/sci/ - Science & Math

He's using a magnet.

>>2314130
I do believe he is.

> natural energy emitted from his hand

Why does nobody understand what energy is?

>>2314126
video editing

>>2314130

In what form?

>>2314142
That is strong energy. I think it's either shopped, or he used a lighter.

where do i send my money to this wisegodman

You want me to debunk a quack from cherry-picked propaganda footage?

Acupuncture and chi are one part ancient trial-and-error understanding of the human nervous system, and two parts mysticism (bullshit).

In the paper trick, he is deliberately using sleight of hand to deceive people into thinking he has magical powers. Fuck him.

There's a very simple reason he's pissed about video being leaked, and generally refuses to be taped. He knows he's a liar, and doesn't want to be found out. Just like all other charlatans asked to help others understand and examine their methods.

fuck this.

how about we appraise him as the second coming and when enough people believe prove all his powers wrong. then we show how jesus did the same thing.

western scientific thought isn't good at explaining anything outside of the west.

meditation is mentioned several times in the video and poo poo'd as worthless in our society. if the video is 100% real I could see it plausible that he is manipulating the fields of energy in and outside of his body to operate beyond what we consider normal.

squib charge or delayed chemical ignition


magicians world round do this shit everyday while telling peeps it all horse shit.

a simple battery operated negative ion generator with the output hitting the ground and a tiny switch in the heel of his well insulated shoes can produce one hell of a jolt to anyone touching him easily enough.

let us see that again barefoot mr wizard.

I saw this on ripleys and he was filmed with a thermal camera and it got hot as fuck

they told which energy it was : chi.

follow a bit before asking /sci/

気

>>2314302
Oh that energy. It all makes sense now.

>he sought me out
>help with eye problem
>wears eye-patch for documentary

mkay...

Let's start with the foundation. It's obvious from the video he channels heat to different parts of his body as well as the hand, and various people in the video feel the heat from his body.

Magic-trick explanations aside, and assuming this is possible within the human body through some means of meditation. Explain the process in which this takes place.

>Less interested in gimmick theories on how to ignite paper, more interested in the selective body heat.

What kind of idiot scientists would use a cheap digital multimeter for those kind of measurements?

Ever heard of an oscilloscope? He's probably using a portable high frequency electric shock device.

He probably just palmed a match when his hand was hidden behind the newspaper

>>2314328
okie dokie...

Tumo is a real discipline, but it is not magic.

If you are interested in trying it yourself, do the following.

1. Sit cross legged with your spine straight.

2. Relax your arms, hands feet and legs as profoundly as you can. This will open up the capillaries in the skin if done well. Just relaxing, again this takes no magic.

3. Now, pull your stomach in all the way while exhaling. This should make your stomach muscles very tight, but keep the rest of you, the parts not being used, relaxed. The tightening of your diaphragm, intercostal muscles and abdominal muscles will cause your metabolic rate to rise, due to the work preformed.

4. Keeping you abdominal muscles tight, draw a deep breath in, you will feel yourself working hard to draw this breath, as your diaphragm overpowers your abdominal muscles. You will feel increased blood pressure as well, which is why your hands and feet must be relaxed. (arms and legs as well.)

5. Breath slowly as to not hyperventilate. But take deep, full breaths, with the air going all the way in and pushing the last of the air you can out with force on each exhalation.

Do this for a minute to get a feel of real warming, five minutes to get up to a good clip warmer than average.

At about half an hour, if you keep going, you will be able to do what the monks do...stay warm enough during mid winter and dry out sheets drenched in the icy waters of a nearby river draped across your bear torso.

Diligence and decades of practice, and you will learn to do this with any body part you choose.


Remember, before you think you're hot shit...

These monks do it for up to eight hours at a time. Most of their lives.
Diligence is key.

Zero point energy.
Awwwwww yeahh..

>>2314130
>>2314139
>>2314149

ITT: Fucking newfags.

People from all over rural parts of the World do similar shit like this trying to pass it off as a "power" and in the end it all stems from the same thing: Electrical energy. It's not new but still fascinating. These people have some sort of ability to allow electrical current to flow through their bodies without fucking up muscle tissue/the heart etc...so they're able to basically touch electrical shit and are able to be exposed to an abnormal amount of amps/voltage without dying.

