/sci/ - Science & Math

Something like this, but much bigger, and deeper....

....Would prepare us to build a research outpost in Europa's ocean, like this.

Yea or nay?

I'm all for it. Space beyond earth orbit doesn't hold much for us in the near future, whereas the oceans, right here, right now, with new species discovered on every journey, and millions of square kilometers uncharted and unexplored.

>>2091807

It's largely the same technology, though. The life support systems used aboard the ISS today were pioneered as part of the Navy's SeaLab program in the 60s.

The most useful thing they could do with a sea base is make it modular, so astronauts could practice assembling a lunar or mars outpost.

ITT: Awesome sea base pictures.

>>2091813
>The most useful thing they could do with a sea base is make it modular, so astronauts could practice assembling a lunar or mars outpost.

What's out there in space that isn't down there in Oceans?

Fuck yeah. I don't want us screwing up when we get to Europa.

Got any idea how much it would cost?

>>2091821

We don't know yet. But living in the ocean is a lot like living on the surface of another planet. And if we're gonna have astronauts assemble a base from huge heavy modules it's probably a good idea to figure out the best way to do that here on Earth. In the ocean you get a hostile environment, reliance on life support, low gravity, and you're assembling something pretty similar to what a planetary base will look like. If there's a better place to test equipment and techniques I can't think of it.

Because we are too busy working out plans to colonize a giant red, uninhabitable desert in space

Moar liek International Derp Sea Station, amirite?

Sea Lab ftw.

I'd live there.

>>2091821

I see you read my threads. :3

Pic is Sealab, the deepest habitat in history. The project was cut short due to a mysterious death that is believed to be the result of sabotage.

It was stationed 600 feet deep. This was in the early sixties. With modern materials and technology it should be possible to build a constant 1.6atm facility at 3,000 feet or deeper. 3,000 feet is about where you'd have to start using sapphire for the windows instead of acrylic, and the air mixtures would become sufficiently exotic that you couldn't send crews down for longer than a week or two at a time.

I should specify exotic gas mixtures are only necessary if you're using internal air pressure close to the pressure of the water outside as a method of relieving stress on the hull.

With materials like carbon fiber and sapphire and titanium and whatnot you could build a lab that maintains a pressure only slightly greater than at the surface, but it would rely completely on the strength of the structure to resist implosion.

The main reason exotic gas mixtures are undesirable is that they can have psychotic side effects for some. And mixtures which rely on helium make you sound like Donald Duck.

For obvious reasons the future of undersea science outposts is constant 1.6atm. That means they'll need a docking ring, just like the space station, instead of the moon pool that our current undersea science outpost (pictured) uses.

Why doesn't the military have one as a submarine base?

>>2091807

>now realizes one meteor with a mile radius holds twenty trillion worth of minerals

>nothing worth it in space close earth orbit

>>2091878

>Psychotic side effects

>Undersea habitat.

>>2091859
>Sealab

Also, it blew up after Captain Murphy took control.

>>2091890

>>>now realizes one meteor with a mile radius holds twenty trillion worth of minerals

Rare earth minerals, you say? Such as the sort found in exposed seafloor nodules that we can get at much cheaper than the minerals in asteroids? :3c

The richest deposits are around undersea volcanos, so it certainly won't be safe. But the thing about mining the sea floor is that you don't have to fight Earth's gravity well to get there, only succumb to it.

have them figure out what the fuck the "bloop" was.

Hereby opening up this thread for the mass posting of deep sea horrors, as usual.

>>2091967
Agreed. At least on Earth, a semi-workable area can be simulated with various domes and water-tight machine housing. Space creates a shit load of problems regarding logistics. Power supplies for a start. Getting shit up and down, again, will cost a buttload. The seam for now, is much more realistic in terms of a source of resource collection, but space IS the final frontier, and we will have to go there some day...

Fuckin miracles

I don't even

Also, pics of the shit we need to go into the sea to harvest. Pic related, it's manganese, a mineral we use to make most lithium batteries. And it's a solid exposed deposit near a deep sea vent, just sitting there, waiting to be scraped off.

However the richest deposits in the world are in Papau New Guinea, almost exactly a mile underwater. That's well into the twilight/midnight depth region. It would mean working in pitch black, frigid waters populated mainly by shit like this.

/sci/: sea monsters

I'm keen. Who do we lobby?

Also, how are your projects going?

>>2092102

#1. You lobby for increased funding to NOAA and the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. They're the two biggest players in undersea science.

#2. Great, but stalled. Pic is where I am so far. The holes have been dremeled and the tubes fit perfectly. I now need money for a platform to mount them to before I glue the tubes in place and apply sealant.

>>2092120
Hmm. How much money do you need? I've just got a job, so I'll be able to start donating soon.

I'm in.

How about International Deep Space Station?

It'd be pretty boss-mode to have a vacation home under the ocean, it's even more discrete than a private island

I think you made a thread like this about a week ago, Mad. Good stuff. I enjoy the pictures...

I have to admit that even though I prefer the big Up-and-Out, these threads are a breath of fresh air from GLORIOUS MICROWAVE-PUSHED STARWISPS and GLORIOUS NANOTECH REVOLUTION.

>>2092139

Maybe $15 total for the wood panel and screws.

>>2092191

>>It'd be pretty boss-mode to have a vacation home under the ocean

Those exist. Pic related. Hope you have a few million lying around.

>>2092200

Hey, thanks. I'm all for the big up and out too, but historically progress has been swiftest during the colonization and exploitation of a new frontier. The influx of previously untapped riches makes enormous, ambitious endeavors possible.

