/sci/ - Science & Math

I think it would make things much easier but I would send robots to set a basic colony first and them send the man there.

You'd have to send a whole colony with the guy, or else it would be a suicide mission.

There'd have to be a way to replenish oxygen, grow food, etc. And sending continuous supply flights would be more expensive than a return flight.

>>1951391

>There'd have to be a way to replenish oxygen, grow food, etc. And sending continuous supply flights would be more expensive than a return flight.

Dunno if you heard but all of that is perfectly doable. It's called closed-loop life-support. Sending "air shipments" or frozen food to off-world colonies is batshit insane, Christine O'Donnell style.

>>1951400
Things would eventually get used up. Even if you recycle everything, there's going to be a percentage of loss, and that's irreplaceable on Mars. And if you trip over something important and break it, you're fucked.

It's a suicide mission. One man on his own with no way of getting help from Earth. He will die there.

>>1951410

You'll die on Earth eventually too.

>>1951326
I bawww'd

It's pretty much guaranteed you could find qualified people to be willing to go on a suicide mission for the cause. US would never do it though, hopefully Russia/China/India gets their shit together, then suicide mission could happen.

>>1951410
There is water on Mars. There is soil on Mars. There is Sun light on Mars. There is CO2 on Mars. Why can't he grow plants using what there is there and produce food AND oxygen? Also, carry food on a rocket is much easier than carry humans that need constant life support. You can send dehydrated food to make things even more easier to carry!

>>1951410

It is possible to resupply with regular materials present on Mars, if we wait until we have molecular assembly then it will be even easier.

>>1951435

> Also, carry food on a rocket is much easier than carry humans that need constant life support. You can send dehydrated food to make things even more easier to carry!

Except that it isn't.

>>1951442
>>sending air mail to mars is more expensive than replacing astronauts

What are you retarded?

>>1951435
>water on Mars

Sure. In frozen icecap form. One man isn't going to harvest and melt enough for his needs.

>soil on Mars

Anyone know the composition of minerals on Martian soil? My bet is that not very many plants would grow well there.

>sunlight

Yup. Lots and lots of it, and radiation too because of no atmospheric or magnetic protection.

>CO2

Only a little.

>carrying food on a rocket is easier

What was the figure? $100,000 per gallon of water?

It's much cheaper to send him there and back.

>>1951442
To carry humans you need to carry oxygen, air, water, food, exercice machines, lamps, communication machines to talk with, energy to run all the life suport system.

To carry food you don't need any of those.

>>1951466
>Martian soil around NASA's Phoenix Lander is slightly alkaline and has enough different minerals that it could support Earthly plants
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=martian-soil-fit-for-earthly-life

>>1951466
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090721-am-space-wheat.html

The article is kind of naive thinking that the whole world will band together and send a "human" to mars.

We fucking hate each other, the only way we are going to mars is if we convince the US that Russia is funding an Iraqi nucear oil drill to get the oil out of mars and the mars is completely full of oil underneath the crust.

>>1951470

But you only need to carry the human colonists and their equipment ONCE.

Ferrying food would require periodic launches, and I'm sorry, but you just went full sibbly-wibbly.

>>1951513
Not if he produce most of the needed food there.

See
>>1951503
>>1951497

>>1951511
When we say "Earth" we mean "first would countries that have put a piece of metal into space."

Everyone else is mostly inconsequential. Africa could disappear entirely and the human race wouldn't suffer for it. Less diamonds around, but more money for everyone else because all that foreign aid and military presence isn't there anymore.

>>1951511
How to get funding for science on US

>>1951466
>>1951497
I like the plant problem. It's definitely unresolved but almost certainly possible to do... someday, some lucky scientist is going to get the funding to find out how to make plants grow in mars soil and I'll be jealous. Just thinking about the problem and the possible benefits for the astronauts gets me excited.

