/sci/ - Science & Math

By "character and spirit" do you mean believing things without evidence? That sounds like a euphemism to me.

If you actually mean character and spirit, I'm not sure why you think people here don't have them.

>>2240199

I mean daring question things and predicting where evidence will occur one day. I mean not looking at science as your mommy but as a tool.

>>2240203
Oh. Well I do maths, not science, but I'm always working on new research and making conjectures.

>>2240203
>I mean daring question things and predicting where evidence will occur one day.

Aliens, quantum computing, spirits, technological singularity, Jesus, gravitational singularity, ghosts, and math are not hard science.

Try >>>/x/.

>>2240203
>>Implying spirit and character cures disease and unlocks the secrets of the universe

>>2240215
Hey! The name of the board is "Science & Math"! This is our home too.

>>2240216

>Implying it doesn't.

As I said, you'll never get it.

My advice? Stop drinking tap water. Too much fluoride for you.

>>2240222
Ah, I was right!
"Spirit and character" really is code for believing things without evidence.

>>2240226

Sure sweetie.

>>2240228
Yeah I'm gonna have to ask you for your evidence that the flouride levels in tap water cause psychological effects then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy

>>2240222
flouride idiot.
>>2240215
lolmath

inb4 math is just abstract thought

inb4 herp derp fluoride destroys dmt in da brayn so u carnt think d00ds

>>2240236
>inb4 math is just abstract thought

I don't get it. Is that supposed to be an insult?

>>2240226
yes u were
>>2240237
wtf is this dmt craze everyones on? amirite?

>>2240240
just preempting that comment
because math has real applications,
so i consider it "hard science"
i'm pretty sure that person was joking tho... =/

Spirit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit#Metaphorical_usage
#5
Hmm, this has something to do with one of my favorite molecules.

Character
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character#Mathematics.2C_science_and_technology
># Character (biology), the abstraction of an observable physical or biochemical trait of an organism

># Character (mathematics), a type of function used in algebra

>Character (income tax), a type of income for tax purposes in the USA

This seems to have something to do with either math, traits or taxes.

>Implying rationality without character and spirit is worth half a fuck

>Implying rationality without taxes/traits/functions and alcohol is worth half a fuck
Fixed.

>>2240246
I'm a mathematician and I'd never consider maths to be a science. It's deductive rather than inductive. It has more in common with philosophy than with physics.

>>2240248
Your post:
>HURR I TROL JOO

>>2240251
Maths -> Physics -> Chemistry -> Biology -> Psychology -> Sociology

>>2240256
No serious trollin, just havin' a go at you but if you're mad.....
I can maybe understand a little but to be honest your op is total shit.

>>2240259
No, I think that's wrong. Maths isn't even in that chain.

Maths and philosophy are tools that are used IN the sciences, but they themselves are nothing at all like sciences.

Also, it isn't necessary that physics be grounded on maths. That just happens to be the most successful model currently.

>>2240266
Physics is applied maths so on and so forth.

>>2240259
wat
>>2240251
interesting. imo ur a troll cuz u love philosophy.
disclosure: im in the philosophy is bullshit camp
ps. how are you a mathematician by doing and liking math? no creds no shirt no dice

>>2240266
>Also, it isn't necessary that physics be grounded on maths. That just happens to be the most successful model currently.

>>2240268
>Physics is applied maths

No, I don't think so.

Physics is about making theories that predict reality. They might be mathematical theories, or they might be descriptive theories.

And maths is applied in like fifty billion subjects other than physics.

>>2240272

>>2240271
It's true! It seems strange to imagine in the modern era of physics, I know.

But a simple description of what sorts of objects exist and what properties they have is a physical theory. It's not going to be able to make exact predictions, but it's falsifiable. In fact some people think that the ToE is going to have to be nonmathematical.

>>2240278
>ToE is going to have to be nonmathematical

LMAO

>>2240272
In general terms physics is applied maths. Obviously all parts of physics are not applications of one direct mathematical equivalent. But Physics is to maths as chemistry is to physics, biology is to chemistry and psychology is to biology.