>>2314380
Also, I think the key is to remain celibate. Every time you come you discard that power, which is why monks tie their penises up and never use them.

>>2314398
>so they're able to basically touch electrical shit and are able to be exposed to an abnormal amount of amps/voltage without dying.

>>2314399
i see you haven't met to many monks then...

especially when they leave the temple

>>2314399
lost interest there

>>2314403

Type o you fucking faggot. You know what I meant.

>>2314412
look around you man

did you forget where you are?

I would never make such a wild assumption, least of all here.

>>2314410
>monks
>celibate

>some guy from java uses incredibly complex sfx equipment to produce seemingly paranormal events
>hie equipment is so advanced it leaves no trace of its existence
>however this advanced equipment must exist because chi doesn't
>qed

>>2314426
>implying Miroku wasn't over the top with his hitting on women to ensure that he would never have sex, fulfilling his celibacy requirements

hey spiritfags, your shit now belongs to science. stop fucking with the other interactions now.

>>2314432
gosh no...the gadget is by no means complex.
i could cobble together one from most city dumpsters in about half an hour

and it's simple enough to disprove the notion of any sort of device being employed.

but of course doing such things in skintight briefs disrupts his flow of chi...

to bad...an impasse all around

>>2314437
funny...i thought he ended up with three kids

twin girls and a boy if memory serves

How do we know this isn't possible? We don't have a complete model of physics.

>>2314456
>implying anyone watched more than 40 episodes of inuyasha before realizing it was shit after about 15
Still, his father was a monk, kinda debunking the whole celibacy thing.

>>2314301

if this is true and the were using a FLIR camera it's almost certain he was using something like linseed oil. wad up a paper bag doused in linseed oil, let it sit for some time, overnight, whatever. if you timed it right you could have it coming to flashpoint as you're doing the demonstration. just rubbing your hands together generates enough heat to ignite it.
That's how I would do it. I'm willing to bet I could replicate this using what I've outlined here within a month or so. It's really just about timing and then learning to control the oxygen.

>>2314460
we don't.

we do ways to produce the same effect however, and the simplicity is to glaring to ignore is all.

Indeed a bias choice.
Again, if someone wants to prove something to another they usually have to abide by that persons rule set of proof.
I believe our requirements of proof are modest and very basic given the ease of 'faking' the routine.
The opposition insists it is of a mystical nature how ever and insists it is the cause.
Cloak and dagger...secret squirrel shit.
then they spend a couple years in a forest until they realize and angst it is becoming a lost art.
We find this highly unreasonable.

what can you do? *shrugs*

>>2314460

this is no different than a modern western magician doing magic tricks and claiming they are actual spells he learned from some magic book

>>2314462
> there was no manga

>>2314475
>manga
Why would I spend effort reading emotional bullshit when I could spend less effort watching emotional bullshit?

>>2314276
>meditation is ... poo poo'd as worthless in our society

>>2314498
because then you miss out learning a new language and roughly 1/2 of the cultural humor contained within..

sorry...i forgot where i was for a second
do carry on

>>2314473
>Implying western magicians abide by a strict ruling passed through thousands of years.

Western magic was invented because they got butthurt after attempting what they saw some monk do and couldn't do it, thus inventing an artificial method.

>>2314521

>>2314521

>implying 'strict' superstitions and rituals can create magic in our world

>>2314505
And what I watched of inuyasha, I watched:
>puts on coolface
dubbed.

Convenience in the consumption of a story, bro. If I wanted to learn Japanese I'd be learning Japanese, which is incidentally more efficient than reading mangos.

>>2314521
yes.

i must have missed the episode where a monk makes a real tank vanish.


i swear i get smarter every day i am here

>>2314473

You are simply wrong.

This man is not some westernized pig, living decadantly for materialistic and hedonistic purposes. He clearly understands things about spiritual living that we do not. Disclaiming something only because you don't understand it shows ignorance.

>>2314537
very true.

not very entertaining though. Thus so much the more difficult to learn.

for me any ways. to each their own.

>>2314549
>This man is not some westernized pig, living decadantly for materialistic and hedonistic purposes

Because creating a spirituality centred around himself is totally not the actions sought by the power-hungry yes? Materialism is not the only decadence and the West is not the only decadent society.

