/sci/ - Science & Math

>>1692529
so, /sci/ any more creatures out there drastically evolving/changing before our eyes?

>other than microbes and humans

Is this a genetic or post-birth adaptation?

Have they tried moving egg-layers into the colder regions to see if they change their birthing methods?

charlie0
September 2, 2010, 10:06 a.m. ET

Dear Stoned Atheist. You are right. Science/Nature is a winner. And Christ is the Victor and He did finish it once and for all. You will find out in time; but by then it will be too late for you to do anything about it. You need to receive Christ now.

>first comment under article

holy shit these guys...
i can hear everyone who ever read that, crunch their teeth in rage

>this thread, no replies
>Science VS. Religion thread, 250 replies

>>1692578
>this thread
>20 minutes old

It's still morning in my time zone, anyways. Hell, it's even earlier for the rest of the US, which is most of /sci/'s traffic.

I think the article is cool. Fuck yeah, adaptation.

That... that THING in OP's pic looks thoroughly evil.

I'm pretty sure Satan crated it to test our faith.

>>1692578

new to 4chan are we?

>>1692577
That.. doesn't even make sense. What the fuck?
captcha: bancor ravaging

>>1692584
Damn Americans, post more shit's always empty at night in my timezone.

>>1692578
Look at the OP post, this IS a science versus religion thread. It's just being more subtle.

The problem with this "proof" of evolution is that it's an animal we have known of for centuries. Soon one educated creationist will do some research, realize that, and tout that as evolutionists being behind creationists when it comes to science.

>>1692602
It's not a proof of evolution, though. I mean, it could be, if some of these lizards used to have genes that supported egg-breeding but they died out because live-breeding is more advantageous, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It just seems like these lizards are wising up and going with live-breeding because it's better.

>>1692618
Give it time... a thousand years and the entire population of the species will be favoring live birth, and if we're lucky, in a million years the genes that made them lay eggs would be come inactive or even fade out... they might even develop to become better at live birth.

>>1692625
And then they will learn to walk the earth and all hope will be lost.

that's kinda hot.
I want that delicious, sinewy girth inside me.

>>1692618

... Wat?

This IS evolution. It's selective adaptation to a region where live-birthing is evidently better than egg-laying.

The question is, is this adaptation affected by temperature? Will a female lizard taken from one zone to the other and impregnated lay eggs/birth live young? Or is this a genetic adaptation that's specifically occurred in ONE group that others lack?

It's far more powerful a proof if the separated group loses the ability to efficiently return to its previous habitat.

science is rape

>>1692646
hey /d/. I didn't see you there.

>>1692587
yes... yes it is, HEIL SATAN!!! we evolutionist will do as you command, send us more proof so we can convert more people into the great religion of atheism so we can bask in your glory

We've already seen evolution in action with the E.Coli.

>>1692674
we've seen evolution in many animals
this is a good example because as many creationists except what they call micro evolution, they don't believe animals can change what they call ''kind'' this is a good case of something changing what it is in a drastic way.
of course whales being born with vestigial legs should be proof enough, but oh well

>>1692674
shitty microbe is shitty

i wanna see an elephant start laying eggs or snakes getting legs and other drastic and dramatic shit like that

>>1692688
my uncle was born with fully functional wings
but he was kidnapped by the god squad and it was hushed up

>>1692688
Wasn't there one snake four with legs?
Could of been bullshit though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChoaA9v0XoU

What the fuck?

>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/12/061220-virgin-dragons.html
>Lizard Christmas

>>1692716
evolutionist status
[ ] told
[X] FUCKING TOLD!

>>1692716

OMG guys. Ancient damsel fly is morphologically similar to modern damsel fly.

THIS DISPROVES EVOLUTION!!

There's no way that a lifeform suited to it's environment could remain RELATIVELY UNCHANGED for millions of years.

I'm converting to Hinduism. Only the intervention of deities can explain this.

>>1692741
Yes, there is something someone perceives as wrong with one of our theories, even though the theory actually explains it, therefore the theory is wrong.