Think about it, first you have to figure out how to seed presumably sterile but mineral rich soil with the proper bacteria and fungi to get the nitrogen cycle and all the other cycles going within a greenhouse. Once the fungi and the bacteria have broken down the minerals that the plants cannot, the soil will be much more rich in nutrients that plants can use but now you need to figure out how to make the plants grow in waay sub-zero temperatures. All of this would need to be done in a greenhouse, I think. Through research scientists could find the ideal plants to thrive in the environment, feed the astronauts and produce as much oxygen as possible for breathing through high foliage density or something, I'm sure there must be variations in the rate of plant metabolisms.

Anyways, I think it would be a fun problem to tackle.

>>1951555

I don't know, I think Earth needs Africa. If it went away, the Southern hemisphere would seem so empty. It's barren enough as it is.

I'm going to buy a 3DS just so I can watch all of the 3d videos of mars that Curiosity is gonna capture.

>>1951634
what if everyone in africa just kinda.... ya know, died.
We could convert Africa into a giant wildlife preserve and make it so its our reserved continent for cool research facilities.
OR
Make Africa a continent verison of Jurassic Park.

>>1951624
>how to seed sterile soil with bacteria

Dump truckloads there until it sticks?

sounds like THE most EPIC SUICIDE ever.

now we just need a volunteer.

also reminds me of this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjuyXR5by2s

>>1951624
>how to seed sterile soil with bacteria

Shit on it? So you will get minerals, organic matter, minerals and nitrogen that plants can use and bacteria! Put this all in a greenhouse and seed it!

>>1951680
I volunteer... seriously though, if I were asked I would jump in a heartbeat

>>1951680
Seriously volunteers would be the minor of the problems.

>>1951718
actually a good idea, mammalian scat is rich in nitrogen and the martian atmosphere is not

minecraft mars

>>1951805
I can only imagine the horrors waiting under the martian surface.

>>1951435 There is soil on Mars

Soil in the loosest possible definition of the word. Being more correct "There is regolith on Mars". Soil implies that there are microorganisms which provide nutrients and aerate the soil proving a viable medium for plant life. Considering the salty peroxide hell which is the Martian surface your crops are going to spectacularly fail before the first harvest.

>>1951831
fucking creepers man

>>1951832
read
>>1951503
>>1951497

>>1951832
halophytes how do they work

>>1951831
STEP BACK BRO, THAT'S FUCKING MARTIAN HEMATITE!!! IT'LL WRECK YOUR SHIT!!!

AWWWWW MAN THAT BIG ASS BUMP BACK THERE IS A FROZEN AQUIFER WITH ENOUGH WATER TO FILL LAKE MICHIGAN!!! WITH MARTIAN WATER!!! FUCKING ALIENS MAN!!!

Freeze a bunch of death row inmates and ship them to mars as fertilizer.

I don't think you can come up with a more romanticizable concept as that of a solitary suicide mission to mars.

It is the ultimate tale of man overcoming not only oneself through the isolation of the great void, but also over nature. The classical "stare death in the face and move forward" of traditional military romanticize will pale in comparison to staring at it alone for months.

To be the first man to land on Mars. Giving my life to expand Man kind! Oh what I'd give to be him!

>>1951892
Are they going to be edible? Will they provide complete nutrition or will people get scurvy?

Don't forget shipping pigs, chickens, cows, sheep and the rest of a typical western barnyard across the black gulf between us and Mars. You liberals expect everyone to be vegetarian on this new world?

>>1951887
Did they find microorganisms? Is there a climate on Mars which is amenable to agriculture whether it's outside or under a bubble? Is the regolith only "slightly alkalline" at the pole or is there a uniform distribution across the planet which would be a veritable boon to Martian farmers? What about the peroxides in the regolith?

>>1951914
>liberals
i wasn't suggesting any of that, i'm just pointing out that there are plants that like salty environments

i suppose there would be other obstacles to cross, they probably won't get enough sun over there, and i hear they're going through a nasty drought right now

>>1951914
I don't think pigs, chicken and cow would be effective. Maybe guineapigs and insects would be more effective. Also the first guy to go there might be the first one to found a colony and them other people would join him.

Herpity Derp Derp Do!

