/sci/ - Science & Math

go away kid

>>look at gif
Like all truther videos it edits out the first several seconds of the WTC7 collapse. This example also zooms out the WTC7 until its acceleration matches the smaller building next to it.

>>engineer fags can back me up on this
No. You're a fucking retard.

>>Conspiracy fags are ridiculed in our society
Not enough.

>>2172916

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972ETepp4GI&feature=related

Sir, are you kindly informing me that this gif is not accurate in depicting the 8-9 second collapse of the WTC7 building?

>implying that a fire can bring down an over-engineered building in 8-9 secs in near perfect unilateral into its own blueprint.

Get a brain.

>implying that fire can turn well-engineered steel and concrete into pulverized jello

You will fail as an engineer.

>>2172937
WTC 7 had gas canisters used for heating, which blew up as a result of fires from burning junk and debris falling on WTC 7.

>>2172958

I've heard of this theory. Fucking moron, if you believe it, because you have to consider all of the factors.

>Implying that disel fuel tanks and diesel pipelines were arranged around the building in such a way as to perfectly hit all of the thousands of stell columns in such a way as to cause a unilateral collapse.

Please. The theory is just a theory and has not been proven at all. There exists charity organizations calling for an investigation as to the cause of the collapse of WTC7. Popular mechanics keeps coming up with bullshit illogical claims for the buildings fail, hence this dumb ass disel bull shit.

It's a demolition, diesel and fire and debris, don't case a unilateral collapse as well as a very well engineered steel and concrete building to loose its structure and pulverize to jello. "Come on man, just get it"

>>2172872
>>2172937


When a tree is cut down, it falls over sideways.
A tree 'blown down by the wind' also falls sideways
Therefore trees apparently blown down by the wind are actually being cut down by people!

follow through with a big conspiracy from the government blocking roads and cutting power by cutting down trees everywhere.

>>2172872
>Since we all know that 9/11 was an inside job
Do we? I don't think we do. Even if we did, you're still using an argument from popularity.

>engineer fags can back me up on this
Argument from authority. And besides that, peer-reviewed scientific papers have supported the contrary to your claims. So the very experts you are citing to back you up actually disagree with you.

>How do I know that my hard drive hasn't been hacked into a checked periodically.

Even barring the typo this is a hilarious statement

>I'm a saint
Oh are you?

>Conspiracy fags are ridiculed in our society by being labeled tin hat enthusiasts

That's because conspiracy theorists connect dots that don't exist, their arguments hinge on logical fallacies (like the ones I have pointed out in your post), and their ideas are just generally laughable.
Lizard people? 2012? Come on people.

>>2172976
Lol'd at the picture and the content of your post. You're a gentleman.

>>2172978

Hahahahahha, nice logical fallacies yourself. Smoke Screen(dwelling on things that aren't important like my saintliness), ad hominem(attacking me), straw man(lizard people), and redicule.

Bravo good sir, Bravo.

OP is stupid because he doesn't think a little debris, questionable diesel fuel, and fire from office supplies, can't bring down and pulverize a super well constructed building perfectly and unilaterally into its own blu-print.

Tinhat faggot

>>2172972
Hey, theories can't be proven, they can be more credible than others, though.
The diesel tank theory is far more credible than the controlled demolition one. There is actual evidence of the tanks, and not bombs planted inside.
The building was heavily damaged by the fallen debris, by the way. It's base was literally blown off.

>>2173009

well for the conspiracy theorist "no evidence" means "more evidence the evil guv'mint is behind it all"

No engineer will ever back you up. You suck. What is your gif supposed to prove - that gravity always points the same way? Fuck off.

>>2173009

You just don't get it? Even if the base was "blown" clear off, it wouldn't have mattered, the building would not have pulverized if that were the case!

The building lost its shape. Steel and concrete buildings don't dissolve or break apart like that due to isolate pockets of fires. Seriously, they don't. Simple as that.

Buildings don't fall like the WTC7 from fire.

Fire was the official cause of the collapse according to government reports. So there.


But it isn't correct.