>>2314549
for a non materialistic man, he certainly was dressed well compared to his vict....patients

yes.
Wandering around town electrocuting children and towns folk, sticking pins into nerve clusters, setting random fires,claiming you and you alone have the mystical knowledge to cure ailments in general, AND having the local population welcome you back with arms wide faces grinning when you wander by later for your services seems a respectable way of life

Truthfully i am jelly

>>2314549
Admiration of the possession of knowledge requires a demonstration of that held knowledge. If that's not a requirement for you, then go worship the people claiming the end of the world.

No, setting fire to paper on a street isn't a demonstration of superior knowledge, it's being an illusionist. If that guy was white you'd peg him as a con artist, but because he's of a strange culture to you your first instinct is respect.

>>2314607
No wonder he has such a big grin all the time.
I would too.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Also magick.

>>2314632

You lack culture. The society in which these people live does not strive for showmanship. They are not driven to be flashy, or seek attention.

why haven't the locals burned him as a witch yet?

warlock...whatever

I mean here, they run you up on assault and battery (lolz), fraud, and probably a whole host of shit i am not thinking of...

>>2314656
...he sought me out
...did you feel that? That's chi! you! your turn! rub my belly....*shrieks of pain* MAHAHAHA did you feel it?
...see? i don't have to touch it....*hhhhnnnngh* HAH! FIRE!


not very flashy at all nor attention seeking in any way.

i am convinced now. This cat is the bee's knees yo

This is so borderline /x/ and so stupid.

Anyway, how does having a stricter system or rules about any bullshit would make it real? We had fucking alchemy for centuries in the West and yet not a nugget of gold has been found to have been alchemized.

Well, the man is obviously a saiyan.

>>2314692
now you're just being a dick. If you know shit about the cultural paradigms, its quite true.

>>2314692

>He sought me out

The man who set flame to the paper did not. His son did.

>>2314656
They are just driven to charge money for treatments with knowledge that those treatments are phony? What's that called, extortion?

Personally, I put entertainment above extortion on the respect scale.

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8888

>>2314707

>Implying this argument has anything to do with the actual acupuncturist aspect of the man at all.

>>2314656
Yes, it does. Hocus pocus like that attracts gullible customers and keeps a business running.

I know someone who actually spent several months in Indonesia trying to find this guy. He said the locals really tried to protect the guy from foreigners. My friend, being white, never got to see him.

>>2314718

Again, these are capitalist ideals. While, naturally, any man would want his business to do well, you simply do not understand HOW different our cultures and ideals are.

>>2314702
well i don't.

please give me an example of a human culture in times past or present in which the 'magic wielders' of the particular society in question did not hold supreme power over the citizens through demonstrations that were not awe inspiring spectacles of wonder.

I might better understand if you did so.
I do have an open mind about such things, however your statement does not ring true with my limited life experiences.
I can not dismiss it out of hand based on that alone.
I am willing to learn, but reserve the right to make my own decision once the data is in my fat, sweaty, ham like fingers.

>>2314715
I was talking about his chi patients. And clearly since he's delivering an electric shock through his patients, he's not delusional. He's a con artist aiming to extort money.

How that can garner any respect from you is beyond me. Next you're telling me psychics like Sylvia Browne aren't extortionists and void of morals?

>>2314706
his son is a 'her'?

oh my...truely this man's mystical powers have no equal

i am enthralled

>>2314734

ONCE AGAIN,

Western ideals vs. Ancient Eastern ideals.

>>2314724
your continued brow beating will not resolve the matter.

Please enlighten us with a detail or two.
Throw us a bone so we can crack it open and feed on the nice marrow nestled inside.

>>2314724
No those are ideals of human nature. They do this to survive and have a good life.

>>2314744
ONCE AGAIN.

being westerners it's all we know.
Enlighten us.

>>2314744
So western ideals=not robbing people

Eastern Ideals=taking all of their money knowingly

Is killing native americans morally right because it's a part of our cultural history? Slave trade?

>>2314763
...it seems so.


i made a sad

Also: ideals != reality.