>>1951555
you do not seem to realize how much agricultar mineral production comes from African cheap labour

also selling them in ridiculously low prices

>>1951948
Derp

>>1951923
Of course they won't grow them outside! Every life will be inside a dome/bubble/base where it would get the atmosphere needed.

Also, to get light we could reflectors to increase the illumination for the plants.

GUYS GUYS!!!

LET'S FILL A TRACTOR TRAILER FULL OF TARDIGRADES!!!

CRASH LAND IT ON MARS, WAIT TEN YEARS, GO BACK AND BE VISITED BY TARDIGRADE CIVILIZATION

How about use wind energy to produce heat, light and life support? There is a lot of wind on mars isn't there?

>>1951914
>You liberals expect everyone to be vegetarian on this new world?

veganism is the most viable solution if we want to sustain a developing nutritients-poor environment

l2 food pyramid

and I eat two pigs a day before you type shit again

>>1951970
"A lot" of wind in a thin atmosphere won't be enough to tousle your hair let alone spin a turbine regardless of its construction material.

>>1951969
tardigrades are heterotrophs and aerobes

>>1951923

>Did they find microorganisms?
No. See >>1951624

>Is there a climate on Mars which is amenable to agriculture whether it's outside or under a bubble?
There is definitely enough CO2 in the martian atmosphere to support plants. A greenhouse would be necessary or, at the very least, ideal, for sustaining hydrological and nitrogen cycles and thus more life; also for capturing the oxygen, the list goes on. Temperature is the biggest challenge but not insurmountable.

>Is the regolith only "slightly alkalline" at the pole or is there a uniform distribution across the planet which would be a veritable boon to Martian farmers?
I don't know, maybe someone else can answer this.

>What about the peroxides in the regolith?
Can easily be broken down by fungi/bacteria that is seeded before the plants. Also free radicals from the peroxides could be a bonus for causing the bacteria to adapt more quickly to the environment than they would otherwise.

>>1951976
Wow, you queers are easy to troll like /ck/. As soon as someone mentions "liberals" everyone gets up in arms like someone posted "nigger nigger nigger"

>>1951988
>lololol i troll u

>>1951956
yeah whatever

Hellas Planitia seems like a good place to settle
>Although the temperature on Mars can reach above freezing (0 °C), liquid water is unstable over much of the planet, as the atmospheric pressure is below water's triple point and water ice simply sublimes into water vapor. Exceptions to this are the low-lying areas of the planet, most notably in the Hellas Planitia impact basin, the largest such crater on Mars. It is so deep that the atmospheric pressure at the bottom reaches 1155 Pa, which is above the triple point, so if the temperature exceeded 0 °C liquid water could exist there.

>>1952060
forgot link...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellas_Planitia

>>1952060
The only way to fill Hellas is to bombard it with ice from the asteroid belt or the vicinity of Saturn.

Anything else is going to be a waste of resources especially before the air pressure on Mars has been significantly increased to at least half Earth normal and the whole "no magnetic field" thing has been addressed by science.

Keep in mind that a long time ago something huge slammed into Mars's northern hemisphere creating much of the lowland areas. This screwed up the areological cycle, calmed down the core, slowed convection to a minimum and killed its magnetic field.

Water will last for a century or so without protection, assuming it's deep enough, but it will have to be constantly replenished or UV radiation will constantly break it down leaving Mars dry once more.

>>1952069
Can we make a Greek settlement there just for the nameshake? :3

>>1952060

Or use a cave!

>>1952060
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/video/index.cfm?id=839

Biochem-anon here.
I don't think plants could grow on mars.
The reason is mars' atmosphere is around 95% CO2 and around 0.1% oxygen.
Plants do breathe carbon dioxide for photosynthesis, however, they still need to breathe oxygen to grow and undergo cellular respiration. They still have mitochondria and such. there is also probably too little nitrogen in the soil to be sustainable. I think we would need some type of ancient cyanobacteria in order to possibly make mars sustainable for plants or terraformation.