I can't debate this any further than this point I suppose. But the original point of this thread, was to suppose that 9/11 was inside job, then how safe are we really from our governments?

>>2172992
Sorry, we're not having a formal debate and this is 4chan so I did throw my own little opinion in there.
I'll say it again; you're all fucking loonies with paranoid delusions and delusions of grandeur who think they know something that everyone else doesn't.
And it makes you feel special.

That's just my opinion. Now you want to hear what I'd say in a formal debate?
Your theories have no proof, no evidence, no support. How are you making these ridiculous claims?
What are you basing these conclusions on?
To say that the government is willing to attack itself on its own soil just to spur a war for the purpose of conquest of oil in a country across the sea.. That's an extraordinary claim. Do you have extraordinary evidence?
The answer is no.

>>2173051

>suppose that 9/11 was inside job, then how safe are we really from our governments?

I think you should check your rectum for a tracking probe

>>2173051
>But the original point of this thread, was to suppose that 9/11 was inside job, then how safe are we really from our governments?

That's a huge fucking assumption, one which has no grounds whatsoever. Your whole "theory" rides on argument from ignorance. "We don't know what caused WT7 to fall for certain, THEREFORE GOVERNMENT DID IT AND THEY WANT TO KILL US ALL". Pure hilarity.

And the question is a bit stupid, don't you think?
"If the government is willing to attack its own people, GEE DO YOU THINK WE'RE SAFE?"
Well no fucking shit if that were true we wouldn't be safe. Are you next going to open a topic saying, "Well what if the earth was covered with 20 feet of water, WOULD SOME PEOPLE DROWN?"

Man you conspiracy theorists are dumb fucks.
And I contest the fact that you opened this thread for such a question. What you really wanted to do was troll around and debate WTC7.

if a government can pull off such a ridiculous stunt as these 911-truthers make us think, they could also not give a fuck about what the plebs think and invade afghanistan anyways

>>2173051
>The building lost its shape. Steel and concrete buildings don't dissolve or break apart like that due to isolate pockets of fires. Seriously, they don't. Simple as that. Buildings don't fall like the WTC7 from fire. Fire was the official cause of the collapse according to government reports. So there.

You don't know what you're talking about. There have been detailed analyses of the building 7 collapse. The chief cause was the structural damage done to the south face from falling debris; the secondary cause was the structural damage to the SW corner from the same. Time and the spreading fires did the rest until the structure failed. There is NOTHING mysterious. Talking about an "official version" is a conspiracyfag canard. The 9/11 commission didn't look into building 7 specifically. Subsequent to the 9/11 commission, NIST, and two independent engineering firms looked into the mechanism of collapse, and the reports are available on the internet for anyone who doesn't want to be ignorant. You, however, for whatever personal reasons you have, obviously want to be ignorant.

>But the original point of this thread, was to suppose that 9/11 was inside job, then how safe are we really from our governments?
That's like saying, "given that my brain is made of swiss cheese, how can I keep it from spoiling?" If your premise is retarded, no one is going to get past that.

>>2173051
While knowing that 9/11 wasn't an inside job, I think state terrorism is good if the state is achieving greater good with it.

Also, when a building falls, it usually turns into junk.

WTC 7 fell from gas tank explosions, structure weakening by fallen debris and fires.

>>2172872
> stuff looks the same so they OBVS share a common cause DERP
> derp derp

1. Mossad learns about fundamentalist terrorist strike in U.S. ground, informs CIA
2. CIA learns about it from Mossad
3. CIA informs president
4. U.S. needs to boost their weapon industry when no obvious threats around
5. U.S. goverment wants an excuse to violate citizens' privacy and personal freedoms in order to increase power
6. Israel needs moar outrage against Islam for its external policies' agenda
7. Do nothing
????????
profit (guns, oil, jewgolds, infrastucture in Iraq, opium in Afghanistan etc) and power (Patriot's act, invasive policies)

It was not an inside job. It was just fundamentalist stupidity that proved too convinient for the elites.

