/sci/ - Science & Math

It's a test for mankind to intervene.

/thread

>>2324218
>he controls everything yet creates a test

sounds pretty fuckin stupid to me

posting in an admin thread

my name is alan turing

if god is omniscient then before he created everything he knew how it would turn out thus no free will

>bitch about fucking up free will
>bitch about god's total control

atheists just bitch all the damn time

fuckin' god

is stupid thing, fuck it off .man

>>2324232

That's not how free will works. Thanks for playing.

checkem

>>2324239
>created us knowing what we would do
>we cannot change it
wakarimasen lol

>>2324224

Mankind has to prove their righteousness. Educate yourself please.

>>2324234

it's what they're best at

mods suck ass

>>2324245

admin rights for singles?

shit count me in

>>2324218
>It's a test for mankind to intervene.

If God is omniscient why does he need to do that?

Religion was made to control the small, narrow minded.

Fucking scare tactics, we'll kill you if you don't believe in Jesus,

bitch.

/admin thread

this thread confuses me
please help
it hurts in my head

>>2324258

i am hungry.

>>2324264

He doesn't need to do anything. This is a pretty good explanation though.

http://godandscience.org/apologetics/natural_evil_theodicity.html

We are here to experience pain because we never knew good.

>>2324286
i am still hungry

>>2324279

if god is real then why are you hungry

atheists: 9002
christfags: 0

1. Does god know man's actions before they occur?
2. Is god responsible for creating man's nature in all its aspects?
3. Can god set about making things happen in any manner he chooses?

1: Yes: Then any thing that he leaves up to "free will" is akin to standing idly by while people get run over by cars. He sees the danger coming, yet he doesn't care.
1: No: Then he doesn't have a very good knowledge of what will happen. While I don't have much problem with that, it does say something about the supposed impregnable nature of "his plans".
2:Yes: Then he directly caused rape by giving man the desire to rape. If the devil tempts man, it's a testament to his evil. If God tempts man into doing evil, it's a means to do good. How do you make the distinction? Also, the devil is a pretty flawed concept that I assume no one who reflects a second on their belief would entertain as possible. An omnipotent being who knows how all will turn out makes the devil and then when the devil causes untold suffering, does nothing but banish him and allow him to continue his work? Please.
2: No: Then who is responsible for the nature of man? Deists need not respond.
3. Yes: Then why must he set about elaborate mechanisms where he hurts millions for no apparent reason? Is he not creative enough to employ strategies that would at least allow for the equality of everyone at birth? Why would he not give some people a chance at this earth?
3: No: Then he's pretty fucking stupid if he can program the DNA of a dozen different kinds of octopuses but can only think of one way to skin a cat, so to speak.

Lol, all sound like 15 year old newfags, atheists always after christians cause its convenient to western society, not able to understand the idea of a fluxuating systems and intersystemal cohesion supporting a mathematical proof of the existence of independent choices within a predetermined environment. GET A LIFE.

if god is real, why are there snakes?

"hissings apparent"

It's funny how atheists never stop and consider that, if God exists, He is way smarter than any human ever and He probably knows what He's doing.

And none of these arguments they present really lead to the conclusion that God doesn't exist. All they're really saying is that they think God is a big meanie and so they're just not going to believe in Him.

sign me up

>>2324320
The subject of God's existence has been beaten to death. It always boils down to "personal experience" i.e. the effects similar to entheogens that some people experience sometimes independent of the drug of Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation.

Once it's clear that they won't listen to reason, pointing out that worshiping a god that works really hard at fucking up your day is just for fun.

>>2324336
OR transcranial magnetic stimulation.

>>2324320
atheism doesn't state that god doesn't exist.

it says that given our present knowledge of the universe, existence of god is:
a) not required for the universe to work
b) highly improbable
c) impossible to prove

if god is real then why are christfags so unhappy?

>>2324336
You should check out a guy named Greg Bahnsen. In my opinion, he was one of the greatest Christian apologists ever.
Here: http://www.youtube.com/user/gregbahnsen

If you're willing to take the time to listen to some of his arguments, he really does a way better job than a lot of the mainstream Christians like Ray Comfort or whoever.

>>2324341
Atheism may not say that God doesn't exist, but atheists do say that God doesn't exist. They say it all the time and we all know it.

>>2324346

>>2324354
Quick, does he use any form of the following:
X is true.
X, therefore Y.
Y, cannot be explained right now, or the only explanation I can think of is god.
Therefore god exists.

Because i've heard that about a thousand times, and it gets stupider every single time.

>>2324362
>but atheists do say that God doesn't exist
that's gnostic atheism, aka antitheism.

majority of atheists are agnostic. any other position isn't logical.

