/sci/ - Science & Math

humans

Us.
Squid come in second.

dolphins gangrape and torture their females and generally other dolphins.

They are the second most awesome animal on this planet after cats and man.

>>2121461
you mean fourth after cats and man

>>2121455
eyelash mites are the smartest arthropod

>>2121466
oh right, I am unsure as to why I would make such an obvious error.

>>2121466
>>2121461
>second
>fourth

The fuck? That's fifth.

Mice

Big Foot
Killer Whales

1st: cats and man
3rd: eyelash mites (actually 2 species, but whtvr)
4th and 5th: squid
6th: dolphins, the oceans niggers

Non-negroid humans. Non-negroid because there is actually an Ape named Koko who scored higher than the average for some African countries.

>>2121459
Octopuses are much smarter than squid.

Chicken nuggets

>>2121492
i theyre so smart, how come theyre dead?

Bonobos can learn English through a pictoral keyboard. They're almost as smart as we are.

>>2121504
>they're smarter than we are

fix'd

Also, dolphins have a language, a culture, use tools and education. The only reason they don't have a great technology is beacuse they don't need to. They're already awesome and kick everyone's ass in the ocean. Hell, even sharks are afraid of them.

why do people think they're smarter than animals because they built civilisation?
civilisation is not smarter than non civilisation.
who is smarter? somebody who spends their life reading books or somebody who spends their life not reading books?
in the end everybody ends up in the same place, somebody who collects stamps isn't smarter than somebody who doesn't collect stamps.
everything humans do that animals don't is akin to stamp collecting, mere recreation to distract us from mortality, neither is superior to the other.

Wombats are the smartest specie in the world

>>2121556
forget civilisation and ask
did dolphins prove the modularity theorem?
no.
abstract reasoning. we beat those sorry nonfish's aquatic ass.

>>2122131
that

i assume OP is asking for Non-primate animal.

define smart too plx

>>2122131
I could agree.. the problem is that as long as we cannot communicate with animals we cannot be sure. If we were speaking dolphins we might be surprised, may be they can understand and prove modularity theorem, and may be they just dont care about it.

>>2122153
dolphin's are primates. they're kind of aquatic gibbon.

>>2122161
>don't care about high intelligence enough to evolve high intelligence, but are somehow highly intelligent

>>2122161
we cannot see inside moon. maybe moon made of bananas. if we could talk to the moon maybe moon would tell us bananas

>>2122171
>dolphins are primates
>mfw

dolphins are only mammals not primates ... idiot

>>2122161
It is my sincere believe that every form of intelligence smart enough will try to do something to increase their life's quality. Maybe there are some marine philosophers right there, but I am not sure why they did never think of something to escape drift nets.

Yes, a stupid argument, I am aware of that. But 'they simply don't want to' is not very scientific either. No offense, though.

>>2122197
>>2122203
you have a problem with being obviously trolled or something?

>>2122182
Yeah, that's what I mean, sort of.. but also, may be they are more intelligent because they are just living and don't care about stuff like math theorem (which is can be quite interesting I admit it, but what's the point hu?)

>>2122212

They do make tools. They tear off bits of sponge to protect their snouts while foraging, and males use sticks and seaweed for sexual displays.

They can't develop sharpened tools because they don't have any digits. Just their mouths. It's hard to do anything complex with flippers.

>>2122222
sound like abo lvl tech

Every animal is the smartest, not trollan

>>2122222
massive respect for your quints, but how come you know so much about attracting dolphins for sex play?

>>2122219
if you don't use it you lose it

we don't know exactly how intelligence works

maybe the have parts of the neurophysical capacity for human-like intelligence but my geuss is that they would need like some thousand years of sexual/artificial selection to reach us

right know they are like slacking dopehead hippies caring just for sex and giggles

>>2122259

>>right know they are like slacking dopehead hippies caring just for sex and giggles

Which is exactly what you'd do if your life consistent of mixed gender, nude swimming in warm tropical waters where your food is free, you don't need any housing and there are no serious dangers to your wellbeing

>>2122222
I did not question that they do that. I just said that I believe that every species intelligent enough will not stop in their advancement because they can.

I just find it strange to sincerely believe that dolphins are smarter than man. They may develop to be smarter than we are, yes, but now?

...can Dolphin imagine 3 dimensional objects? serious question

>>2122259
this is a myth

when judged in terms of human values dolphins are violent bullies and rapists. this guys post >>2121461 wasn't a troll

>>2122279

>>...can Dolphin imagine 3 dimensional objects? serious question

They communicate in three dimensional sonar imagery, so I'd say yes, they can imagine 3D objects.