>>2173115
>>2173096
Melting Point of typical structural steel: ~1510ºC (2750ºF)
Max temp of fired inside all three towers: ~825ºC (1517ºF)
Number of steel-framed skyscrapers to have collapsed due to fires in modern history: 3

Clearly, diesel fuel could have undone the structure of a barely damaged building, culminating with the relatively cool fires, in isolated areas, causing a full collapse.

Very logically sound reasoning.

>If corporations and governments can destroy someone’s access to the modern economy as they have Wikileaks, without even pretending due process of the law (Paypal, VISA, Mastercard, Amazon, etc… were not ordered by any court to cut Wikileaks) then we simply do not live in a free society of law, let alone a society of justice.

>>2174694
>Ironically the Wikileaks files reveal that the British fixed their inquiry into the war, and that the US pressured the Spanish government to stop a war crimes court case against ex-members of the Bush administration. Assange and Wikileaks are subject to extreme judicial and extrajudicial sanctions, but people who engaged in aggressive war based on lies, tortured people and are responsible for deaths well into the six figures, walk free.

>>2174698
>It has proved that the West is run by authoritarian thugs with completely twisted priorities. Kill hundreds of thousands of people and engage in aggressive war? No big deal. Cause the greatest economic collapse of the post-war period sending millions into poverty? We couldn’t possibly prosecute the people who did that, but we will give them trillions! Reveal our petty secrets and lies, and that we know the war in Afghanistan is lost, have known for years and continue to kill both Afghanis and our own soldiers pointlessly? We WILL destroy you, no matter what we have to do.

>>2174619

1) The typical melting point for structural steel is closer to 1370 ºC, 1510 ºC is closer to the melting point for pure Iron (1538 °C). The average estimated temperature that would have been experienced by structural supports would have been closer to 700 °C. Please don't pull numbers out of your ass, or off of un-cited conspiracy websites.

2) Your implication that steel is completely unaffected by temperatures below melting point and that once it hits that temperature it instantly fails is laughable. While the temperatures within the towers wouldn't have been enough to melt supports, the temperatures were more than adequate to weaken the supports. The weakened supports could no longer hold the weight of the above floors and buckled.

>>2174704
>>2174698
>>2174694
IOW, OP, you can't trust the govt, you won't be enjoying your liberties which are even now severely reduced.

>>2174718
Weakened supports != total structural collapse

>tl;dr, will we be still enjoying our liberties in the near future?

No.

I'm expecting the wikileaks thing to be used in support of COICA or something similar under the usual rhetoric of 'protecting ourselves from terrorists'.

while you guys are arguing about buildings wars are being fought over oil pipes killing millions of people including our solders and when they do speak out they are thrown in jail

i honestly dont see why there aren't any riots in in front of the white house as we speak

..o wait thats right its because most of the american people like getting fucked in the ass

usa! usa! usa!

9/11 threads seem to contain two distinct styles of thinking. One group of people use evidence, logic, and reason to arrive at their conclusions. They accept reality as it is, not how they would like it to be. These people tend to be scientists, engineers, and mathematicians.

The other group comes to a conclusion first, and then interpret facts into something that meets their predefined conclusions. They try to make up their own version of reality. These people tend to be politicians, religious leaders, and conspiracy theorists.

>>2172872
> we all know that 9/11 was an inside job

Stopped reading.
SAGED AND REPORTED

>>2174619 Melting Point of typical structural steel: ~1510ºC (2750ºF)
Max temp of fired inside all three towers: ~825ºC (1517ºF)


Ha Ha Ha. Oh wow! He thinks metal behaves like ice: Perfectly rigid until hitting the melting point. Metals become progressively softer as temperature rises. Pic related. They don't need to come anywhere near melting point to fuck up, especially if under heavy loads.

>>2175536

The structure of the skyscraper is only able to support the stable weight of the floors above.

The steel supports that were damaged by the impact of the jet and further weakened by the intense heat eventually buckled under the weight of the floors above. One floor after another collapses under the force of the falling section of the building, adding more mass and more downward force and creating the 'pancaking' effect you see in the collapse.