/sci/ - Science & Math

Pic related. We were never going to get into the galaxy riding the genetic lottery with our genes. I for one welcome our genetically superior overlords.

Nothing wrong with improving the gene pool, however I'd much prefer the ability of engineering the actual DNA, so one could replace undesirable genes. A truly planned child.

That said, just as in Gataca, if someone truly wants to be something, they can be, the human brain is the best adaptive mechanism evolution has cooked up so far and it can compensate for many other issues.

>>2360819
But if we breed away genetic diversity, we won't get to surf the stars because we'll be wiped out by some stupid disease.

>mfw ethnic groups are deleted from existence.

>>2360834
I'm sure we'll figure that out. I didn't mean breeding away diversity away was a good thing, but being of genetic engineering is. We need every tool in our arsenal. The universe is a complex and dangerous place.

>>2360834
Humans aren't even that suitable for space. I'd rather we transition to robots already.

People think it's gonna be one big leap with super hero's being produced.

Well yeah it will be because instead of allowing the stuff the be used when it's available we're keeping it away while we're still progressing in the research.

>>2360844
I'm with you there. But I wonder if humanity's propensity for faddishness will make genetic engineering a real problem.

> 2036
> Fox News
"The liberals have again curtailed our freedom by outlawing hair color selection in our children through genetic manipulation."

>>2360862
I just mostly figure we haven't developed the organizational structure to deal with trans-humanism, and such institutions won't survive we're going to have to invent entire new modes of living our lives is all. Basically all of human existence will have to undergo a paradigm shift.

>>2360862

seems like conservatives would be against and liberals for

>>2360830

Truly planned children, in the way most people imagine them, are impossible. Sure eye colour is determined by a single gene but many many many things are not. Genetic engineering is a helpful tool but it can only go so far. Sooner or later westerners will have to abondon the pill paradigm and accept the reality that not everything has a quick fix that requires no work from you. If there's the potential for a "perfect" child it will involve more than biology. It will involve upbringing, something at which many, if not most, people these days are downright failures.

It would depend and being Liberal and Conservative is more a spectrum than two camps, but it's made out that way.

>>2360879
Well the ivory-tower academics would realize the danger involved and curtail pointless manipulation, which the right would immediately be against because it was proposed by ivory-tower academics who couldn't possibly know what it is like to be a real hard-working American.

>>2360885
I mostly meant it in the form of removing most common genetic disaseases. Maybe even larger prefrontal cortex, various desirable physical traits and so on.

I never ever said the environment doesn't play a huge role: it does. Even sexual preference is determined by the prenatal environment. The knowledge and direction a child gains depends a lot on how their parents educate their child and so on. The environment is incredibly important, however I was just talking about the genetics part which just means giving someone a good head start and assuring he doesn't encounter nasty roadblocks/end-of-the-road situations in his life due to genetic issues.

>>2360909

I probably should have just posted that instead of making it a reply to your post as the second line of your post indicates you're obviously not stupid.

I didn't really mean it as a reply to you, more a statement of fact with respect to the general thread.

this, combined with licenses to actually conceive chidren, will be the salvation of the human race.

>>2360909
>Even sexual preference is determined by the prenatal environment.

so there is a inutero cure for teh gay? I've never heard of this.

Eh, mechanical augmention has more promise in the long run, but for the time being this is better. At least until we can wire a backpack of CPUs into your nervous system.

>>2360988
>mfw there will be a diversity of cyborg and genetic augmentation

>>2360979
Teh gay is apparently caused by the baby getting the wrong hormones during brain development, so you could end up with a male developing certain female-like brain structures if it isn't exposed to testosterone. At the same time, it seems that the mom's immune system sometimes fucks up the required hormone levels(sometimes after having multiple children, thus developing some slight immunity). So technically "teh gay" is caused in some 40% by a lack of certain hormones during birth (in males), or an excess of certain hormones (in females).

>>2361016
So with stricter monitoring of the environment surrounding the uterus, we could finally find a cure for buttpiracy?

