/sci/ - Science & Math

Soyuz Family still doing load runs to the ISS.

Post-scarcity roboticized socialism = USS Enterprise

>>1860506
>socialism
>anything but shit

Socialism beats capitalism in prety much every way except making rich folks icher and poor people poorer.

But I know nothing about rockets.

>>1860516
LOLOLOL oh wow

>doesn't realize that star trek was a post-capitalist society.

Capitalism simply creates a post-scarcity society. Socialism is a cruel joke, a hoax.
\

They were mostly a FREE society, dumbshit.

Socialism spreads risk for universal healthcare.
Socialism spreads the financial risk in space travel.

When was the last time a stock holder invested in Apollo 11 or Sputnik?

Risk = Billionaires don't want

>>1860526
>HHUUURURRRRR I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ECONOMICS AND I'M A SLAVE TO STATIST PROPAGANDA FROM MICHAEL MOORE MOVIES


Sure is absolutely fucking retarded in here.

>>1860523
>Error elimination: Market unfeasibility
Y'know this is a really big fucking problem for science/research?

>>1860529
Many of the practices shown in Star Trek can be matched fairly closely to a form of libertarian socialism.
Also I'm not saying capitalism is bad, just flawed.

>>1860532
>implying capitalists wouldn't invest in space travel
If they're make a return off of it they will invest in it dumbfuck.


Isn't raising the cost of medicine in the USA enough cruelty? What about all the poor people that don't have jobs and need medical attention and can't get it due to policies YOU'VE enacted. Fuck you.

You're done enough damage socialists time for logic to take over.

>>1860537
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

You're not to fucking smart aren't you?


WHEN THE FUCK HAS SOCIALISM EVER WORKED


WHEN THE FUCK HAS SOCIALISM CREATED MASSIVE ABUNDANCES OF FOOD FOR THE MASSES

WHEN THE FUCK HAS SOCIALISM CREATED MASSIVE INNOVATION AND HUMAN CREATIVITY?

Diverting from capitalism in any way is sickeningly immoral.

You people deserve to be killed for what you've done to people. Irrational fucks.

>>1860538
>HUR DUR
>ECONOMICS IS REAL SCIENCE GUIZE

1.The Japan Medical System of govt universal insurance and privatized hospital mix markets
2.World

9001. Anarcho Capitalism medicine for backwards countries.

>>1860537
>libertarian
>socialism

LOL no.

Socialism by definition is slavery.

You're just brainwashed and stupid. You're pretty much a creationist when economics are concerned. Kindly shut your face.

Libertarianism will win in the end.

Capitalism = God tier

>>1860544
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension

>>1860544
Do you plan to drive on the US FEDERAL HIGHWAY or get Electricity from things like the HOOVER DAM that was first built with govt subsides?

>>1860548
>THE UNITED STATES IS A FREE MARKET IN HEALTH CARE I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE UNITED STATES IS A FREE MARKET IN HEALTH CARE I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE UNITED STATES IS A FREE MARKET IN HEALTH CARE I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE UNITED STATES IS A FREE MARKET IN HEALTH CARE I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE UNITED STATES IS A FREE MARKET IN HEALTH CARE I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
>THE UNITED STATES IS A FREE MARKET IN HEALTH CARE I LITERALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THIS
AAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

Fucking please. Just stop posting you're a gigantic fucking embarrassment.

>Create massive government controls for the past 80 years that raise prices dramatically and give loads of money to the health insurance companies
>BLAME CAPITALISM

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

>>1860544
Nope.jpeg

Obvious troll is obvious

>>1860548
>I LITERALLY DON'T BELIEVE IN ECONOMICS


LOL then I guess it's true.

Leftists are creationists.

>>1860549
>Socialism by definition is slavery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
FYI, I'm in full support of a free market capitalist system. Specifically the Nordic model. But in the relatively near future we may have the technology to provide a far higher standard of life with a form of post-scarcity socialism.

Of course, there's very little difference between a post scarcity capitalist or socialist system.

>>1860554
ENJOYING YOUR FUCKING COMPUTER?

ENJOYING YOUR INTERNET ACCESS?

ENJOYING YOUR HOUSE?

