/sci/ - Science & Math

Is it possible to use this technology to alleviate negro rage?

>>1789087
no. only lead moving very fast can cure that.

/k/ specializes in that

You again?
Well at least its science. Im just not accustomed to seeing a recurring identity here.

Whats all this business about thoughts being circuits of neurons firing in certain patterns?

>>1789095
Railguns are the weapons of the future.

>>1789087
I remember you and I hope you remember my answer. There is only one cure for that: Prison.

Source: Boondocks

But yes, I have treated individuals with rage disorders in the past

are you in or going to med school for neurology or something of the sort?

>>1789097
Me again? Am I making too many threads?

Well one theory of memory is that one memory is associated with an ordered firing of specific neurons specific to the memory.

As far as what thought is.. well that's the big question in neuroscience right now. I'm actually listening to a panel discussion from the Nour Foundation on that issue right now

>>1789100
Prison is not a cure.

lrn2/sci

>>1789136
It's a cultural reference to the Boondocks

lrn2notbeadick

>>1789145
References must be referenced.

lrn2english

>>1789154
7/10, would rage again

>>1789154
um, if you read his original reply, he listed his source right under it as being 'boondocks'

why you trolin'?

>>1789173
Was going to say-
Original post that is the main subject of the communication is what I was talking about. I apologize, I should have referenced.

But then re-read the actual post. (Facepalm)

>>1789188
Well, a perfectly awesome science topic comes around and trolls and idiots destroy it.

GJ.

>>1789196
its /sci/, what did you expect? This board needs to be flushed and rebooted.

RIP neuro

Is intelligence something that can be detected or is that hollywood bs?

OP I have ADD and use Ritalin. I do well in school and in my internship.. but only when drugged. Do you have a high quality side-by-side look at a typical normal brain and a typical ADD brain? Thanks

>>1789264
Well, IQ tests give you a fairly good estimation of intelligence (ESTIMATION), but if you are asking if intelligence can be estimated via non-engaging tests, well yes, yes it can.

It comes down to the efficiency of the brain, moreso glucose metabolism and efficiency. You can take an EEG or LORETA and measure brain efficiency by purely observing baseline activity. More efficient brains are more capable when it comes to approaching novel problems, more 'intelligent' you might say.

>>1789267
Rather then generate some pictures for you, i'll tell you that a typical ADD brain has a large amount of baseline slow wave/theta activity. Ritalin is basically speed for your brain, making you more alert and taking you out of the dreamlike state that you experience when you have nothing but this predominant theta (4-7hz activity). A more normal brain at rest has alpha activity predominantly with no real hints of theta/beta activity.

I tend to speak in terms of brainwaves, so I apologize if this is not the correct language for you.

as far as pictures go, though, if we visualize an ideal brain at say 10Hz activity, it should have large concentration in areas near the back of the brain where we receive information, with a decreasing gradient of this activity as we get to the prefrontal areas, whereas a brain with ADD may have the same activity in these receptive areas, but none of it in more functional areas like prefrontal cortex and language centers

>>1789287

Why has EEG neurofeedback consistently shown IQ increases in those with ADHD or related learning disorders after treatment and no increases are observed with medication?

>>1789305

OP, answer this. I can gather about 3 or 4 different studies if need be. I found the effect to be rather intriguing.

The effectiveness seems to greatly vary by method used and probably the specifics of the neurological abnormalities causing the symptoms of ADHD.

>>1789305
Neurofeedback facilitates one to learn how to more properly use the parts of their brain that is being trained. If you put your electrodes over the language center and train that up then you may see an increase in communication ability when the individual puts themselves in the appropriate state after learning how to do that with the training.

Medication that targets the brain lacks specificity enough to say, 'make someone smart.' Sure, you can say that someone who has been taking ritalin because they do have a severe case of ADD/baseline theta can now pay attention more, but rather then 'increasing cognitie ability' it makes it so that the individuals regular cognitive ability can shine through.

medication goes about changing neurotransmitter levels whereas neurofeedback (NF) training is training. Stop the medication away and you are left with someone going through withdrawl who's ability becomes once again masked by their disorder. Stop the training and well.. if the individual has done well in the training they have learned something that they can apply for the rest of their life

Why has EEG neurofeedback consistently shown IQ increases in those with ADHD or related learning disorders after treatment and no increases are observed with medication?


