/sci/ - Science & Math

>>1813262

>>1813262

please leave. I don't hate /lit/ but we don't need more outsiders shitting up our board, least of which with more fucking tier charts.

>>1813336
It's just a taste of our board if you don't like us then leave us alone

OP your chart is so fucked up.

>>1813262
>wiser

Go to /lit/.
See this at top. >>1163535

A wise man doesn't boast, OP.

But fellow, full-on /lit/ard here--becoming an English teacher even.

I think its that /sci/fags can't seem to accept anything on the basis of cultural or aesthetic worth. Their loss.

>>1813354
0/10 you're just butthurt

>>1813352
And you faggots can't appreciate nature. That's why you do art, too bad its only a pitiful attempt at what nature already does.

/lit/ likes /sci/
I don't think there is any hatred.

Crossboard trolling this is.

>>1813365
Philosophy is real nature. If you don't know anything about philosophy you don't know anything about life

>>1813262
Went to /lit/, found out this thread was serious and not troll.

Dude, it is not that we hate /lit/. But the reason for the seperate board is that most /lit/ material is off topic. And when we have tried to strike up conversations about our favorite reading material there it got shouted down and out. So, we keep over here, and you guys stay there. We shall sit here and enjoy our Asimov, Clarke, Sagan, Heinlein, Pournelle, Niven, Wells, Verne, and many more, and you can all enjoy whatever it is you read.

>>1813365

>>1813373
Just, no.

>>1813262
Lo/lit/a here!

OP'S PICTURE IS FAKE. IT'S TO RILE YOU UP.

>>1813329
Also I am TOTALLY going to use this pickup line. Thanks, /lit/!

I guess you /lit/fags have nothing better to do, seeing as humanities has no real workload.

>>1813377
A man seeking to isolate himself from society only coincidentally runs in with nature, because obviously where there are fewer humans the area is in a more natural state.

Thoreau wasn't seeking to learn about nature, he was just batshit insane and socially inept.

Next.

I don't go to /lit/
But I don't hate it.
I also don't hate on culture.
Appreciating culture is a part of being in society.
If appreciating culture is the most intellectual thing you can do, then you are a retard.
The end.

>>1813365
Sounds like you see aesthetic worth in nature?

Fantastic! Try expressing that and see what you get... oh right, art.

I have no qualms with science, but if I see another thread shitting on liberal arts degrees I might dropkick a baby. The horse is dead, guise.

Funny thing; I've read most of those books in that chart. The Stranger is good, but The Plague is quite possibly Camus' best book. Everything comes together there.

Also, Science, Philosophy, Literature/Poetry and Art need one another. Those who throw away philosophy/literature are most likely sons of Plato's Republic; they just don't know it yet. What they really don't know is that Plato was humiliated on a daily basis by Diogenes.

For the record, I enjoy Aristotle much more than Plato.

>>1813262
>Heart of Darkness
>shit tier
that's why i hate you

>>1813396
>expressing
This is where art fails. Why express anything? Better to learn why the leaves are green than to draw a pretty little picture.

>>1813397
>throw away philosophy
>supporter of plato's republic
wut

>>1813396

A Liberal Arts degree is pretty useless, in regards to our economic climate. Unless that is expounded upon in Graduate school where you acquire a Doctorate of Philosophy in Comparative Literature and a similar topic, I don't see where anyone is going with a BA in Liberal Arts. Secondly, while I do agree that the liberal arts curriculum can be fascinating, there is no reason why one should dedicate four arduous years to study a curriculum primarily geared towards it. After a while, it becomes repetitive.

>>1813407
OK, if you legitimately think this, you're an aspie. Expressing one's feelings is simply part of being a healthy individual, regardless of how artfully you do it.

If you haven't figured out that learned explanations don't resolve everything, you either haven't been alive very long or haven't interacted with many people.

>>1813408

>they just don't know it yet.

Remember Plato's whole ideas about forms/ideas? Physical reality? Then, poetry/art? Etc, etc. That's what I'm alluding to.

>>1813407

This is why we can't have nice things.