ENJOYING YOUR FOOD?

ENJOYING YOUR CLOTHING?

ENJOYING YOUR FUCKING MEDICINE?

ENJOYING YOUR TECHNOLOGY?

ENJOYING YOUR HIGH STANDARD OF LIVING?

Thank a capitalist!!!


AAAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

>>1860558
>literally asspained at the truth

God I lol'd.

>>1860550
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Butthurt

Hmm the facts seem the hurt him.

>>1860557
>Create massive government controls
>Forcing people to buy private health insurance
That's called Anarcho capitalism. Any thing goes to create a pure capitalist system including congressional paid lobbying.

Meanwhile : Socialist system replacing insurance middleman and 100 cents to the dollar go to health care procedure.

Now try a rebuttal?

>>1860562
Capitalism did not create the internet, a whole bunch of college-educated nerds did. With their brains.
I'd imagine it would be difficult to create penicillin with your chequebook.

>>1860562
>>1860559
>>1860557
>>1860544

>Downs and Asbergers

Currently

># of US spaceships : 0
># of Soyuz spaceships : Enough to take up all ISS travel

>>1860560
AAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Oh my fucking god.

This is just too fucking hilarious.

Please keep talking. I can't stop lolling.

Capitalism is what fucking BROUGHT us here.

Capitalism is what would have BROUGHT us to post-scarcity due to automation, abundances of private charities, massive innovation(that only capitalism can create)

and you want to simply call post-scarcity capitalism, post-scarcity socialism simply because you're asspained at capitalism's accomplishments?


LOLOL You can't change the facts bro.

Post-scarcity socialism doesn't make any logical sense. It doesn't make any economic sense.

You're retarded.

Also the only reason the nordic model is so successful is because of capitalism and market reforms in the 1990s.

It's funny how even political arguments can be reduced to green text, implications, and reaction images.

Besides, technocracy is where it's at.

>>1860566
>he has no fucking idea what he's talking about
>the medical industry is the highest regulated and controlled market in the history of mankind and he literally thinks it's a free market(lol)
>people actually BUY health insurance and he doesn't even understand why this happens
>the cost of health care has been rising dramatically for this past century, while the price of consumer goods in ALL other industries including COMPUTERS and CLOTHING have been steadily declining, while their quality has been increasing and he sees nothing wrong with this.


I love being a libertarian because it's so fun to destroy leftist arguments. It's so easy too.

It's like arguing with a creationist.

>>1860574
What part of "I support free market capitalism" do you not understand? Capitalism is the best system we have to create incentive, distribution etc. But I'm not about to start praying to it and telling everyone THE FREE MARKET WILL FIX IT, because face it, it's not perfect.
>Post-scarcity socialism doesn't make any logical sense. It doesn't make any economic sense.
Post-scarcity ITSELF doesn't make any economic sense.

I'm going to bite and say that there is no reason why socialism and capitalism can work together. While you hurrdurr at that, take a second to consider the EPA, FDA, DMV, DOT, and there are obviously others. By no means are they a symbol of 100% efficiency or success, but the capitalist market would NOT self-regulate. Don't agree? Look up how hard it is for corporations to adhere to the rules and regulations already in practice.

If you think socialism is such a giant failure, do not enroll your children in public school, don't use the internet, don't enjoy modern medicine (gov't grants and subsidies),don't use a library, don't drive a car, don't use city resources, don't collect social security, don't go to a state park, don't buy any groceries (gov't subsidies, yep), and do yourself a favor and just don't breathe.

>>1860567
>ignore everything else
>thinks we pay the government to use the internet instead of ISPs.

What gave them the ability to do that in the first place? Their freed up capital.

Things like linux are capitalist creations.

>>1860584

meant to say that socialism and capitalism CAN work together. They both can be incorporated, successfully.

>>1860571
Number of people killed in soviet russia:

At least 25 million.

Number of people saved from starvation in capitalist america: At least 25 million.


Where does innovation and technology come from: Capitalist countries

Technocrats/Transhuman > Socialists > Tree Stump > Druid Witches > Conservatives

>>1860585
>Things like linux are capitalist creations.
Oh this'll be fun to hear.

