/sci/ - Science & Math

>I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Because theists raise children as theists while they're developing and then they grow up and do the same. Follow the pattern for several thousands 0f years and it becomes the standard and society favors the most abundant imaginary friend and isolates anyone that thinks differently. Mix this with thousands of churches, temples and mosques to reinforce the notion that people must believe this or be tormented, or that they'll be protected and be rewarded and you have enough positive reinforcement to make the impossible be believed, and make a profit off it as well.

>>1681613
To ruin Sci

GET YOUR ASS TO MARS!

>Please explain to me why religion still blights current society.
Because in this day and age, with all the knowledge we have gathered and scientific progress we have made humans are still humans - primates who barely even started, in terms of evolutionary time scale, organizing into complex social structures and valuing reason above emotions.
Religiousness, like any conviction that is untrue but held as true, is instilled via indoctrination that directly or indirectly manipulates human emotions to convince a mind capable of logical thought into believing nonsense, because that is the power of the now largely irrelevant part of our brains that helped us survive.

>>1681631
I wasn't raised by theists. Yet I have a curious mind. And I investigated reality. And I discovered that the universe has a creator. It's that simple.

I'm not going to argue it with you, I just encourage you to show more curiosity and skepticism for the world views that you are fed by authorities.

Natural Selection.

Dumbfuck religious people believe the herp derp about 'every sperm is sacred', have shitloads more kids and spread their batshit insane religious beliefs through society.

>>1681642
>implying skepticism means belief without evidence.
Do tell me how you investigated reality, because hundreds of thousands of scientists have investigated reality for much longer than you but have yet to discover anything pointing towards a 'creator'.

Because religion is persistent in poor and unwealthy countries. But science is only growing, while religion i shrinking. Not in absolute figures though. But let's give it some more time.

People like spirituality, even Sagan and Dawkins talk about the beauty of the universe. Philosophy should be taking over religion but it's seen as elitist as /sci/ likes to condescend to everyone.

>>1681613
It's quite simple: you don't have to understand something to benefit from it. You can drive a car while believing it's powered by fairies and gasoline is fairy food. You can get a flu vaccination while not believing in evolution and it will still protect you. You can protest against the evils of outsourcing while wearing clothes you bought at wal-mart.

The world thrives on the fruit of superior minds while it happily wallows in ignorance.

>>1681658
>Give it time

I have only one lifetime to give. With current scientific knowledge, this has been extended to about 80 or 90 years (up from the 30 year life expectancy).

I despair at the thought religion will still be ruining the world long after my life has passed.

>>1681653
That's not true at all. Newton found evidence for a creator. Pythagoras found evidence for a creator. Maxwell didn't talk a lot about it, but he believed in a creator.

Science doesn't have anything to do with metaphysical investigations. Science is specifically for investigating the physical world. The subject of God comes up more in metaphysical investigations, which is the subject I'm encouraging you to show more curiosity in.

Materialism is a comfortable philosophy, as it is a way of convincing yourself that there is little to learn. But if the goal is to become as acquainted with reality as possible, we should be comfortable with ignorance, for the sake of gaining what knowledge we can.

>>1681667
>Little to learn
>Universe full of things to understand

>Learn
>GODDIDIT

>>1681613
Not /sci/
GTFO
Rule violation reported.

Because religions are a trillion dollar business and pope hats are expensive, so you better convert some more sheep or you're going to hell my boy.

>>1681667
lol post this evidence of a creator then

>>1681667
What evidence? Citation fucking needed.

>Newton found evidence for a creator. Pythagoras found evidence for a creator. Maxwell didn't talk a lot about it, but he believed in a creator.

Saying that a scientist believed something is not indicative of the truth except to the minds of idiots. Newton believed in alchemy and phlogiston, Pythagoras held just as many flawed pre-scientific views as his contemporaries, and Maxwell believed a man named Jesus was an avatar from God who came to earth to save humanity from himself.

>>1681675
If you want Newton's or Pythagoras's views on this evidence, read it yourself. At least in the case of Newton there is no shortage at all of reading material.

http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php?id=1

people always need faith, it makes their lives more bearable and helps them deal with anything bad in their lives. hence it is more popular in poorer countries and is getting less and less prevalent in developed countries as quality of life increases

>>1681678
Newton DID find evidence of God in many common things. This facts refutes the prior claim by an ignoramous that no scientist has found anything pointing to a creator.

True, but sometimes, it just takes more time than one persons life to change something. The best we can do is try to make more progress with as well sience, as atheistic aspects of the universe. Teach our children the same. And let them do it as well. That's how religion did it.

>>1681667
>little to learn
Read a fucking physics book and say that. There's no evidence (need I define evidence) to suggest there's anything more than the natural physical world. There's an absurd amount we don't know but that doesn't mean we can fill in the blanks with whatever makes us happy, we can only fill them in with what is logically possible and supported with verifiable evidence. And listing a few scientists who dies hundreds of years before we even knew of other galaxies, red shift, natural selection, general relativity, and quite a few other important explanations doesn't help your case much.

When you think about it, you'd be pretty fucking insane if you weren't allowed to masturbate for fear of going to hell for all eternity.

I don't blame people in the past for being religious. If we hadn't verified the universe is flat, thus having zero total energy, and being able to arise from quantum fluctuations, people wouldn't have an answer for where the universe came from and why there's something instead of nothing.

Well, OP, religion has been around since the beginning of time. Science (as we know it) has only been around for maybe 100 years.

Science has a long ways to go before it is able to prove everything, as that is what it would take for science to overcome religion, because religion explains everything.

>>1681684
Ya know what else makes their lives more bearable?
Technology. Vaccinations. Sanitation. Electronics.