If it was real, the footage would be confiscated and he would end up on the Missing Persons list

>people start from the conclusion that it isn't real
>assume trickery is involved
>despite no evidence of trickery
>but we're still expected to believe this claim that has no evidence

stay classy, /sci/

>>2314810
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Troll.

>>2314810
Unreliable evidence gives you 0 evidence points. Not a fraction of one, not a number of points that infinitely approaches 0. 0 evidence points.

>>2314813
>implying electric equipment that leaves no trace of its existence isn't an extraordinary claim

>>2314810
Which is more likely? That he has mystical powers, or that he simply doesn't want his con examined too closely? All of his actions have simple explanations. Occam's Razor says he's a con artist until he can provide some better evidence.

>>2314810

I actually haven't made a conclusion about this. Seems too unreal, but I guess I have to see it to believe it. It would also be nice if there was an actual study to prove or disprove this rather than just film documentation.

>>2314820
Right. Because there wasn't any opportunity for him to hide a small high-voltage source.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8888

There's a reason he doesn't like being taped, guys.

>>2314820
>implying being allowed to conduct a simple search for said hidden electronics beforehand wouldn't clear the misconception right up

>>2314821
He has had several students of his practice. His work has stood up to their scrutiny and replication.
>>2314827
You don't know very much about his private life, do you? It is fairly well known among the nei kung community that his family has been threatened before because of his rather minor publicity. I wouldn't want any more either, if I were him.

>>2314831
I like your style.

>>2314810
Either:
A: Our understanding of physics is completely incorrect
or
B: Someone along the chain of human interaction with that video and the matters concerning it, some amount of deception occurred.

SCIENTISTS VS UNVERIFIABLE EVIDENCE. WELL, IT'S REALLY UP TO OPINION ISN'T IT GUYS.

>>2314837
LOL
His acolytes are hardly impartial. Also, if you *believe* he has powers, the placebo effect is very impressive.

>>2314813
You've demonstrated that no claims require any evidence

>>2314827
A pseudo-skeptic forum. Insightful

It sounds fake, in any case. Quit spreading the video because wackos are just going to use it as fuel as it's repeatedly debunked

>>2314842
>Our understanding of physics is completely incorrect

Well, it is. I mean, shit, it can't even handle consciousness, the most ubiquitous data of them all.

>>2314846
Actually I don't believe he has any powers. I've never met him myself.

>>2314831
right...the odd thing about scientists is once you perform your claims to their reasonable requests and you leave them going, "wtf?", they usually go away for a couple of months to a few centuries arguing amongst themselves.

One would think this is a desired goal to anyone bothered by their incessant hounding and demands of proof whenever you walk up in public and start spouting chi at everything that isn't nailed to the ground.

Indeed, it leaves me baffled to say the least

>>2314847
>You've demonstrated that no claims require any evidence
What? I can take this one of two ways.
"You've demonstrated that there are no claims which require evidence"
I said pretty much the opposite. Or,
"You haven't demonstrated that any claims require evidence"
I don't need to DEMONSTRATE that. Science is about accepting evidence - not presupposing it.

>>2314855
>implying this has ever occurred
LOL
You sir, are a brilliant troll.

>>2314855
Funny enough, when you walk out in public in Java to do chi magic stuff, the only people who shout for proof are behind computer screens half a world away.

>>2314857
wow

This woman has the power of the sun in her head.

Explain this shit /sci/
Also, checkmate atheists

>>2314857
so why are you presupposing evidence for deceit?

>>2314853
I was referring to his acolytes. They can swear up and down that he's had special effects on them - which amount to the placebo effect. They're not lying - just deceived. And the magic tricks that don't require all that much skill, like the small high-voltage source, or "moving" the delicately balanced knife.

>>2314870
Where's the sun in that picture?
I don't see it.

>>2314873
>placebo effect

Oh yeah, I forgot. The *acceptable* magic. Blame everything you don't understand on the placebo effect, regardless of whether or not there is any evidence for it being placebo. Ok.

In western knowledge there is a tremendous amount of knowledge on DC-based electricity and almost nothing published on static power/electricity. Almost all references (in this thread) to his "electric shock," overlook or assume on this major point.