>>1860579
No.

Let's not ignore science and philosophy and let a bunch of robot overlords rule us.

and I know you people would be stupid enough to let that happen.

Define capitalism, in between and socialism. Also what kind of space travel?

>>1860588
US got into space orbit first?

US High School History is worst than I thought. . .

>>1860582
>doesn't understand economics
From an austrian perspective post-scarcity makes perfect economic sense.

>>1860592
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy
>Technocracy is a form of government in which engineers, scientists, health professionals and other technical experts are in control of decision making in their respective fields. The term technocracy derives from the Greek words tekhne meaning skill and kratos meaning power, as in government, or rule. Thus the term technocracy denotes a system of government where those who have knowledge, expertise or skills compose the governing body. In a technocracy decision makers would be selected based upon how highly knowledgeable they are, rather than how much political capital they hold.

I.E not robots.

>>1860584
THE FDA KILLS PEOPLE YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER

I should be allowed to test any drug I want on myself, especially if I'm fucking DYING.

I swear to god liberals are fucking fascists.

>>1860590
Libertarian Transhumanist reporting in.

>>1860595
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
>At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1 mile contains more than $20 trillion US dollars worth of industrial and precious metals.[

The immediate knee-jerk response I get from most free market worshippers is OH NO THEN THE VALUE GOES DOWN NOBODY WILL DO THAT

I would love to hear how you would manage a situation like this.

>>1860591
AAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA the silly fascist thinks something we capitalists made was made by him


WAS LINUX CREATED BY A BUNCH OF NERDS IN THEIR SPARE TIME(spare time which was created by capitalism) USING THEIR OWN CAPITAL TO CREATE THIS AWESOME THING

Giving something away for free that requires no physical labor to produce is purely a capitalist concept. There was no government forcing people to do it or they would be punished. They were free people.
Copyright laws in and of themselves go against capitalism.

Listen you piece of shit. You don't own people. I know you think you do, but you don't.

God I'm so drunk.

But I'm right and you still can't argue with a drunk libertarian.

Fancy that. :3

>>1860544
>WHEN THE FUCK HAS SOCIALISM EVER WORKED
E.U.

>WHEN THE FUCK HAS SOCIALISM CREATED MASSIVE ABUNDANCES OF FOOD FOR THE MASSES
E.U.

>WHEN THE FUCK HAS SOCIALISM CREATED MASSIVE INNOVATION AND HUMAN CREATIVITY?
USSR (Space Travel, Filmography, etc.)

>>1860549
Libertarian Socialism is an actual thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Libertarian_socialism
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/lsp/frames.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_National_Socialist_Green_Party
http://struggle.ws/anarchism/faq/secI8.html

>>1860602
So why hasn't anyone set up a company yet? It should be an easy sell.

I'd be conservative, but I like driving on the highway...

:(

>>1860598
I consider myself liberal, and I agree. I don't think people should be paid to go on medical trials, though.

>>1860602
>>1860532
This.

Milton fags cannot into logistical reality of space travel.

>>1860597
Yes, and that's still so fucking horrible and stupid I don't know where to begin.

I frankly can't believe how evil and sick liberals are.

>hurrdurrr freedom is bad

You can't co-ordinate the actions of every single human being. That is unbelievably retarded.

It's best to let this complex system run itself. In the end it would be more technologically advanced, free and moral.

>>1860594
Where does innovation and technology come from?

Capitalist countries.

Capitalism has risen the average life expectancy by about 30 years.

This is an objective fact.

>Private Space Companies
>Still behind 1940s German Space Agencies

Mir and ISS here.

Corporate Space Hotels u say?

LOL

HEY GUYS LETS INFLATE THE CURRENCY MASSIVELY, WHICH FUCKS OVER POOR PEOPLE AND BLAME IT ON CAPITALISM

SURE SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN

tl;dr

Leftists are tools that don't understand complex systems.

>itt people that think capitalism exists outside of simple ideology

There's only two ways you can legitimately practice capitalism: Democracy, Fascism.

