/sci/ - Science & Math

and more;


To what extent do our fears innate? When we hatch goose-eggs in an incubator, and then above the baby birds passes a form, simulating a goose in flight; The birds stretch their necks and call out. But if we invert the shape of the silhouette, it becomes the shape of a falcon.
The response of the baby birds is immediate, they will crouch in fear, although they have never before seen a falcon. Without any instruction, an innate fear helps them to survive. But with humans, to what ancient danger may our innate fears correspond?

you know that just because you're dipped in acid like two-face's flowers doesn't mean everyone else is

ie, we actually have to read this shit.

Realistically, the two most likely answers are: A. Another universe, or B. Absolutely nothing.

String theory, mainstream physics, m theory, etc. They all come to one of those conclusions; either another universe, or nothing.

you can measure the velocity ping-pong ball, but you can't tell what colour the racket is.

ask the right questions to get the right answers

read hawkings new book
even it is a bit sensationalist, but it gives a pretty good explanation of why we have different paradigms and how modeling works.
i'll boil it down 4 u imagine a computer voice:
"wen u look at milk photons do nothing wen u shoot photons at photons the photons get affected by the photons so you have less conclusive data about photons... so if u could only study milk by shooting milk at it... i would say u cant know that much about milk at all. and dont cry over spilt milk"

goddamn my brain hurts

can someone fucking translate whatever the fuck op is saying to normal human english. ffs
op is a huge stoned faggot

>assumes nothing prior to big bang because no time.
no time =/= no existence

What is the nature of time? Does time have a nature outside of what we experience? Even if 'time' is running backwards because the universe is crunching (non sequitur), you and I would still experience the event as a continuous action in one direction of time
therefore: 'we' always go foreword within the abstract idea of time.

>If we live in a Universe with wound up dimensions, how do we distinguish between illusion and reality?
This depends on what you define to be illusion. Do you mean dream? well then flip a light switch to find out.
Do you mean a Matrix style illusion? There are philosophical arguments on both sides of this. Ultimately the answer is: good luck figuring that one out, bud. I suggest reading Hilary Putnam's Brain in a Vat.

>>what if one of the addition dimensions wasn't spatial, but temporal?
I pretty sure time, by definition, is temporal.

http://www.livescience.com/animals/080305-snakes-fear.html

maybe this can help you out op on your second part

>>2144077
the skeptical argument is BULLSHIT
it can be defeated with MOORES PROOF OF THE EXTERNAL WORLD
AKA HAVE U EVER RLY LOOKED @ YR HANDS
P1: this HERE is a hand (shake ur hand to show its what yr talking abt when u say HERE)
P2: there is a hand over HERE 2 (shake yr other hand 4 same reason)
P3: AT LEAST 2 THINGS EXIST IN THE EXTERNAL WORLD
C: THE EXTERNAL WORLD EXISTS

anyway, skepticism is so FUCKING WORTHLESS an UNHELPFUL as a philosophy. it hasnt gotten us telephones or electron theory or medicine. so it's better to be an E=K evidentialist or a hintikka-socratarian

Reality is a 2-way street, suck it up, OP.

String theory is not the ultimate theory. Put simply, M-theory> String theory.

Time is a largeish dimension in our universe... this is rather like evolution, a small universe would be swallowed up by a bigger universe.

OP introduced a tautology and made it SOUND like a question, but it's really not a question.

>>2144077

op here, i'm not talking about 'we' as a human being experiencing time going backwards, i'm talking about the objects around us going back in time. thats why I came up with the example of smoke coming out of a cigarette, if the universe is crunching would the smoke go back into the cigarette?

>>2144098

doesnt ops theory have only 1 universe? why would there be a second universe to swallow the first one? help me out here i'm not that good at all the science stuff

What happens when we fall in love? As a result of certain stimuly the brains release a powerfull discharge of endorphins. But why exactly that woman, or that man? Is there a release or odorless pheromones that corospond to a complimentary genetic signal? Or is it the physical features that we recognize; the mothers eyes, or a smell that stimulates a happy memory. Is love part of a 'plan'?
A vast war-plan between two modes of reproduction? Bacteria and viruses are asexual organisms, with each cell division (each multiplication) they mutate and perfect themselves much more quickly then we do. Against this we respond with the most fearsome weapon; sex. Two individuals, by mixing their genes, shuffle the cards and create an individual who can resist the viruses better, the more dissimilar he or she is.

