/sci/ - Science & Math

do you get more christmases if you're polytheistic? cause that'll win me over

poly seems cooler
religious as in go to church yes

>>2056500
but do you believe in god?

Well if you're going to believe in 1 god, why not them all? Its just as crazy.

>>2056502
not really i think celtic neopaganism does but i'm a roman polytheist so...

>>2056504
i suppose, he doesnt talk to me or anything but oh well

bump

polytheism leads to awesome stories, greek mythology, norse mythology etc,

monotheism, ohhhh, ummmm yayyy, the bible, great story that one, people read it before they go to bed, helps them sleep

>hi /sci/, do you think polytheism is better than >monotheism?
>also are you religious?
>/sci/ are you religious?
>/sci/ religious
>/sci/
shifting into maximum trolling

>>2056574
not because you know theoretical physics means you don't believe in god correct me if i'm wrong but sir issac was religious right?

polytheism sounds like fun (hinduism/pagannism)
monotheism is boring(christianity/judaism/(budhism(?))everything else)
i'm Catholic....
its meh

If there was some supernatural force that created _Everything_ that is reality, it must have created concepts such as singularity and plurality.
If it created numbers, it is safe to say that it probably existed before, and thus without, numerical traits, yes?
Therefore, a creator god could not be singular or plural, and both monotheism and polytheism are retarded.

That being said, all religion is retarded for many more reasons than that. Also, get off of /sci/ unless you've got some science/math for us.

Theology at school was boring.

Mythology on the other hand (as sidenotes in history books) were FUCK YEAH!

>>2056596
you're catholic that means you're pagan you know this right...because the saints are demi-gods

>>2056612
The religions that you were reading about, when you read about mythology, had their own theologies that were just as boring.
When you take theology, you are just learning the implications of another mythology.

Doesn't really have anything to do with which religions you like or not.

>>2056620
...umm no...

paganism seems way more fun
In paganism you don't pray out of love, you pray to avoid the gods wrath

>>2056624
for all practical purposes... ummm... yes

>>2056641
no.
l2catholicism

>>2056607
but weren't the numbers an invention of the human being and wasn't singularity and plurality a by-product of the god given free will

>>2056623
>When you take theology, you are just learning the implications of another mythology.
It was not exactly theology. Moar like bible-studies and christian ethics. "Θρησκευτικα" is the original title of the lesson.

>>2056637
not exactly you pray to get favors from them

>>2056655
that's more of a neopaganism way...

>>2056644
I was not specifically reffering to catholics. Maybe that muslims' and jews' monotheism is way more pure on the "mono-whorship" aspect than christians (especially catholics and orthodox).

>>2056672
well, if you are gonna claim saint=demigods, you're gonna have to explain your reasoning

>>2056624
I'm not the one who told you Catholicism = paganism, but I have to agree, and it seems obvious to anyone who wasn't raised on "the bible tells us we're monotheists" bullshit.

Here's how your religion's pantheon breaks down.
You have three head gods, the Son, the Father, and the Holy Ghost.
You have other beings that have become divine, and are worshipable and capable of being prayed to: Mother Mary, saints, etc.
You have a fourth being (that in any non-Judeo/Christian religion would be called a god); the malevolent deity Satan.
You have legions of demi-god like supernatural beings, such as angels and demons.

All that is different between Catholicism and any other pagan religion is the semantics. You have a similar worship structure, you go perform your magical rituals, and then you call yourselves monotheists and pretend you're better than the rest. But it's a false title.

>>2056686
but we only pray to god.
we don't pray to mary
we ask for mary's intercession to god

i went to a catholic school (again meh...)
i know my shit.

>>2056664
In pre-classical context religion was some form of supernatural bribery. In Greek mythology cthonic gods were the ones you mainly had to bribe to avoid their wrath. Being granted favours was still the main purpose of that (even to the chthonic ones like some sort of black magic).

>>2056637
>>paganism seems way more fun
>>In paganism you don't pray out of love, you pray to avoid the gods wrath

Christian God: "I love you. Do what I say or you're damned to an eternity of torture and hellfire."