>>1952171
see
>>1951984

>>1952171
The way you talk sounds more like a biology fan than like a biochem major.

bump over the troll threads

I would send some machines first to collect water from the atmosphere and pressurize it to make it liquid. The the machines could cultivate some algae in there so it would produce oxygen. This way when the man reach there he already have water, oxygen and maybe some food depending on the algae used.

Guys, guys.
Mars Semi-Direct.

>>1952377
not the guy that you are replying too byth what he said seems legit

grad eco, btw

Sounds nuts, but I would gladly volunteer for a one-way suicide mission to mars.

Here is the thing, I have MS. I'm fine right now, and will be reasonable for the next decade, but eventually I won't be.

So I think the legacy of being the first man on Mars is something worth sacrificing a potentially very painful future for.

Give me a ship with enough food and water to get there, and enough to survive on the surface for a month or two. I'll keep a diary for daily transmit back to earth, to be collected and published after my death.

I'll use the trip do some other writing, space experiments, and help pave the way for the future attempts at a sustainable return mission.

All in all, seems like a useful way to advance humanity, and after seeing the surface of another planet, I think I could die happily.

>>1953752

Confirmed for /sci/ bro-tier. Godspeed you brave, brave bastard.

>>1953752
http://www.gizmag.com/ccsvi-multiple-sclerosis-ms-cure-zamboni/13447/

Google can answer everything.

>>1953768

The Zamboni Cure is junk-science. It has been debunked, and debunked again. Trust me, I've looked at it, done the research, and there is no objective evidence proving his claims.

Now, there are large advances in understanding MS that are happening every day, but they really still do not understand the Cause, or why there are so many variants, and why people react in vastly different ways once diagnosed.

So, in short, Zamboni's idea is currently totally unproven, and considered totally laughable by the medical community at large.

>>1953774
Well, fuck.

>>1953779

Thanks for trying though.

>>1953784
I heard the study was botched, but they're doing some actual work soon. Or was I misinformed?

>>1953784
Think of it this way, if you survive the next 10 years MS has a very large chance of being cured anyway.

>>1953788

What happened was the study was fucked from the start, and Zamboni prematurely claimed to have Cured MS, without actually curing anyone, or doing the requisite tests, placebo trials, etc. etc.

He was laughed out of the Neurological Community, as was proper. He was seriously butthurt, and basically did the "ILL SHOW YOU GUYS, YOU'LL REGRET PICKING ON ME" routine.

He claimed to be doing further trials, but none have materialized, and he's generally accepted to be a crackpot looking for a bit of fame.

Do note that other scientists actually tested his claims of heavy-metal buildup in the brains of MS patients, and found no such correlation.

In fact, I hate heavy metal, im more of a blues guy.

badjoke.jpg

>>1953790

Oh, I'm aware, still rather take a rocket to mars.

>>1953808
>/sci/ type of guy
>gets MS
>small chance of surviving till 2029 for cure for aging
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

It's things like this that make me sad.

Just give him some toxic compound in a pill that involves a narcotic death

>>1953790
Cure of MS OR PLANETARY CONQUEST!?

WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT, FAGGOT?!

>>1953821
Everything should be cured. EVERYONE should see planetary conquest.

>>1953827
Even Baptists?

>>1953815

Don't let it get you down, I'm fine with it. Sounds insane, but you'd be surprised what you can become used to, and what you can reconcile with yourself.

In fact, I view it as an advantage in many ways, it allows me to be a little more objective about life and it's requisite struggles and goals, and allows me to focus more on what I think is worthwhile rather than being bogged down in the morass of the day-to-day.

I know I'll never get to another planet, or even Space itself, but it's a dream that is hard in dying, and if I was given the opportunity for an endeavor such as this, I'd do it with absolutely no regret.

>>1953827
>>1953827
Genetic "diseaze" is objective.

Nothing to cure here.

>>1953827

And hell, why can't we do research on how MS and Zero-G work together while en-route? There is alot of interesting experiments that could be done on the trip there, and the months alive on the ground.

>>1953832
Baptists will stop being Baptists given enough time and scientific awesome dickwaving.