>>2361036
It's just considered the major factor, accounting for something like 40% of sexuality development, however it's doubtful it would account for all possible cases.

>>2361050
Hey, a reduction by 40% is pretty boss, that'd mean if I go to jail I'd have to spend 40% less time guarding my precious booty.

>>2361036
I doubt it. Even if you're born straight, there is a chance your body will change in growth. Which is probably what happens with most people.

>>2361036
Yeah, and 25 years from now, when we need an engineer, we'll all be screwed.

>>2361054
Also when you age beyond 25 and your body begins the slow decline until death mutations will occur. No anon the queer will always be around.

>>2361054
its only a change that occurs with some kind of sexual molestation and/or other forms of sexuality introduced to the child at a young age.

>So with stricter monitoring of the environment surrounding the uterus, we could finally find a cure for buttpiracy?
*knock knock*
What the fuck is going on inside your head, I wonder...

>>2361050
>>2361036
>>2361016
Wouldn't be surprised if we see testosterone treatments for male fetuses in a couple years.

Even if we discard physical sex eventually, I'd expect the two classic genders to be maintained. If only because having half the population predicated toward being bloody minded bastards and the other half toward being vindictive bitches will probably be desirable until the end of time.

Diversity of hatred and modes of aggression is the only diversity that is absolutely needed no matter want we become.

>>2361016
>>2361016
>>2361016
source?

A lot of people forget that even though there are those developmental factors, most of sexuality is actually a result of many complex dynamics, and nothing is black and white, it exists in a multidimensional range. However, of course, things like early brain development into specific male or female structures will play a huge rule.

>>2361063
That kind of change happens throughout life, it would be simple for someone to become gay, lesbian or transgendered through brainwashing themselves. Without outside influence.

>>2361083
That is really depressing.

>>2361082
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation
Read the citations.

If they can make true hermaphrodites more common, that would be so fucking awesome. Imagine fucking your own vagina, or chain fucking possibilities.

>>2361083
Second.

Sexually in general has gone too far and is a fucking waste of time. The dating, the marriage, the kinks, the loving dovey shit; it all needs to go. I'm for reproductive sex only; not for any moral reason but for brutal efficiency. Love is a waste of time, just mix your fucking gametes and have it done with.

inb4NOFUN
Because that is exactly what I'm saying.

>>2361099
That would be epic. Hermaphrodites are very common in all except mammals and is very successful. Imagine if we could integrate this in human beings.

>>2361099
>>2361119
This was explored in Isaac Asimov's Foundation and Earth. One one planet, the humans had engineered themselves to be a race of hermaphrodites. Self-fertilized eggs, then extracted and grown in artificial wombs.

>>2361111
What's the point of removing one source of motivation?
One less reward pathway to exploit.

>>2361136
I agree, instead we should "add" reward paths.

>>2361119
Sorry, but Wolbachia is going to make males obsolete.

>>2361119
I don't know man, seems like a lot of work for what is essentially a cosmetic procedure. If the futa was androgenous in all features like say the skeletal system, then it wouldn't have room for a birth canal.

The reason mammals and most reptiles are not hermaphroditic is because to the problems of laying large eggs(capartive to fish or amphibian eggs since the reptiles need amniotic environment contained in the egg) or live birth. Same with sharks and rays they have large leathery eggs so no sex changing unlike ray-finned fish.

And if they had female skeletal systems then we'd have all the population that will all be taxed by being preggers instead of only half. I'm not sure it would work.

And if you want to be able to constantly change sex you'd have to change the skeleton.

Long story short, breeding in artifical wombs or just assembling kids will probably be the way to go from a material balance perspective.

>>2361136
>Needs motivations
>Has emotional attachments
>Doesn't want be efficient like a machine
My sensors detect pansy

>>2361111

>>2361156
Elaborate.

>>2361074
That that would be an amusing way to phrase a question.

