/sci/ - Science & Math

Conservation of Energy fail

seems legit
you sir have just solved perpetual motion and created an endless supply of energy
well done

>>1813613
where is the energy lost?
water always travels to the area of high concentration

the filters are semipermeable in the sense that they let water through and not salt

NO FUCK YOU STUPID FUCKING IDIOT GO BACK TO /b/ AND FUCK NO THAT WOULDN'T WORK QUIT TROLLING ME LOL I TROLLL UUUUUUUU

YES I MAD YES I MAD YES I MAD

captcha: FUCKK YOUOUOUUU

>>1813666
if you're so mad then just twll me why it won't work

>>1813628
turning the turbine
you can't have efficiency<100%
i don't see where the mistake is, but there's a mistake

how do you make those arrows

They could be useful for a lot of things

>>1813682
so what you're saying is that I'm wrong but you have no clue why?

sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me

me:1
sci:0

>>1813682

I think the water would become more entropic from the motion, causing it eventually to boil.

>>1813682
>turning the turbine
>you can't have efficiency<100%
lol wut

>>1813706
so the only problem is that you would occasionally have to cool it/add water?

also from a chemistry point of view, water is bigger than sodium and magnesium cations, so you can't really sell your end product as distilled h2o. You would never be able to create the filter.

>>1813709
apparently everything must be more that 100% efficient

>>1813714

Which would take energy. Boomshakalaka.

>>1813720

He could use starch molecules or any other large solute that can be concentrated between the filters.

>>1813720
the point isn't to sell the water, it's to power the turbine

you can def make a filter that allows water but not salt
hint:every cell everywhere does it

>>1813726
more than it generates?

>>1813709
yeah you know what i meant
btw how do you get the water to pass from a low concentration to a high concentration
i only briefly learned about osmosis in biology and learning how maple syrup is made

>>1813745

hint: that's not called a filter. Look it up

>>1813756
yes, it would be a membrane
same god damn thing except when it doesn't surround something it is a filter

>>1813751
water has a natural tendency to travel from areas of low concentration to high concentration
it just does

guys!
Would this work:

Light a bulb
wait 1 hour
use warmth of the bulb to create energy for the bulb to light = PERPETUUM MOBILE

>>1813747
>>1813747

It would take at least as much energy as you're producing via the turbine, but that energy could be provided by natural air that is less than 100°C.

So. Wouldn't the salt water fall down in the clear water and ruin the whole thing?

for a short period of time, yes.
>>1813597

well if you look at the diagram, the pressures from the two
columns of water are grossly disproportional due to their height,
and also because the density of salt water is higher than regular
water. pressure is probably more than double in the tube on the
right, which would cause a flow in the opposite direction that OP
is proposing, with the pressure definitely high enough to
overcome any kind of counteracting force due to osmosis.

remember, all fluids want to maintain equilibrium by keeping the
same height

>>1813726
ok, so the whole system would be put under immense pressure, raising the bp really high
the difference between the room temp and bp will be too great for the system to ever make enough heat to boil the water

Salt water is heavier. It takes too much effort to push it through the filter. Shit would just keep filling on the left side.

Why don't we just pay a man to sit and turn a turbine...? Have a bicycle gear system to make it easier. Problem solved, no?

Shit, it would help with the lack of jobs nowadays too. (Speaking from the UK)

>>1813792
you are trying to sound smart but failing
the force of osmosis will easily overcomes gravity
open up any biology book above a 9th grade level and you will see a diagram depicting just that

Who do you think wins here

Man, I am like the paintshop wizard

The problem is that osmosis would have no reason to take place in the upper membrane, since water would neet to flow from an hypertonic to a hypotonic solution. The osmotic pressure would be equal to the one at the lower membrane. And if you remove the upper membrane, then the concentrations would eventually become isotonic, ending the cycle. Nice try though.

>>1813799
the filter would prevent the salt from leaving the closed in area

>>1813812

Are you telling me that you have 100% figured out how and why transpiration works

Seriously, hook me up with the details and your paypal or something, I will give you some royalties

>>1813794

Immense pressure = immense energy needs.

I's be a /b/tard too, but you were being so goddamn insistent that you needed to come the fuck down.

>>1813820
the upper membrane would have no collecting area above it
osmosis would force the water in the bottem and the added pressure would be relieved out the top

btw, I know why this wouldn't work and so far all of you are dead wrong

>>1813812
yeah maybe for small pressure differences, but with a height disparity like the one portrayed in the diagram, it'd never work

>>1813831
only initial energy needs
once the system is put under pressure to start you could keep it there by sealing the room

>>1813812

Open up a physics book and look at equations on pressure. Not gon work

>>1813821
Ah. It seems legit then. I'm gonna go built this bitch and earn millions.

Later bitches!