>>1860620
>>1860612
goto bed Glenn

>>1860605
>THE E.U. WHICH HAS DRAMATICALLY LOWERED THE STANDARD OF LIVING FOR ALL OF EUROPE

LOL GO LIVE IN GREECE AND FRANCE YOU FUCKING FAGGOT

>CLAIMING THE MASSIVE SUCCESSES OF CAPITALISM WERE DO TO SOCIALISM

Yes people leftists are dishonest liars and scumbags.

LOL GO LIVE IN GREECE YOU GIGANTIC FUCKING RETARD
YOU FUCKING IDIOTS DON'T UNDERSTAND ECONOMICS

YOU'RE BASICALLY FUCKING CREATIONISTS


Libertarian socialism is any oxymoron.

Libertarian socialists advocate slavery. Yes. This is what they advocate.

Just fucking die already you scumbags.

If Glenn Beck and Mormonism ruled America...

We might be starting to develop Vacuum Tube technology in 2010!

:D

>>1860619
>tax levels at 50-60%

>fuck over free people and free markets
>enslave the population

>build shitty rockets inefficiently with a waste of resources


lol god liberals are such failures

Sure is leftists of all kind getting


>libertarian
>socialism

Lol you creationists will come up with anything.

>>1860630
Canada here.

Hows that anarcho capitalism workin for ya?

>>1860629
>ANYONE THAT DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME IS A RACIST AND WATCHES FOX NEWS AND GLENN BECK
LOL ENJOY HYPERINFLATION LEFTISTS

BE SURE TO BLAME IT ON CAPITALISM, YOU'RE ONLY ENSLAVING YOURSELF FURTHER

and before you whine about this, I'm poor as fuck and lazy. But I live in a city with a great capitalist economy and can get a job in a second.

THE FREE MARKET WORKS BECAUSE POOR PEOPLE DESERVE TO BE POOR BECAUSE THEIR ALL LAZY AND DON'T WORK AND ARE POOR SO THEY SHOULD BE POOR

>>1860602
>OH NO THEN THE VALUE GOES DOWN NOBODY WILL DO THAT

LOL

Is it WORTH anything, or not? Yes it is. People will still go for it you fucking dumbshit.

Why do you hate freedom and the poor so much? Why do you hate science?

You may not know it, you're probably blind. But this is what you advocate. Anyone that advocates "libertarian socialism"(I can't stop lolling at how funny that is) or "anarcho-communism", or any other sickening leftist ideologies is advocating slavery.

This is objective reality. Sorry.

LOL are you still there or did you leave in a massive display of butthurt? Is the blood dripping from your anus?

LOL

FREE MARKET WILL SOLVE SPACE TRAVEL ...

EVEN THOUGH PROFIT ISNT APPLICABLE AND THE ONLY OBJECTIVES ARE SCIENCE BASED

...SO uhh YEAH FREE MARKET ROBBLE ROBBLE

>>1860634
Canadian here.

Sure is an awesome capitalism economy here in edmonton where a lazy fuck can get any shit job he wants.

FUCKING LOL'D

>calls the USA anarcho-capitalist
LOLOL

>LITERALLY DOESN'T REALIZE THAT OVERALL CANADA IS MORE ECONOMICALLY FREE THAN THE UNITED STATES

>Hows that anarcho capitalism workin for ya?
Quite well fellow canuck. You should be proud.

>>1860626
First human-made satellite into space:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik

First man into space:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin

First Venus and Comet probes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega_program

First Mars probe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_probe_program

As for art:
Strutgatsky brothers, Andrei Tarkovsky, Boris Barnet, Sergei Paradjanov, Alexander Dovzhenko, the Oberiu movement that included Nikolay Zabolotsky, Alexander Vvedensky, Konstantin Vaginov and Daniil Kharms, Maxim Gorky, Mikhail Sholokhov, Aleksey Nikolayevich Tolstoy, Konstantin Simonov, Aleksandr Tvardovsky, Boris Pasternak, Vyacheslav Ivanov, Georgy Ivanov,Vladislav Khodasevich, and various other European artists (Robert Bresson, Ingmar Bergman, Luis Buñuel) Americans would know if they had at least a little intelligence.