>>2361180
Add some lasers

>GATACA HERE WE COME
Fuck yeah, it's about time

>>2361168
Almost all of hermaphrodites aren't both sexes at the same time. They switch according to the situation and do change their bodies to accommodate. So those problems you explained could be very simply averted by following how nature has worked around this problem already avoiding the need for a artificial womb.

Also there would be no problem of uneven distribution of the sex, it could still be essentially 50/50 if we made peoples body switch according to the people they're around to make certain they have a mate available. For example (be warned this is going to be awkward for us cultured people) if your friends are all male and suddenly you are all hermaphrodites, say all 10 of you, then 5 of you will turn female.

This would also avoid the issue of some people having all girls or boys as children which does happen because even if they start out that way, they would adapt to the need of the situation throughout their lives.

>>2361175
Hmm, I wonder. I only like pleasure obtained through the reward pathways because I have them, thus I like it by definition, it's not physically possible for me to not like such qualia. Wether we actually need them or they are useful (beyond biological motivations) is another question. Still, I do wonder how a system which was basically an abstracted human neocortex (and possibly thalamus too) function. No reward pathways, no primal goals/fears to guide it. Just pure undirected intellligence. I really wonder how would this intelligence find goals for itself. Even if a lot of my goals are complex and seemingly unrelated to biological imperatives, I can somehow trace them to really far biological imperatives if I want to, I'm still unsure if that's just me rationalizing my goals or just my subconscious desires.

At first I thought - oh that's nice, maybe I won't have to risk passing on shit like psoriasis to my kids.

Then I thought... we don't even know what genes are triggering psoriasis.

Then I realized how I have a disease that I'm definitely giving to my kids, and is currently not treatable in any ways you'd enjoy.

>mfw

>>2361185
not asking a question. shivering at what constitutes slavering masses forever baying at my windows.

>>2361193
Well a better option would just be to go mostly machine and make as many as you want. Or let everyone have the ability to make a baby tube on their own and just grow a kid based on a genome acquired through recombination or or gamete fusing. That way you could make new humans under any circumstances and don't have to encumber workers with pregnancy.

With the amount of genetic enginering needed for the hermaphrodite thing you might ass well just say fuck it an go all mechanical.

>>2361221
Did the plight of the Asgard teach you nothing?!

>>2361221
Yes but that doesn't sound as fun in my opinion. Don't you like a challenge anyway tho? And you could make pregnancy very rewarding by making it orgasmic to be going through it.

Also I know that most men and women would occasionally like to be the other sex due to boredom with their own bodies state.

>>2361193
On an entertaining note, I'm reminded of Ren/Run from To-Love-Ru that switches genders/personalities whenever he/she sneezes. If only reality was so awesome.

>>2361209
Well even and artificial lifeform is still subject to environmental selection. That is to say that artificial intelligences that don't reproduce they will eventually wear out, be broken by accident, or be outcompeted by those that do. So if we become more mechanical we should hardwire in self preservation and reproductive compulsions. But pleasure is not needed. Liking something is not needed to make you do it, only the undeniable compulsion is needed.

>>2361249
I agree the pleasure is not a necessity but to cause pain or lack of anything feeling all together is just plain nihilism. It works, but its not fun.

>>2361227
Soft scifi show. Should just keep a copy of the original genome instead of making copies of degraded ones. Never go mechanical to avoid this problem.

Stupid xenos are stupid.

>>2361249
So instead of carrot-and-stick, you'll just make it all stick, huh?

Fuck no. We have enough people who hate their life as it is.

>>2361083
>Wouldn't be surprised if we see testosterone treatments for male fetuses in a couple years.

this was already tried by a Dr. in Germany in the 1980's 90's. it's not the testosterone, it's the stress hormones. the pregnant mother's anxiety correlates better with homosexuality of her son

>>2361249
I still have a lot of trouble understanding pleasure/pain in humans and what are they truly. The qualia that I feel are distinctly unique that I can classify things as like/dislike, and these concepts are quite irreductible to me. I have some doubts that no form of pleasure/displeasure would not arise if you tried to hardwire some form of compulsion.

