/sci/ - Science & Math

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well, that was easy. next question op!

I was asking to see if anyone here, on /sci/ has seen it.

Should have been more specific.. This.. being /sci/ and all.

:D

>>2335483
yes, we had a thread about it before, it's probably still around somewhere, since /sci/ is so slow

I suppose I should frequent this more often then. :)

>>2335488
it's cool
we can talk about it again.
some people were saying that we should be like orks
in the sense that we don't have to be a fucking englighted species, and we could still be dirty and greedy and make it to space.

I disagree though.

>>2335490
We are dirty and greedy now, and we made it to the Moon. If we remain so, we will probably still manage to colonize and war across the stars.

Besides, a truly enlightened species wouldn't need to go anywhere at all.

>>2335490
>orks
>constant warfare, unhealthy expansion, and widespread stupidity
>civilization without strife, advanced technology, increased happiness and standard of living

Sounds feckin' awesome.

>>2335495
star trek? hello?
to explore and boldly go where no one has ever gone before.
as they say in the video: imagine in 2000 years, or 5000 years. If we have mastered space travel.
Imagine that humans are no longer confined to earth.

I don't think we are that "enlightened" sure.. we've evolved and progessed moreso than other species..

But we're destroying ourselves. No other species can..either.

I can't really grasp it. Are we so evolved? Then why kill each other, Why war? Why pollution?

>>2335502
they don't say in the video that we are that.
They say that one day we will.

>>2335500
>star trek? hello?

Exactly which faction in Star Trek is enlightened? I know the Federation claims to be what is, essentially, a communist utopia, but anyone who has actually watched the show knows that isn't true at all.

>to explore and boldly go where no one has ever gone before.

Yes. We do that now. We have done that since before we mastered fire.

>as they say in the video: imagine in 2000 years, or 5000 years. If we have mastered space travel.

It's a nice thought.

>Imagine that humans are no longer confined to earth.

We haven't needed to be for years now. But the amount of resources we would need to expend to establish self-sufficient colonies elsewhere in the solar system makes it prohibitively costly.

>>2335502
Of course, evolution does not produce species that kill their own or other species. *cough*

We are the apex species on this planet. We are an evolutionary success. If we manage to kill ourselves and/or the whole biosphere off, then we will be a failure. A dead end. But that's all. Perhaps another biosphere will fare better.

>>2335514
If evolution doesn't create this.. a species that kills it's own and others.

What does

>>2335529
Sarcasm bypass complete.

It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri, and the other nearby stars. It will be a species very like us - but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses.

>>2335536
I think you mean "it will not be us".

"It will not be we" is grammatically incorrect.

>>2335540
I just copied it from the first reddit link

>>2335536

>>2335540
The day, Grammar came to /sci/

>>2335546
Sorry but the post seemed to be trying to be deliberately pretentious. So I called it out.

>>2335561
Dude. Chill. Smoke trees.

by the time humans reach other stars i bet they'll look like this

Sagan was wrong, being the deluded optimist that he was.
The chances of self destruction rapidly approaches one as time progresses along with technological advancement, especially in the hands of such blood-thirsty, xenophobic, greedy, envious, war-like and generally self-destructive species as humans.

The whole social evolution into a society with "more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses" argument is highly invalid and downright childish.

Having that said, I have a great deal of respect for that man.

>>2335578

you have no credibility to calm Sagan was wrong in anyway, and in doing so proves your ignorance in what Sagan was truly prodding at. you've missed his points which is ok, it means you need to keep searching like me and most others.

>>2335614
>Missed his points.
I did not.
They are noble, albeit utterly unrealistic.
But I guess every scientist needs to have some sort of vision for the future to keep him going, no matter how improbable.

>>2335622

>albeit utterly unrealistic.

open your mind, man. Sagan is speaking to <b>you</b>

>>2335578
Oh, boy! The hypocrisy. Fortunately, you're not in a position of power.

>>2335628
God damn it man, don't make it any harder than it already is.
He's a childhood hero exactly for those reasons - hope.
But I'm not a child any more and I've seen exactly where this rotting world is headed for.
Trust me, it bothers me sufficiently as a physics major.

Taking bets now on your estimate of when we'll destroy ourselves!

>>2335477
Everything scientists discover is for the sole purpose of being commercially exploited. Scientists know it. But some, like Sagan got high and dreamed. It's funny when money hungry cunts praise Sagan.
Humanity is not going to destroy itself. Believing the opposite is laughable and immature.

>>2335674
Sure humanity would never destroy itself, but it sure would destroy each other if given half the chance.

>>2335652

imagine for a moment who Carl Sagan really was, and now imagine if you had as much influence on the world as he did (in terms of young inspiring minds looking for someone to follow). he was no man of false hope, he used guidance and wisdom well beyond the years of you or me to predict what some would say is the ultimate destiny of our universe. if you're nothing but humble you can receive only knowledge

>>2335692
>>2335658
>>2335650
>>2335628
>>2335614
>No argument.

>>2335702

>irony
>double irony

Humanity will not destroy itself.

We are breeding beyond measure with great environmental consequences at that.
Our technology is not even remotely as advanced as that which would be required to undo this damage or take us to other planets in a reasonable time frame.
We are attempting an exponential/logistical growth pattern on a highly limited and closed planet.
This is just a part of the problem.