ADHD here. ADHD is not a learning disorder, it is simply a chemical imbalance in the brain that actually encoruages more brain activity in the beta and alpha ranges, which also results in the side effect of hyperactivity and curiosity.

i donno if you can help me but i was wondering: what range of brain waves [in hz] are most vulnerable to hypnotic suggestion, and which most useful to reinforcement of recent suggestion?

>>1789357
This is me, I suck with remembering to trip

>>1789351
The reason I provided a general response is because yes, you really need to look at it on a case by case basis. No neurofeedback protocol should be the same, and no medication combination will work for everyone

>>1789361

You're wrong. In principle, this is what ADHD is, but due to it being diagnosed through psychoanalysis there is error. Numerous neurological functions may cause symptoms of ADHD, varying in severity. This is why so many with learning disabilities have ADD/ADHD. In fact, ADHD if severe enough may in your context actually cause a learning disability.

I do not have the neurological ability to feel anger or hate.

Have you seen anyone similar before?

>>1789370
Oh, the entirety of the spectrum is suggestible. These brainwaves are really just representative of how the brain works.

If you go to a buddhist temple where they are knocking on the wood while meditating or meditate and listen to the chanting, you will hear beat frequencies that include heartbeat and theta, reinforcing a very relaxed dreamlike 'meditative' state.

I tout alpha frequency, though, 9-12 Hz, but you can't arbitrarily pick a frequency, like 9.5 or 10.7 or 11.1 . No, messing with your brain on this level requires more precise analysis to determine how you are functioning (via EEG).

>>1789376
I understand the fairly large problem with over-diagnosis and medication, simply saying that for most moderate cases of ADHD [like my own] it is not altogether a negative thing and I have found that Many of the people whom I know [and myself] who "suffer" of ADHD tend to be more academically and cognitively capable than most other student at our school.

>>1789372

Due to the nature of the studies, they all seemed to use the same protocol in treatment. Much like how you'd use a same dosage of medication for a study, even though some patients may need more or less than others.

>>1789386
yeah nada brahma [omm] supposedly tunes the mind into a certain brainwave.

I was just wondering because i've been considering researching an auditory-visual system to facilitate self hypnosis and havent really done my homework too well, thanks for the tip.

>>1789376
I guess I missed the post you are replying to while typing a response.
>>1789383
A neurologist or electrophysiologist or specialist told you this? I want to know how you know you have this neurological defecit before I answer your question.

how would i go about having my brainwaves analyzed? o_O

>>1789397
i am not the second person you replied to but when i was working as an intern at a mental health clinic i remember a case of a man who had some kind of a disorder and his brain was creating delta waves while he was awake, he seemed almost like a zombie.

He could speak, make gesture etc, but he had no perceptible emotion or "awakeness" if such a word exists.

>>1789399
Go to an electrophysiologist or neurologist and have them take an EEG. To be honest you'd have a better bet with an electrophysiologist. Thankfully EEG is becoming a little more mainstream in psychiatry because it can be used to show a patient's sensitivity to different medication classes, see "rEEG".

>>1789408
how much do EEGs cost on average?

>>1789405
That slow huh? Yeah, no wonder he was in a zombie-like state, your brain only really behaves like that while you are asleep, or in a coma. I mean, there are two main types of brainwave activities for those in comas, but that's a different issue.
I bet they put him on stimulants. I'd love to try some rTMS on an individual like that.

>>1789417
About $200-300 to be taken, about $500-$650 for it to be taken and for the physician to review it with you and give you a clinical report.

>>1789421

yeah, probably a high Modafinil dosage.

>>1789421
yeah thats what I was thinking, i remember hearing, delta is like stage 4 sleep.