>>1813440

This is 4chan, afterall.

>>1813440
If you think this, you are an idiot. I'll take Asperger's over your Trisomy 21 any day.

>>1813459

You're honestly trolling now. That, or you're a sociopath.

Either way, I don't give a shit. It's people like you that give Science a bad name.

wiser?
you must be trolling, OP.

>>1813459
I don't really see how it's debatable.

You's trolling. You're probably the same little shit that posts library cards all over the place.

>>1813476
>>1813508
You idiots think it's more important to draw pictures of a tree than to understand how it works. Fuck you're both moronic.

>>1813520

>more important to draw pictures of a tree ..

That premise was never added, nor implied. You're attempting to add another indirect premise to the discussion to fuel your own stupidity, and prove some veil of superiority. The other Anon simply stipulated that, while Science is necessary, art/expression has it's priorities.

It was a really good try to troll, though. I give it a 4/10.

>>1813541
You really are mentally challenged, so i'll refer you:
>>1813407

>>1813520
Really showing your lack of reading comprehension here. We're saying emotional expression is a necessary part of being human.

Never said drawing the picture is more important, but it still IS important. Acknowledging that is the only courtesy we /lit/erates really ask.

more like this

>>1813553

>This is where art fails. Why express anything? Better to learn why the leaves are green than to draw a pretty little picture.

Okay, and? The other Anon never stated that drawing leaves is more important than learning why the leaves are green in the first place. YOU were the first one to add some premise that was NEVER proposed by the other person; he NEVER implied that ever. Ever, ever, ever.

You're honestly being made to look like a fucking fool. Just leave.

>>1813553
So Mr. Scientist won't be reasoned with? You're a credit to your kind (and that's sarcasm, in case your reading comprehension fails again).

Culture is something everyone should understand and analyze from a personal standpoint.
Everyone should also be able to express themselves artistically.
Also, everyone should have at least a moderate understanding of science and mathematics.
After that, specialization is your decision.

>>1813564
what's wrong with gay bukkake porn
or engineering

>>1813572

>Philosophy shit-tier.

I don't understand you fucks.

I'm a Mathematics major, but even I can comprehend that philosophy is the essential forefather to the Science we have today. It's the love/study of wisdom; Science was birthed out of this.

It may not be applicable in today's economic market, but it should be respected as an academic discipline regardless.

>>1813585
>>1813590
You're lack of any sort of analytical ability is characteristic of Trisomy 21. Go back to /lit/, you can't do math so you don't belong here.

>>1813606

That's because most /sci/fags dont really understand what you do in a philosophy major. Also, many of them dont understand that most people who major in philosophy go on to graduate or professional school( Law, Medicine, Business, etc). They think that people are going to stop at a BA/BS and thats it. Funny thing is...many of them dont realize that getting just a BA/BS in ANY discipline(other then engineering) isn't going to get you ANYWHERE.

Literature is the lowest form of all human artistic expression. Art is an attempt at conveying the non conveyable inner human experience, the innate qualia that escape our linguistic capabilities. Art is the need to express that which can not be put into words. Why the hell would you use words to do that?

>>1813606
why get a degree in philosophy then?
you get a degree to get a job.
if you just wanted to study something read about it

>>1813606
>I'm a Mathematics major
and i'm the queen of England
>Science was birthed out of this.
Actually it was held back by this.

>>1813623
>You're lack

stopped reading there.

>>1813623

Oh, I see.

So /sci/ isn't about learning anymore. It's about being pretentious and bashing those who don't know as much as you/know about a different field than you.

I think this place should be a go-to place for people who don't understand math.

But I guess not.

Because of sociopaths like you.

>>1813646

Because, paradoxically, language is the most precise form of expression we have.

>>1813623

>Utterly fails.
>Resort to verbal slander/abuse.
>Adds the premise about doing math, when the topic isn't even being broached.
...
>Most of all, telling this to a third-year Mathematics major.

Good on you, mate. You're lurking 4chan well.