>>1813840
so then he decreases the height of the column until that's not a problem
there's still a srs problem due to the first law of thermodynamics

>>1813840
wrong again
osmosis is immesnly more powerful than graity (without time for gravity to build of course)

getting out my bio book for some numbers

>>1813812

>>1813834
No collecting area? well the upper side of the upper filter would be wet since there's water flowing through. And that water that's already flowed through is pure. So the pressure is equal to the pressure at the bottom = no circulation

>>1813844
look buddy
I know my physics better than most people on here
I also know my bio and chem

it would fucking work
I have personally seen a collum of water rise above another just by adding a solute to it

>>1813868
the osmotic pressure would be greater on the left than above

>>1813869

alright
since you dumb fucks on /sci/ obviously know nothing about science and couldn't prove my idea wrong I will explain it to you
the problem is in the osmosis itsself
who knows what causes osmosis?
osmosis is caused by the solute molecules repelling eachother
that repulsion can cause water to be pulled across a membrane/filter
for all you fucks doubting the height of the collum thing, it works
the reason the system would fail is because the salt mocelules have no room to repell into
to room to repell into=no suction=no osmosis

>>1813904
>>1813904

>>1813904
in conclusion, lrn2basicchemistry before you try to argue about gravity, thermodynamics, and other shit
dumbasses

>>1813904
lol /sci/ loses /b/ wins

>>1813914
to be fair I have studied chem, bio, physics, and math more than most people
and not high school shit, college shit

If anyone really is braindead, or a child or something you will find it easier to visualize using this finely crafted diagram

ammonia skatouch

inb4pointingoutsuccessfultroll

>>1813914
>>1813914

>>1813904
now what motherfucker

>>1813932
how does that change anything?

Pressure = P_atm
nukka

>>1813897
>>1813912
>>1813924
Oh shit... /b/ is pissin off Judy. Er Judge Judy, I mean. Sorry. I'm sorry, your honor.

>>1813818
>>1813818
>>1813922
>>1813922

Take a good look at these, and try to visualize what is going to happen

1888 bliamilm

>>1813932
>>1813932

>>1813936
water passes through the filter removing all salt from it and making space for more water
checkmate motherfucker

>>1813932

I'm taking you down, and your baloney contraption with it.

Go build this
Make new thread
show
stop pissing us off

I'm scared.

>>1814006

>Everybody who talks about science instead of 'doing it' is 'pissing people off'

You're a class A Moron.

>>1814015
Well, yes, it's just scientific study until then.

>>1814011

Dun worry, Judy sacrificed herself to explode the acetone peroxide in the name of science.

>>1813932
where is your god now /sci/

>>1813936
Is there really no filter that will only allow the water to pass through and keep the salt back?

>>1814021
All she had to do was flex her bicep a little.

>>1814034
No, there really isn't. I learned about that in 7th grade. Seriously.

>>1814030

I'm in hell, anxiously awaiting your soul. Bitch.

>>1814045
7th grade was along time ago
how often do you think i read about osmosis/filters?

Judge Judy is totally /sci/'s god.

>>1814058
Come at me.

>>1814062
Since you post on /sci/, it should pretty much be common knowledge I would hope.

>>1814070

Let's settle this in a court of law. Did you give Joseph child support?

So I was thinking "haha, I will copy this guys idea but change it a little bit and maybe I will be cool too"

But

My idea does work, and is probably the future

Captcha: vivisel FUTURE

>>1814088
Nice dubs, and I'm not the biblical faggot everyone lies about me being. I live my own life.

>>1814093

Someone sage this thread to death so no-one plagiarizes my idea to become rich before I can do it

Pressure is a function of height
it doesn't matter how wide the tank on the left is

God help me, this is an exploit that no-one has noticed yet but I just shared with 4chan

>>1814102

Baloney. If you're my God and not the other way around, how come I roll the dubs?

Judgement for the Judy in the amount of divine dominion.

>>1814123
I think you need to actually read my post.

>>1814133

So are you saying to me that you live your own life and never manipulate 4chan to give you doubles? Yoah a liah Mr. Gahd.

needs magnets

If God lives his own life, then he isn't God. Judy wins. Judy is GOD.

>>1814070
>>1814088
>>1814102
>>1814123
>>1814133
>>1814143

Ya'll did swear on nothin'.

>>1814145 lol
>>1814143 I speak so much truth people can't take it.
I get dubs when I get dubs. Think.

>>1814158
OMyself lol

>>1814169

Nigga yo ain't a book.

>>1813597
The water on the right would be a tiny bit higher than the water on the left due to the osmotic force drawing water in from the left, but not nearly enough to overcome the force of gravity, and that's at maximum salt saturation.

In other words, yes, you will have an energy gradient, but no, it wouldn't be enough to cause what you want to happen.

Even if it did the water would eventually reach osmotic parity. And you can't have a one way filter, it violates entropy (look up Maxwell's Demon).

>>1814188

In soviet russia, entropy violates you.

You have an osmotic force trying to force the water through the 2nd membrane but leaving the salt (reverse osmosis).
Here's a quote from wikipedia for you:
Formally, reverse osmosis is the process of forcing a solvent from a region of high solute concentration through a semipermeable membrane to a region of low solute concentration by applying a pressure in excess of the osmotic pressure.

>>1814199
Hehehe, /thread bitches.

no