/sci/ - Science & Math

Fascinating stuff, isn't it? If we can possibly develop the ship needed to reach this planet, this opens a whole load of possibilities for colonizing other Earth-like planets in the galaxy.

News to me, how did they discover it anyway if it's 20 fucking light years away?

Don't tell me telescopes can really see that far.

I hope we can communicate with some aliens in my lifetime, but I am not too optimistic ;-;

I doubt there's life there.

No way in hell there's sentient, technologically capable life there. The chance of that happening within 20ly of us is insanely low.

who the fuck are sending sad frogs to space

There is probably plant life, maybe even animal life. but no sentient technologically advanced life on this planet....why..because one side constantly faces the sun and the other constantly faces away.

>>1845418

How can you say there's "probably" plant life?!

Jesus. You're just as bad as the "100% chance of life" guys.

>>1845406
Oh c'mon, even Steven Hawking thinks there is intelligent life there (due to the fact that it's practically Earth but bigger). I'm sure Carl Sagan would agree if he was still alive.

>>1845423

Stephen Hawking also recently said that we shouldn't contact aliens because they'll blow us up. He's losing it man.

Also while a few fringe scientists may say it's true, the fact is the chances are not good at all.

>>1845422

mmk.

>>1845431
>Stephen Hawking also recently said that we shouldn't contact aliens because they'll blow us up. He's losing it man.
Wait, who's to say he's wrong about this? If there are Aliens don't you think they would defend themselves if some potential invasion force tried to colonize their planet?

>>1845431
The last scientific presentation he gave was truly embarrassing. He truly is losing it. It doesn't matter what he or anyone else says. We have 0 reason to assign any probability of plant, animal, or intelligent life. We don't know the parameters for any of those things. We have one fucking data point. We know nothing. People can't handle being ignorant so they make shit up.

>>1845431
Actually he said if it happens that there is life out there with the capabilities to build the technology to get here, chances will be that the alien will try to conquer us. He is basing this off the history of the only species we know of that could build tech like this in the near-future.

>>1845445

He's wrong about it because there is LITERALLY no evidence either way.

Aliens could literally be anything, way more than our imagination could come up with.

There's just as much chance of them being a bunch of pasifists as a bunch of war mongering grey heads.

It's ALL speculation, and there is NO evidence for life on this planet in question. Stay realistic people.

>>1845454

True dat.

>>1845368

NASA should send AI to gliese and beyond to look for life. it will never die and will repair itself and the ship if needed.
on the way the AI will figure out the practical technology for men to visit these places

>>1845465
That would take 130,000 years.

>>1845465

Good luck making an AI with imagination. Nobody knows how the fuck to do that yet. Artificial creativity is for the moment beyond us.

>>1845470

With CURRENT technology. If anyone with any real money cared enough about this, they could have it down to under 50 within a few decades. The fact is that it's not so important right now.

It does feel bad man.

However, I've always thought Stephen Hawkings had more authority in theoretical physics not astrobiology.

>>1845458
There's always that risk though, right?

The LHC had a really small chance of creating a black hole that would eat up the Earth. But the risk was still there.

I hope we never reach anyone else. We should keep our cancerous species to one doomed planet.

>>1845368
>>1845401
>>1845404
>>1845414
>>1845478
http://www.hplusmagazine.com/articles/forever-young/manhattan-beach-project-end-aging-2029

>>1845507
If we get rid of aging then the world would become overpopulated.

Unless it costs a fucking lot to get some anti-aging serum.

>>1845487
oh, man, not real chance. everyone say: MONSTER BLACK HOLE POWERFUL AMAZING POKEMON WILL DESTROY EVERYTHING IN COSMOS WITH THE EVIL BOTTLENECK. hazardous black holes are really far away from us.

>>1845507
Fuck off tripfag. Stop polluting every threat with your immortaltard bullshit.

>>1845516
so many people blame the size of the earth rather than the way the people on it make use of the resources they have.

the entirety of the world's population can fit within the state of texas. it's not a matter of resources. it's not a matter of space. it has never been. humans are, in general, incredibly selfish and disorganized, which leads the future to all of the problems of today such the famine and spread of curable diseases we see in Africa.

>>1845397

interstellar light. how does it work.

>>1845534
but, if you really want to point the finger, blame china.

imagine at 10,000 BC that the entire world's population, totaled, was about 1 inch in width.

today, the entire world's population is about 6 inches.

China is responsible for 4 of those inches.

>>1845542
actually, make that 1 inch about .35 inches

>>1845542
so you're saying China has 2/3's of the world population?

>>1845542
what is this "inch" you speak of?

>>1845554
no, i was talking about growth

dont be stupid/troll plz

>>1845569
Well, you are god awful at analogies then.