We've harvested all of the resources that are easiest to get at already. It's why we're having to drill in increasingly deep water to get at oil, and why China, Japan, South Korea and the US are now working on deep sea mining programs, mostly robotic sadly although I expect each will have a modest manned outpost in the event that the robots fuck up.

The sea is rich. Incredibly rich, and we haven't begun to tap it because up until now the technology to do so while turning a reasonable profit didn't exist. But we're past that threshhold and a whole new world of natural wealth has opened up to us.

It's the conquest of this blue frontier and the exploitation of the wealth it contains that will send us to the stars.

>>2092202
i need one of those shaped like a pineapple so i can live out my spongebob squarepants dream fantasies

>>2092230

Just out of curiosity, does the ocean floor contain Platinium? As in, thousands upon thousands of tonnes? Because it's a Rare Earth with good malleability and a candidate for room-temperature superconductivity, I was thinking that if the floor doesn't have it then simultaneous strip-mining of the oceans and the asteroids has to be done. But I totally agree that it's going to be the ocean first, my most optimistic estimate for asteroid mining is a few robot drills to Kleopatra by 2050.

>>2092260

By 2050? Eugh...I doubt that to be honest. Maybe if it's privately done, by a corporation or something.

>>2092271

You mean it's too late or too early?

>>2092273
Too early in my eyes. I just don't see governments, on a global scale, getting their shit together.

>>2092260

>>Just out of curiosity, does the ocean floor contain Platinium? As in, thousands upon thousands of tonnes?

Yes, typically mixed with gold, and found either around deep sea volcanoes or in larger quantities in manganese crusts at depths of 800-2400 meters.

So we're talking depths from 2,624 feet up to 1.5 miles. That's pretty serious pressure. For reference, the minisubs used to film Aliens of the Deep (pic related) had a maximum depth of 3,000 feet. But then, they had all-acrylic cabins. We've built subs that can go much deeper, just not look as good doing it.

>>2092290

Pressure shouldn't be much of a problem with the nanotechnology I can see us developing in the next four or five decades.

Diamond submarines.

Mechanochemically synthesized diamond submarines.

But on the space note, I guess then we'll have to go up there for the power reasons (Not political, I mean the actual wattage reasons).

>>2092281

No, not governments.

>>2092295

>>Mechanochemically synthesized diamond submarines.

Reading that gave me a halfie.

>>2092301
Whom are you thinking of then?

(Sigh) I'd be nice to establish a corporation that could invest in long term yields. I'll get there eventually I suppose.

>>2092303

What I have in mind is basically a nanotech revolution which allows us to do pretty much everything, and while at first instructions for the nanofabricators would be made by corporations, eventually it would be the same as software: Open-source groups.

We're talking about thousands of people taking the blueprints of cars, rockets, aircraft, and submarines, and writing code to allow the nanofabs to make them of the strongest materials* the laws of physics allow.

Fullerene submarines the size of the Empire State, digging through the beds of bacteria near volcanic vents, while diamond towers propel themselves to the solar system.

Pic related.

>>2092309

Corporations who feel like taking over asteroids worth 20 to 30 trillion dollars, or the Open Space Movement after the nanotech revolution.

Pic related.

>>2092333

I, too, read Diamond Age. But we don't need nanotech to do that sort of thing. You should read this: http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

>>2092341

To be honest I haven't read The Diamond Age. Too bad the guy took the title, if it wasn't taken my WIP would be called The Diamond Age instead of For All Mankind.

And the post-singularity AI thing, well, I still have my doubts: They have been saying it's 15 years away for the past 60 years, and now they have stepped down from AI to scanning and emulating the conectome of insects, animals and humans, and they are too proud to admit they weren't smart enough to make Artificial Intelligence, so they say "nah j/k guys I troll, of course Whole Brain Emulation is Artificial Intelligence! It's not like we just plug in the machine without doing anything else!".

Bunch of crazy Singularitarians with too much pride...

>>2092364

Seriously, check out that link.

We have one and it's called Rapture.

>>2092393

Herp de derp. We do have one though. It's called Aquarius. It's studying reefs in Florida right now in just 60 feet of water. What we need is one ten times as big and a hundred times deeper. Pic related.

>>2091890
Someone been reading that aapg astrogeology comitee link I posted a while back? Fuck yeah space mineral exploration/exploitation. :D

>>2092405

Deep sea bases aren't all that great. The pressures harder to deal with, and you can't see anything out of the windows.

>>2092690

Sure, but you're not down there to take in the sights. You're down there to capture and study deep sea organisms. You'd only really need (sapphire) viewports overlooking the outside experiment "tray" and adjacent live specimen cages.

Shallow water habitats are valuable too, mainly for studying reefs and developing ways to reverse their current decline (as Aquarius is doing) and with advances in material tech I expect Aquarius' successor will be a lot roomier and more attractive, with plentiful acrylic windows/domes.

>>2091859
>start using sapphire for the windows instead of acrylic
nope, try again. Alvin's windows are acrylic and rated to 4500 meters.

>>2091967
>are around undersea volcanos
actually, those of us who actually study hydrothermal systems are getting our sites protected so no one fucks with them.

>>2092690
wanted to comment that in a lot of ways i agree with this. i mean, i love working in the deep sea and all (i work at ~2400-2700m below the surface) but you could not pay me enough to live down there. most of the deep seafloor is not very visually stimulating (to the average person) and is covered with hemipelagic mud. it's completely dark and would depressing super quick. no thank you.