The strangest thing was he was able to think, process information, but there was just this odd feel when you were talking to him.

why can't they merge EEG and fMRI? EEG's give creat temporal resolution and fMRI's have the spatial resolution. I figure you can't do an EEG and an fMRI at the same time because of the magnets, but there has to be a way around it.

Can't puts the thinggies together?

>>1789605
Just do LORETA with the EEG data - looks just like MRI data. And yes, if you do an fMRI while recording an EEG, you will not be able to analyze the data

Have you seen any drug or other technology that could potentially alter IQ yet?

>>1789710
Well yeah. rTMS will make your brain more efficient if you respond, making you process information with less energy requirement, effectively making you 'smarter'

>>1789405
Man, I wonder if I have that?

I don't remember all of the exact values but a while ago I took a (very scientific, performed by a neurologist in-person) IQ test and I got very high values for all but one of the measures. That one was processing speed, and I was in the 14th percentile for it. Overall I am in the 85th percentile (IQ of 115).

>>1789710
IQ is not hard wired, but you can increase your learnign potential temporarily by inducing alpha waves in your brain. this however comes with an additional vulnerability to misleading information.

Beta waves on the other hand are created by and facilitate rational thinking and logic. it would take a fair degree of training to be able to tap into either of these actions intentionally during an I.Q. Test

HOLY SHIT A GOOD THREAD ON /sci/

THIS *NEVER* HAPPENS

>>1789721
This may be a stupid question, but does the effect of rTMS correlate with present brain capacity? I am above average intelligence and have an I.Q. of 157, and while i have had no trouble to date with learning or logic, i am curious about how much farther my brain organ can perform.

in b4 comments about capitalization, i reject the oppressive rules of standardized language. so long as the other party understands me I have succeeded,.

There is a ton of research using rhesus monekys and other primates with EEG's, fMRI's, and lots of other cool invasive techniques that can't, ethically, be used on humans - like tracing white matter pathways. Comparative science is sort-of useful, but when we're dealing with specific brain structures, how useful is monkey data, especially when there are huge departures in functionality (ex. language).

Maybe monkey research isn't a complete waste of time, but it just doesn't seem all-that meaningful for humans and higher-order functions.

>>1789813
>implying monkeys dont have language.

>>1789820
>>1789820


>implying they do?

Pic related, it's you.

>>1789722
I am going to say no you do not. The level of function that we are discussing for this delta wave individual is not habitable. Baseline delta is very abnormal.

To put it in perspective, a serial killer's brain has very good alpha actiity in receptive parts of the brain - occipital cortex, auditory cortex, etc, has fine functioning in language centers, such as brokaw's area, but none of this synchronous activity in the prefrontal cortex, relating a relative lack of function in this structure. As the prefrontal cortex governs more for impulse control and emotional control as well as rational decision making, it is no wonder that these serial killers express no regret for what they have done - it comes naturally and they have no insight as to what control of emotions is; it is all more a flow of what they want to do

>>1789829
>Implying that I wear a monocle and drink coffee [tea??]

>>1789782
You're really humble too!

>>1789782
As I believe I stated before, IQ score can give you a rough idea of intelligence and should be used as such.. roughly.
rTMS allows me to change baseline neuronal firing activity, which is in turn reflected by the brainwave measure. If I come across with a sample patient that shows excess glucose metabolism with poor coherence (frontal/occipital), lack of neuronal synchrony or any number of brainwave behaviors that are not ideal, they can be addressed with TMS if the individual responds to the stim. Now, some may stand to gain more then others, which is why it is more practical for some more then others

>>1789813
EEG is noninvasive.
And the data is useful, but it still significantly lacks, as it is not us. There was a recent study that mapped a large number of neuronal pathways in monkey brain and it excited me, to be honest. Structurally, when we are talking about the organ, the monkey brain and human brain are similar. So we CAN stand to gain some understanding. The point is that there very much so is value there, although not as much as if we were to do the same things with human brains. By learning how a similar organ works, we can utilize strategies that come from concepts generated from the original understanding.

>>1789722 here,

would rTMS likely be helpful to me or no?

>>1789847
why thank you. i value modesty as an incredibly useful character trait :)

>>1789993

Explain how modesty is a valuable character trait.