>>2144098

He did imply many-worlds were evident by means of saying a universe rather than THE Universe. Only many-universes would take the model of there being a universe which is perfect, like the OP described.

>>2144177

aren't dimensions and universes two completely different things? like op said dimensions include hight, width depth time, and the universe is more or less another word for the galaxy and all the planets in it?

>>2144163

rofl is this op as well? what the fuck are you talking about love is just endorphins released by our brains and thats it you idiot. OP IS A FAGGOT

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-11/was-big-bang-preceded-another-universe-which-was-prece
ded-another-universe

>>2144211

you are the biggest idiot in this thread and i'm not even gonna dignify that with an answer. please gtfo /sci/ and get back to /b/

god created the universe in six days, its in the bible you idiot. fucking sci-fags

read george formans molecule theory thingy- ill post a link of it in 5 min lol

String theory can be formulated in terms of an action principle, either the Nambu-Goto action or the Polyakov action, which describes how strings move through space and time. In the absence of external interactions, string dynamics are governed by tension and kinetic energy, which combine to produce oscillations. The quantum mechanics of strings implies these oscillations take on discrete vibrational modes, the spectrum of the theory.

On distance scales larger than the string radius, each oscillation mode behaves as a different species of particle, with its mass, spin and charge determined by the string's dynamics. Splitting and recombination of strings correspond to particle emission and absorption, giving rise to the interactions between particles.

read it op, youll learn something

>>2144098
>>2144177

you best be trolling nigger
also bump, i wanna hear more like this

I think Albert said it best, "time is only an illusion created by the conversations of the state of energy." It's rate of conversion may not be constant; but we would not be able to preserve such discongruity. (gear in a clock do not move when the watch is not wound.) To describe time as a demention is only a useful in math as a variable.

To say there was nothing before the big bang, because time dose not exists is rather flawed. time is a side effect of energy conversion. If there was energy, without conversion, you would have no time, but there would be some thing is in existence.

As for personal choice, no choice is still making a choice. You've only chosen to ignore the world around you. Take Schrödinger's cat, if you do not open the box, sooner or later the cat will be dead any way. (old age, deceases, hunger, extra) As you get older the world will become smaller. Your body will break down. The need to survive will most likely consume most of your waking life. and eventually you will die.
In short do as much as you can, as long as you can. And don't squander a limited resource.

this thread is derailing like a motherfucker. also my brain hurts

isnt this philosophy, science is based on facts while philosphy is based on opinions and personal views and is completly worthless.

>>2144026
i dont think op was asking a question mate

>>2144331
>>2144331
>>2144331

before the big bang, there was nothing. simply because there is no time means theres nothing moving, everything is frozen until the big bang. there is something, sure, but for how long? theres no time to measure it so it might as well be exactly be created with the implosion of the big bang.

sci-fags get the fuck in here this is where you are good at we need more theories and opinions

what happend to evolution in your theory op? you didnt think of that at the moment now did ya?

surroundedbyidiots.jpg

Listen, it's all very simple - There's no beginning or end of time or the universe, it's the one thing that has always existed and will always exist.

>>2144018
>>2144018

what the fuck is that supposed to mean? the origin of our fears?

>>2144369

read it again, its not about fear in general, its about our first instincts. if you read ops example again youll probably get it

also, bump with info

>>2144369
I'm not sure...I think the acid really started taking effect on the OP by that point.
>>2144366
Do you have anything to back that statement up with?

>>2144366

yeah ive read that theory as well, forgot the name though. About humans always applying a beginning and an end to an object, because everything around us has a beginning and an end (trees, humans, pretty much everything you can think of).
So its only normal we also apply this rule to the universe; there has to be a beginning and an end, but in this case its not true

>>2144379

the baby-birds hide away automatically from threats like the eagles silhouette in ops example, without even knowing anything about the threat. So there has to be something that they were born with that told them to duck away. ops question is if humans have this as well, and where did it come from?

