/sci/ - Science & Math

Welcome to a society where the elitest few control the stupid masses, you mean.

Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss.

So when the fuck is Drezden Codak going to churn out another page, huh?

Does he usually take a while to update?

>>1918557
Yes. DK is one of those webcomics that I choose to forget exists for four to six months at a time so that when I look in there will be several updates.

>>1918557
Yes, and he's completely aware of it. He drew a mini-update parodying it, but I can't seem to find it online.

You get used to it though. I've been following Dresden Codak since before the Hob series.

Huge potential for a crazy genius to end up murdering millions of us for science

But I guess that isn't much different from what's happening now. Probably more beneficial too

Yeah, I found his formspring the other day. He says that some models have content being churned out every other day, and that's a good model for some but results in a lot of filler and might result in a larger fanbase, but not one that will buy his work. I'm fine with it, his work is always brilliant.

Benevolent A.I. dictatorship or bust. The higher the technology level of a society, the less I trust people to govern it.

>>1918592
Better get working on that AI.

I'm thinking... could the internet be used to simulate a neural network? Like SETI@home kind of thing.

>>1918601
I've wondered this too.

Academics don't want to spend their time administrating commoners.

>>1918601
You could run a neural net in the same way, but you wouldn't want to, because you can't guarantee that the "neurons" would be on at any point in time. It would be like if the parts of your brain only worked whenever they felt like it (when people have turned their computers on and are running the program), and would spend more time not running than running.

SETI@home and Folding@Home are just using the cycles to perform calculations. It doesn't matter if one computer doesn't complete a chunk, because they can just get another computer to do the same thing.

>>1918617
Alright, that's a good answer. Imagine, though,

Caste-based communism.

That is all.

Fuck yeah! Let's start a technocracy!

bahaha. Anyway whar's Inurdaes lol

>>1918601
inb4 Jane.

>>1918639
Lurking, waiting for /sci/ to speed up.

>>1918641
Dammit! We're not fast enough for Jane yet anyway.

>>1918644
Bahaha. At least you got the reference :D
That was the first thing I thought of when I read that post about internet neural network.

>>1918648
I see Dyson Ring, that huge ass tower that survives millions of years in that manga, and who's that chick with all that shit around/behind her?

>>1918652
I dunno lol

>>1918661
Ah okay. Lets start a technocracy
lol sorry. Just fucking see you everywhere haha

>>1918662
Go into Google Maps, and zoom up on the westernmost part of Tasmania.

>>1918669
lol

>>1918669
Real Tasmanians live in Hobart.

>>1918681
>Implying it's gonna be called Tasmania

>>1918683
I always thought that Australia should federate with New Zealand and call ourselves Oceana.

>how reality functions beyond blind subjectivity
>A system where the true titans of society may wear their well deserved crowns.
>beryond blind subjectivity
>well deserved
oh you...

>>1918687
Fuck no.

>>1918689
Oh! I love big brother!

>>1918687
Gah, then us Kiwis would have to put up with your Australian government. You guys are all generally pretty swell, but I'm not a huge fan of only getting "MA 15+" games.

>>1918695

Ausfalian government would be obliterated.

THE TECHNOCRATIC STATES OF OCEANA.

>>1918700
We could have a space program and everything!

>>1918553
>implying China isn't run by engineers, sceintists, and technical experts
>implying living in China isn't shitty
cool story brah

>>1918709
Shuddup.

>>1918704
Oceanian Space Agency (OSA)
GOALS ~~
Colonization of Moon and Mars
Space Elevator
Asteroid mining base at top of elevator
Drafting plans for terraforming Mars
Drafting plans for floating colony in atmosphere of Venus
Drill probes to Europa and drafting plans for a Europan colony

>>1918709
living in china rocks

also cheapest chinese in the globe

>>1918704
Yeah... not so much.

Australia: 22 million people.
New Zealand: 4.5 million people.
Hypothetical Oceana: 26.5 million people.

China: 1 billion.
European Union: 501 million.
United States: 300 million.
Russian Federation: 150 million.
Japan: 125 million.

>>1918709

>implying china is?

not talking about shitty btw, it is.

>>1918718
No fun.

>>1918718
Aus/NZ are full of smart people. Encourage immigration to those interested in joining our space agency and other high level degree jobs etc.

>>1918733
Australia has impressive mineral wealth and the world's largest proven reserves of Uranium.

BUT, it's still a small nation, and only increases in size by about 25% with the inclusion of New Zealand.

I agree that encouraging immigration is the way to go, But it's going to be hell to convince the Australian public that THE BOAT PEOPLE should be allowed in. They're irrational idiots spoon fed propaganda by the media for the last decade.

If Australia goes Nuclear, then... it would be glorious.

>>1918733
>Aus/NZ is full of smart people
Why, thank you.

>>1918715
>Space Elevator
As ridiculous as the Lofstrom Launch Loop is, it's more feasable than a space elevator, at least with any foreseeable technology.
Max CNT length we can make is like one foot, whereas we have the technology available to make a loop, just a question of funding.

>>1918748
All you need is a good STEM funding program. The US kinda has one, it's that more than anything that does it. More kids need to get into DIY tech, too.