>>2122271
put 32Mbps internets and pretty illustrated encyclopedia in it and I am willing to drop my IQ by 30 for that

you sure know how to sell, anon

>>2122305
in ways you can't imagine

practically everything is transparent for dolphin senses

>>2122305
>so id say yes

this whole thread belongs in /x/ or something

where is critical thinking?

>>2122312
>in ways you are speculating about hugely and stating as fact

>>2122271
>>2122310
May be I won't post anymore and try to transform into a dolphin now..

Although, check my octopus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygh1-ul6E94

>>2122299
they are very empathetic creatures

that's why the occationally enjoy a good torture

genuine psychopaths probably don't get so much pleasure from sadism, since they can't "taste" the subject's emotions...

just my geuss, though

>>2122313

....You don't know much about dolphin sonar, do you?

They are able to precisely image objects using sound. And they are able to reproduce those sound "images", to show them to other dolphins. It's not known whether this consitutes the whole of their "language" (how would a completely image based language work?) but it's a known capability. Dolphins can and do trade sonar images.

>>2122319
okey they can "see" through solid things

you can't, unless they are transparent to certain wavelengths of light

better now?

>>2122332
trade? hum like...
hey if you bring me food, I'll show you a nice gangrape?

>>2122331
we psychopaths are often sadistic. Our reasons aren't empathetic though. There's much stimulation to be had in torturing a helpless little thing.

>>2122339

No, like

Dolphin 1: "Hey I found food"
Dolphin 2: "Orly? Where?"
Dolphin 1: *Emits sonar picture of a familiar location*
Dolphin 2: "Oh shit I know where that is, let's go"

>>2122332
you mean that dolphin communication is like 4chan? (imageboard)

>>2122347
Not just that, but in 3D.

>>2122332
no they don't reproduce sonar images with their vocalisations. this is more BS you've read somewhere

>>2122344
nope troll

>>2122341
why?

btw if you are actually a psycho and not the usual edgy teen angry with his parents... what is the range of your emotions?

>>2122338
>>2122339
>>2122344
>>2122347
>>2122352

samefag

>>2122355
I am a bit sceptical, too, but you certainly sound mad for being wrong before.

>>2122331
So we are counting nonlogic acts of will like torture and rape as signs of intelligence

>>2122363
sorry but you're wrong, at least for this one
>>2122339

>>2122363
see
>>2122366
u so mad that everybody is samefag.

to make it easier for you:
>>2122366
>>2122361
>>2122347
>>2122341
>>2122331
>>2122312
>>2122338

>>2122355

>>no they don't reproduce sonar images with their vocalisations. this is more BS you've read somewhere

For fuck's sake. It's been central to dolphin experimentation for the past decade. We can receive their 'speech' and figure out what they're referring to, even.

http://www.dolphin-institute.org/resource_guide/animal_language.htm

"Skepticism" does not mean "reject any info I'm not already familiar with"

>>2122382
disregard the >>2122341

>>2122366
>before
>implies he can distinguish anons
>perhaps with sonar

>>2122387
The problem is the level of reproduction is the same as me describing St Peter's Square in Rome by waving my hands in the air.

Far from the reproducing sonar images claimed ITT.

>>2122403

>>The problem is the level of reproduction is the same as me describing St Peter's Square in Rome by waving my hands in the air.

What do you base this on?

>>2122361
Why? same reason we like fire I guess. We're highly masturbatory. thrill seekers if you prefer.

I'm not bragging, calling yourself a psycho doesn't get you far in life. Having the criminal and medical record to prove it is even less helpful.

If you don't believe me about the behaviors of antisocial personality disorders, feel free to google it. We are often sadists, pyromaniacs, have shallow affect, lack empathy, and wet our beds late in life.

the assertion that sadism must be a product of empathy would appear incorrect.

>>2122393
>implying he's not >>2122363 >>2122319 >>2122355

>>2122387
Then how come we don't know what they are remotely 'talking' of if we know they are talking by using err... 'coded' 3D images.

>>2122387
>http://www.dolphin-institute.org/resource_guide/animal_language.htm

um, that claims no such thing about communicating in pictures. a few clicks meaning left or right etc has been hypothesised.

maybe read the citations you offer first

"Louis Herman, Palmer Morrel-Samuels and Adam Pack tested whether the dolphin Akeakamai might respond appropriately to language instructions delivered by a trainer whose image was presented on a television screen. Akeakamai had never been exposed to television of any sort previously. Then, for the first time, the researchers simply placed a television monitor behind one of the underwater windows in the dolphin’s habitat and directed Akeakamai to swim down to the window. On arriving there she saw an image of the trainer on the screen. The trainer then proceeded to give Akeakamai instructions through the familiar gestural language. The dolphin watched and then turned and carried out the first instruction correctly and also responded correctly to 11 of 13 additional gestural instructions given her at that same testing session. In further tests, Akeakamai was able to respond accurately even to degraded images of the trainer, consisting, for example, of a pair of white hands moving about in black space. The overall results suggested that Akeakamai spontaneously processed the television displays as representations of the gestural language she had been exposed to live for many years previously."