Another possibility is that we are "stuck" in a 3+1 dimensional (i.e. three spatial dimensions plus the time dimension) subspace of the full universe. If such sub-spacetimes are exceptional sets within a larger-dimensional one, there typically exist properly localized matter and Yang-Mills gauge fields.[19] These "exceptional sets" are ubiquitous in Calabi-Yau n-folds and may be described as subspaces without local deformations, akin to a crease in a sheet of paper or a crack in a crystal, the neighborhood of which is markedly different from the exceptional subspace itself. However, until the work of Randall and Sundrum,[20] it was not known that gravity too can be properly localized to a sub-spacetime; their proof that it can made such cosmological scenarios realistic. In addition, spacetime may well be stratified, containing strata of various dimensions so that we may be inhabiting a 3+1 dimensional stratum; such geometries occur naturally in Calabi-Yau compactifications. Such sub-spacetimes are supposed to be D-branes, hence such models are known as a brane-world theories.

In either case, gravity acting in the hidden dimensions affects other non-gravitational forces such as electromagnetism. In fact, Kaluza's early work demonstrated that general relativity in five dimensions actually predicts the existence of electromagnetism. However, because of the nature of Calabi-Yau manifolds, no new forces appear from the small dimensions, but their shape has a profound effect on how the forces between the strings appear in our four-dimensional universe. In principle, therefore, it is possible to deduce the nature of those extra dimensions by requiring consistency with the standard model, but this is not yet a practical possibility. It is also possible to extract information regarding the hidden dimensions by precision tests of gravity, but so far these have only put upper limitations on the size of such hidden dimensions.

>>2144431
>>2144431

NICE COPYPASTE FROM WIKIPEDIA YOU FUCKING FAGGOT GO FUCK YOURSELF WITH A CACTUS

>>2144440

i lol'd @ rage

>>2144431
... So in other words, it's NOT possible to extract information regarding the hidden dimensions if all you get is the limitations of their sizes which could be just about anything.

This theory might be possible, but HOLY SHIT is it a long shot.

bump

>>2144458

bingo and thats just the basics

>>2144458

well, that and their trying to judge by the gravity in a certain area to estimate how big that area is...right?

>>2144505
how the fuck are you supposed to measure to constantly increasing size of the universe/dimension? YOU CANT fucking inbred piece of shit. think about what your saying next time before spewing random shit into this thread.

I want more theories and less bullshit arguing.

>>2144548
Then go to /x/.

>>2144525

inb4 shitstorm

op give us moar theories to stop these assholes from derailing this thread again

bumpdidop

>>2144548
Also, you're free to walk in the middle of the street any time of the day. Hell, I'd even recommend it!

>>2144552

/x/ is pretty much the most worthless board on 4chan, its filled with emo faggots. how the hell am I suppose to discuss shit like this over there

>>2144583
Maybe so, but if theories is all you're looking for they've got plenty. We argue here because we actually care about their legitimacy.

>>2144548

then start by actually adding something to this thread you moron

Although string theory comes from physics, some say that string theory's current untestable status means that it should be classified as more of a mathematical framework for building models as opposed to a physical theory.[33] Some go further, and say that string theory as a theory of everything is a failure.[34][35] This led to a public debate in 2007,[36][37] with one journalist expressing this opinion:
"For more than a generation, physicists have been chasing a will-o’-the-wisp called string theory. The beginning of this chase marked the end of what had been three-quarters of a century of progress. Dozens of string-theory conferences have been held, hundreds of new Ph.D.s have been minted, and thousands of papers have been written. Yet, for all this activity, not a single new testable prediction has been made, not a single theoretical puzzle has been solved. In fact, there is no theory so far—just a set of hunches and calculations suggesting that a theory might exist. And, even if it does, this theory will come in such a bewildering number of versions that it will be of no practical use: a Theory of Nothing."
—Jim Holt[38]


qoute qoute ofcourse

>>2144595

why is this reporter waiting for something we can actually prove? we are talking about the universe and its dimensions here, i'm not expecting any type of proof from these scientist in the next 500 years because its (nearly) impossible. Lets see you come up with some relevant theories you dickwad journalist

>>2144595

i want to punch this guy in the face

>>2144595
What a fucking asshole. There's ignorant, and then there's "let me spread my ignorance to make everyone else ignorant"-ignorant

Mr. Nobody was a pretty good movie I have to agree OP.

But for the sake of the thread I'll post my personal opinion on the matter:

Regardless of how our "universe" works, everything ever is referred to as reality. Reality incorporates everything that exists everywhere and at every point in time, as well as anything additional that we might not have even comprehended - or that is impossible for us to comprehend.