>>1918748
I'm not talking about boat people, I'm talking about engineers and scientists from the former United States of America, Europe, East Asia. Boat people are not a big problem. Pic related.

>>1918752
I'm an Australian too heheh.

>>1918765
Kiwi here. I wondered where you were from, all I could tell was that it wasn't America.

Singapore, the technocracy you are thinking of?

http://bigthink.com/ideas/21853

>>1918759
>Max CNT length we can make is like one foot
It gets longer every year. Back in 2000 the maximum length of CNT was about a millimeter or so.
The purpose of looking into building a space elevator would accelerate the development of the technologies involved quite a bit as well.

>>1918806
How would education work? Heavy focuses on sciences, or what?

>>1918820
Well, heavier, and a broader variety of things to learn from at a younger age, being able to specialize earlier. Critical thinking is a must. And I'd ask the guy who does Khan Academy to help.

>>1918765
>>former United States of America

Oh you.

I'm not really convinced Australia has the wealth to fund such a program, and if they did, it would probably be better spent elsewhere.

Such as the most important single thing we can spend money on. Artificial Intelligence research. If we can successfully deploy a Strong A.I., everything else we want will fall into line.

>>1918832
For me some actual teaching of science in Primary school would have been great. I was desperate to know how the world works, but my mum was a writer, my dad a businessman, and I didn't know how to use the internet. I read heaps of books, but you do need someone to explain the equations when you're seven.

>>1918831
http://www.escapefromamerica.com/2010/06/escape-from-america-the-grim-truth/
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-hyperinflation-will-happen-in-america-2010-9
http://www.news.com.au/business/us-economic-fix-print-money/story-e6frfm1i-1225940206587

>I'm not really convinced Australia has the wealth to fund such a program, and if they did, it would probably be better spent elsewhere.

Cynthia picked up the thread. "Eric's key concept was extremely simple. What he realized is that, in a robotic civilization, everything can be free."

"How is that possible?" I asked.

"It works like this. Let's say that you own a large piece of land. Say something the size of your country of Australia. This land contains natural resources. There is the sand on the beaches, from which you can make glass and silicon chips. There are iron, gold and aluminum ores in the soil, which you can mine, refine and form into any shape. There are oil and coal deposits under the ground. There is carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen in the air and in the water. If you were to own Australia, all of these resources are 'free.' That is, since you own them, you don't have to pay anyone for them and they are there for the taking."

>>1918847
Resources are finite and so is the workforce. Even if you abolish money, until you have armies of robots doing everything for you then there's still only X amount of shit you can do with what you have.

Space ships are expensive to build because the components are expensive. Those are expensive because they take extreme precision engineering, and time for teams of world-class experts to do the designing. Before they can design it, they need the technology to do so.

We can save on R&D by hijacking talent from America, sure, but it's still not going to be "free", even if you implement total communism.

A quote from Eisenhower:

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.”

>>1918873
>Space ships are expensive to build because the components are expensive. Those are expensive because they take extreme precision engineering, and time for teams of world-class experts to do the designing. Before they can design it, they need the technology to do so.

So, 3DSMax and a really fucking powerful precision laser?

>>1918890
If only it were that simple.

>>1918704

Wait lol, australia and new z don't have space programs?

Brazil confirmed for having superior science than ausfalia HUEHUEHUEHUE.

>>1918893
Why isn't it? I don't doubt it, just you need to be a bit clearer if you ever want to convince anyone of anything ever.

>>1918893
How about this? A 'government' owned spaceship-making plant. Everything is free practically in materials and energy transported, all you need is interested engineers and scientists. That's all. People that will have no 'need' to do work, everything and more provided for them, and the opportunity to do what they want. A society where man is limited only by his imagination and knowledge.

This is my Rapture.

>>1918899

>>1918899
I know, feels incredibly bad man. But then again, BRIC etc.

>>1918899
I think we have a private company or two, but nothing all that serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4BW1DeakOk

There.

Sup?

Are you guys actually responding to the Boxxy threads? Just report and hide them.

>>1918847

>http://www.escapefromamerica.com/2010/06/escape-from-america-the-grim-truth/
>http://www.businessinsider.com/how-hyperinflation-will-happen-in-america-2010-9
>http://www.news.com.au/business/us-economic-fix-print-money/story-e6frfm1i-1225940206587

>my face when Inuardes sees the world through the eyes of Tea Party / Fox News supporters without even knowing it

>my face when Inuardes doesn't realize the entire developed world uses the same economic system America uses

>my face when Inuardes ignores that Europe and Japan have far greater economic problems than the US

>my face when Inuardes will live under the American empire for the rest of his life and on his death beth still wish america was destroyed

>Sad frogman.pdf

>>1918960
>my face when you misspelled my name four times
>my face when it's not only the Tea Partiers seeing how much shit America's in
>my face when the economic problems Europe and Japan have are relatively small compared to the US
>my face when the Soviet Union collapsed practically overnight with not much warning

>>1918975
My dad predicted that happening. I feel proud.

