/sci/ - Science & Math

>>1978340

Why is that funny? Males and females major in every conceivable stupid ass field now so why is biology an exception?

>>mfw you can't respect someone else's major, are too afraid to say shit about it IRL, come on /sci/, talk shit about it, and when you are undeclared.

>>1978404
Hey, unrelated, but where can I find those baby pics? There are so many times when I want to use them.

>Take molecular biology
>First year - 9 people
>Second year - only 4 people got into second year (all males)
>Third year - only 3 people remained
>All women did shit at biology

Why would you laugh at males doing biology? Do you want retards to be doing all the biology related jobs?

Here comes the butthurt biofag brigade.

I never get why so many people major in biology. It's hardly a science compared to chemistry or physics, or even engineering. You'd be better off getting a degree in economics.

biology is like chemistry gone mad. i think it's pretty fuckin' neato.

>>1978415
engineering isn't a science

>>1978405
go to /v/ and ask for a babby pics dump, you'll get loads.

>>1978405
I have a few if you want, but I also have trouble finding them.
I usually wait till someone posts then save them,

>>1978418
My point exactly.

>>1978419
I don't wanna go to /v/. Oh well.

>>1978340
http://www.jobtrainingplace.com/bachelor-degrees/top-10-degrees-for-highest-starting-salary/

Hmmm... Don't see biology here. Probably because the only thing you can do with a biology degree is teach. Statistically speaking, that is. I'm fully aware that there ARE other jobs out there, but none of you biology fags are gonna get em. Have fun teaching (or flipping burgers).

Me personally? I just finished #4. I'm below that starting salary, but I'm in a low income area too, and therefore have a lower cost of living. Enjoy the loss, biofaygs.

Ok this shit has got to stop
BIOLOGY IS A FUCKING SCIENCE
deal with it

>>1978418

>>1978443
>MFW computer science isn't a fucking science, either.

>>1978452
> mfw that's not a face
> mfw you don't known anything about computer science
> mfw I don't have a face

>>1978415
I'm majoring in microbiology because I love science but I'm horrendous at math.

>>1978461
>*know

>>1978443
Number 5 here. Brofist.

>>1978443
#5 for me (computer software engineering), which is one of the fastest growing fields right now. I think I'll get my master's in computer science, though, I fancy myself as more of a scientist than an engineer.

>>1978465
Triple brofist.

molecular biology is the shit

>>1978461
he's right
Computer science is not a science
Is not like you use the scientific method every time you program something

>>1978477
You are confusing computer science with software engineering. Computer science is practically an extension of mathematics.

>>1978443

The list that explains why the US is becoming shit tier at science.

>>1978481

Mathematics is not science either.

>>1978470
Yeah, I've been thinking about that too. For me, it really depends on the state of the economy in a the next year or two. If it doesn't bounce back enough, I might just go back for grad work, but I'd really like to jump into the field.

>>1978481
This.

>MFW I'm a male ecology major and know several programming languages so that I can wright programs like the one I wrote a few days ago that converts Garmin's shitty GPS coordinates into KML that I can open in Google Earth.

>My face when I'm also interested in physics and astronomy

>My face when /sci/ wants to reduce everyone to a single point of personality based on their major instead of allowing for everyone to be the multidimensional human beings that we all are.

It's OK, /sci/. I forgive you. Also, ecology is not Discovery channel. Stop thinking this.

>>1978485
Mathematics is a science in the same way social science is a science. Natural sciences separate themselves by using experimentation. Not all science requires experimentation. Mathematics is a cookie cutter example of this.

>>1978489
I like you. I hate those "god tier science" threads, because they're saying that everyone in a single field is the same, and that they never overlap...

>>1978477
It's not like you use the scientific method while identifying species of leopards either. What of it?

Computer Science is a science in certain applications, just like biology. Simulation, for example. It's an extremely respected use for computer scientists in the scientific community, especially among physicists and astronomy. And astrophysicists.

Also, brofists for all the number 5s. Congrats

>>1978496
Are you by any chance a bit mad because you're majoring in Biology?

>>1978489
>ecology
>astronomy
>physics
oh shit, you are me

>>1978494

If we do not qualify that science requires the usage of the scientific method, then all bodies of knowledge are science and the term becomes meaningless.

>>1978443
I don't see physics or chemistry there either. I know the top one is applied paleontology and at my university is learned through the school of Earth and Environmental Sciences, the softer Biology school (assuming chemistry, bioengineering, virology etc count as harder)

I would point out that any non-industrial scientific research will involve teaching, though, especially if you consider using grad students as slave labour to be teaching.

>>1978505
Looks like we better throw away mathematics then. I guess physics has to go to, which means chemistry is useless, thus rendering biology and earth science moot.

Wait a second.

>>1978512
> physics doesn't require use of the scientific method
lolwut?

>>1978512
>implying physics doesn't use the scientific method

>>1978508
applied paleontology at the top of starting salaries? Fuck no! English majors make more.

http://www.schoolsintheusa.com/careerprofiles_details.cfm?carid=400

>>1978517
>>1978519
Didn't make the connection that physics is literally applied mathematics.

Typical biofag logic. Also, there are people who actually spend a lot of time thinking about classification of knowledge, namely wikipedia, and lo and behold, they consider mathematics a science.

>>1978497

>>It's not like you use the scientific method while identifying species of leopards either. What of it?

It is a step in the scientific method. It would be the part about gathering empirical evidence.

>>Computer Science is a science in certain applications, just like biology. Simulation, for example. It's an extremely respected use for computer scientists in the scientific community, especially among physicists and astronomy. And astrophysicists.

Simulation is part of the science toolbox, like mathematics. And like mathematics, it is not science itself.

>>1978518
Okay, what do YOU call a job entirely revolving around finding the remains of ancient micro-organisms?