>>1789993

Explain how you manage to be such a huge fag if you are really so intelligent.

>>1790024
I simply don't see the value in being modest or humble. If i have certain traits above average and they are relevant to the discussion there is no reason to hide information.

>>1790042

You didn't just contradict yourself?

You say you value modesty, yet you do not project that sense of value in your own personal action?

>>1790051
Sarcasm my friend, you must learn to read it.

>>1789847
>>1789993
>>1790013
>>1790024
>>1790042
>>1790051

Stop derailing the best thread on /sci/ right now.

>>1790068

>implying I'm not a sperglord

You must be able to effectively communicate with your audience. if not, your words are hollow, mean nothing, and have been time wasted.

>>1789927
You may stand to gain something from it, but the point I am trying to communicate is that you may not have as much to gain as someone with, say autism, or debilitating panic or depression or parkinsons etc. It really depends on an individual basis, and without looking at your EEG, I can't say for sure. You sound like you don't have any major problems

I'm currently a Senior in high school, and I was wondering if Neuroscience would be a good subject to major in once I'm in college. Did you major in Neuroscience? What kind of things do you learn, I would either be majoring in this, or Psychology, which I will most likely be more interested in, and get better grades in, but like I said, I don't know much about the subject. I plan to go into med school and specialize in Psychiatry. Would I do better majoring or minoring in Neuroscience than Psychology?

>>1790013
I got to where I am by being modest. If you can connect with people and not be a douche about it, you'd be suprised how far others can take you and where they can help you get.

>>1790093

In principle, social skills are irrelevant in the scientific world.

Assuming you don't work with patients and are able to actually communicate with others.

I find it enjoyable to subtly project and alleviate my esteem issues through lack of modesty.

>>1790092
I majored in biology, wanted to get a broader perspective. Sounds like a good plan.. to be honest might want to stay away from the psychology major - that's more for those who go after a PsyD degree.

>>1790105
Even in the 'scientific world' if you are a dick, nobody will want to work with you. I know an MD/PhD who was responsible for bringing in some millions of dollars of funding for projects, but then he let loose a bit, let his true colors show. Regardless of the fact that he was doing excellent work, all of his contracts were dropped as the pharm companies didn't want to work with a dick.
A large part of this world is networking.

>>1790140

You honestly think that intelligent people should be shunned and their work rejected just because of their social actions?

Why not just disregard all of Tesla's work?

How is that morally acceptable to you?

Those who don't regulate their emotions with logic are harmful to society. This is such a situation. Where one who may be beneficial to the human population is rejected due to tedium.

>>1790244
I'm not arguing with you. I'm stating fact here.
Take it up with the world if you want to.
People don't like working with dicks.

bump

Neuro, I want to become a neurologist; what might it take as far as education goes?
Like, what college majors and how many years.

>>1790777
Bumpin'.

>>1790244
>comparing himself to Tesla

>>1790140
>suggesting making money is the main concern one should have about the importance of a study

Please, stop derailing this thread. Or please, do so only if you've got another valuable topic.

btw, not tha guy you're arguing with

>>1790922
No, I was stating that people don't want to work with a dick.
>>1790804
You need a BS at the very least.. a BA in psych would be passable but you wouldn't understand quite as much. Everything above that line is acceptable. PhD, MD, or Masters all will allow you to practice neuroscience on some level. But to really get into it you need some experience - if you are trying to get into it on the lower end of the educational spectrum, you'll need a few years working in progressive neuroscience before you can catch up in terms of understanding to those with a higher education level then you. Of course your degree also limits what exactly you can do, but if you get creative then any of the above can allow you any number of opportunities :)

>>1790804
oh half-misread
A neurologist? MD in neurology. Get some science major, do well, and get an MD. Getting a masters in between is fine

>>1790922

I was merely using Tesla as an example, nitwit. There are plenty of antisocial people that actually do strong and valuable work for society and this shouldn't be disregarded because of frivolous factors such as peer acceptance on a purely social level.

You would disagree?

>>1791063
I think he is just saying you should make your own thread or just ask a question. I agree.