>>1953842

They haven't proved MS is Genetic at all. In fact, there is a preponderance of evidence to the contrary

>>1953840

Truly /sci/ bro-tier, silly question, but are you a Religious man?

Start a campaign to send MS /sci/bro to Mars!

>>1953862
I'm in, but how?

>>1953857

At the risk of derailing this thread, I'll answer as best I can.

To be short about it, yes I am. I am no dogmatic follower, nor fundamentalist. I choose to believe, without evidence, in a higher power. I think that science, and the understanding of the Universe, is a great thing, because to understand creation is to come closer to understanding God.

Do I believe that everything happens for a reason? No. Do I believe in an afterlife? No, not in anyway we would recognize.

But I do believe in something higher than I.

>>1953865
Send sad letters to the president?

>>1953876
Remember when there was that story of how the US President said man to asteroid by 2025 and man on Mars by 2030? I sent a very, well, inspirational and thought-out letter to his email about those very subjects two weeks before he announced that. Coincidence or not, you decide.

>>1953876

The government would never do it.

Private Space-Travel will be the new Columbians, pushing the frontiers out a bit farther with each horizon. Governments simply have no real interest in Space other than for nationalist dick-measuring, and such an attitude is likely to persist for a time to come.

I am convinced that the first man on mars will be sent there by a private enterprise.

>>1953880
>Governments simply have no real interest in Space other than for nationalist dick-measuring, and such an attitude is likely to persist for a time to come.
So, Technocratic Republic of Sci anyone?

>>1953885

Technocracy is not really my cup-of-tea, but if it works, it works.

>>1953899
Whatever the Australia Project in Manna is, that is the goal.

Since this will never happen, I'm going to write a short story about a one-way one-man mission to mars.

I will post for you guys when i finish it, give me a week.

>>1953904
I don't want to hijack the thread, but anyone happen to know if there's ever been a Manna/Australia Project -specific thread here on /sci/?

>>1953934

Fuck that. Leaving someone on mars to die is unamerican.

We will send a square jawed bastard there, have him plant a flag, bring him back, and give him a god damn ticket tape parade. Then we'll forget about Mars for 40 years because that's how we roll.

After that we'll consider sending someone to Jupiters moons.

>>1953939
So are they archived somewhere or all gone?

>>1953947
>>1953947

*ticker

we could have mars and moon bases for decades by now guys

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29

stop looking for "solutions" when we already have one

>>1953949
1 of I think 2

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8263/scisciencemath127864097.png

>>1953953
>nuclear_propulsion
Well there's your problem. The political ramifications of something like this would be gargantuan.

>>1953957
Oh well can't find second bit, and the first wasn't completely related.

>>1953961

>political ramifications

Yeah, just like when the US invaded a country aganist UN security council decision right?

The media would hurp and durp about it and greepeace woul go BAAAW NUCULAR IS EBUL but half a year later no one would give a shit.

An orion spacecraft could go to the Pluto and back in a year or created a whole prefab town on a planet or a moon. One orbiting orion spacecraft would be enough to have a zero-g laboratory complex.

Also its fallout effect would be abysmal and the launches could happen in sahara or from an already irradiated zone like Khystym(no, Chernobyl is out before you think)

Instead of building these we spent trillions of dollars on space shuttles and rockets and led ourselves into a dead end.

What happened to the progress of the 60s?

>>1953974
>What happened to the progress of the 60s?
Capitalism and government corruption happened.

>>1953977

Yeah, well fuck them. I especially love the part when we FORGOT how to build Saturn Vs and have to develop a new rocket from scratch. Also, parts enough for four more moon missions were scrapped, Skylab was just a part of a Saturn V.

The idea to go on a one way travel to Mars isn't to make a suicide mission. It is to start a colony on Mars. You go first to set everything and settle a base. If you had to come back you would have to take extra rockets, fuel, supply equipament to return and extra fuel to carry the extra stuff making it very expensive and dificult so instead you go there and set a base so other people can go there too in future and expand the base.