>>1813625

I suppose. I consider myself a /sci/fag, but it's really just a matter of how much you love learning about the world/life. I've read several books off of that chart, in addition to philosophical texts. I can see the beauty in literature, philosophy and even science/mathematics.

>>1813623
>>1813553
>>1813520
>>1813459
>>1813407
>>1813365

I love how this anon's disastrous attempt at trolling has simply made him look like a complete asshat to everyone in the topic. Delicious.

>>1813711
the butthurt is strong with this one.

I love this troll list.

>Ayn Rand

>>1813646
language is the best tool to express pure art, because it's not bound by anything material.

it's been reiterated times and times by philosophers and artists alike that poetry is the highest form of art. the situation is hardly different now.

I really hate /lit/ and /sci/.

/lit/ lacks empirical observation and systematic reasoning ability and over reliance on the labels and their associations (redefining a thing and assuming the changes the properties of that thing), while /sci/ lacks the ability to observe reality from a wide perspective(action x is most efficient when considering dimension y and the ignoring all other properties and interactions)

This is most absurd when you idiots talk about religion,art, philosophy,technology and science while completely missing the innate connection between all of these human endeavors.

>>1813711
Well I had to stoop to your level, /lit/fag.

I appreciate the sentiment of your post, but if you think any serious student of literature lacks...
>systematic reasoning ability
...you don't know many serious students of literature.

There's a reason why English is considered one of the best undergraduate majors for law students.

>>1813802
I don't really hate /sci/, but I find all the impressionable 12 year olds who think they know what they're talking about annoying. Besides them, it's an OK place. I love discussing science and astronomy, theories, and all of that with the respectable, intelligent posts here.

>>1813678
>>1813763

bullshit language is limited in the extreme. It's simply a reference to a reference to a reference and it cannot capture anything beyond these references. it's inseparably bound to a single culture. Compare this to music for example. A few notes can convey a range of emotion across cultures and time.

>>1813262
switch Wonderland and Gatsby and ill be more inclined to agree

OP that list is fucking awful, and doesn't reflect /lit/'s opinion

>>1813838
I said /lit/-the 4chan board /lit/- not law students.

>>1813870

I'd disagree. With something like a poem, there's text before your very eyes to analyze, argue, and interpret. Music's ephemeral nature makes it less precise.

Also, if you're gonna argue literature is rooted in a particular cultural history, I see no way around that point applying to music, also. Sporadic drumming has a much clearer meaning to the African tribe than it does to me.

i dont hate /fit/ i actually lift weights myself

>>1813262
List was good until mid tier, then it just got troll-tastic.

Seriously, Atlus Shrugged, Pride and Prejudice and Ulysses above Heart of Darkness, Lolita, Huck finn, and motherfucking Hamlet.

Get fucked, you know shit about literature.

>>1813262
>Lolita in Shit tier

Fuck you /lit/.

Signed, /jp/ and parts of /a/

>atlas shrugged not in shit tier

>wtf_am_i_reading.jpg

>>1813942
Seconded from sociopaths.

Culture doesn't do shit except for entertainment.
Also,
>My face when 1984 wasn't on God tier.

>>1813978
hello aspie

i dont have /fit/ either i lift weights during my free time

>>1813978
Aside from entertainment, culture provides a society with a sense of heritage and common identity.

I think no one acknowledges this because the internet and the saturation of media is destroying any sense of common identity our modern society might share.

You put atlas shrugged over lord of the rings. You have no business living in human society.

>>1813838

Nobody's arguing literature is not precise, but to what ends? To try to vaguely conjure up understandings that will be experienced just as vaguely even if expressed concisely and non artistically. Music transcends that. It's a distillation of qualia encoded in form that can be appreciated across cultures. Sure African war drums may not convey the same meaning to you as it would to a member of the tribe that produces them, but you can recognize that they do have meaning and even experience emotions from their beat no context needed. That's true art. Pure distillation of human experience that is beautiful as an example of itself. Literature can never do that.

