/sci/ - Science & Math

are you a fuckin ass

>>1893280
No, I'm just retarded and interested in philosophy/logic.


Plz explain.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstraction

>>1893288

lol'd

>>1893288
It's still to complicated.

Herp derp.

How is an abstraction complicated for you? It's just a blurb. A tiny fraction of a summary meant to give you an idea of what the whole thing is like.

Or I just got trolled...

>>1893299
I still don't understand.

>>1893304
It's tl;dr

Abstractions are "simplifications" of something else. To abstract is to simplify. Abstractions are made because thinking and dealing with things in their true complexity is too difficult.

So for instance, we refer to each other as "people" or "humans" instead of referring to them as collections of quadrillions of atoms. We consider it to be a "face" instead of a nose, ears, fringe, eyes and mouth.

We consider explanations such as "he went to the shop because he was hungry" to be very abstract, while an explanation like "a collection of particles interacting to create a complex system changed its position in space to another location that houses things it was looking for because it was running out of energy" to be a non-abstract explanation.

>>1893308
But I wanna read it.

Also go back to /new/ faggot.

>>1893314
No, I was saying that an abstraction is basically tl;dr just not on 4chan/internet.
/sci/ is my real home. /new/ is comic relief.

>>1893319
Phhht.

Socialist.

>>1893312
Then why do when people say "HOMG ABSTRACT ALL ALL PREETTY CRAZY PSYCHEDLIK COLORS"?

Is it something about reducing things to their basic elements or what?

>>1893332
We can make this into a 200+ reply shitfling. Do you want to fuck up your own thread?

>>1893335
LOL THREAD DERAIL

U MAD NIGGER?

LIBERTARIANS HELP SOCIETY MORE THAN LIBERALS

BY ACTING IN THEIR RATIONAL SELF INTEREST

>>1893308
>>1893314

>>1893340
Funny, because I'm actually a libertarian too. Just not what an American would consider a libertarian.

>>1893334
"Abstract art" is art that represents concepts without attempting to be a realistic depiction of something in the real world.

Famous paintings of Abstract Art that feature people have things like noses, ears, eyes and so on, but look nothing like real life. Arguably, stick figures and such could be considered to be abstract art.

Trippy fractals and such work usually gets considered "Abstract" because they are shapes, colors and so on that are not supposed to "be" anything in the real world. They are just kind of there. This use of the term abstract is related to the meaning I gave previously, because "Abstract" things don't really exist. They are separate from reality.

An abstraction is a nigger.

Happy now OP?

>>1893347
>he think libertarian socialist isn't an oxymoron

Quit calling yourselves libertarians you fucking irrational retards.

How is having a tyrannical state control you and force you to work in any way freedom?

>>1893361
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
>Libertarian socialism (sometimes called social anarchism,[1][2] and sometimes left libertarianism)[3][4] is a group of political philosophies which promote a non-hierarchical, non-bureaucratic, stateless society without private property in the means of production. Libertarian socialism is opposed to all coercive forms of social organization, and promotes free association in place of government and opposes the alleged coercive social relations of capitalism, such as wage labor. The term libertarian socialism is used by some socialists to differentiate their philosophy from state socialism[5][6] or as a synonym for socialist anarchism.[1][2][7]

Any people in any sort of governmental power would be selected for having done amazing in their field they wish to administrate; i.e. a technocracy.

At least make yourself not look like a blundering fool.

>>1893369
>wikipedia

lol

Obviously you don't understand economics and actually believe the government can provide you services simply by wishing them to you.

You are the definition of irrational.

>technocracy.

LOL you authoritarian pieces of shit are stupid enough to believe just because people are smart they are rational and moral and will bring humanity prosperity

Yeah let's put all of our faith in one person.

Enjoy worshiping humanity while I am a free man using my free market technology that will bring transhumanism.


Libertarianism is the future whether you like it or not. Your worthless and static ideologies will be irrelevant in the future.

>>1893369
>he still believes in a democracy

Sure is retard and evil authoritarians in here.

I vote for whatever joke party is most popular that election. I'm waiting for the Bill and Ben party to get a seat.