Do you think the majority of people who accept that statement as true end up praying out of love, or fear of a god's wrath?

>>2056702
as a church goer, people pray for god's love (i wouldn't consider myself very religious though)
sins can be absolved.
you have to be trying to go to hell to get there

>>2056697
>>but we only pray to god. we don't pray to mary. we ask for mary's intercession to god

Again, Catholicism twist the semantics to make themselves look unique.

You may personally pray only to God. When you use your telepathic abilities to call unto the human/divine Mary for her intercession to god, that sounds like prayer in any other religion.

Not to mention, that is not the usual way of Catholicism. Look at the majority of Catholics, such as the large populations of Latin American Catholics. Tell me they don't pray to saints. I will happily provide you counter proof.

POLY FTW!

>>2056702
i think you got christianity and judaism mixed up sir

>>2056680
See the patterns of whorshipping. Everybody recognize the authority of the "big-boss" (Yahveh, Zeus, Odin) but many people choose "personal saints" and give them special importance (Saint George, and Mary mother of God for example) on a personal or collective/local level.

Additionally saints and demigods were suppossed to be humans that gained supernatural powers due to divine favour (which was part of their bloodline in the classical context of demigods and strong faith and devotion to God in christianity).

There are various temples dedicated to different saints the same way temples for lesser deities existed in paganism.

I don't get why it is so hard to see the similarities.

>>2056721
ok, again i will state
mary/saints aren't divine.
we pray for their intercession (dear mary, please put in a good word for me with god)
so no.
latin americans have patron saints (mary)
that is fusing patronage with nationality (i find it odd to say the least)

>>2056496
I claim that people should believe in inductive reasoning based on evidence as a first principles axiom. Inductive reasoning based on evidence is science. Science is inductive reasoning based on evidence.

I further claim that people should dismiss specious reasoning such as The Matrix if there exists no evidence either way as not discussion worthy, important, or relevant.

It is a scientific theory that random constructions of things are likely to not exist in the natural world. For example, if I invent or think about invisible pink unicorns, this lends no credibility to their existence, and moreover they are very unlikely to exist at all. Let me be clear that this reasoning applies only to the natural world.

A theist is someone who has a positive belief that there exists some super powerful entity who interferes in human affairs. This interference in human affairs puts the existence of a theist god squarely into the realm of science. The evidence is clear that there is no such interference. Thus, it is scientific to claim that there is no theist god. Thus I am not a theist. Thus I am an atheist.

I dot not claim that or believe with certainty that a theist god does not exist. I merely think that it is the most likely possibility.

>>2056714
A) How many people do you think are actually trying to go to hell? Or do you think other people have different perspectives on life that make different actions seem allowable than is acceptable in your perspective without them actually thinking of themselves as evil? I don't care that religion lies to it's followers, but it's this kind of black and white thinking that it imposes on society that just pisses me off.

B) Your religion only recently made all your life acceptable so that you think you are going to heaven. When Christianity controlled society, it could more closely follow the strict nature of the bible because it wouldn't lose customers. Now that people are leaving and the church has no power, it needs to be more accepting to keep customers. Read your bible. Not every sin is forgivable, and sins are only forgivable if you admit that you've made them and repent. When's the last time you repented of eating shellfish, working on the sabbath, or cutting the sides of your beard? The bible lists a multitude of sins that the average Christian does not even contemplate, let alone repent for. I hope your religion's wrong about the nature of reality, but if it's not, enjoy your hellfire.

>>2056738
>dear mars, please put in a good word for me with jupiter

>>2056714
>you have to be trying to go to hell to get there
or be a good person and don't believe in an omnipotent anthropomorphic God with no solid evidence about the extraordinary claim of his existance

>>2056743
there should be more atheist like you :)
you give your opinion and don't rub it on some theist face
i love you..no homo

>>2056738
>mary/saints aren't divine.
So don't they take their charisma modifier to their AC?

>>2056686
I agree. As soon as they had that conference where they decided that the father, son, and holy spirit were three individual persons, each of whom was God, they became a polytheistic religion.