Now, you may argue that humanity is headed for an unprecedented disaster that still will not completely annihilate us, but will cripple us deeply into yet another bound state.

Given our unchanging nature for the foreseeable future, this could very well be a cycle of destruction that could last for millennia untold.

I just do not see a Sagan-like utopia for our particular species, or for any that may evolve from ours.

>>2335717
Not a shred of irony.
>>2335718
>Not a shred of argument.

>>2335739
We have the next 70 years in which the fate of humanity will be uncertain. The second we have a self-sustaining colony on Mars is the second when we become a dual-planet species.

>>2335732

I agree on every point except:

>cripple us deeply into yet another bound state.

this is something our planet could use to advantage. everyone on the planet could use a wake up call in a sense. what brings people closer together than a fortunate 'disaster'?

>I just do not see a Sagan-like utopia for our particular species, or for any that may evolve from ours.

the open minded see the truth in different things: the narrow minded see only the differences. our species is no different than any other throughout time and space. just because we are at turning points in history is no reason to give up on yourself or humanity.

There was our region of the galaxy; there was our world. I had found the entry for earth: HUMANITY: THIRD FROM THE SUN. They had heard our television broadcasts and thought them an application for cosmic citizenship. Our technology had been growing enormously (they got that right). Two hundred nation states, about six global powers, the potential to become one planet. Probability of survival over a century -- here, also, less than one percent. So, it was nuclear war, a full nuclear exchange.

There would be no more big questions, no more answers. Never again a love or a child; no descendents to remember us and be proud; no more voyages to the stars, no more songs from the earth.

I saw east Africa and thought, "a few million years ago we humans took our first steps there. Our brains grew and changed. The old parts began to be guided by the new parts, and this made us human -- with compassion and foresight and reason. But, instead, we listened to that reptilian voice within us, counseling fear, territoriality and aggression. We accepted the products of science; we rejected its methods".

Maybe the reptiles will evolve intelligence once more. Perhaps, one day, there will be civilizations again on earth. There will be life, there will be intelligence; but there will be no more humans -- not here, not in a billion worlds.

godfuckingdamed I cried.

>>2335739
not a shred of brain

>>2335739

thank you for adding nothing to the discussion. you're so bent on a logical argument defined by a definition that you don't see there is more to it than just that. why don't you write down what you really wish to on the topic?

>>2335818

that is brilliant

I want to email this to my physics teacher who is teaching astronomy right now so he can show it to his class and inspire them, but I don't want to come off as a faggot teachers pet.

what do.

>>2335861
Your teacher will be glad that you show a big interest in the subject and related ones. Just email him asking him to watch it, and if he likes it to maybe show the class. but that you wish to remain anonymous if he does so.

>>2335861
post link with that text

>>2335861
you could email it to him.

"hey have you seen this cool video?"

>>2335818
>oh lawd, again and again with the typical cold war 'nucular' cataclysm hysteria =))
y'all need to wake up

>>2335878
>>2335875
>>2335873

Alright, I will.

Also, love the video. Wish I got a chance to minor in astronomy or at least take a class in it, since I'm, majoring in ME.

Love that stuff.

>>2335877
Did you not watch Cosmos or something?

>>2335718
[citation needed]
You just wait until fresh water shortages begin.

>>2336783
You just wait till TRS is up.

>>2336796
>Implying that Tasmania would be left unharmed.

>>2337753

I wonder how long it would take before the Tasmanian government realized we were there and had started a city. Would be awesome if it took 6 months - 1 year if we're in a remote region and already had buildings going up.

>>2337796
I don't know what the Tasmanian gov't is like, but I'd imagine they would be more willing to tolerate you if you cleared it with the right officials first.

>>2337796
Secrecy is the key to our success.
>>2337805
We will make it in their best interests, with technological rights, the rent-a-factory trading system, and playing on the fact that Tasmanians are very Greens-oriented people, by ensuring even better laws for the environment. Not to mention we'd be a practically carbon-neutral society.

>>2337863
>Secrecy is the key to our success.
You're a moron. Bureaucracies do NOT like being bypassed. They also don't like squatters who don't pay taxes. But if you pull the right strings and pay taxes, you'll be ignored.

>>2337874
We are not an Australian state or colony. They wouldn't even think of military action because of the large amount of Australians and other former first-world country citizens already living in it. Everyone working on the project would be guaranteed a spot on TRS, and that will likely be around 10,000 people. And like I've said, the point of TRS is to show a system with living standards that will blow everyone else out of the water.

>>2337892
I'm just saying, how you deal with the outside world is where the rubber hits the road in your grip on reality. As I said, I don't know what the Tasmanian government is like. What about illegal immigration.

>>2337905
Well generally the Australian government neglects Tasmania, y'know not being connected to the mainland and all. Illegal immigration will be a minimal problem, as to buy services and products you require a card (or the future equivalent) which is registered to you to buy. If you're not on the system, you need to rely completely on someone inside the system with their own card. If they are discovered they have the option of either going to university and finishing with at least a Credit 2 average (going on Aussie uni grades) or they are deported. As for people physically coming to the country via boat or whatever, they would first have to get past Australian border security or make the entire trip all the way down to our end of Tasmania, which is relatively isolated, geographically speaking.