>>1893380
>Obviously you don't understand economics and actually believe the government can provide you services simply by wishing them to you.
Resource-based economy, you derp.
>You are the definition of irrational.
You are the definition of ad hominem.
>stupid enough to believe just because people are smart they are rational and moral and will bring humanity prosperity
First rule of Technocrat Club: NO CUNTS ALLOWED
>Enjoy worshiping humanity while I am a free man using my free market technology that will bring transhumanism.
Free market capitalism is the best possible path to bring the technological capability of transcending human labor and scarcity. It is not an infallible system to be used for hundreds of thousands of years into the far future. The closest example of a society I would love to have is the Australia Project portrayed in Manna.

Feel free to go 'gay authoritarian socialist piece of scum'

>>1893392
>Resource-based economy

FUCKING SCIENCE HOW DOES IT WORK

FUCKING ECONOMICS HOW DOES IT WORK
FUCKING CALLING SOMETHING A RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY WITH NO BASIS IN ACTUAL ECONOMICS

DERPDERPDERPDERPDERPDERPDERP

Dude free market capitalism is the only thing that will bring humanity into a post capitalist utopia. Any form of socialism won't enter into this. Sorry to break your bubble.

Complex systems and reductionism FTW

>'gay authoritarian socialist piece of scum'
Seeing how I am a furry and a faggot myself I won't do that.


Does this picture cause you much asspain?

>>1893312
Thanks BTW

>>1893407
>FUCKING CALLING SOMETHING A RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY WITH NO BASIS IN ACTUAL ECONOMICS
Pretty sure that's the point.
>Dude free market capitalism is the only thing that will bring humanity into a post capitalist utopia. Any form of socialism won't enter into this. Sorry to break your bubble.
....YOU DIPSHIT I BELIEVE IN THE VERY SAME THING. Capitalism is meant to be transcended, not replaced.
Picture is regrettable but does not cause me mental anguish.

>>1893411
ANYWAYS WE AGREE CAN WE HAVE GAY FURRY SEX NOW?

>>1893424
Not into the furry shit, sorry bro.
Somehow I'm guessing that you're getting a furry body when transhumanism comes around.

>>1893427
>Somehow I'm guessing that you're getting a furry body when transhumanism comes around.


God damn it's like you read my every thought.

:3

Funny, you guys essentially have the same views but give yourself different labels.

I'm pretty much a libertarian, except we need some labor laws to stop people getting fucked over, I like my beaches to be publicly owned and the free market always makes them depressing, and there needs to be some kind of healthcare funding, preferably in the form of a medical savings account. Since that money has to come from somewhere, I generally suggest a low income tax rate so we have a level of redistribution of wealth that guarantees human rights and access to basics resources without discouraging earning.

>>1893430
Gay babyfur detected.

WTF man?

>>1893434
Don't judge. I bet you have some fucked up fetishes.

>>1893430
>babyfur
Oh c'mon man, as a furry at least get something a bit more respectable.
>>1893433
The lines inbetween capitalism and communism get blurred with post-scarcity.

>>1893433
Except that the only reason health care costs have skyrocketed have been because of the government.

>>1893437
They don't just blur, they disappear. Capitalism and communism are scarcity based systems. Remove scarcity from capitalism, and you removed need as a motivating factor, as well as protection of prosperity as you just made prosperity guaranteed, pretty much everything. Remove scarcity from communism, and there is no wealth re-distribution, everyone already has plenty.

>>1893450
Oh well, I usually label myself as left libertarian anyway.
The future will be glorious.

>>1893440
Hmm? I don't see how a basic medical savings allowance for each person causes any problems.

>>1893440
I'm sure this exponential increase is due to us discovering and researching things. AIDS was discovered in the 80s. Millions and millions have been spent researching it. Cancer is in that same boat. Medicine is expensive, because it takes years of research, done by people who spent hundreds of thousands going to college, and etc etc.

>>1893457
The only thing we need to do is provide a very minimal voucher for the very poor, only for emergencies.

I'm pretty sure in an advanced free market economy this can be provided by voluntarism and private charities.

>>1893467
>The only thing we need to do is provide a very minimal voucher for the very poor, only for emergencies.
Or you could, y'know, provide healthcare for any citizen that wants it.

>>1893465
Look at the graph again.