If you want a monotheistic trinity, then the three are either not separate persons, or they are not all God.

>>2056735
well there are also quite a few ways in which they are different, too many to list!

but yes, those are a few similarities

The veneration of saints, in Latin, cultus, or the "cult of the saints", describes a particular popular devotion to the saints. Although the term "worship" is sometimes used, it is intended in the old-sense meaning to honor or give respect (dulia). According to the Catholic Church, Divine Worship is properly reserved only for God (latria) and never to the saints.[15] They can be asked to intercede or pray for those still on earth,[16] just as one can ask someone on earth to pray for them.
A saint may be designated as a patron saint of a particular cause or profession, or invoked against specific illnesses or disasters, sometimes by popular custom and sometimes by official statements of the Magisterium.[17] Saints are not thought to have power of their own, but only that granted by God. Relics of saints are respected in a similar manner to holy images and icons. The practices of past centuries in venerating relics of saints for healing is taken from the early Church.[18]

>>2056748
actually i don't recall if that is true...
i'm pretty sure purgatory is where they would be believed to go.

>>2056738
Again, the Catholics use words with different semantic values than normal so as to seem unique, and thus can be better.

What does divine mean to you? If, in any other religion, there is an entity that becomes holy (tell me you haven't heard the phrase 'Holy Mother' a thousand times) and is part of heaven, that being is divine. You may not call the saints divine, but they fit this definition as well as any of the other religions' divine beings.
If you use your telepathic powers to communicate with these holy beings, in any other religion that is called prayer.
You may not call it prayer when Catholics think their messages or calls for help to the saints, but in any other religion it is as such.

Maybe you only have one god and only pray to him, but your religion does the same actions and hold the same beliefs as religions that have multiple gods and can pray to demi-gods. Sorry, slugger. That's the way it is, even if you're not comfortable with it.

>>2056762
>i love you..no homo
you catholics would have a better image if your priests could do that too

>>2056766
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinity

Monotheism is fucking bullshit so year.

>>2056764
>>i'm pretty sure purgatory is where they would be believed to go.

It's an interesting Catholic concept, especially considering that it's nowhere in the bible, which is the word of God.
It sounds to me a lot like limbo, which the Church claimed was where unbaptized babies went if they died. That idea was how reality worked for awhile, and then it became unpopular with the customers, and so the Catholic church decided limbo no longer existed. I wonder if purgatory will be a real place for much longer.

>>2056770
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.[1] The doctrine, one of the most important in the Christian faith, states that God is the Triune God, existing as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases,[2] but as one being. Saying that God exists as three persons but is one God means that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit exactly duplicate the nature or being of God the Father in every way. Whatever attributes or power God the Father has, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have as well. "Thus, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are also eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinitely wise, infinitely holy, infinitely loving, omniscient."[3]

>>2056778
semantic loopholes from religious mono-theologians

essentially it makes no difference to the common whorshipper's mind

>>2056728

Sorry sir, Judaism doesn't believe in eternal hellfire. That was some sick, twisted stuff that Christians came up with. Do your research.

>>2056787
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory#Purgatory_in_Catholicism
The Catholic Church gives the name Purgatory to the final purification of all who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified.[15] Though purgatory is often pictured as a place rather than a process of purification, this idea is not part of the Church's doctrine.[16]

>>2056804
0/10
the jewish god is a wrathful god... you need to do a fuckload of research

>>2056804
Daniel 12:2 proclaims "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt." Judaism does not have a specific doctrine about the afterlife, but it does have a mystical/Orthodox tradition of describing Gehenna. Gehenna is not Hell, but rather a sort of Purgatory where one is judged based on his or her life's deeds, or rather, where one becomes fully aware of one's own shortcomings and negative actions during one's life. The Kabbalah explains it as a "waiting room" (commonly translated as an "entry way") for all souls (not just the wicked). The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not in Gehenna forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 12 months, however there has been the occasional noted exception. Some consider it a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Olam Habah (heb. עולם הבא; lit. "The world to come", often viewed as analogous to Heaven). This is also mentioned in the Kabbalah, where the soul is described as breaking, like the flame of a candle lighting another: the part of the soul that ascends being pure and the "unfinished" piece being reborn.
According to Jewish teachings, hell is not entirely physical; rather, it can be compared to a very intense feeling of shame. People are ashamed of their misdeeds and this constitutes suffering which makes up for the bad deeds. When one has so deviated from the will of God, one is said to be in gehinom. This is not meant to refer to some point in the future, but to the very present moment.

