/sci/ - Science & Math

What strength of EM field is required to affect the function of the human brain? Do you think there is a link between the increase of ambient EM fields (radio, cell, computer, etc.) and the increase of autism rates?

bump

Is OP the charlatan that exploits the placebo effect by 'treating' autism with rTMS, despite the collective clinical evidence suggesting it has no real efficacy?

>>1832653
I don't know what the specific strength would be, but it would have to be pretty damn strong. We use electromagnetic induction to manipulate brain activity as a means to investigate causally what function certain areas have. I don't think cell phones are even remotely strong enough to cause any sort of effect, and certainly not to cause autism.

>>1832671
A better answer would have been, 'we don't know'.

>>1832674
What the fuck? No.

>>1832676
Different tripfag then?

>>1832675
Well, we don't, but it seems unlikely.

>>1832682
Yeah...

>>1832671
Thanks.

>>1832676
How many examples, and to what extent, do you know of brain's rewiring themselves after some serious damage?

>>1832689
This happens in every stroke victim to some extent. The miraculous cases of massive and extreme rewiring after complete hempspheriectomy or temporal lobe bisections are rare and restricted to infants because their brains are plastic enough. Plasticity decreases significantly as you get older but some slight compensation can still take place.

>>1832689
Neuroplasticity is not some strange and random occurrence, it is a foundational part of how the brain works. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity#Applications_and_examples

>>1832709
There was a show on TV about a 20 something year old that had a memory disorder. Essentially he forget every day after it happened, he had no long term memory.

After a load of emotional shit, and some treatments, his doctors said that his brain was in the process of fixing itself.

Do you think this ability will ever be harnessable?

>>1832733
Sure, but not in the near future. The exact metabolic mechanisms underlying neural plasticity are not fully understood, and we have no way of manipulating it without intense invasive surgery. The best hope for treating brain trauma would not be inducing plasticity because that would go at the cost of other brain functions (using tissue to do something else takes away from it's original function). It's better to create new tissue by stimulating neurogenisis or using stem cell treatment for instance.

IMA BUMPIN MA THREAD

Hello OP, I do have a question which I'm hoping you might be able to answer.

The brain can give off certain wavelengths (theta waves may be one of the sort, if I'm not mistaken), can it not? From time to time in the news have I seen stories relating to controlling things with the mind in a non-invasive way, usually through the use of a sort of gel-filled cap. If it is possible [with the right technology] to make use of brainwaves by sending them out, could it be possible to receive information by having the same sorts of wavelengths bombard one's head?

>>1832779
Good question.

First let me explain a little bit about what those waves are. When a neuron fires there is an influx of (relatively) positively charged ions into the cell and this can be measured from the outside of the cell as a relative shift to negative charge. When large populations of neurons rhythmically synchronize and desynchronize their activity this can be measured as 'waves' in the voltage potential. This is so strong that it can be measured from outside the skull with EEG, that's the gel filled cap you're referring to.

It is possible to control a simple computer cursor with your own brain activity by simply imagining a certain color, because this results in a change in neural oscillations measurable from outside the skull. If you want to move the cursor left, you imagine a color, and if you want to move it right, you imagine moving your hand for instance.

Sadly, this is currently a one way trick, because stimulating populations of neurons in a specific manner is way more tricky to do selectively from outside of the skull. The skull basically sums and smooths all activity because the current has to move through it. It is possible to stimulate brain activity to some extent using electromagnetic induction, but the spatial precision is somewhat limited.

>>1832813
I see. Thank you for your insight.

>>1832825
no problem ;)

>>1832830
Actually, I think I may have another question, considering you'd be willing to answer a question regarding the nervous system in general. Is that alright?

>>1832853
Of course, go ahead.

>>1832855
I like you.

>>1832862

I was thinking about Neuroscience as a uni degree
Anyone in here studied it (that's a stupid question you probably have)
How interesting is it?

>>1832870
>Anyone in here studied it
I have an MSc. in cognitive neuroscience.
>How interesting is it?
That depends on you. I think it's fascinating. The brain is one of the most complex dynamical systems we know, yet we all have one right inside our head. There are many levels to study it, ranging from single molecular interactions to complex behavioral interactions. We <span class="math">are[/spoiler] our brains. The more I learn about them the more I learn about myself.