The line tilts every time the government gets involved in the medical market.

It's just the way complex systems work.

Don't fuck with them.

Ever see that shitty movie butterfly effect?

Also it's kind of fucking shitty they're getting involved in the market that's supposed to save humanity from death.

>>1893469
>Or you could, y'know, provide healthcare for any citizen that wants it.

Jesus fuck bro, the free market can actually do it. All the government can do is wish and regulate and rape good, moral people.

Wishing that everyone gets health care is a nice idea but it's just a dream and forcing this irrational dream on the economy forces the very poor to not get health care, fucks over medical advancement and weakens the economy.

The economy is society whether you like it or not.

Yes.

>>1893473
I certainly agree, the government should stay out as much as possible. However, a medical savings allowance merely means that the individual has a choice about what healthcare they get, can afford what an average person needs, and that the costs for the government will be predictable.

>>1893469
See:
>>1893440

>>1893479
I'd rather pay higher taxes than deal with the clusterfuck you call the privatized American health industry.
I have an American friend who had good private medical coverage in the States and he says that the default Australian healthcare is way better than the shit back there.

>>1893481
>However, a medical savings allowance merely means that the individual has a choice about what healthcare they get

Yeah but working people(as in anyone working at mcdonalds part time) could afford medical care and would strengthen the economy.

Why should we help them out? It would only raise prices for them?

What we need is a voucher/welfare program for the lazy cunts that fucked up their lives and have nothing else.

In a free market economy this can easily be provided privately.

>>1893488
>I'd rather pay higher taxes than deal with the clusterfuck you call the privatized American health industry.
I have an American friend who had good private medical coverage in the States and he says that the default Australian healthcare is way better than the shit back there.


HAVE YOU BEEN READING THIS ENTIRE FUCKING THREAD?

THE AMERICAN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS AN EXPENSIVE,. BLOATED PIECE OF SHIT!!! AND IT'S YOUR FAULT


FOR FUCK SAKES DUDE:
>>1893440

>>1893488
>I'd rather pay higher taxes than deal
Enjoy your self-sacrifice. Imagine how much cheaper health care costs would be if the government got out of the way and let the free market work?

>>1893488
>I'd rather pay higher taxes
Enjoy your self-sacrifice. Imagine how much cheaper health care costs would be if the government got out of the way and let the free market work?

>>1893488
>the default Australian healthcare is way better than the shit back there.

Then why do people come from all over the world to use our healthcare system?

Hurrrrrr
Even canadians hate their health care system and come here because of shit quality, laziness, and waiting times.

>>1893509
>shit quality, laziness, and waiting times.

Not to mention lack of medical innovation.

>>1893509
Rich people go to the US. Poor people don't die or go bankrupt in their own countries.

>>1893515
FACT: Poor people in the us under an actually free market economy would have CHEAPER medicine than under a socialized medicine system.

Imagine if the health care market was like the computer market?

>>1893513
>>1893563
>>1893509
>>1893502
>>1893496
I would like to see your glorious free market healthcare be amazing please. Links welcomed.
Don't worry, I'll wait.

>>1893582
See:
>>1893440
Yet again.

>>1893582
Freemarket pretty much brought you the high standard of living you have today.

There's no reason why the medical market shouldn't act that way.


It's the only compassionate choice.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Someone briefly summarize each system in the top 20.

>>1893599
I'm just seeing a government fuckup there, anything else?
>>1893604
I'm sure if I was impoverished as I was once the free market wouldn't give a damn about me.

>>1893609
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE USA HAS A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>delicious tears

>>1893609
>Morocco has better healthcare

>>1893618
>the free market wouldn't give a damn about me.
Hmmmm, how would you get cheap food without having to build a farm, go hunting?

How would you get shelter without building it yourself and probably dying in the cold?
What about your clothing? You would have to pick your own cotton and make your own jeans.


Face it, you need society(the market) whether you like it or not.

>>1893604
I haven't read a single post in this thread except this one.

That said, it compelled me to reply. Privatized health care is fucking ridiculous. If anything, privatizing the health care system in my country has led to major increases in waiting lists and a general tendency to make cut-backs on the chronically ill. Doctor's salaries exploded while the quality of care slowly declined. It's so bad now that medical specialists have made cartel agreements about their salaries. Fuck privatized health care. Let it be run by the state, just like the fire department and police.