>>2056790

Fair enough. Then, do you consider Hinduism a monotheistic religion? The Vedas and the Upanishad clearly state that all Hindu gods are manifestations of Braman. Braman is the godhead of Hinduism, which contains all other of the gods that are worshipped. I would claim that Hinduism is monotheistic and Catholicism is not, because all of Hinduism's gods are really part of the god Braman. The big three of Catholicism are part of the singular godhead, but their evil deity Satan is not, making it a two supernatural force system.

>>2056596
>>2056624
>>2056644
>>2056664
>>2056680
>>2056680
>>2056697
>>2056714
>>2056738
>>2056764
>>2056778
>>2056790
>>2056806

>>2056814
So you've reiterated my point. There is no eternal hellfire.

Quoting Wikipedia and Kabbalah as your expert sources of information on mainstream Judaism brings your credibility into question, but you happen to be right.

>>2056811
maybe... but worst thing he had done was making your life a hell, kill your loved ones before you, eradicate your entire nation and finally sadistically kill you there's no record that he kept someone indifinetely alive just to sadistically torture him for eternity.

>>2056811

The Jewish god is wrathful as hell, yes. He does not damn people to eternal hellfire, though. You've not made a counterpoint to that, so I'm not sure why you're replying to me.

>>2056818
alright....
hinduism is more a school of thought
much like budhism

>>2056830
>>2056840
hivemind

It does tend to resolve some mechanical problems in the plot of the mythologies. Whereas a purely monotheistic(The only ones I've seen are new age cults) religion must attempt to resolve issues of 'bad things' in connection with an often omnipotent deity; a polytheistic religion can simply point to the 'bad things' deity.

>also are you religious?
That's a tough question to answer. I'm certainly not religious in the traditional sense though.

Holy Shit, 4chan just converted me to Christianity.
It told me to "Do Jhesus" while I was typing an anti-religion post.

Check my captcha. Pic related.

>>2056855
well said

>>2056860
lol

Try killing yourself for Jesus or Zeus or Beelzebub next time.

well i'm probably gonna leave
this was a nice thread (no uncivilized poop flinging)
you engaged me tonight /sci/
thanks!

>>2056574
Let's take this into high gear.

>>2056855
do you believe in god?

>>2056878
fuck it, spoke too soon

fixed

>>2056906
i thougt /sci/ was tolerant

>>2056915
>implying this is intolerant
This is merely an accurate observation of the practices of that faith.

>>2056915
its a troll bro...

Religion of Peace

>>2056860

facepalm.jpg

>>2056925
not every muslim is a terrorist

>>2056860

Do Jhesus. Pic related.

>>2056937
Never said they all were. But only an oblivious person would argue that a good portion of them aren't. The fact of the matter is that Islam was started by a warlord with the intention of domination, oppression of freedom, and submission to Sharia law.

>>2056906
double fixed

CAPTCHA: theist impact.
lulz

>>2056951

>>2056951
applying rule 32

CAPTCHA: theignix prison

DOUBLE LULZ

>>2056881

Hmm...which god are you asking about?

Regardless, I don't believe in any deities.

Which is kind of an odd sentence when one thinks about it.

Why would you ever need to believe in a god if it exists? This would be akin to believing in gravity. Foolishness, one doesn't believe in gravity, one simply accepts that gravity is an aspect of our reality.

So, even if gods existed, whatever that may be, I wouldn't believe in them either way. I would acknowledge their existence, and treat them in such a manner.

There's a reason physicists don't change: "I believe in gravity" after all.

/rant ^_^

Captcha = DO YOUR OWN FUCKING HOMEWORK