>>2314872
The null hypothesis is that he doesn't have magical powers. There is not sufficient evidence to reject the null hypothesis. Therefore, I am not justified in believing he has magical powers.

If the balance of evidence were to tip the other way, I would gladly invest great interest in learning how he does it.

Another way of putting it: I've got two explanations that account for the observations (the video). Given all my other observations, one of then is far better supported (more likely) than the other: He's a con man.

>>2314865
James Randi has 1 million dollars for anyone that can reasonable demonstrate something supernatural under controlled condtions.

There are literally millions of people who try to do supernatural and outlandish shit like chi magic tricks. If any of them demonstrated that power to the scientific scientific community they'd be a million dollars richer.

Funny how these people can only con the world so long as they exist in an area far from any scientists and don't agree to any tests.

>>2314876
If you can't see it you aren't tuned into the solar energy flux. You must meditate first and channel energy into your third eye.

>>2314882
The placebo effect has limits. Show me something that goes beyond them.

This is fun. I've got mid-level trolls to sharpen my intellect on.

>>2314893
setting newspaper on fire, for example, is not something the placebo effect generally does

>>2314889
Didn't read the bit about his family being threatened, did you?

>>2314886
What fucking bullshit. I bet you also think we don't know how bees can fly.

>>2314882
A human interacting with a human in a certain way and having a certain effect on what he does isn't something we don't understand. Suicide cults, chiropractors, acupuncturists, homeopathy "experts". It all comes down to either collaboration, social influence, or the manipulation of a lesser mind.

This man claims he can affect the physical world in a way not described by science. If he could do that in a controlled setting, that claim would be valid. He can't, so he has 0 evidence for his power.

>>2314900
Suuuure.

>>2314882
I'm not that person, but this wreaks of placebo affect. That's not to say it isn't possible - it's just to say it's probably not happening here

>>2314896
That's an EASY parlor trick. He can't do it in a controlled setting, being searched first and given paper he hasn't had the chance to alter.

>>2314900
I read that. You're implying that he's the only person in the world capable of chi, an age-old idea held by at least hundreds of millions of people.

Individual circumstance isn't evidence of his powers.

>>2314913
what makes you think that shit is individual circumstance? are you really so stupid that you think mainstream scientific credibility is sought by everyone?

>>2314920
He doesn't have an obligation to seek credibility. But I don't have an obligation to consider his claims credible either.

>>2314920
He was claiming that threats to his family explains no one ever demonstrating the power of chi or a similar concept to a scientist or James Randi and company.

>There are literally millions of people who try to do supernatural and outlandish shit like chi magic tricks. If any of them demonstrated that power to the scientific scientific community they'd be a million dollars richer.
Ah, that old scam. Yeah there are several people who did their 'magic tricks' (things you're too dumb to grasp) under the controlled conditions without a problem. They got no money. People everywhere are reporting the whole scam now, and it's funny that you and the other pseudo-skeptical wackos haven't learned about it.

Funny that you weren't at all skeptical of Randi

>>2314924
Yeah, 'cuz Randi is the ultimate judge of reality for everyone in the world...

>>2314939
>Yeah there are several people who did their 'magic tricks' (things you're too dumb to grasp) under the controlled conditions without a problem. They got no money. People everywhere are reporting the whole scam now, and it's funny that you and the other pseudo-skeptical wackos haven't learned about it.
[citation needed]

>>2314939
[citation needed]
>>2314940
Demonstrating any supernatural thing to anyone credible would be enough to send ripples through the scientific community. That's exactly open minded enough.

>>2314954
So who cares what the scientific community thinks?

>>2314961
Everyone who wants things that work.

See, science is really useful because it's a really good indicator of how the world works. Scientists do a bunch of tests and shit that show that they can make TVs, and BAM! They can make TVs! You can show someone a TV and say shit, science just figured out how the world works.

Over history you'll find that the thousands+ of inventions by science outweigh the number of inventions by non scientific methods, which is certainly evidence that the scientific method of theory evaluation translates into real world understanding.

>>2314961
>Hey look at this guy with cool psychic powers! What does everyone think of this awesome stuff...oh wait...DONT ANSWER THAT! I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK! HAHAHAHA! Nobody cares what you think! Why do you think anyone cares what you think!?

derp

>>2314954
>>2314949
Wow

>>2314961
That's not the scientific community

>>2314971
That's not how people decide what works for them in their actual lives.
>>2314979
Indeed.