>>1832855
Very well then.

I'm a [highschool] student that's going into Biomedical Engineering to work in the prosthetics field, so I imagine that I will be working closely with people that're knowledgeable in the field of nervous systems. I know that there are non-invasive prosthetic limbs out there than can be maneuvered by muscular contractions just below the skin which the limb makes contact with; however, these limbs are still rather simplistic in their operations, in comparison to their natural counterparts. Could such devices be made better [or easier] use of by tapping directly into nerves lying under the skin?

>>1832897
They potentially could, but the problem with that is that the patient would need constant immunosuppressive drugs to prevent the body from rejecting the prosthesis. Neurons (and thus nerves) are also very fragile structures and inserting electrodes to measure their activity tend to shift about (especially if it's in a limb meant for movement) and thereby destroy them. I think in the future we would need to develop better ways of measuring motor neuron related activity in a less invasive way than the present technology allows. This decade would be just the right time to get into that research, so you're spot on in your timing ;)

>>1832913
>They potentially could, but the problem with that is that the patient would need constant immunosuppressive drugs to prevent the body from rejecting the prosthesis. Neurons (and thus nerves) are also very fragile structures and inserting electrodes to measure their activity tend to shift about (especially if it's in a limb meant for movement) and thereby destroy them.

Though I'm a bit disappointed, I can't say I'm terribly surprised either.

>This decade would be just the right time to get into that research, so you're spot on in your timing ;)

Heh, you don't say.

Once again, thank you for your insight. I think that's all I'll have to ask.

i failed my masters unit in psychoneuro pharmacology.
on the plus side i took the exam three times and studied (at times) for two years.

parkinsons
alzhiemers
affective disorders
depression

at your service, almost in that order lol

>>1832889
What University did you study at?

>>1832932
>Though I'm a bit disappointed, I can't say I'm terribly surprised either.
There's no need to be disappointed. These are just challenges that can be overcome.
>Once again, thank you for your insight. I think that's all I'll have to ask.
Glad I could help.

>>1832945
University of Amsterdam

>>1832944
Feel free to take over for a bit. I'm going for a cigarette.

Undergrad BME here who wants to get into neural engineering. What were the most important undergrad neuro/neuro related classes you took? I'll even accept biochem or something if you would think it's among the most important.

>>1832998
All classes are important, but I'd say the most fundamental courses are the ones you'd want to take. Neurophysiology, biochemistry, genetics and neuroanatomy rank high.

>>1832998
biochem is a core class that has everything to do with anything biology.

>>1833034
>>1833037

Well, we only get to take 3-4 classes as electives, everything else is already decided for us for the entire undergrad program, so I want to make my electives count. I could always take more classes down the road, but BME's have it pretty rough anyway, so I'm not looking to burn myself out.

>>1833056
As a BME student don't you take biochem anyway?

>>1833056
I'm familiar with the requirements for a BME degree. Really, all you need to get a good neuroscience foundation on top of what you already know from BME is neurophysiology and neuroanatomy maybe coupled with some sort of embryology course. None of which are too hard.

>>1833062
The only official chemistry courses required at gen chem 1 & 2. Pre-med students are advised to take organic 1 & 2. I've taken organic, though I'm not a pre-med myself.

Many BME programs require organic 1 & 2, the rest don't. I've never seen one that requires biochem. Bioengineers might have it slightly different, however.

Have neuroscientists refuted the theory of dualism and hylomorphism?

>>1833108
Well the problem with those theories is that not a lot of testable hypotheses follow from them (especially dualism). I'd say most neuroscientists are hardcore materialists (including me) because there is simply no reason to believe there is anything beyond the material. There is a 1:1 relationship between brain function and subjective phenomena such as consciousness.

>>1833108
Don't need to - they were refuted by philosophers.

>>1833142
[citation needed]

>>1833169
Let's not turn this into a philosophy vs philosophy thread.

>>1833169
Not definitive but a good introduction:
Hylomorphism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hylomorphism#The_problem_of_intellect

Mind Body Duality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_%28philosophy_of_mind%29#Arguments_against_dualism

If you would like I could argue these points with you - so please familiarize yourself with them.

>>1833194
You're so polite and ready to debate I'll take your word for it.