>>2361231
Yes but that doesn't sound as fun in my opinion. Don't you like a challenge anyway tho? And you could make pregnancy very rewarding by making it orgasmic to be going through it.
>No I only care about my survival the propagation of my genes and ideas. And it's not really rewarding, I don't like it or dislike it. It's just an instinct, it's what I am I don't care why or if it feels good. Pleasure and pain are distractions, I wish we didn't have them and we probably should discard them.

>Also I know that most men and women would occasionally like to be the other sex due to boredom with their own bodies state.
I've never heard anyone I know say that. Then again I am a boring guy, sameness doesn't bother me so long as it works. If it doesn't work as good to the different thing, if it works best stay the same until something better comes along. But I've never taken my vacation time, so make of that what you will.

>>2361231
<< /y/ is that way <<

I vote for hermaphrodites. The whole mechanical reproduction approach seems very depressing.

>>2361287
Don't confuse various forms of autogynephilia with homosexuality. Completly different beasts.

>>2361259
>>2361261
>nihilism
No that would be if you don't care about anything, you'd still care about doing things but the only motivation would be mindless compulsion. I must make copies and recombinate/modify designs with the help of other human derived organisms. Why? Doesn't matter, fuck it.

It just cuts out the middle man of "this makes me happy" or "I find this interesting". No happiness or unhappiness. The needed compulsions I can think of off the top of my head are: cooperation when desirable, aggression when differences are irreconcilable, reproduction, self preservation, protection of related individuals, improvement/modification of self and offspring.

Can anybody think of any others

>>2361286
>pleasurable whelping

zomg yes the plague of underclass will finally unbalance the current power stasis

>>2361286
>I am a boring guy
I can tell, try and get around some.

>>2361289
Curious, any predisposition toward homosexuality is supposed to be like 1-5%(usually given as2%) of the population. This gender change thing must be even less common. So like >1% or what?

>>>2361289
But you couldn't be depressed, or happy. You'd just do whatever you think is best for survival and propagation at the moment an feel nothing.

>>2361294
I'm not.

<< they can go to /d/ as well <<

>>2361347
so butthurt

>>2361360
Mammal hermaphrodites are incredibly rare, and aren't the successful kind(human hermaphrodites specifically). However there are signs that mammals in some cases are starting to adapt this method of reproduction as its very beneficial.

Whats being discussed is if we can make humans adopt this highly successful breeding program.

>>2361289
But you get true pseudoimmortality with it. You get to back up your brain, you don't have to worry about cancers or random mutations, etc. It also comes with the usual disadvantages of wear and tear, at least without some sort of nanomachines getting involved.
>>2361360
I don't know about gender change, but I think a lot of these are just learned fetishes. For example, various forms of autogynephilia are incredibly common in /jp/ (everyone wants to be the little girl or whatever). Hell, after thinking a bit about it, I realized I wouldn't mind such a fetish myself, even though I have no interest in actually proceeding with anything like this due to inherent limitations of current science. Hence, it's just a fetish. It doesn't even have anything to do with homosexuality, it's basically a sort of curiosity of "what would it be like if xx would be different".

>>2361412
I don't think you are understanding.

>>2361423
Maybe we are talking about different things. To what point did you write that response to?

>>2361404
I just don't think it would be successful for viviparous organisms. Specifically placental mammals and humans above all. The size of the human head forces the hips of childbearing organisms to be constucted a certain way. And right now our childern are born very underdeveloped compared to most organism, they're practically shit out as soon as they have a working respiratory system. I just don't think we can have the young born early enough, the adults birth canal be big enough(see the problems making the human body more than 7 feet tall), or the sex change thing able to alter the skeletal structures of adult humans to accommodate this plan. There is a real physical reason why organisms the have large eggs or live birth are not hermaphroditic.

There seem to be few benefits that can't be achieved other ways much easier. Unless you want to give everybody feminine figures.

>>2361453
>everyone feminine figures
Hell yes.