That's better than most apes.

>>2122413
i'm those except the samefag guy. so where have i been wrong as claimed?

there's one cite in this thread that states something totally different to the main bullshit claim. coding images and reproducing them.

>>2122423

but akemiki was japanese, of course she was smart if you compare her to african apes. Of course the japanese are way smarter than the africans, that doesn't mean all dolphins are smarter than apes

>>2122423
maybe

but it's fuck all to do with reproducing and communicating sonar images

>>2122419

>>um, that claims no such thing about communicating in pictures. a few clicks meaning left or right etc has been hypothesised. maybe read the citations you offer first

My bad, I assumed it'd be in there.

http://www.suite101.com/content/echolocation-in-whales-and-dolphins-a139049

"Whales and dolphins communicate by using a method called echolocation. They emit clicks or chirps to help them locate food, to navigate underwater, and to communicate with each other. The echo bounces back off of an object and this tells the whale or dolphin things about the object such as size, distance away, and whether it is moving or not. Different whales use echolocation for different purposes.

Toothed whales (killer whales, bottle nosed dolphins) use echolocation to hunt and to navigate
Baleen whales (humpbacks, blue whales) use echolocation for communication"

>>2122429
>so where have i been wrong as claimed?
I am not the communication with 3D images, guy.

It's just doesn't need a leap of faith to realise that a mammal with an advanced brain probably can make images, in its mind, out of its primary sense.

>>2122448
>Toothed Whales
>bottle nosed dolphins
>dolphins
>whales

7/10 to the sonar guy

http://www.gma.org/marinemammals/current_research.html

"How do dolphins communicate?

Dolphins make a wide array of sounds, including clicks, moans, chirps,creaks, barks, squeaks, yaps, mews, and whistles. They are also excellent mimics and have been known to makes sounds resembling the engine of a motorboat, the laugh of their trainer, and the brrrr of a Bronx cheer!

Dolphins use clicking noises in echolocation, which bounce off objects underwater. This allows them to navigate, identify prey and friends, and avoid obstacles and predators. Dolphins use whistles to maintain contact within their pod or when meeting other pods of dolphins. Their whistles may signal danger, a call for help, or simply identification. Scientists think that each dolphin has its own signature whistle, sort of like our names. Whistles may also help dolphins hunt cooperatively and coordinate migratory movements."

>>2122458
of course. but so does say a rabbit. it has a visual cortex.

the big if is whether they have a complex symbolic way to understand, manipulate and communicate such images. the evidence seems to be they have a simplistic one. but so do honey bees.

Look, if a dolphin can send out ultrasound, and then interpret what returns as an image, it obviously stands to reason that they could emit ultrasound to each other, and interpret it as imagery.

Any reason this wouldn't work?

>>2122465
we all know that.

birds and bats do same

>>2122463
>implying cetaceans do NOT use echolocation
0/10

>>2122462
l2 taxonomy moran

>>2122478

There is nothing, biologically, that prevents them from doing that.

The question is, do they realize they can use echolocation that way? Are they smart enough to use it on each other?

Maybe that's the next stage in their development.

>>2122495

>Next stage in their development

that's not how evolution works you fucktard.

>>2122478
>any reason this shouldn't work

because a dolphin's sound production equipment is relatively simple and localised, but the 3D soundscape it hears and interprets is highly complex and multidirectional.

>>2122477
>the big if is whether they have a complex symbolic way to understand, manipulate and communicate such images.
that I don't know

but their brain is a bit more folded than human's brain and since they don't use it for intelligence as we define it, they probably have to use their brain huge brains for something similarly complicated, so imo sonarfag's claim are not that far'fetched especially taking in account that cetaceans generally have rather sophisticated social behaviour and navigating skills

>>2122504

>>that's not how evolution works you fucktard.

I'm not a fucktard. I understand full well how evolution works. Well enough to understand that something like the use of existing biological abilities in new capacities qualifies as epigenetic evolution.

>>2122487
think he meant reproducing the sonar "pictures"

>>2122495
see
>>2122508

>>2122508

>>because a dolphin's sound production equipment is relatively simple and localised, but the 3D soundscape it hears and interprets is highly complex and multidirectional.