>>1893632

>>1893609
FACT: The USA has the best medical system in the entire world, this is a common fact. Everyone comes here.


It's just that other non systems provide healthcare to the most number of people.

It's a shame we can't do that here by bringing back the free market.

>>1893641
So you're literally saying you should be allowed to be lazy while others feed you and clothe you?

You shouldn't have to work at all?


Just because YOU don't want to make something of yourself

>>1893645
>FACT: The USA has the best medical system in the entire world, this is a common fact. Everyone comes here.

>>1893638
>If anything, privatizing the health care system in my country has led to major increases in waiting lists and a general tendency to make cut-backs on the chronically ill.
>DIDN'T READ THE FUCKING THREAD


FSHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU CAN'T JUST COME INTO A THREAD AFTER WE'VE MADE A CONCLUSION YOU AUTHORITARIAN SADISTIC FUCKING RETARD, IT'S YOUR FAULT HEALTH CARE IS SO EXPENSIVE:
>>1893440


>I haven't read a single post in this thread except this one.


LOL FUCKING EXACTLY

>>1893649
>Veterans make up 1 in 4 homeless
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-11-07-homeless-veterans_N.htm

And no, I plan to do something wonderful with my life.

>mfw people think the free market can provide healthcare
>mfw there is not a single economist on /sci/

Holy fucking shit, have you never heard of asymmetrical information and moral hazard? It's fucking impossible to provide an actuarially fair insurance in a goddamn lemon market.

You're either a 4/10 troll, or simply fucking retarded.

Fucking hell, /sci/...

>>1893652
LOL Kay.

Please tell me why I need to explain to you why people from every country on earth(including my canadian father after almost dying from lymphoma) come here for the highest quality medical care?

Why do i need to explain something so obvious?

>>1893645
And it is only 7 times as expensive as the next most expensive healthcare, and considerably more risky. You are 3 times as likely to get an after surgery infection than in Sweden, and their hospitals are fucking dirty.

>>1893657
umad?

Also, to me it looks like an ongoing discussion. At least give me the tl;dr or reply to the contents of my post. Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care. That's just my observation from what happens in my country after health care was privatized.

>>1893667
>Please tell me why I need to explain to you why people from every country on earth ... come here for the highest quality medical care?
[citation needed]

>(including my canadian father after almost dying from lymphoma)
Canada is not the standard for socialized healthcare across the world. That is an association fallacy.

>>1893658

Oh my god, fuck you seriously.

All you assholes do is try to make us seem like fucking assholes that don't care about people. It's your douchbag move that you all rally around.

For the millionth time in a free market economy, veterans would be provided by private charities that would have massive surplusses.


If we ended welfare today it would be greatly beneficial to the poor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwTDKt_k9kQ
You're an asshole.

>>1893675
>Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care.
>Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care.
>Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care.
>Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care.
>Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care.
>Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care.
>Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care.
>Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care.
>Privatizing health care makes it expensive and decreases the quality of care.

LOL he literally believes the opposite of reality.

That liberal brainwashing really got you didn't it.

>>1893677
>All you assholes do is try to make us seem like fucking assholes that don't care about people.
Have you TALKED to the libertarians on /new/?
>For the millionth time in a free market economy, veterans would be provided by private charities that would have massive surplusses.
And this money comes from...
>If we ended welfare today it would be greatly beneficial to the poor.
[citation needed]

Also watched the video, don't end welfare, just make it not a governmental clusterfuck.

>>1893677
We've been down that road. It's called the late 19th through early 20th centuries. And it sucked. The destitute were not adequately cared for at all. Even the average working man had little to show for a lifetime of busting his ass, while the robber barons slowly amassed incredible dynastic wealth. Why do you people want to bring this back? The only thing that has ever worked well is a mixed economy.

>>1893676
>Canada is not the standard for socialized healthcare across the world.

Oh wow.

It's an average socialized medicine system. I'd hate to see what the worst one is.


Many other systems in european countries are exactly the same.

There are doctors strikes every year because they're sick of your shit.

also gigantic waiting times and indoctrinated eurofags thinking it's OKAY that they have to die waiting.