>>1845554
in 5 centuries, china will consist of 2/3rds the world's population though.

>>1845577
>blame other people for your own mistakes

reminds me of when i was a freshman in high school

>>1845547

so the worlds population has only multiplied by 17
since 10,000 BC? i had no idea you knew how to pull statistics and analogies out of your ass so well.

>>1845600
Like this guy said which reiterates my point, terrible at analogies.

>>1845584

>imagine at 10,000 BC that the entire world's population, totaled, was about 1 inch in width.
>the entire world's population, totaled
>totaled

>no, i was talking about growth

>>1845368

>mfw possibly intelligent humanoids

OP you faggot ignore science fiction aliens more likely than not be human shape.

yeah, but we wouldn't be able to survive on it anyway, taking into account the 5-6 times enhanced gravitational pull of the planet itself. Unless ofc, those humanitarians finally approve genetic manipulation in which case we would be no longer fully human.

Visiting Gliese 581c may be out of the question for the foreseeable future, but 20 light years is fine for radio communication. We need to build a high-power radio transmitter with a highly directional antenna and start sending a signal, then build a sensitive receiver with a highly directional antenna and listen for a response.

If there's technologically advanced life there, we could get a response within our lifetimes. If they have developed near light speed travel, we could even get a visit (OTOH, if they have developed near light speed travel, I'd expect that they already know about us).

>>1845711

if they're in line-of-sight space, and they have radio recievers, then they've been recieving our radio waves for the past 50 years or so (assuming we started broadcasting in the 30s and it takes 20 years to get there).

I don't think we have to build anything new.

>>1845711
NOO YOU MORONS YOU WILL GIVE AWAY OUR POSTIONS!!!! SILENCE IS THE BEST!!!

,but seriously though we can't assume they will be benevolent.

>There are possibly intelligent humanoids living 20.5 light years from us

>Life of anykind automatically means that some will turn out to be humanoids.

>>1845729

a little late, oh frantic one...

"they're here..."

>>1845734
/x/ is that way---->

I hate it when people talk about "omg what happens to humanity when the sun explodes?!?!"

That's billions of years from now. Homo sapiens, as a species, hasn't even been around for one million. By the time the sun even comes close to obliterating our planet, we will have evolved into something else entirely, if we still exist at all.

>What if the water there is not the right kind of water we need to survive
Goddamnit /sci/, why the FUCK haven't you ripped on OP for this yet?

>>1845729

'they will kill the males of our species and eat our brains, and copulate freely with the nubile and desirable females of our species. meanwhile, on mars...'

>>1845621
Indeed. Personally I'd be very disappointed if aliens turned out to be humanoid. That's not interesting at all. So it's a good thing that it's not very likely.

Gliese 581 C is technically in the habitable zone, but it is relatively close to the star... just barely in the zone. Gliese 581 d, however, is smack dab in the zone, about 1.2x the size of the earth, and probably has an atmosphere. 581 d is the one to listen out for

>>1845746
wtf are you talking about?
we're not talking about sol going nova.
we're talking about brain sucking aliens on our very doorsteps.
yur not real bright, are ya?

>>1845368
>Humanoids
Must feel good that all aliens look like us huh OP?

>>1845776
I'd rage if this were true, it would mean the universe wasn't so bleak and had a plan of some sort in evolution. I LIKE a bleak universe. I LOVE terrifying religious folks with reality. Don't take this away from me.

>>1845750

Because no one who's knowledgable enough to catch on that would be able to read that far.

>>1845776
I'd love some humanoid aliens thrown in the mix. Because hot alien chicks.

>>1845865
What?

>>1845871
That would surely think you were a dick, and eat you.

>>1845874

Because no one who's knowledgable enough to catch on that would be able to read that far.

>>1845885
Something must be wrong with my brain, I simply cannot comprehend why you are saying that.

>>1845892

No one who's knowledgeable enough to know that "not the right kind of water" doesn't make sense would be able to read up to this sentence without raging at something else.

>>1845913
I must be having a stroke, I really can't understand you. lol BRB calling 911

The ability to feasibly traverse across the galaxy probably does not exist. If it did, the entire galaxy would have already been colonized by a handful of alien races who figured out how to do so already. If that has happened, why don't we observe any signs of it?

well maybe they haven't developed because the intense gravity would hinder technologikal advances?

>>1845931

Even if there was, there are still hundreds of billions of planets, and we can only observe a few lightyears in any direction.

>>1845931
>implying they aren't hiding everyone else.

>>1845931
They may simply not care to, imagine the ability to sleep forever, live in a euphoric world of fantasia, where everything bends to your will? A virtual reality if you will, would be far more interesting then exploring the universe. Specially one that connected every living creature together. The collective imagination would be incredible. I.E Universe of dreamers. Which may be us eventually.