>>1860642
FACT: Capitalism has helped the poor more than anything in the world. Wherever there is more capitalism the poorest of the world have had their standard of living raised.
>STILL BELIEVES CAPITALISM KILLS POOR PEOPLE AFTER HEARING THIS

AHAHAHAHAHA


LOL dumb fuck

Sure is leftists of all kind getting fucking annihilated by facts and logic about complex systems in here.

Reductionism and logic FTW!!!!


>libertarian
>socialism

Lol you creationists will come up with anything.

Shostakovitch here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogJFXqYEYd8

How's America's mainstream corporate music treating America's souls?

Justin Bieber should be shot with a Mosin.

Seriously people.

Socialism is like fucking religion. They don't understand how anything works and just want to implement their "god"(government) to rule everything.

They literally believe this one thing will fix everything and make everything perfect.

They ignore everything about science, logic and economics.

It's hilarious and yet sad at the same time.


Just for a moment, think of how far advanced of a society we would be if we left human beings alone to run their own lives, if we left the market alone.

Think of all the poor people being lifted out of poverty, the powerful innovation, zero drug violence because it would be legal, think oh how stable the banking industry would be(inb4 some keynesian social engineer calls me a troll), imagine no federal reserve, imagine our children being taught in superior private schools.

Fuck....
/thread

>>1860667
>Capitalism
>belief about an invisible hand
>not religion

At least passed attempts at socialism were all atheist/non-religious.

>>1860667
>US Currency and monetary system
>In God We Trust
>Full blown capitalism not religion

You are a troll huh?

Socialism is based off of curbing inherent risk in programs intended for citizens.

So stop your troll posts.

>>1860667
>claim the other party is religious
>go on about how the inherent goodness of human nature will create a paradise on earth

Uh, yeah...

Okay, here's how I'd do things.
Public services to provide commodities for the people fairly. This includes access to roads, public parks, beaches, reserves and, if I were in control, food and water. No people have elevated rights to these. There are restrictions on commercial property by beaches, so they remain nice like in NZ, and not horrible like the UK.

Healthcare works on a government funded medical savings account. This leaves room for a free market medical system whilst ensuring that people get basic treatment.

If able-bodied people are unemployed, they are offered community service jobs in exchange for living arrangements.

Education is free to all, but private institutions are encouraged. The standards are rigorous. There is no passing or failing, but merely ranking in different subjects.

Most tax is income tax, rather than GST. Business is also taxed for any use of public resources, and rewarded for technological innovation.

Finally, the government gets most money from operating a bank, providing fair loans and savings accounts to the people, but still making plenty of money.

Read some Freud and then see how fucking great your socialism would work.

Shouting that free markets are everything is equally fucking stupid, given the many market imperfections such as stupidly high transaction costs.

Just take the best of both worlds: Let people compete, but intervene if things go wrong.

>>1860663

That's a good point but liberal hipsters are the first to scoff if someone likes something like Appalachian folk music or bluegrass

>>1860700
>Redneck
>Music

Wat

American music (Rock, R&B, & Country) is originated from African American 1900s blues.

Classical music was inspired in Europe and Russia. etc

>>1860653
>>1860647
>>1860643
>>1860636
Are all libertarians or whatever they call themselves this annoying and this stupid

>>1860756
Be obnoxiously loud about how true your arbitrary claims are.

Win internet arguments.

How libertarianism works.

>>1860529
Hi there bro.

>>1860774
Well the guy spamming was drunk, why are you surprised? Find any drunk guy of any ideology, see how rational they'll be.

He was correct in that the USA isn't a free market economic society, and hasn't been for awhile. We have taxes that go for war and welfare spending, we have corporations lobbying the government to stifle competition, and we have career politicians everywhere.

A large government can't work with a free market, only limited government can. One that only provides the basic needs of government, defense, and upholding the law.

I would of course accept taxes for extra space programs, but right now NASA is only funded by 0.5-1% of our taxes. The rest of for politicians, war, and dependency welfare for leeches.

>>1860804
This.

>>1860774
This, unfortunately.

>>1860810
I work hard for my life, and then give a percentage of my hard work to the government to waste on retarded shit.

Shit sucks...