Fuck Darwin.

>>1692716
>No Nobel prize in medicine has ever been awarded for work in evolutionary biology. In fact, I think it’s safe to say that the only contribution evolution has made to modern medicine is to take it down the horrific road of eugenics, which brought forced sterilization and bodily harm to many thousands of Americans in the early 1900s. That’s a contribution which has brought shame -- not advance -- to the medical field.

>>1692755
>theory of evolution
>brought shame to the medical field

ohshitniggerwhatareyoudoing.jpg

>>1692755
whether you like it or not, that statement is true.


>truth haters gon' hate

At first I was like who cares but I thought about it and this is pretty awesome!

>>1692766
>>1692755
interesting how the sunglasses dude
got doubles twice...
this must be god's doing.

>>1692716
This is a troll right?
Guys, it's a troll, right?
Right?

>>1692787
Unfortunately, Nephilimfree is not a troll

I don't care what kind of theology you do or don't prescribe to, this is just outright cool.

OPS lizard is fucking cute

such a cute little lizard guy! :3

>>1693043
the word you are looking for is "subscribe".

>>1693078
subscribe commend and rate pls :)

Goddamn can you people work on your typing?
I can't understand half the shit you're trying to convey.
>>1692529
Fuck yeah. I wonder if the amount of offspring has declined or increased with those pesky eggs being permab& from life...

ALSO, CHICKENS BETTER NOT GET THIS FUCKING TECHNOLOGY

inb4 its a serpent agent of satan

>>1693092

Oh fuck no.

Is This Enough To Prove Evolution?

>>1693129
evolution was proved decades ago... where were you?

>>1693070
its not a "cute little lizard guy". Its a pregnant female, cant you see from the eggs inside her?

>>1693066
Its not "cute", its the future of a species. the only of her kind, she is the Eve of all lizardkind.

somone need to have a picture of the god saying to satan he will forever slither on his belly and then a picture of that lizard with arms saying fuck you GOD

>>1693348
how about you do it?

evolution

The Tree of Life for Humans :

Homus maleus and Homus femalus
Homus male/femalus tallus and shortus
Homus red hair male tallus vs blonde vs brunette.

Genetic mutations happen all the time. That's my problem with evolution. Just because one has black feathers and the other brown, doesn't mean it is a different species.

>>1693612
alright, by your logic; chimps and humans are the same species,since its only a genetic mutation that makes us different

>>1693641
Maybe...
I don't think we can produce fertile offspring with chims though

>>1693653
*chimps

Pimps

>>1693653
And that's usually the basic qualifier for speciation.

If it can produce fertile offspring at least some of the time then it is more likely a subspecies.

>>1693612
That is quite plainly an issue to take up with taxonomy, not evolution.

>>1692686

>of course whales being born with vestigial legs should be proof enough

This is true. Fuck christfags.

seen them on discovery channel, i guess.

>>1696025
The discovery channel is a hostage prone place now.

>>1693545
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT

>>1696060

its another mavel of evolution

>>1696060

its another marvel of evolution

>>1696082

>>1692649
it has to do with epigenetics

their genome has infused both options (egg laying or live-birth) of gene expression and their phenotype is dependant to climate conditions

it's not something new, it has been observed to vipers and lizzards for quite a long time ago

>>1696098

>>1696112

>>1693653
because fused chromosome

>>1696117

>>1696123

>>1695451
systematics have made some serious shit rules about that subject (though there are always marginal cases)

it's just that stormfags get to abuse obsolete taxonomy to prove racial theories (about subspecies, racial superiority and shit) making it non-sensical

>>1696134

Holy fuck, I love nature. I've always loved it, but it's nice to be reminded just how awesome it is.

And fuck creationists, no one even pays attention to them outside of the two or three countries they infest.

>>1696160
Suuuure.

America has too much of a sphere of influence.

QUESTION:

This article seems to say that these lizards can choose to either lay eggs or give live birth, but are favoring live birth.

Doesn't really sound like a GENETIC change, and thus not really evolution. Could be environmental factors.