>>1845931

Well, the possibility that there IS a way and that we happen to be the first ones to get it is also very interresting. In billions of years, the maggots from other planets will uncover the remnants of our fallen civilization's technology and marvel and call us the Ancients or some shit like that.

But, of course, that there is no way is more likely.

>>1845960

That there is no way is impossible.

Anything is possible under our current understanding of Physics, simply because we do not completely comprehend the universe.

>>1845960

How the fuck will ANY technology last billions of years?!

>>1845977
seconded, no material I know of is that stable.

>>1845977
>>1845990
>implying we can fathom the technology of our post-human god descendants

>>1845994
>implying that we won't kill ourselves in the near future before that happens.

>>1845994

You miss the point.

After billions of years entropy will take hold.

>>1846002
Damn, only a billion? That can't be right, I thought it was something like a trillion.

>>1846001
>implying we won'

feels bad man.

>>1845718
actually SETI proved that our radiation actually peeters out a lot closer than we thought. Fading into the cosmic noise at some small number of light years, I think it was 3 ish

>>1846023

It's more than 3.

Current estimates are that it will end up indistinguishable from background with even the most sophisticated of equipment at around 50-70 ly.

>>1846023
So how can we send any signals?

>>1846027

By refining our methods.

>>1846027
Why would we want to even if they are intelligent we don't know if they are benevolent, or even what their motivations or technology level would be......

>>1846030
What methods? If every wavelength turns to noise, then we're fucked.

>>1846045

Its called technology. It does shit like that.

>>1845750
OP here, what I meant by that is that what if the water has chemicals and radiation in it that would be fatal to us?

>>1846027
>>1846030
Actually we sent a bunch of messages to Gliese 581c which will take 29 years to get there and assuming that they have the proper technology then it will take another 29 years for them to send us messages back.

But what really intrigues me is that Wow! signal that we received from the Sagittarius constellation. It will take 200 years for us to send a message back to the constellation and imagine them having sent the message 200 years ago with our technology.

>>1846076

The point is the signal will be faint as fuck after 200 ly with our surrent signalling technology.

>>1846069
Faith is not science, gtfo.

>>1846023

how, exactly, could SETI prove anything like that without actually intercepting the signals (or lack thereof) at about the 3-ish lightyear mark?

oh, that's right... they can't.

so i suppose all the radio signals we hear from space are generated within the orbit of say... pluto.

>>1846076
>But what really intrigues me is that Wow! signal that we received from the Sagittarius constellation.
What's this? I don't recall, did I miss something? When?

>>1846091


Are you a fucking idiot?

Look up the inverse square law.

>>1846093
Sauce
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow_signal

>>1846093

>>What's this? I don't recall, did I miss something? When?

Ahhhh yes, the hook is set...

>>1846099

don't have to look up the inverse square law (which doesn't apply to electromagnetic frequencies - else you couldn't see the light from the stars you putz) - only have to know that radio/light... waves are perturbations in real space and as such, are constrained by newtonian physics - one of which tenants plainly (and correctly) states that an object in motion tends to stay in motion. as the entire universe is in constant motion, the chance of there being something between, say, us and the light of Antares, is slim to none (i.e. even if there WAS something in the way, it's gone now... get it?).

therefore - radio waves, and light, travel forever until something stops it.

stand in your backyard at night. look up. find a star. move to the right about three feet. does the light of that star still shine on you in your new position? do you realize how weak that photon flow must be to be 'everywhere' all the time and at once?

and yet you say that 'weak assed' light.

amen.

>>1846142

>> Inverse square law doesn't affect light

>> mfw

>>1846142
>amen
Be careful what you say.

>>1845718
> if they're in line-of-sight space, and they have radio recievers, then they've been recieving our radio waves for the past 50 years or so

Nope. Most of our radio transmissions have been aimed at earth, not into space. They would be ridiculously weak from 20 light-years away.

I'm talking about building a VERY directional antenna pointed directly at Gliese 581 and a transmitter that has its own power station to run it.

IOW, rather than hoping that they are eavesdropping on us whispering to ourselves, shout at them through a megaphone.

>>1846173

It would be somewhat akin to shouting at someone in the opposite side of a full football stadium through a megaphone.

>>1846183
> It would be somewhat akin to shouting at someone in the opposite side of a full football stadium through a megaphone.

That doesn't mean that you can't communicate. It's possible to receive a signal which is much weaker than the background noise, by virtue of a signal being correlated while noise is uncorrelated.

We have to assume that the other side has something like SETI. Our transmissions aren't suddenly going to pop up on their TV screens.

>>1846173
Why would you do that......