We know we live in a space that is, to us, experienced in 3 dimensions. To us, time is not tangible, time is simply existence, and things are existING - that is, the idea of "pausing time" would be simply freezing everything in existence for as long as you "paused" time for - time still passed, everything just froze for a second. As a concept, our brain cannot fully grasp the idea of time, for we always imagine that if we were to view reality from outside of it, we would be able to watch it at the speed we pleased, but there would always be a point in time of which to look at and you would view all dimensions at that point in time - the idea of seeing all dimensions at all points in time is incomprehensible to us because well...it doesn't make any sense.

But: In my view of the world, our universe is an event. That is, from the moment our universe had the big bang until it will have the big crunch, all of that is some form of something at a higher level that happens not on a scale of time but is simply THERE. That is, if you were to look at that higher level, everything would be unchanging. At some "place" in that higher level, our universe - all points in time and all dimensions - would be there, and by looking at it it would be an unmoving, unchanging object. Simply there - you wouldn't see time passing, you would simply see everything.

iunno, it's hard for me to imagine time passing at the highest level of existence really.

>>2144634

if the human mind cant comprehend it doenst mean its not there or not possible. pretty much every theory posted in this thread is plausible in some ways, the only difference is that some of them are more likely to be true then the other theories.

ive seen this before op, just cant remember where...sauce?

captcha; agency snoutful

wait, what would the other six 'miniscule' dimensions be?
does somebody even have so much of a clue what else there is besides time, hight, widht, depht and so on? I think we pretty much covered anything? what is similar to the first 3 spatial dimentions? who even came up with the fact there were 9 dimensions to begin with T_T

>>2144663
Yeah, but that's a very big difference. In the "today you will browse 4chan for at least 30 minutes" range to the "today you're going to be hit by a car" range.

>>2144634

i like this. /thread?

Frank Macfarlane Burnet. Thats all i got to say

lants and animals evolve, eh? All right, how do they evolve?

By gradual but constant changes influenced by adaptive pressures in their environment that cause physical modifications to persist if they are advantageous.

Can you specify the kind of gradual change you’re referring to?

In any population of plants or animals, over time random genetic mutations will occur. Most will be detrimental, some will have a neutral effect, and some will confer a selective advantage, however small or seemingly inconsequential it might appear.

>>2144018

thats should pretty much cover it op

>>2144741

Really? But wouldn’t the overall population have a gene pool deep enough to absorb and dilute even a large change? Wouldn’t a small change rapidly disappear?

>>2144755
Well, yes, it probably would. But not in an isolated segment of the overall population. An isolated group would have a much shallower gene pool, so positive mutations would stand a much better chance of establishing a permanent place in it.

The fat lady is nowhere in sight, but that doesn’t mean she’s not suiting up.

>>2144770

rofl what the fuck

>>2144431

>implying that were stuck in the first place

well fuck this shit i'm going to bed

>>2144796

>implying that theories arent based on other people implying their own implied means to imply them onto someone else who implies that he needs to shut the fuck up

theres no possible way to know for sure, same way with the bible. THERE. IS. NO. END. TO. THIS. CRAP.

now everyone whip out your dick and start fapping to some planets

>>2144811
>>2144799
>>2144796
>>2144777

and the thread officially derailed in the last seven posts
>>2144770
>>2144814

>>2144814
If you wish to live in ignorance, why even visit /sci/? Even if this crap is endless, we are here to take it on!

how about you just shut the fuck up you stupid bitch ass piece of shit cunt licking chad jerking retarded inbred piece of mongoloid douchebag>>2144811

MR BONODY :D:DD I RECOGNIZE THIS CRAP

>>2144267

faggot never posted a link

>>2144595
>>2144595
>>2144595
>>2144595
>>2144595
>>2144595
>>2144595
>>2144595

NO.

>>2144842

FUCKYEAH MERICA READY FOR BATTLE

>>2144891
>>2144858
>>2144854
>>2144814
>>2144811
>>2144799
>>2144796
>>2144777
>>2144770

i think we are better off calling this thread /sci/'s little retard corner to let all the bitch-ass faggots fight in

wtf two hours and this thread is still here?

>>2144770

the beginning of a train wreck

>>2144911

nice 911 goodnight op

sure thing guys was good so long it lasted going to bed now