It's disgusting,

>>1893661
This, you idiots

>>1893695
>Many other systems in european countries are exactly the same.
[citation needed]
>There are doctors strikes every year because they're sick of your shit.
[citation needed]
>also gigantic waiting times and indoctrinated eurofags thinking it's OKAY that they have to die waiting.
[citation needed]

The longest time I have or any of my friends have experienced waiting for a doctor is about a few hours. Max. And it's usually within 30 minutes.

>>1893693
>while the robber barons slowly amassed incredible dynastic wealth.

>he literally believes in the myth of the robber barons
>he actually believes wealth is "distributed" instead of created
>he thinks capitalism is a zero sum game

Nope.

Also those were shitty times for all.

Even the government back then couldn't provide enough medicine. There wasn't enough doctors/quality medicine to go around.
Sure is creationists in here

>>1893692
>And this money comes from...
Themselves.

Anything else you'd like to say?

>>1893692
>
Also watched the video, don't end welfare, just make it not a governmental clusterfuck.

No, end welfare, make it a private thing.

Let free humanity decide instead of gangsters.

>>1893692
Before our current Obamacare, medical insurance was my option. I opted not to get it. I took home more of my paycheck and at the hospital, I had reduced prices because I payed cash. A checkup and testing was about 25 to 100 dollars. An MRI was only 400. A stayover at the hospital and use of drugs could run me about 200.

On mandatory medical insurance Several hundred dollars is taken from paycheck every month whether I go to the hospital or not. How much they charge? Fuck of a lot more than a hundred dollars.

The current healthcare system in America just went from optional health insurance to mandatory health insurance, that is the ONLY change. And it SUCKS.

>>1893704
>The longest time I have or any of my friends have experienced waiting for a doctor is about a few hours. Max. And it's usually within 30 minutes.

Numerous citations needed.

My dad has to wait a year to even get an MRI.

and canada is held up as one of the greatest socialized medical systems.
FACT: 90% of medical research companies left canada after them implemented this system.

>>1893688
Like I said, respond to the contents of my post. Your argument as presented in your post is: "LOLOLOL NO YOU RONG LIBERAL".

Seriously, just watch what happened after privatization of health care by the Dutch government.
- Employees (not the medical specialists because they are in essence freelancers) of hospitals are the first in line to be victimized when job conditions are stripped as soon as unemployment rates rise. This means the specialists still get payed top salaries while care decreases because of over worked nurses and other staff. Prices are still up to the roof because of board room directors and specialists' salaries.
- Fucking cartels have formed. That's not a joke.

>>1893661
>MY FACE WHEN IDIOT "SCIENTISTS" REALIZE THAT THE FREE MARKET PROVIDED EVERYTHING ELSE THEY TAKE FOR GRANTED IN LIFE AND THEY DON'T THINK IT CAN PROVIDE THEM HEALTH CARE

SURE IS FULL RETARD in here.

>>1893717
>implying science is free market
WE GET MONEY FROM TAXES AND THE GOVERNMENT YOU IDIOT

Privatized science will never work.

>>1893715
>as soon as unemployment rates rise.
>He thinks they don't go back down dramatically and stay down like in every other free market, I.e computers.
>Fucking cartels have formed

What? Cartels that have to provide a service to humanity at a low price or they go out of business?

LOL Ohhh wow that's so bad. We should stop that.

lol

>>1893719
>implying the Green Revolution hasn't been mostly funded by private sources
Privatized science works. It might be much more directed in it's goals, but saying it doesn't work is just being misinformed.

>>1893719
>Privatized science will never work.


AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Dude, do you realize what the fuck you're saying?

You want one facility to do science at the governments digression.

INSTEAD OF FREE PEOPLE DECIDING AT THEIR OWN WILL AND CREATING THOUSANDS OF RESEARCH FACILITIES


Fucking idiot.

You don't even know what you're talking about.

How can you believe in evolution and not believe in economics? Seriously think about that.

Anyways I'm wasted as fuck and going to masturbate to gay furry porn.

Enjoy capitalism. Because you're currently using it.

OP, what are your views on intellectual property?