>>1918902
Building spacecraft requires lots of things. You need machinery that can build things to insane tolerances. You need precision optics. You need special ceramics and composites. You need special fuels. You need high quality workers.

These things can't be built using only high powered lasers and 3DSMax. Even if you can get the labor for free with enthusiasts who are doing it because they want to, you will either need to import shitloads of things that you can't build yourselves, or you will need to create an industry to build those things, which is even more expensive.

NASA at its peak was spending north of 30 billion US dollars per year. You can attribute a portion of that to beaurocratic inefficiency and a lot of it to R&D costs, but all they did with that money was send robots around the solar system and land on the moon.

The kind of ambitious space program we're talking about with space elevators and huge orbitals and shit is not going to be cheap. The Chinese space program would be a good place to look for the cost of playing catchup with the Americans... except their budgets are not public.

>>1918980
Get them out of America, it's gonna get ugly here!

>>1918986
Yup. Get robots to build all that. All that's needed now is blueprints, and of course, robots.

>>1918932
Ahh, Earthzakarov. Why don't we talk anymore?

>>1918986
Playing devils advocate here, but... All the money we should consider is the money spent on wages and resources. If we have people doing the work anyway so we don't need to worry about wages, and the resources come from the ground with labour done by robots, where are the costs going to come from?

Switching back to my actual views, these projects seem similar to the ones found in Stalin's 5 year plans.

>>1918975

>my face when you're comparing the US to the soviet union

>my face when Europe and Japan have terrible population growth and higher debt problems than america

>my face when america has a lower population density than Europe and Japan, and more arable land than China with less than half of their population

>my face when the entire first world uses the same economic system america uses, and if america falls so does the first world

>my face when you as an Australian have a more negative view of America than the japanese, germans, and vietnamese/ countries which we bombed to hell

>my face when you need to pull your head out of your ass and wish for the destruction of a country that has sent men into battle in your defense

>my face when you sound like an ass hole

>Stephen-colbert_laughing.webp

>>1919020
Hold on one minute, both of you.

One, this technocratic society is just a pipe dream. Two, if we did manage to set up an entirely resource-based economy akin to The Australia Project, we could have a world class space program provided conditions for living here were good enough. Three, it would be a world class space program, but it wouldn't have space elevators and other unrealistic shit.

>>1919005
>>1918998
Robots? Wtf are you people on about?

Aren't we talking about Aus+NZ Federating?

Does NZ have an army of slave robots I wasn't informed about? Where are they coming from?

Trans-human aristocracy or Anarchy ftw.

>>1919060
We federate and set up Inurdaes' thing.

>>1918911
>People that will have no 'need' to do work

In before mouth breathers argue something about human nature "not working that way".

>>1918899
yes we have our own space program, i spent $3500NZD and launched my own satellite. i rent it out to UK. taurangafag here

>>1919125
Got any links?

While I'd love to jump ship and get out of this country I don't have the money, the skill set, nor any idea where to go(anywhere but here is not an answer).

>>1919177
I've got a UK passport myself, as well as an NZ one. It's great, I can go anywhere in the EU for as long as I want, as well as Aussie and NZ.

>>1919193
So what's NZ like? I hear lots of the technocratic types saying it'd be a good place to 'set up' as though it's some paradise ready to be built in.

Though the Aussies I know don't seem to like the place or the people there much.

>>1919201
We've got heaps of arable land, unexploited resources, rain (unlike Australia, they jelly we can leave our sprinklers on), lots of unexploited resources. If your Aussie friends like rugby you can dismiss their opinion of NZ. It's just trans-Tasman rivalry.

>>1919212
Do you have spiders the size of a large dog like Australia? I wouldn't want to have to hermetically seal my house.

>>1919201
Australia doesn't 'really' hate NZ, it's just sibling rivalry.

New Zealand is to Australia as Canada is to the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy

>>1919217
We've got nothing that could kill anyone. A lot of our birds can't fly because they've evolved to survive without predators. And we've got birds which are in the process of losing flight, in a somewhat humourous way.

>>1919229
I was on holiday in Australia once, and twice in the news they implied that NZ was an Australian state.

Also, there were big fucking lizards and shit. Everything is trying to kill you in Australia.

>>1919239
>>1919229

I see not that it matter much since being an Amerifag and a poorfag makes getting a degree just to get a work visa non-viable. Good to know though.

Odd time to be talking about NZ, considering it's 2:20 am here.

>>1919249
It's 9AM on the East Coast of the US... been up all night, don't see why there wouldn't be NZs that do the same.

>>1919247
Why not study here?

>>1919252
Fair enough.

>>1919255
I'm not sure how that would help the poorfag portion of my problem.

While I assume your education isn't as ridiculously expensive as ours would those lower costs apply for non-residents?

>>1918553

>beyond blind subjectivity

goooood luck there

>>1919263
Ah, forgot about international fees. If you're coming to NZ, you'll probably want to go to Auckland.

http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/for/international-students/is-tuition-fees-and-costs/is-estimated
-annual-tuition-fees-for-international-students

That's in NZ remember, and you can still get a US Federal loan.

>>1919280
Well that certainly something to think about at least, thanks for your assistance.