>>1846173

>>Most of our radio transmissions have been aimed at earth, not into space...

actually, they're not really aimed anywhere (a bit of attenuation perhaps). as long as nothing is in the way of the reciever and the sender, then the wave gets to the reciever.

there is nothing (much) in the way "up" that blocks those wavelengths.

we really shouldn't continue to meet like this. I'm correct and those of you who disagree are wrong.

if radio waves can't come from distant places in our galaxy (possibly the universe), then why do we have huge arrays of listening devices aimed at the sky?

>>1846159

amen i say. you are wise beyond your years.

what the hell are you doing up so late?

i'm in hawaii - it's still early here.

>>1846173

why, exactly, do you assume there's someone at the other end to receive a signal once all that elaborate crap is set up?

kind of the cart before the horse, don't you think?

why don't we LISTEN closely to that small region of space and see if we hear something first...

>>1846241
I am a rich bastard who no longer works, I sleep when I want. Besides, only 12am.

Why haven't we directed a signal yet towards that system? Couldn't anyone with a radio station do it?

>>1846236
> >Most of our radio transmissions have been aimed at earth, not into space...
> actually, they're not really aimed anywhere (a bit of attenuation perhaps).

That's the problem. The radiation is spread out over 4*pi steradians; it would be much more effective if it was focused into a narrow beam (I'm thinking "maser" here).

Actually, most antennae concentrate the radiation roughly parallel to the ground; anything which goes up is wasted. But this is relative to a spinning planet, so the net effect is as if it was spread out in all directions.

Radio transmissions which are aimed upwards tend to be very tightly focused (satellite dish), and they aren't focused at Gliese 581.

>>1846206
>Our transmissions aren't suddenly going to pop up on their TV screens.

Then we need to try harder.

>>1846360
No we don't in fact we should be actively masking our signals.

>>1846368
Why would we want to mask our signals?

>>1846387
So that the mandalorians don't intercept them.

>>1846404
Fucking lold

>>1846404
Yeah, but in reality it's not really the civilizations with the ability to hear us that we need to be worried about, it's the ones actively broadcasting to us that we need to be concerned about. The ones who pick up our messages stand a decent chance of being no more advanced than we are. It's the ones who's transmissions we pick up that we need to worry about when you consider that those transmissions are likely hundreds or thousands of years old whereas we've only had the ability to listen in on electromagnetic transmissions for the past 90 years or so.

>>1846252
> why, exactly, do you assume there's someone at the other end to receive a signal once all that elaborate crap is set up?

I don't. But it's worth a shot. Right now, it's the only known possibility of getting a reply within our lifetimes.

> why don't we LISTEN closely to that small region of space and see if we hear something first.

Listening is good, but there's no guarantee that they have seen us. We aren't going to hear any omnidirectional transmissions, so we need to give them a reason to aim a signal at earth.

>>1845458
>There's just as much chance of them being a bunch of pasifists as a bunch of war mongering grey heads.

Exactly, we don't KNOW if aliens would be hostile or not. So even if we gave it a 1% chance they could be hostile, it'd still be incredibly stupid to needlessly broadcast ourselves to the universe because we're gambling with the destruction of all of humanity. Hawking is entirely correct at warning us, because it is better to err on the side of caution when dealing with the highest possible stakes.

Hawking has become a popscientist just like Sagan and as such he is irrelevant to actual scientific pursuits.

>>1845445
>There's just as much chance of them being a bunch of pasifists as a bunch of war mongering grey heads.

How exactly do you support this conclusion if you've already conceded that you have no basis upon which to found this proposed equal probability of outcomes?

If they had to evolve into a form capable of civilization, they had to compete. Competition for survival makes pacifism unlikely.

The british space program will get us there.

>>1846997

Yep, let's give up on the possibility of a lifetime because we might all be killed!!!!!

The pursuit of other life is far too important to get paranoid about. You're worse than 911 conspiracists.

Ok so the problem is that it takes to fucking long to send something there. Maybe they thought of that earlier and a probe of them with videos and pictures of their planet and information about their civilization could arrive any day now.

>>1847064

I hope it's going to be in .avi format because my mediaplayer doesn't read .wmv

Start living up to 5000 years.
Problem solved.

>There are possibly intelligent humanoids living 20.5 light years from us.
>humanoids
How about some nice green slime without any intelligence?

>What if the water there is not the right kind of water we need to survive?
If it is contaminated with microbae or poisonous, all you have to do is clean it. Expensive but managable.

Maybe you have radiated water meaning it got a little to much radiation and deuterium and tritium were created, then it could also become poisonous--> that's the same as poisonous water. You can clean it/seperate radioactive/heavy water from normal water. It would be expensive but managable.

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