>>1813997
>common regional identity
fix'd for yah
look at a college, or a workplace, or a prison
all have vastly different cultures
humans are fucking awesome

>>1814009
Even if I were to accept your argument here, that's a far cry from literature being "the lowest form of all human artistic expression."

as a physicist, i despise things that are value-laden. this is why science is so great, and this is why a chinese literature prof can never communicate with an english literature prof, but physicists across the world communicate with each other with little loss in translation.

like einstein put it, we're trying to comprehend and appreciate "god's" thoughts. literature is about appreciating the work of mere mortals

I think literary people just get a bad rap because so many english majors are underachievers.
However I do sympathize with those who take writing seriously.
I mean no matter how you look at it both scientist and artists live austere lives, despite having a greater impact on society than businessmen.

seriously, the great gatsby is god-tier while Catch-22 is low-tier? I don't care if you hail from /lit/, your tastes are awful.

>atlas shrugged in mid tier

capitalist pigs

>>1814065

the impact you're talking about is utterly superficial. the failure of a business puts people out of work and physically affects their well-being, yet people can live happy lives without ever being exposed to the art and music that you're exposed to - in fact, billions of people around the world already do.

do you feel you're missing out in life just because you haven't read, say, the 4 classic chinese novels? or the music of legendary indian musician ravi shankar? same thing applies to shakespeare and billboard music

>>1814092
If it wasn't for science and art businesses wouldn't have anything to sell dumbass

>>1814092

So you don't buy into Socrates assertion, "The unexamined life is not worth living?"

Literature, or at least good literature, forces us to confront our lives. To compare our experience against the author's. It makes us think.

I won't disagree the businessman's failure has more immediate consequences, but I be careful to characterize the writer's work as "superficial."

>>1814111

o'rly? how about you get out of your fucking basement and pay your local supermarket a visit? i heard they're selling shit loads of stuff that have nothing to do with art

>>1814134
/Maslow's hierarchy
literature is good, but food, water, and environmental support are mandatory.

>>1814140
>SCIENCE and art

Also, the advertising that entices you to enter said supermarket has its roots in art.

>>1814140
Alright I guess if you want to go back to the middle ages and sell vegetables and meat, then yeah business is more important.

>>1814151

The hierarchy is bullshit, has been falsified, and are complete garbage, and so cultural based it's sick.

>>1814151

I don't think anyone really disagrees if that's the point you're making. But that doesn't make literature worthless.

>>1814161
>>the need for nutrient intake is cultural
and /lit/ wonders why they are called dumb...

>>1814134

like i said, have you ever read any chinese literature? the 2000-year worth of chinese literature that's way richer than all the shit you can ever find in english? have you ever been exposed to the artistic beauty of an ancient logographic language such as chinese? no? do you feel your life is not worth living as a consequence?

sage, not /sci/ related.

>>1814172

No because Chinese is for faggot chinks

>>1814172
it can't be helped. most of /lit/ is still catching up on lacklustre English works like The Bell Jar. ignorance is bliss, I guess...they don't even know enough to know what they're missing, and they're just as foolish re: science.

would be way more fun if this was a fight in real life

>>1814192
technologists vs emo scribes isn't much of a fight, especially when one side has explosives and both are fat.

Since when does /sci/ hate /lit/? This is the first time I've even seen /lit/ mentioned on /sci/, much less any sort of animosity between the two.

>Lord of the Rings
>Shit Tier
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

>>1814198

well fucking lit fags kept claiming that the pen is mightier than the sword.

i'd like to see them put their money where their mouths are.

>>1814209
you are sooooooo trolled

>>1814209
It's about a magic world turning to science.

>>1814204
I think it should be pretty clear by now that the OP is doing a satire of the tier list, which lists English as "waste of life" tier

>>1814172

You're missing the point. I might indeed feel that way if I were Chinese. Also, I'd totally find studying these things a rewarding use of time.

Regardless, do you think examining one's life is not a worthwhile pursuit? Literature is a means of doing this.

I don't think anyone's tried to make the argument that science/business/whatever is unimportant. But I do think high literature and culture should be given more respect than they currently have.