>MFW the fire starts from the inside of the newspaper bundle

>>2314982
So how do people decide the world works in their actual lives? Anyone who says anything that sounds like cool shit should be believed until they are proven wrong?

>>2314975
You seem to be running out of trollish things to say, and are instead settling for mock astonishment. Is that about right?

>>2314990
wow

>>2314982
Bullshit.

You get a terrible abdominal pain. Do you go see this guy, or a doctor? You know, the sciencey one?

>Early 1980's
>Poor town in China
>Miniature high voltage electo-shoc devices

I think it's more believable that the guy is a wizard.

>>2315040
They have cell phones over there, you know. The type of device we're talking about is neither sophisticated nor expensive.

>>2315040
The type of device we're talking about is neither sophisticated nor expensive, and Java isn't exactly the Land of the Lost, Untouched by Modern Civilization.

>>2315040
>First clip has people riding motorcyles
>Imply they don't have access to simple electronics
lol

>>2315040

They claim he was in Java, Indonesia and not China. Chinatown refers to the local community, not the country.

We have no reason to believe any of the backstory, nor that the skeptics were genuine rather than just actors from the same crew.

Anecdotes are worse than useless to science. They are worthless as evidence and at the same time may be misleading.

>>2315064
How could he control it? The video shows multiple touching with both his hands freely visible... and then a sharp energy comes out of nowhere. It doesn't seem plausible he hid a trigger in his sandals either.

>>2317240
>and then a sharp energy comes out of nowhere

We saw actors recoiling, not energy coming out of nowhere.

Also you bumped a thread that's been dead for 15 hours.

>>2317240
It's been discussed ITT. It is NOT a hard parlor trick to pull off. You can palm a match, soak the paper in linseed oil beforehand and then when it's dry it's not hard to ignite spontaneously, you can sneak a heat source (similar to a match) into the paper bundle as you're forming it, etc.

Which is more likely? That he knows a basic magic trick and is a con man who doesn't like being taped (he doesn't like it), or that he circumvents all known laws of physics and physiology? Very convenient that he refuses tests or invesigation.

>>2317294
>Also you bumped a thread that's been dead for 15 hours.
Also this.

I've taken the opportunity to rip on you mainly because of this.

i really couldnt care who thought this is possible, or whether or not aliens exist, but the shit some of you come up with to try to explain away something that contradicts your worldview is nothing short of remarkable

palm a match and douse with gas and.. fuck you, you dumb fuckin dumb fucker

i personally have some of these powers, and some shit i wont even get into on /sci/ and i was skeptical even while it was happening, but you guys would blow up the universe to make humans special

you dont save electricity by reading in the dark

>>2317340
>implying supernatural powers are more plausible than a palmed match

>>2317340
>i personally have some of these powers
[citation needed]
Were we in the position to do so, I would give you $1000 for passing a controlled test. Such a find would be that valuable to me.

I don't want to be a dumbass skeptical, so i looked closely, and the problem I found is, if he is emanating body heat, the upper part of the paper should burn first, but the fire starts from the inside part of the botton
captcha: finish hipsters

>>2317418
But it's chi - chi is magic.

joda: proud i am, litte jedi

having watched the whole video I can safely say most of what he does are simple parlour tricks. the dancing chi-knives is a common one using balancing and blowing on the table. he really ups the game with the shocks that he delivers. I honestly don't know how he does that but from his body movements it suggests some sort of piezoelectric effect. the wadded up newspaper that had earlier suggested might be linseed oil actually looks like he might be using the shocks and the help of an assistant that you can see moving out of frame at one point.
it beats me, but I can tell you he looks like every other psychic surgeon. and they always get shown as fraud under stricter inspection. i don't know why anyone would think this guy wouldn't. but I guess I don't have faith like some people.

About the vid: TL;DW.
>>Man ignites paper using natural energy emitted from his hand
There are chemical compounds pretty safe to coat your hand with that attack cellulose to the point they make it burn.

About meditation, it's a mental technique, just this. Great to relax, great against pain, but 90% people talk about it is plain bullshit.