>>1696251
>Doesn't really sound like a GENETIC change, and thus not really evolution.

Bzzt. Evolution being only about the genes died as a reflection of our current knowledge circa 1940.

>>1696265
Sorry, good sir, but, I'm a Junior in college and I'm currently taking a class titled "Evolution" and my professor, who has a Ph D. in Evolution, stated the current definition of evolution to be "Change in gene frequencies over time."

Everything else is environmental caused bullshit that you don't get speciation out of.

>>1696275
Congratulations, you're going to a shitty college and should take a class called Genetics, where you'll learn that even genetics includes more than just genetic change, to say nothing of evolution as a whole. Also, wow, you're a junior in college? Talk about appeal to authority, kid. Jesus.

>>1696265
it's NOT a recent mutation

>>1696109

they incorporated both these phenotype options (ability to switch birth-mode) within the last few millions or maybe tens of millions of years

probably no significant mutation has occured to them within human history

>>1696285
>genetics is more than genes
>trollface.jpg

Nice try.

>>1696285
gene theory is proven to be largely incomplete

l2epigenetics

sidenote: many "contoversies" about evolution had occured because we were trying to rationilize natural selection through rigid and obsolete genetics

>>1696287
No, significant mutation has occurred to them within human history. Their phenotype simple hasn't changed because expression of the genes remains sameish enough for your standards.

>>1696305
You didn't read my post or you're an idiot. Probably both, but I'd bet the latter.

>>1696305
inb4: grammatical errors

(in my defence: not natural english speaker)

>>1696287
How can they say that it's evolutionary that these lizards are favoring live birth?

If they still have the option of both, it's clearly environmental. Anything could be making them favor live birth, such as, if they have a greater food supply to support offspring inside of them, temperature, etc.

Evolution isn't making them do this. They cannot say, at all, that this is the start of a new species.

>>1696310
>significant mutation has occurred to them within human history

I'll sound like a creationist now, but how can you tell?

Molecular clocks etc?

>>1696321
(I'm not the person you're talking to, but...)
I'd guess subtle changes, such as changes in limb/toe sizes, or tail length, or shape of skull, or something like that.

>>1696317
>They cannot say, at all, that this is the start of a new species.
it could be if the populations in different climates were isolated from each other, their local climate conditions remain the same respectively and gradually lose the option that is not necessary (as well as their ability to interbreed and produce ferile offsprings if they somehow meet again)

but that's deep-future scenario and pretty much a geuss

Evolutionist fag here, and I still have to say:

If there are no changes in genes, there is no evolution at work.

>>1696329
nah! reptiles tend to be morphologically conservative for millions of years, though it trully doesn't mean lack of mutations

as a matter of fact, according to wiki, the tuatara which is considered a "living fossil" due to extremely primitive morphology (almost identical to its mesozoic relatives) is proven to have the fastest rate of mutation within land vertebrates

>>1696321
>>1696329
>>1696341

All populations of sufficient size are accruing mutations because we don't have perfect genetic copying. You can't say the changes are insignificant, you can only say they aren't changing anything (most mutations are not harmful or so deleterious as to cause spontaneous abortion) because a direct gene changes:physical changes link is very, very rare, which is why evolution (and genetics, you ignorant cunts who don't understand how genes are expressed and regulated or why such concepts would be considered genetics) is much, much more than just genetic or more accurately allelic frequency shifts.

>>1696341
trololololololololololololol trolololol

>>1696366
aren't changing anything obvious, like skin color or the size of their dicks*

>>1696373
>implying evolution won't make every male in the year 3010 have at least 9 inch dicks

>>1696363

>reptiles tend to be morphologically conservative for millions of years

That suggests an efficiency of design.

>>1697072
you forgot to add
>trollface.jpeg

>>1697077

I'm sorry?

>>1697081
it's ok, just don't subtract again.

>>1697066
>implying status doesn't trump penis size in mate selection.
Spindly 5 inch jewcocks will continue to perpetuate themselves because bitches care about money more than dicks.

>>1697109
keep telling yourself that; baby dick