>>2324362
Theism may not say that God exist, but theists do say that God exists. They say it all the time and we all know it.

>>2324311
>Lol, all sound like 15 year old newfags, atheists always after christians cause its convenient to western society, not able to understand the idea of a fluxuating systems and intersystemal cohesion supporting a mathematical proof of the existence of independent choices within a predetermined environment. GET A LIFE.
1. Science board with religious interference. If you don't like actually thinking you should be here.
2. Those words you said weren't as meaningful as you thought they'd come across as. When the audience actually understands the words you're using and how you're applying them you just sound idiotic, especially because the point you make so badly is irrelevant. Independence of choice does not imply the lack of responsibility in influence and the lack of obligation to intervention. Put to guys in a an arena, give them each a knife, and starve them. One killing the other was just a choice, right?
3. Imaginary friends are only good for your health when they don't beat up your mother and steal your girlfriend, or vice versa. Passing those friends onto your kids is probably going to end up being problematic for their moral development.

>>2324368
No, you're good. Bahnsen was an extremely intelligent person. I highly recommend listening to his debate with Gordon Stein.

>mfw definition of science excludes supernatural phenomena.

>>2324378
>extremely intelligent
>believes in gods
hahaha oh wow

>>2324380

>>2324378
>extremely intelligent
>died due to heart failures and complication

how's that God treating you?

>>2324390

Thank you kind sir or ma'am.

>>2324378
I've listened to some pretty respectable apologists, and all their arguments were terrible. It always comes down to the notion that causality is necessary therefore god is a cause but causality isn't necessary for god. It's a chain of creating a rule and exception at the same time and expecting it follows.

There's no good apologetic arguments that come close. That's the only argument for Deism, the least "I ignore all facts and magic did it" religion. With christian apologists you get into a weaving intertwining fucking wicker basket of argument that don't hold up in the least, but appear to hold up *just a little bit* at first glance, so people think "well 1000 bits of arguments make a solid one, right?"

The trouble with serious high level apologist vs atheist debate is that eventually the atheist has to allow some amount of lateral to keep the discussion going, as it is in this thread. As soon as that happens it's like he was never unable to establish that god exists in the first place and the Theists come out thinking they gained some sort of ground.

>>2324378
>first five minutes perusing
>Greg Bahnsen - Worldviews in Conflict (part 1)
>you will not be taking an open-minded approach to your studies.
Oh I bet this guy is a real winner.

Give me admin too

LOL basic training for "defending the faith". This is definitely a guy who understand burden of proof and is presenting an intellectually honest argument.

>Righted Admin Grants
>Nothing changes
;_;

can i have admin rights?

>>2324401
read terry eagleton's reason faith and revolution
i think he does a good job of framing religion for what it really is, rather than trying to prove the literal existence of a god

If god isn't real, then why do good things happen?

>>2324395
>Implying that anyone dying means God hates them.

>>2324424
i'd think that dying naturally and peacefully due to old age is better than dying in your last forties due to heart failure

Bahnsen's basic premise is that the proof of the Christian worldview is that, without it, you couldn't prove anything. Which is true.

>>2324439

And this means God doesn't exist how?

The dude needed a bath.

>Come to /sci/
>See this thread
>Will never post here again

>>2324441
What? No. There's no truth to that or reasoning behind it. It's a result of the premise of the universe BEING god, so when you think of a world without god it's so alien to you it must be irrational!

But it isn't irrational at all.

>>2324465
The premise isn't that the universe is God. The premise is that God has transcendental characteristics that put Him outside the universe.

i am still hungry and no admin.

>>2324443
>devout christian argues for gods existence all his life
>dies in late forties

>sinful atheist kills murders robs cheats steals all his life
>dies rich, peacefully, late eighties

why

>>2324502
Christians (like me) will consider that scenario from the perspective that there is an afterlife.

>>2324441
>the proof of the Christian worldview is that, without it, you couldn't prove anything.
logic was invented before christianity

>>2324507
>Christians (like me)

>>2324507
>Christians (like me)

LMAO

>>2324507
>>2324507

>Christians (like me)

>>2324507
>believes in imaginary friends

>>2324507

>>2324507
you'll go to hell anyway, because you are posting on 4chan

>>2324507
>Christians (like me)

R U Serious?

There are so many possible solutions given potential definitions for God, you are all so uncreative and dumb.

> God
> Christianity

I FOUND THE PROBLEM

>>2325867
There are so many possible solutions given potential definitions for Santa Clause, you are all so uncreative and dumb.

YOU FAIL AT BASIC LOGIC SON!