I'm not complaining that the writer scrapes by while the doctor makes $150,000 per year, I'm merely wish more people would at least hear the writer out.

There's real wisdom and insight to be found in literature. I understand that's not a quantifiable thing (also, OP's being a chochbag), but its there. Show some damn respect.

>>1814224
>while the doctor makes $150,000 per year
That's what they should earn
Thanks to our current insurance system which over pays for expenses they earn millions

>>1814224

no, you are the one who's missing the point. see, when it comes to science, it matters not your nationality or upbringing, we all study the same thing, because what we're doing is mapping out the one universal set of rules that apply everywhere.

on the other hand, your appreciation of literature is entirely arbitrary, you embrace english literature simply because you're born into a culture which speaks english, you could've been appreciating literature in an entirely different language. that very fact means that neither english lit nor chinese lit are fundamental, and you're not missing anything by not giving a shit, after all, it's just an arbitrary choice of mental conditioning to begin with. as scientists, we don't usually concern ourselves with non-fundamental, arbitrary shit that depends on cultural conditioning - something like that, if it indeed exists in our world would be deemed very bad and worthless science.

>>1813262

OP, how did you conceive of those ranks

It seems like you just kind of randomly assigned them

I guess you get some credit for luckily getting LOTR, Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mocking Bird in Shit tear

But otherwise I don't see your method

>>1814275

there is no method, it's literature, it's supposed to be subjective.

DEAL WITH IT!

>we're... mapping out the one universal set of rules that apply everywhere.

Yeah, no. Read Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions."

>we don't usually concern ourselves with non-fundamental, arbitrary shit that depends on cultural conditioning

And that's your loss, if you see it that way. It still baffles me that /sci/fags vehemently eschew culture. English literature is such a broad subject that there's bound to be some life changing shit you refuse to encounter out of some misguided allegiance to "science."

You'll realize someday that, while it does a damn good job, science can't articulate everything about the human experience.

>>1814315

and that's your loss for not reading chinese literature, or literature in any of the other hundreds of languages, i mean, literature is such a broad subject that there's bound to be some life changing shit you refuse to encounter out of some arbitrary misguided allegiance to your mother tongue

>Yeah, no. Read Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions."

no thank you. what i'm doing isn't remotely as ambiguous, superfluous and subjective as literature for me not to be able to form a definitive opinion of what i'm doing without reading some book.

>>1814338
You're very close-minded for a scientist.

Anyway, this isn't getting either of us anywhere. Enjoy your Asperger's. Good night.

>Heart of Darkness
>Shit tier
whatthefuckamireading.jpg

>>1814308
Niggers better deal with it

>>1814364

and you're a very close-minded english fag who just got exposed. now you're embarrassed, you may GTFO.

guys guys
I..how about
guys just listen for one sec
okay so what if..
what if we love both Science AND Humanities?

>>1814558

that kinda seemed like what "english fag" was advocating...

>>1814558
HERESY!

>>1814558
I'll never love the fact that I have to take humanities to finish my degree. Humanities courses are a waste of time and are worthless. My time would be better spent focusing more on science and math courses, instead of stupid humanities nonsense.

>>1814405
Yeah, I agree with the addition.

>>1813373
Seconded.

/sci/ don't know absolutely nothing about philosophy. That's because this board always talk shit about things like religion, politics... subjects /sci/ never want and never will understand.

>>1814558
But love belongs to humanities, /sci/ has no time for love, only partial differential equations.

>>1814558
Someone finally gets it, and it's been... how many hours now?
Well done, anon.

>>1814248
If you think the average doctor is a millionaire, u dum

A huge portion of them can't even pay off their medical school debts until they're middle aged. For their residency, it's not uncommon for their salary to be in the $40k-$50k range. After residency, many don't exceed $100k per year.

>>1814558
That's fine. /sci/ only gets mad when humanities demand the same respect as sciences. It'd be like /toy/ coming up in here and getting all butthurt that people weren't taking their hobbies seriously.

>>1814763
This. I hate that these hobbies are forced upon us. I suppose it's just to make sure you chose the right major.