>>2240278
>ToE nonmathematical

WTF? GTFO!

>>2240278
This is ridiculous.
If a ToE is reached, which imo the way we're going it won't be for a long time, math will be used.
Mathematics is the most beautiful and versatile tool humanity has ever created.

>>2240282

But again, I have to point out that maths is totally different from the sciences. In maths, you examine the logical consequences of formal systems. In science, you attempt to create theories that predict reality.

>>2240272

almost everything is based in mathematical models, so when you do physics you do math

>>2240282
>In general terms physics is applied maths

There is such a thing as applied math. You can get a degree in applied math through most math departments. It is not the same thing as a degree in physics though.

You seem to be very very young and you think in very very simple terms. You 12? 15?

>>2240279
>>2240285
>>2240286

Try to remember, an awful lot of "obvious" things in physics have turned out to be false. I'm not hating on maths - I'm a mathematician!

But there really are other ways of describing physical theories. If you know the difference between classical and Austrian economics, you'll get what I mean.

>>2240290
Did you just learn how to use a computer?
Really, how fucking old are you?

almost everything is based in mathematical models, so when you work as a cashier you do math

>>2240303

Why does it matter how old I am, cant you take another way to claim your points that is not attacking the poster?

This is /sci/ we are talking about experimental sciences and math and those obviously have strong mathematical fundaments

>>2240319
You seriously need a course in philosophy of science and/or philosophy of mathematics.

But I guess you'll have to wait until you're old enough to go to university.

>>2240293
>other ways of describing physical theories
>physical theories
>physical
>PHYSICAL

WTF? Nonmathematical, nonscientific ways of decribing physical reality? I don't think you understand what science and/or math actually means. You may want to consult a dictonary.

Unless you improved the scientific method, or have some better approach with as much power, you should just GTFO!

Saged and reported. You must be a troll. No one can be as stupid as you appear.

>>2240319
This is a fallacy, the person you're arguing with is using an "ad hominem" attack.
Likely this argument appeared to be going nowhere, but they could not accept that their opinion was just an opinion, much like a religious person.
You would do best to point out this fallacy and continue on your merry way, realizing that you are the truly rational person for having opinions that are not concrete.

>>2240292
Yes concepts in physics can be described in a qualitative or descriptive sense without the use of maths.

However to obtain quantitative data mathematical formula are applied to real or imagined situations.

Therefore. Physics is applied maths

>>2240319
I only metion age, becuase it is pretty obvious you are very young, with no understanding of higher learning at all.

You are correct, physics draws alot on mathematics. But it is still not considered applied mathematics. Go to your local university, and ask them if physics is applied math. THEY WILL FUCKING LAUGH AT YOUR FACE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_mathematics

Applied mathematics concerns itself with the application of math in general. It is not restrcited to physics, chemistry, biology, etc. If you get a degree in applied math in not the same as physics.

>>2240348
Yes concepts in economics can be described in a qualitative or descriptive sense without the use of maths.

However to obtain quantitative data mathematical formula are applied to real or imagined situations.

Therefore. Economics is applied maths

>>2240330
Sorry dude, I hate to say it but I think you're just being fooled by what you're used to. I'm not an idiot, I have a Ph.D. in maths and I study philosophy of science as a hobby.

Physics and maths have been allies for so long that it's hard to mentally separate them. But they have entirely different goals, and in fact it's very surprising that they gel so well. (There's a good book about this called The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics.)

A ToE would reduce to the mathematical physics we know as an approximation, of course. But does the ToE have to be mathematical? There's no reason to say yes. If you want to know what a nonmathematical theory of physics might look like, you should look it up, there are a lot of attempts being done as we speak.

>>2240348
Yes concepts in social science can be described in a qualitative or descriptive sense without the use of maths.

However to obtain quantitative data mathematical formula are applied to real or imagined situations.