>>2325817
>>2325803
>>2325796
>>2325792
>>2325786
>>2325784
>thread 10 hours old
>samefagbomb

pic related to this thread

I'm reassured by the fact that atheists continue to spout nonsense and insults while the rest of us actually use the brains God gave us.

>>2325930

wait wait wait WHAT ? , lets say God exists ( not the christianity faggotry , but a God that still follows the physics and shit ) , God gave us a "start" and from that start , we started to evolve to suit our enviroment , so it was US who evolved that brain until it became like this , God only gave us the "start"

perhaps I should be more clear....

>>2324202
The POWER LEVEL of atheists is over 9000!

>>2325947
You know it's a troll.
This season, celebrate reason!

>>2325947
Why would I worship a god who is bound by the laws of physics?

>>2325959
>>2325896

>creationist detected

>>2325947
>lets say God exists

>>2325961

>>2325972
...because he/she is smarter than you ? i mean , even if he is still bound by it , can you create complex life out of fucking water , ground , UV rays and air ?

>>2325993
How could a god who is bound by the laws of physics create something from nothing?

>>2326000

from nothing? who said "nothing" , you can grow herbs just by watering the ground or lets say that he cant "create" , but maybe he can give a proper environment using material from space and placing it in the earth , thus making it using space resource

tl;dr we are his physics school project

>>2326023
I believe in the God of the Christian worldview who is omnipotent, not your pathetic, weak hypothetical god.

>>2326000
universe is still "nothing". total sum of energy in the universe is zero.
it needsno input to be created. it can happen spontaneously.

>>2326027
my God can kick your God's ass any time , so bring it on

>>2326027
omnipotent.
can he create a rock so heavy, that he can't lift it?

>>2325993
So now you are worshipping aliens simply becuase they are smarter then you?

I don't think that ends well for the humans,

>>2326029

Who said that God have to create the universe , He is just experimenting using the other planet's resource or , and was born after the big bang and shit

The God im talking is no "OHH IM OMNIPOTENT AND OMNISCIENT YOU ARE GOING TO DO WHAT I WANT" im talking about a God that "experiments" to reach major knowledge using every kind of material from the space , that God is NOT Omniscient , neither Omnipotent , but knows a lot of secrets of the universe that we ignore

>>2326057
I say that movie too bro.

>>2326057
I can basically define god however the fuck I want, according to you. Right?

>>2326072

yeah , pretty much thats a God that fits /sci/ tastes

honestly...

>>2326042
Being all-powerful means that God has the power to limit himself if He chooses. If God were to manifest in physical form, He could theoretically be physically weak enough to be incapable of lifting a heavy enough object.
There are certain things God can't do. God can't lie or commit sin, for example. The question I would ask you is what part of your naturalist worldview provided you with an objective basis for the logic you use to discern rationality from irrationality?

>>2326079

well i was just giving a theory , what is your theory using physics and shit ?

>>2326084
But why even define a God then?
I could define a dog as god.
I don't see the fucking purpose of it all?

>>2326090
>christian

You are a person who believes in imaginary friends. You have a mental disorder. Why the fuck should anyone listen to you shit?

Go get some help bro!

>>2326099

well , that would be a God that fits /sci/ tastes but is still a theory , we still dont know a lot about the universe and maybe we are missing something , but is still a theory of what God is and maybe im wrong with that theory and the reality is another thing

>>2325884
What? Potential definitions for Santa Claus?

Right, what's your point? How does this prove me wrong, fucktard? Call me son again and you'll meet your real daddy soon.

>>2326092
Theory of what? for what? What would be the purpose of the theory?

You basically are making up bullshit (god). Then trying to thoerize about the bullshit you made up? Why?

>>2326116
hey son, if god is real why nothing happen when i pray?

>>2326116
LMAO

It's ok son. Maybe one day when you grow up you will understand logic. Remember to brush your teeth and eat your vegatables!

>>2326122

im just saying its a theory i made to explain God's existant , its not going to be 100% truth and maybe its 0% true so just calm down dude , im just trying to make sense of something irreal so thats why it looks like bullshit ( in my case , more like Stargate )like those threads on /a/ that tries to make sense of Accelerator's power

>>2326128
that's funny since i dont pray because everything i pray for comes real?

God is not real, the God they talk about in the bible is aliens, the god before that is basically tech support since life is a paid vacation from some slavery existence. reality/universe was not created by any God we can fathom in the context of matter and temporal/space correlations

so basically you're a lying fagot, anything you want is given to you as long as it is not im-possible (immediately possible)

>>2326145
>brush your teeth

so underrated

>>2326166
the funny thing is that i understand nothing because i don't speak english! HA HA HA HA.