>>1893719
Privatized science will never work? Well somebody better tell Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Nikolai Tesla, Lockheed, Martin, General Dynamics, IBM, Microsoft, Apple, BioTech, VersaLife, Boeing, Bell Labs, Xerox... do I have to name more?

>>1893714
>numerous citations needed
There is a difference between making a broad statement about a continent and it's general healthcare practices and me talking about my group of friends and our experiences with our socialized healthcare.
And the fact that 90% of Canada's healthcare companies left is less a fuckup on the government's part and more corporate assholeism. I'm quite sure that the Canadian government didn't make it difficult as fuck to get private health insurance.
>>1893710
>No, end welfare, make it a private thing.
>Let free humanity decide instead of gangsters.
...

>>1893717

Thanks for this post. Given the points I mentioned, at least I'm 100% sure now that you are trolling. Go on :)

>>1893721
>>He thinks they don't go back down dramatically and stay down like in every other free market, I.e computers.
No, they haven't and they won't. Last year alone unemployment rates for medical staff rose by 17 percent. You keep making these retarded claims that just aren't compatible with reality.
>Cartels that have to provide a service to humanity at a low price or they go out of business?
You don't even know what a cartel is do you?

>>1893731
>Nikolai Tesla
Last time I checked, he got fucked over when the guy found out the Wardencliffe tower's electricity couldn't be metered. Tesla's project was dismantled and most of his life destroyed.

>>1893708
By the the way before I leave when I said "themselves" I meant the private charities and people donating to them, not the veterans.

Relax gaybro inurdaes.


Anyways goodbye /sci/entists.

>>1893745
But who will donate?
I would love a system as what you're proposing... if it fucking worked.

>>1893742
That was one failed project out of a lifetime of success. He was just terrible with his money and had mental issues, the two situations may or may not have been related.

>>1893731
>>1893729
You niggers don't understand the importance of fundamental science. Just because people invent stuff and make money with it doesn't mean they'll do research with no immediate application. Just try to get privatized funds for something like the LHC, the blue brain project, mapping of the genome, black hole physics, pure math, space exploration etc. Dumb shits.

>>1893730
There should be no intellectual property because it goes against free market capitalism.

>>1893738
>baaawww the libertarian furry makes more sense than I do, his philosophy actually helps humanity and proved me wrong, he must be trolling


Sure is baawww in here.

>>1893748
Personally, I envision a world where meaningful research and massive projects can be undertaken without governments and corporations. And ANYONE can do it.

>>1893751
Your point to him was, and I quote:
SURE IS FULL RETARD in here.

>>1893749
The greatest man to have ever lived, Norman Borlaug, did privatized science. The reason he is the greatest man to have ever lived is because of that privatized science. I'm sure you have no clue who he is, but that's okay.

And if you don't think you can get funding for "fundamental science" from private sources, you've never even looked at what grants are out there, much less applied for one.

>>1893740
>Last year alone unemployment rates for medical staff rose by 17 percent. You keep making these retarded claims that just aren't compatible with reality.

>He actually thinks they won't find other work in other sectors of the economy
>He actually thinks other hospitals won't hire them

The market needs medical staff, the market will find something for them to do. This is the way it has worked throughout history. It is simply how this market system works.

>>1893749
>Just try to get privatized funds for something like the LHC, the blue brain project, mapping of the genome, black hole physics, pure math, space exploration etc. Dumb shits.

...uhm, most of those are either mostly privately funded, or ENTIRELY privately funded. The LHC was by CERN. Space Exploration is handled more and more by private contractors, et cetera. And space has always been mostly the domain of industry, they put the satellites up to charge people for their services, and they charge to put up scientific equipment built by universities funded by tuitions, that is if you don't count the governments paying private space industry.

You called us dumb shits, but you named mostly private projects.

>>1893763
I thought the LHC was funded by a bunch of nations in Europe? Their governments I mean.

>>1893759
>And if you don't think you can get funding for "fundamental science" from private sources, you've never even looked at what grants are out there, much less applied for one.
I actually have a Marie Curie funded grant you fucking idiot. There are NO privatized grants for my type of research (fundamental neuroscience, I do research on the attentional blink and hippocampal to medial frontal oscillation synchrony). There are two ways to get funds here, one is directly from the government, the second is via an intermediate institution called the NWO that receives money from the government. Not a single person in my department has EVER received private funds.