>>1860815
>skip the post afterwards explaining why
>post troll picture
>profit

>>1860820
Right now I'm blitzed out of my mind and at least I can contain myself.

>>1860831
Different people react differently.
Also Inurdaes, do you have an MSN or such? Up for a conversation?

>>1860832
Why yes I do, but I'm sure that if I post it that people will find my contact details. Gimme yours and I'll add it?

>>1860837
destrita@live

>Libertarian Paradise
>Somalia and Africa
>Never has into space

>>1860506
This is my new wallpaper...

Fucking NASA thrusters I am disappoint.

These Soviet era thrusters still are more efficient I heard.

Wow when did /sci/ became /new/-lite?

>>1860848
>He thinks Africa is more capitalist than America
>He thinks Somalia is anarcho-capitalist
>He thinks that even so, Somalia isn't better of without their state.

>>1860848
Somalia was previous a socialist state, which fell into two governments. It has a bureaucratic system, no economic freedom, or personal freedoms.

It is the ANTITHESIS to libertarianism.

>>1860881
/sci/ is full of pseudo-intellectual high schoolers who can't figure out how to socialize with their peers properly and often have to delude themselves with assumptions of that they are of higher intelligence, so they can have something to associate themselves from the rest of their peers and hold it to a higher caliber so they can assume and assert that they are more of an elite than everyone else they laid eyes open (sorry for run on sentence). It's pretty much /new/ all the time, you just have to poke it out time-to-time.

>>1860905
Somalia has a free market though, the companies and corporations run themselves and the areas around them. It's pretty much the ideal libertarian model in practice.

>>1860905
There are no governments in Somalia currently, thus no bureaucratic system (or any system) in place. But it has both economic freedom since piracy and black market trades run abundant unchecked and untampered, and personal freedoms are only guaranteed depending on how much you can survive on your own and how much you can fight back to anyone wanting to take advantage of you.

I thought Chicago school died with Friedman?

Libertarian butthurt ITT made me cum

>>1860516
Let's start a Technocracy.

Guys last time I checked Socialism was a capitalist economy and a free society (Private property, individual freedom, free enterprise) but the gov'ment keeps tabs on the corporations to prevent predatory monopolies.

Or maybe that's not the real socialism but a slightly modded version of that used by a few countries.

OFF BLAST MOFO

I have no face for when idiot libertarians yell and scream to the point that they think anything other than their ideas will lead to slavery and death. Meanwhile factories in China employ slave labor and dump tons of smog into the air because it's what the free market demands.

and before anyone refutes me I'll greentext.

>Claim Libertarianism and a free market is the greatest idea ever
>Opponent cites child labor and coal dust around the turn of the last century or another valid criticism
>Claim it wasn't the real deal and the liberals/commies/socialists were behind it

FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>1862446

i'm one of the idiot libertarians you are talking about

i don't think libertarianism is necessarily good for the entire world, just for my country. what china wants to do and how they do it is not my problem, they are a big black box that takes money and generates goods as far as i'm concerned. if they don't like the conditions then they should do something about it, not me, because not my job to go telling the world how to run itself.

>>1862490
Good thing our allies in the Revolutionary and Civil Wars did not share your opinion.

>>1862490
Confederates were economic libertarians.

I MUST HAVE THE FREEDOM TO OWN SLAVES

If you CRANK UP economic libertarianism to the max it is tyranny of corporations.

And I doubt civilization would be enlighten enough to undertake man/unmanned space flight.

I'm a die-hard capitalist in all areas except for space. America should rape its people in taxes so it can build a giant-ass moon base big enough to see from earth.

>>1862466
NASA confirmed for beta male.

>>1862497
>Good thing our allies in the Revolutionary and Civil Wars did not share your opinion.

why? because the current state of the world is so awesome that we should be glad the past happened JUST SO?

the truth is that theres no way to know how alternate scenarios would have played out, and the winners write history so of course it would seem that the "good" side always wins.

>>1860506
actually the best government is a communist government which is truly ruled by the people. It's sad that these two beautiful concepts are so hideously unnattained

>>1860529
>doesn't realize that socialism != communism != stalinism.
It's an economic system, not a political one.