The sound it actually generates images from is it's own 'voice', though. Returning as an echo. It's not generating imagery from ambient sound, but from sound it produced itself.

>>2122510
>probably
>so probably true

lrn2 scientific method

>>2122514
See:
>>2122520

>>2122521

>>lrn2 scientific method

This is the scientific method. Right now, we are hypothesizing.

>>2122520
yes, echoed off a thousand different things at different distances. that's how sonar works.

many many orders of magnitude more complicated than emitted sound.

in fact best way to do sonar is have an incredibly simple sound (the click) emmited. and amazing ears/aural processing. NOT amazing larynx and larynx control.

so, as far as anyone in the world knows, dolphins do not have the equipment or capability

>>2122525
No, we haven't the necessary skepticism except the poster who got mad.

>>2122533

>so, as far as anyone in the world knows, dolphins do not have the equipment or capability

Citation please. I can't find any statement to this effect on any page with info on dolphin capabilities. It seems like nobody's even thought to test for it.

>>2122523
see
>>2122533

>>2122542

Skepticism does not mean shutting down the process of assembling a hypothesis, or science wouldn't work.

>>2122546
See:
>>2122545

>>2122545
lol. i think it works the other way around.

without citation saying it exists we assume no such capability exists.

>>2122547
things are being claimed as "likely" in this thread, without a shred of evidence, just a hypothesis

>>2122520
>It's not generating imagery from ambient sound, but from sound it produced itself.
just a note:
echolocation is part of their hearing sense perceived from their ears, though there might be direct and seperated neurons in their lower jaw bone specifically for that, but I don't know, my assumption and also don't think that's what happens. All I know is the use their dentary bone (lower jaw) to track back the ultrasounds they emmit.

Did the trolls win yet?

>>2122555

I made those claims, and I now back down from them. I wish to restate them as a hypothesis.

This should calm your aspergers.

>>2122259

>maybe the have parts of the neurophysical capacity >for human-like intelligence but my geuss is that they >would need like some thousand years of >sexual/artificial selection to reach us

>right know they are like slacking dopehead hippies >caring just for sex and giggles

Thousands of years? Sounds like decades to me.

Hi guys. I'm a dolphinologist.

And I'm pretty sure dolphins don't have Dolby Surround 7.1

>>2122521
I did not say "habeeb it"! I just noted some traits of dolphins that might indicate that.

If you want I have an alternative hypothesis (geuss) why their brain is so big and yet they are retarded compared to us.

>>2122571
did you come down already?

>>2122574
Is there a delphinology subbranch of cetology?

I think there should be.

>>2122579

Do you believe I shouldn't? The spirit of science is remaining open to correction. Not digging in your heels to save face.

>>2122572
maybe

but you know how things are... it's more convenient to think that dolphins will be adorable sea clowns doing silly tricks for a long time from now instead of silent conpirators planning out our ultimate doom.

>>2122591
>The spirit of science is remaining open to correction. Not digging in your heels to save face.

Perhaps the most idealistic and simultaneously completely false statement I've ever read on /sci/.

beautiful!

>>2122575


probably similar reason to sperm whale having a brain 6 times the size of humans, or elephant 4 times as big

EQ =/= IQ

so much high school biology ITT.

>>2122591
digging in heels in face of blatant bullshit is an elite science skill.

>>2122131
>abstract reasoning. we beat those sorry nonfish's aquatic ass.
>abstract reasoning
>/sci/
I have seen calculators with greater capacity for abstract thinking than the aspies in this board.

you guys know that swimming with dolphins has cured chronic illness?

pic related

>>2122602
their brain weight/ body weight ratio is smaller than humans but their folded surface in proportionally similar to humans

HUMANS /thread

Fucking retards saying "oh dolphins are oh so clever"

They can't even fucking solve a simple homogenous differential equation or prove that a Taylor polynomial of order n as n approaches infinity is equal to the function being approximated!!!
/rant

>>2122629
dolphin can into origami

>>2122650
chill dude... maybe you should take a swim with dolphins... I heard it cures autism.

>>2122650

How would they demonstrate that to your satisfaction? How would you teach that to a dolphin? A human who has never learned to do such equations can't do them either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq7nHw1v6YY#t=0m15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9fFkMyDsfY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMCf7SNUb-Q

These are all behaviors dolphins have exhibited which suggest intelligence. None of them were trained to do those things. The ones that pose with the divers are actually wild.

>>2122654
no

dolphins hate the Japanese

>>2122662
autisms don't get mad like that

lrn2 detect 4chan types