Therefore. Social science is applied maths

>>2240357
yes

>>2240348
Yes concepts in resturant managment can be described in a qualitative or descriptive sense without the use of maths.

However to obtain quantitative data mathematical formula are applied to real or imagined situations.

Therefore. Resturant managment is applied maths

>>2240377
Your straw man arguments are getting pretty tiresome and betray your lack of debating skill...

>>2240362
Wow, you really are saying that there is a better system then the scientific method. WTF?

Well, so far none exist, This is FUCKING FACT.
The scientific method is standard, and has a better record then any other sort of study of the physical universe (by far). It has remained far unsurpasses in its predictive power.

However, if every a new system arises, that can rival science, I will be open to it.

>>2240348
Yes concepts in psychology can be described in a qualitative or descriptive sense without the use of maths.

However to obtain quantitative data mathematical formula are applied to real or imagined situations.

Therefore. psychology is applied maths

>>2240388
>Doesn't understand what a strawman argument is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

>Confuses the concept of "application of math", with the term "applied math"

>Refuses to read evidence that proves him wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_mathematics

>Probably a 12? 13? Religiousfag?

>>2240388
>straw man arguments
there's that word again...i'm not sure you know what that means
dictionary?

>>2240409
applied mathematics/application of mathematics dont be starting shit about semantics

>>2240423
I know it may be hard for a underage kid like you to understand, but they really are two seperate things.

Just about everything you can do involves the application of mathematics. However, that does not mean you have studied the field known as "applied mathematics". Nor does it mean that you will be considered a "applied mathematican".

Anyone can apply the scientifc method, but that doesn't mean they are considered "scientists".
Anyone can cook food, but that doens't mean they are considered a "chef".
Anyone can draw a picture, but that doens't mean they are considered an "artist".

saging, cause you a reallly fucking stupid little kid, or a troll, thinking its cool to act like a really fucking stupid little kid?

>>2240451
Seeing as how I'm on about 8 hrs sleep over the last 3 days I'm surprised my post have been legible. This however excuse your obviously intentional misinterpretation of my statements and over simplifications. But seriously, I implore you to take that attitude to actual scientific discourses and see how far it gets you.

>>2240393
>I tell him that science doesn't need maths
>he thinks I said that science doesn't need science

>mathematics without character and spirit is worth half a fuck

Oh Grigory Perelman.
You'll never get it.

pic related

Have you ever and always followed the scientific method to the tee? The "method" you're referring to is really more a set of guidelines than any actual system. It works no better than asking a friend for advice. Then that friend asks you a bunch of questions about your situation ,and in answering these questions you figure out what you should do yourself, and thank the friend anyway.

...If that makes any sense.

>>2241057

Russian math genius ignores $1 million Millennium Prize.

Perelman presented proofs on the conjecture in 2002 and 2003. Several high-profile teams of mathematicians have since verified the correctness of his proof.

According to Carlson, the money will be sent to a charity foundation if Perelman does not claim it within one year.

In 2006, Perelman refused to attend a congress in Madrid where he was to receive a Fields Medal, often called the Nobel Prize of mathematics.

Perelman, who lives in a small apartment in St. Petersburg with his elderly mother, is unemployed and neighbors say he lives in poverty. He has rejected job offers at several top U.S. universities.
http://en.rian.ru/strange/20100608/159350481.html

I`ve read about it in new sceintist this guy is helarious.
Turns out he didn`t wanted the nobelprize because, according to him, his prove didn`t fallow the sceintific method exactly as these "guidelines" say.

>>2241106

He didn't want to take credit because he feels like Richard Hamilton deserves it for coming up with Ricci flow, which Perelman used for his proof.

Also, he is crazy.

>>2241106

he has enough money to last him his whole life he said. He has worked at universities.

he didn't accept those prizes because there was a lot of backstabbing and idea stealing going on, so he didnt wanna be a part of that

>>2241106
A teacher of mine went to a conference the guy was at. Said he had fingernails almost a inch long... it might of been a joke. Maybe.