>>1953977
We didn't have anyone to compete against. An arms race + an ego are vital for rapid technological growth in that sector, and in many others, at least for now.

bump

bump

I'd go. Fuck Earth.

Go to Mars

Start technocratic republic colony!

>>1957084
If Mars colonization come true it wouldn't be that hard to set a new colony by particular inverstment and call it a new country would it?

bump

>>1957084
All in good time.

>Go to Mars as mated pairs and don't return to Earth
>Your offspring make up a huge portion of the gene pool on the new planet
>Potentially contribute genes to an entire world
>Win evolution forever.

>>1958028
>Then suddenly mutations replace your genes everywhere.

>>1958037
>Still your genetic line.
Seriously, you could literally be the mother/father of an entire world of life. Your 'kids' could have wars, kill off entire groups of themselves, and, still, 100% of the population will have come from you.

(No immigration, Earthfags; I want to be 100%)

>>1958054
*I mean 50%

The Y chromosome will be 100% me, though.

>>1958054
Incest can only go so far.

>>1958037
Oh Anne, even after all of these years you still make us laugh.

>>1951400
we could instead of oxygen recycling machines have gene-engineered blue green algae saving energy the machines would consume and serving as self-reproducing food supply

all we need is surface facing the sun and complimentary lamps when the distance is to great

>>1958071
This is true, but could still get away with being a large contributor to the future gene pool. I would be much more fit than here on Earth.

>>1958054
>Seriously, you could literally be the mother/father of an entire world of life. Your 'kids' could have wars, kill off entire groups of themselves, and, still, 100% of the population will have come from you.
assuming sufficient rate of beneficial mutations

is there U-235 on mars?

Why don't we just send the guy with supplies for one year. Let him die of starvation/dehydration/radiation after that.

>>1958116
That would set a fine example. Why not send suicidal people? A million people die each year from suicide and its climbing. Make them do the dangerous things for science.

We need some more of that good old pioneering spirit, I agree. My family migrated to NZ from the UK, and never expected to return. Some of them did. Perhaps the gene selection in my country has given us a bit more of an adventurous twist, but I'd migrate tomorrow.

>>1958116
It wouldn't cost much more to have a day's less food and a morphine pack instead.

>>1958116
Because would be much better to send a little more and make him set a base for unlimited time?

I wonder how would it be to live on Mars... but I would rather stay here and wait for some cool advanced robots.

Guys, guys, first steps first.

We don't even have a base on the moon.

>>1953947
Made me lol.

>>1958220
Imagine basketball with 1/3rd gravity.

If someone is willing to go on a one way mission to mars why NOT send him? I doubt anyone has the balls anyway.

>>1958299
Yeah, but since we already have been there people aren't that hype about the moon anymore...

>>1958299
I wonder what would be harder... Set a base on the moon is closer and it would be easier to send equipament there but there is no atmosphere to work with or a good source of water. Mars you can get nitrogen from atmosphere and oxygen from CO2 but it is much more far away.

bump

>>1953947
and then when the UN colonizes it we'll overthrow the democratically elected leader of Mars and fuel a genocidal ethnic war for 20 years because maybe there were one or two communists picking their noses there or something
(good little Guatemala)

What would be the effects of living in 1/3G?

>>1960911
osteoporosis

>>1960911
1/3rd G coffee sloshes

>>1960940
That would be a problem if you never come back to Earth?

>>1960966
Thinking about it yes, we would be able to run at high speed but inertia would still be the same and we would break our bones on impact. But we could use protective gear so we would still be able to run fast (but not so fast) and still carry some load but them make turns would be a problem...

bump

Fuck no, the biggest reason why I'm against manned mission to Mars is contamination issues.

Until you find proof of life on Mars with sterile robots human travel there is out of the question.

Once we find microbes, etc then sure go for it.

I don't want so "blarg Im ded" suicide astronought dead on the surface of mars infecting the Martian surface as the decomposing mush leaks out of his suit. .

>>1963216
Don't worry, dead astronauts would just freeze there!

bump