>>1978528

Equations in physics are derived from empirical observations, faggot.

>>1978541
Mathematics was the birth of science. And without it there would be no science. So, perhaps math isn't a science. In the same way that God is not a human.

Also, modern scientific breakthroughs would be quite literally impossible without computer science, so I suppose computer science along with math are the gods of science. The creator. The beginning, the source of all science. Bow down and worship math and CS, because they are your saviors. You're welcome.

>>1978494
>Mathematics is a science.
lolwut

No, mathematics is NOT a science.

English Composition is not a science. That is, journal articles must not be written in any language but instead be completely incomprehensible.

>>1978557

Well, meaningful simulation can not predate a scientifically derived method of facilitating computation. Thus, it is out as a creator of science. As for mathematics, it is more accurate to state that both the modern idea of science and math started as the same thing and began to diverge with one end being derived from observation and the other from deduction.

>>1978553
No, they're not. They're derived (great choice of words, by the way) from the ideals of calculus. Thank Leibniz. Or Newton. Either way. Newton's physics observations didn't come until AFTER he developed calculus.

Mathematics - noun, plural

1: the science of numbers and their operations, interrelations, combinations, generalizations, and abstractions and of space configurations and their structure, measurement, transformations, and generalizations

>>1978574
Simulation can be considered a creator of modern science. Countless experiments are now possible, therefore making new avenues of science possible. It is your god. Face it.

As far as your assertion of math and science being the same thing, perhaps that may have been true in the beginning, but science is now useless without mathematical proof. Math is the deity here. Bow down.

By the way, not a math major here.

>>1978557
It's a official, you are an idiot.

1) Science is DEFINED by the scientific method. The closest mathematics gets to empiricism are axioms, and that still is a far cry from the scientific method.

1) Mathematics is a very useful tool, but science doesn't necessitate its use. One can follow the scientific method using qualitative observations alone (though it is tough to find a situation that has absolutely no use for quantitative analysis).

3) Just because mathematics within science since its "formalization" centuries ago doesn't mean science came from mathematics. The same arguments are made for science coming out of philosophy. Neither argument holds water.

>>1978579

Well, Newton created calculus entirely without proof in order to have some sort of mathematical foundation for his theory. As such, calculus was determined by empirical observation, but was not an acceptable mathematical method until after it had been proven in the 1800's. Doing things like this that pisses off mathematicians has become somewhat of a tradition in physics. Where do you think the Dirac delta function came from? It pissed off the mathematician von Neumann so much that he came up with an entirely different mathematical formulation of quantum mechanics that was much harder just so that it would all be properly proven mathematics.

Physicists, like Humanities people, are just bitter because they know their field's declining. Much like postmodernists who say science is no more valid than any other way of knowing, physicists console themselves by saying biology isn't a real science.

>>1978579
>implying mathematicians invented the word "derive"

I am a math major and I don't consider it a science. I also don't consider it a tool, although it could be used as soon. Math is closer to art, if you really study it. It's very axiomatic but there's so much room for creativity at the same time. I wouldn't study math if it were considered a science. I actually really fucking hate when people associate the two, because I'm not a science person at all apart from astronomy, but I love math.

>>1978580
There are multiple definitions of science, some of which have long ago fallen out of common usage, i.e. referring to any body of knowledge. I could create a handbook on the best methods for laying down carpet, and by the definition of science you are using my book could be called "The Science of Laying Carpet".

Science is today defined by observation; in contrast to mathematics which, as previously stated in this thread, only comes as close as axioms to empirical observation.

>Implying we should be /sci/-Science when we are
>/sci/- Science & Math

>>1978597

Well, modern science is much easier with mathematics, but it is not wholly necessary. I could do all of physics experimentally and develop outcomes of future experiments from the outcomes of past experiments and in doing so come up with a rather complicated set of entirely non-mathematical theories. But, it would be much less compact. Mathematics is used because it is abstracted away from the real world and, as such, the same mathematics can apply in many differing cases. So, mathematics is not necessary, it just allows science to say more in less space.

And I do have a math degree, by the way.

>>1978623

I concur that math is more than a tool in and of itself, but it is a tool when applied to science.

>>1978623
>but there's so much room for creativity at the same time.
>implying being creative makes something an art.
By your definition of "art", EVERY FUCKING FIELD IS AN ART! Don't try and imply that artists are more creative than anyone else or that mathematicians are the second most creative. Creativity takes many forms spanning every part of human life. Me using an ordinary straw to stop the whistling of my dish washer through a dirty vent is creative, that doesn't make it art.

>>1978656
Well you've obviously never written up a proof.

>>1978662
> facepalm.jpg

>>1978650
No computers without math, no modern science without computers. Try building, oh, say an LHC without computers. Try creating a map of dark matter in the universe without a computer. Can't be done. At least not within the life of the universe

>>1978756
Also, I just took an extremely satisfying shit... Feels good man... Really, really good.

Assholes.

>>1978340
>biology related jobs

>>1978759
Pics or it didn't happen.

>>1978780
Damn. I would have taken them if I had thought about it.. If I take another one, I will. Also, what the fuck is up with the gibberish captcha? "Fuccicient" isn't even a fuckin word. And neither is "stertan."

>>1978489
>>1978496
According to /sci/ if you have anything less than a Master's in Electrical Engineering you will be flipping burgers the rest of your life.

>>1978756

You choose some piss poor examples. Mapping of dark matter is greatly assisted by computers, but it is far from necessary for it to occur. Similarly for the LHC. The LHC is just a larger version of devices that we had before anything resembling a modern computer that had steering magnets and detectors designed by empirical experimentation. You could easily do the same for the LHC systems, but computation allows it to be done faster and cheaper. So, in both of your examples, computation is not necessary, only useful.