>>1862490
Well you're not an idiot if you accept that different things work better for different people/places. However, in this age of globalism, American companies are pressuring the Chinese not to concede to worker's demands when they've had enough of being treated like a slave. This sort of overreaching power multinationals have is why a "free" market won't stay that way. Whether its a rival or government, something is going to try and slant the playing field, so I'd rather it be something that at least is supposed to answer to the will of the people.

But Milton said economics was science...

>economics discussion on /sci/.

pic related

also,

>post-scarcity

lol

>>>/new/
Seriously, GTFO mah /sci/

>>1860533

According to that chart ex-Soviet countries got poorer after capitalism was installed.

>>1860562
The definition of a capitalist is one who deals solely with capital, i.e. a stock broker.

>>1862711

they definitely did, because the IMF came in and said "hey guys now that that whole communism thing is over you should totally privatize everything."

tl;dr version: there was absolutely NO infrastructure to accommodate this (legal, property protection, investment security, etc.), a few got rich at the expense of all (e.g. russian oil oligarchs), and everybody in these states now has a totally jaded perspective of free markets.

meanwhile, countries like poland and china that didn't pay attention to the assholes at the IMF have experienced economic growth and a definite increase in the standard of living over time.

lesson learned: you can't rush the free market.

>>1860626
WTF has Greece gotta do with socialism faggot?

Our current wreck is due to generic goverment corruption and the middle class systematically avoiding taxation.

It was libertarianism in action that absorbed the shit out of us.

But ofc I'm not going to change your mind. You have a solid opinion fed on whatever arbitrary bullshit in the interbutts fits your pre-conceived world-view moron.

>>1860562
>ENJOYING YOUR INTERNET ACCESS?
>Thank a capitalist!!!

>Implying DARPA is a capitalist institution.

>>1862764
He was a troll.

Nobody who believes Glen Beck and becomes a zombie really lurks in /sci/.

>>1860580
>the medical industry is the highest regulated and controlled market in the history of mankind and he literally thinks it's a free market(lol)
Do you mind naming a few regulations? I'm not trying to disprove you, but a simple "regulations on healthcare in the US" query isn't cutting it on Google.
>people actually BUY health insurance and he doesn't even understand why this happens
Some people can't afford health care. Why don't you understand that?
>the cost of health care has been rising dramatically for this past century, while the price of consumer goods in ALL other industries including COMPUTERS and CLOTHING have been steadily declining, while their quality has been increasing and he sees nothing wrong with this.
Please, for the love of god, tie this into the rest of your argument.

And all of you faggots complaining about the HCR bill can shove it. It was the fucking Republicans that beat the shit out of anything that would have actually changed America and set up (brilliantly, I might add) a very good strawman about Obama not wanting to have transparency.

Before you start complaining about fucking welfare, though, take a look at the goddamn defense budget. Wasn't it the Pentagon that was buying $20,000 minifridges from a private contractor? Why are we pouring a quarter of our budget into war?

http://costofwar.com/

Technocracy.
Because socialism and capitalism isn't focused on science or technology. Socialism is focused on everyone having a slice of the rich man's pie. And capitalism is focused on the rich man having another pie.

>>1862777
Right on about the iceboxes.

http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/insane-government-spending/article32983..
html

The government doesn't give a shit about you, or me, or the troops.

>>1862788
Samefag here, sorry.

Anyway, that's why we need to go toward a system where the corporations can't buy the government, whatever that may be. I have a feeling it's not anarcho-capitalism, though.

>>1862782
would not work because neither the powerful nore the many give a fuck about science

>>1862791
And you see why I hate this species.

MAGNA CARTA..

>>1862882
Another piece of toilet paper. How many ply does it come in?

>>1862882
Hawaiians beat Europeans to the punch.
Hawaiiians had far better grasp of ocean navi.
Hawaiians could retreat after a 3000 mile voyage.. back to their home island if they found nothing because they could fish on the run and had REAL preserved food.

(Polynesians = Hawaiians FYI)


>Hawaiians were communal farmers.

>>1862944
>Hawaiians beat Europeans to the punch
Dear god, I lol'd, and now I feel bad for lolling.

>>1862899