>>1893742
>Last time I checked, he got fucked over when the guy found out the Wardencliffe tower's electricity couldn't be metered. Tesla's project was dismantled and most of his life destroyed.

Wow okay, now you're just ignoring your sense of rationality to defend your point. 99.95 percent of everything technology related is due to free market captialism.

Or at least semi-free market capitalism.

>>1893766
Nope. You must be thinking of the fusion project, whatever it's called.

LHC is by CERN, a corporation. It is a multi-national corporation, but it's still private industry, not governments.

>>1893760
That doesn't negate the fact that over employment leads to the stripping of job conditions you faggot. MEDICAL STAFF ARE PROTESTING HERE YOU RETARD

>>1893770
>99.95 percent of everything technology related is due to free market captialism.
That extra .05% matters to me.
Also [citation needed]
>>1893772
Ah yes, might be ITER.

>>1893763
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN#Financing_.28Budget_2009.29
CERN gets funds from STATES you idiot. So does NASA and every University.

>>1893767
>I
>my type of research
>my department

>all fundamental research
I think you're making a bit of an attribution error.

And I really doubt there aren't at least some private neuroscience grants. Maybe not for what you're researching, but there've got to be some.

If I can research something more bullshit and not-fundamental-science than you and still find private grants, I think this says something.

>>1893782
You're right. Seeing a picture of a flag next to the dollar sign suddenly makes the fact it's a multi-national go away. Clearly it just became a government project, because people never use flasg for anything but government involvement.

Sarcasm does not transmit well over text, so let me just state overtly that I was being sarcastic.

>>1893788
>If I can research something more bullshit and not-fundamental-science than you and still find private grants, I think this says something.

It certainly says something, just not in favour of our argument.

>OP = fag
I has maked a abstract.

>>1893792
your*
Fuck typos.

>>1893788
>And I really doubt there aren't at least some private neuroscience grants. Maybe not for what you're researching, but there've got to be some.
Of course there are private neuroscience grants, but those are all centered around clinical applications. Deep brain stimulation projects get huge private funds. Just not the fundamental projects, which is exactly my point. If there's no application there's no private funding. Applied research with stagnate if no fundamental research is done. The reason those deep brain stimulation guys are able to bring it in practice is because of fundamental research on oscillation dynamics.

>>1893790
>The acronym CERN originally stood, in French, for Conseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire (European Council for Nuclear Research), which was a provisional council for setting up the laboratory, established by 11 European governments in 1952.
>governments

>>1893807
>originally

Reaching for a lot of straws, might build a whole man out of them, and it still has yet to refute the original point when hundred billion dollar industries that do engage in long term fundamental research were named.

>>1893814
Last I checked you completely ignored the blue brain project, pure math, black hole physics and NASA.
Also, how the fuck does CERN get money if not from government? Name one fucking private company that donated anything but technology for sponsorship purposes.

>>1893814
>originally
That refers to the acronym you retard.

>>1893801
>with stagnate
will stagnate*

>>1893814
>CERN also gets private funds
>HURRA WE DON'T NEED THOSE BILLIONS OF EURO'S FROM THE GOVERNMENT ANYMORE

>>1893814
>Thinks CERN isnt funded by governements

LMAO

>>1893820
How about you take my post, and somehow make the point of the many multi-hundred billion a year industries engaging in the type of research you wish only governments did, and make them go away.

Because your 12 billion and no more government funds sure did nothing to make me think the government had any interest in science.

>>1893842
Jesus fucking Christ that post is a cluster fuck of word bending. I never said I wish only governments should fund research, I said fundamental science CAN'T survive without government funds. You think CERN could survive without government funding? And NASA? You actually believe that? IF THEY COULD WHY THE FUCK ARE GOVERNMENTS SPENDING MONEY ON THEM?

>>1893842
This is taking too long. I'll take your lack of answer as conceding the argument and hereby claim victory. Fuck your shit.

It's so ironic that the most retarded trip fags always argue for the most retarded things. Boomer, tripfag, die in a fire.

>>1893842