However there is almost no economic incentive to explore space

LOL how about mining and more resources?


>Want to explore space? It has to be government funded.

Mark my fucking words, it can only come through the free market.

>>2367969
Sorry, can't see your corporation from here

>>2367969

So why was it the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and not Walmart that was leading the space race?

>>2367944
Why helium 3? We don't have fusion that works yet...

Also the "Extraction of one metric tonne of helium-3, that necessary to provide about 1/25 of the annual U.S. electricity consumption or 10 GWe-yr (Kulcinski and Schmitt, 1987), will require the mining of about 11 km2 of the lunar surface to a depth of three meters"

That's an awful lot of regolith to process

http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/neep602/LEC19/spiral.html

>>2367958
LOL you are derping so fucking hard.

Enjoy being an economic illiterate.

>>2367977
>Walmart
Who do you think is funding the Chinese space program?

>>2367981
Is that supposed to be a thought out response?

>>2367980
i prefer the term, "Job Security".

>>2367977
Sorry, I can't hear you from my 80 year average lifespan and all this amazing technology I have no thanks to the government.
>>2367975
Nasa has a monopoly and had to fuck everyone else over to do what it did.

If we had an actual free market we'd be on mars by now.

>>2367992
I responded with the same level of intelligence as the poster I replied to.

>>2367995

Ever see the astronaut farmer? you communist faggots made it illegal for us to travel to space.

>>2367969
>>LOL how about mining and more resources?
Ok let me tell you about the best business venture of all time! For the modest price of 0.5 billion dollars my company will determine the composition of an asteroid! The asteroid MIGHT contain elements of economic value or it MIGHT not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Da2fyzBus

>>2368000

Enjoy your uninhabitable Earth in 20 years time. That's the thing with you robber baron faggots. You have no compassion for other human beings and no compassion for this planet. Contrary to what you think the resources aren't infinite.

>>2367992
perhaps the anon is simply misinformed or confused over the legal quagmire and red tape private business must deal with...

that the government made to keep their noses out of it...

>>2367980
>yet
There are a lot of 'yet's ITT. That's just the nature of talking about space exploration. What's to say that by the time humans get off of their lazy asses and get out there that fusion won't be a reality? And you are right about the Helium-3 taking a lot of processing. Perhaps it will just be used for spacecraft and not to power the Earth? Then not as much will be needed.

The Earth has plenty of energy options available to it. Ships that need to refuel out there are more limited.

>>2368005
incorrect good sir!

They are infinite within my own life time.
As you say, i don't really give two squats after that, i agree.

BTW, you are surrounded by us.
There is no hope.

>>2368021

6/10

>>2368021

>>2368021
>this is what Americans actually believe
God dammit.

Gentlemen, we are being trolled by the recent arrivals. Let's not get into this economic argument.

>>2368030
>>2368039
>>2368040
What do you expect? Not all humans feel culpable.

Good news is, we don't need every single person to agree, just most of them.

>>Ships that need to refuel out there are more limited.
So why not have the ships be solar powered and use VASIMR propulsion which uses hydrogen for reaction mass, which is abundant everywhere in the solar system?

>>2368055
>Good news is, we don't need every single person to agree, just most of them.
Not helping

Hey /sci/, you know what would be more productive than arguing about what x% of the budget NASA should get? That's right, you guess it, writing your politicians to tell them to increase NASA's budget. Right now NASA doesn't have enough money to fund their new rockets! Let's change that.

>>2368071
They're dead, Dave

>>2368061
So how many years off are those? Would they be done sooner with more funding? Another propulsion option is always a good thing.

>Research universities and corporations are part of the free market. Dumbass.
Funny that universities seem to get a large amount of government funding. Take that away and they'd become engineering universities lol.

>LOL how about mining and more resources?
Expend alot of resources to get a lesser amount in return? Genius. Particularly when you can go get the same resources by digging a hole.

Yeah. The US could cut military spending in half and STILL be the biggest military spender on earth, then give the rest of the cash to nasa.

>Fervently support laissez-faire capitalism.
>Demand that the federal government has a duty to bail my company out when my unethical practices cause me to go bankrupt.

>>2367660
That's OUR galaxy, brah

i really think NASA should get more money.
if you think on a bigger scale, why only focus on doing research on our own planet? i think it is one big step in human development to do research in this field and progress.
right now it might look like it has not much of a use to most people on this planet, but seieng how fast science move, it will lead to some great discoveries i think.

>>2368102
>your

It's actually Rockefeller's galaxy.

>>2368055
so...how do you suggest we end up outnumbering them? Especially in light of the fact, most of humanity fits the description despite their bawwing denials otherwise?
At least i'm honest with myself first and foremost. I never said i LIKED it or anything.

my upbringing demands that we bomb the fucktards back to the stone age or something. That's why i ask.

Then we can have our Utopian Wonderland?

Aren't most corporations given hand-outs by government, or at the very least its central bank, which was arguably created by banking and corporate interests and made into law by Congress? There was recent news where the Federal Reserve gave a bunch of money to corporations like McDonald's and Harley-Davidson, in a desperate effort to continue propping up this failing economy. That sure as hell ain't free market, if you ask me.

>>2368130
>Then we can have our Utopian Wonderland?
It's coming.

>>2368157
Why dd/mm/yyyy?

Isn't yyyy/mm/dd better?

>>2368179
Smallest to largest is best in my opinion

>>2368126
rockefeller wouldn't exist in a free market

sorry

>>2367660
I would also like to know what galaxy that is, if anyone knows. I skimmed through a couple galaxy catalogs and couldn't recognize it.

>>2368093
>increase nasa's budget when we are trillions in debt

boy you liberals are stupid.

>>2368192
Sup

>>2368181
I was thinking from a computationally function point of view, I'll admit. Files/tags with yyyy.mm.dd.hh.mm.ss gives an exact time and order by default. To do it the other way requires deconstruction of the time, and evaluation on a sectional basis.

But, to each their own.

>>2368203
>17 billion

You were saying?

>>2368208
>717 Billion
You were saying?

>>2368192

Money is fake. Debt means nothing.

>>2368224
This is what evil stupid keynesian pseudo-scientists actually believe
>>2368215
Dude, I don't know how to break this to you, but government control over the economy doesn't work.

Imagine all the awesome stuff we would have if taxes were near zero and we had a stable currency?

Imagine all the technology.

>>2368234
How about having no taxes and letting all work be done by automation and AI leaving humans to follow their creative pursuits under a libertarian technocratic government for the advancement of science and humanity fuck yeah?

Dream big, plan huge.

>>2368215
>>2368215
this is why we cant have nice things

>>2368243
Well yeah, that would be awesome, except for that technocratic thing.

>>2368245

>>2368247
>that would be awesome, except for that technocratic thing.

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy
>Technocracy is a form of government in which engineers, scientists, health professionals and other technical experts are in control of decision making in their respective fields.

I'm having the craziest fucking problem right now... Every time I post, I get banned for being part of "the invasion."

And then I enter my plea, and a few moments later I'm no longer banned. Then I make another post here, on topic, and I get the banned screen again. WTF.

Domestic free markets are good. International free markets are gay.

I often think of what could be achieved within our lifetime if NASA and other research institutions were given HALF the yearly US military budget. Even if space rockets and awesomely cool stuff like that wouldn't benefit humanity, it would sure be better than paying for imperialist wars in shitholes around the world.

The problem with capitalism and Americans is that they don't actually boycott faulty products. They continue buying and buying.

>>2367623

YES