All a lot more useful than faith in some non interacting being who never physically helped anyone.

>>1681667
>Believing in god is very comfortable, as it is a way of convincing yourself that there is little to learn.

I noticed you made a small typo and took the liberty of correcting it, no need to thank me.

>>1681686
Newton DID find evidence of absolute space in many common things.

Oh wait, he was wrong about that though.

>>1681700

I see what you did there. 2/10

>>1681700
>prove

You can't PROVE anything, ever. Religion provides an explanation for nothing, just wild conjectures that have over time shrunk as science has eaten up all the blank spots on the map it used to hide.

>>1681701
For me, it is not about believing in what is more "bearable". I've only been concerned with believing what is true. Many other people who are religious proceed from the same motivation.

>>1681700
Right, about 6000 years ago. Religion was around then.

So remind me - how does religion explain the sonic boom of an airplane?

>>1681715

You sir, have been trolled.

>>1681715
Religion operates in the metaphysical, and science in the physical. There is no overlap or competing for territory, when both are practiced correctly.

>>1681718

You sir, are also trolled.

>>1681726

True, but one is gay and the other isn't.

>>1681732

Untrolled, wtg.

>>1681726
So how bout religion suppressing advances in stem cell research?
Denying Africans millions of condoms to help prevent transfer of aids?
The several wasted minutes every day I am forced to put up with religious people and theid shit?

All of these are physical. You remove religion from everything physical (ie Earth, the universe and time) and we wont bring up metaphysics. Deal.

>>1681726
Metaphysical = magical nonspace-time continuum where things happen all the time and it's true, but we just can't ever see it cause it's impossible, but we should still believe in these things.

>>1681740

That isn't religion doing that, it's the leaders of certain religious parties.

>>1681744
No.
We really need to put /sci/ in the 18+ section

Religion is like an obsolete computer. It served it's purpose answering life's tough questions, then a newer model (science) came out, now we have better answers, and the great thing is science won't become obsolete because it get software updates everyday.

>>1681740
Metaphysical considerations have impact on ethics, which in turn impact our behavior in the physical world. However, scientific considerations generally have no ethical implications, so there is no conflict between religion and science here.

There may of course be conflict between your ethics and someone elses ethics, but unless you want to ban ethics altogether, this will always be the case.

>>1681748
>That isn't religion doing that, it's the leaders of certain religious parties.
>That isn't religion doing that, it's religion.
>Herp de durp, I'm just as fucking stupid as those I defend.

>>1681744
Mathematics = magical nonspace-time continuum where things happen all the time and it's true, but we just can't ever see it cause it's impossible, but we should still believe in these things.

Explain how metaphysics is removed from science and stop going HURR DURR I KNOW MORE THAN YOU DO AND YOU'RE WRONG.

>>1681757

ITT: Idiots don't understand that if someone wants something done enough, they can find any number of reasons for it. Religion is just one of these tools.

Science has been used in the past for agendas too you absolute fucktard. It's the people behind the institutions that are the problem, not the institutions themselves.

>>1681759
Science is purely based on empiricism. Empiricism by definition is only deals with observation of the physical world.

>>1681760
lolwhyyoumadtho.jpg

>>1681758

>> Mathematics

>>1681764
So religion deal with what you can't observe. SO IF YOU CAN'T OBSERVE IT, WE'RE BACK AT SQUARE ONE WHERE RELIGION IS BULLSHIT BECAUSE IT'S JUST BASELESS CONJECTURE.

>1681758
>I be trolling cuz I don't knows that math is used in real world outside of skool.
Read some science journals retard

SCIENCE GET SOFTWARE UPDATE EVERYDAY!!!!

>>1681773
win

If god is real why do faggots exist?

I'm bed /sci/
Please keep this troll thread going till morning.
My faith in humanity will be slightly restored.

G'Night 4chan.

>>1681784
where do you live?

God cannot be proven to exist or not exist, hence "faith".

Gee, that's deep man.

The boogie man has never been proven not to exist, so I believe in the boogie man.

>>1681773
No, religion deals with a subset of the things that are not physical. Math deals with another subset. Just because things are not physical does not mean they are unobservable.

Captcha: 'rebuke,. everyone'

You got it, boss!

>>1681613 Waaaah! People disagree with my open minded worldview and I HATE THEM FOR IT! Waaaaaah!
>>1681631 Historical context.
>>1681637 Hey guys, what's up. Truth-man here, speaking only in truths.
>>1681640 Religion is bonkers and people who believe in it are bonkers! I am so fucking cool and shit.
>>1681642 Dude, I was like, so fucking high and, like, guys listen, God like, told me he existed and shit. so cash.
>>1681644 Christian Jocks beat me up in high school.
>>1681653 I'm going to try to be rational on /sci/, wish me luck!
>>1681658 Religion is for those unfortunate poor people, I'm writing this from the iPhone my parents bought me.
>>1681660 Maybe the /sci/ community will respond well to insightful observations? I'm going to give it a shot.
>>1681663 Black Boxes are Best Boxes
>>1681666 ...666... Hey guys, Satan here! Currently working on amassing my army of conspiratorially organized scientists, engineers, and atheists to do my bidding by lying about magnets to my arch enemy the God-Fearing Right-Voting Americans! (those European religious fundamentalist are trying, but they just don't have the political Hard Power the Yanks have, you know?)
>>1681667 Atheism is bonkers and people who believe in it are bonkers! I am so fucking cool and shit.
>>1681671 I am an incredibly awesome and suave motherfucker who is taking time out of my schedule which is no doubt filled with bitches who would gladly wade through a lake of their mother's period blood to receive a text from me asking them if they still have my copy of 'War and Peace' to do my duty for the /sci/ community by reporting this bullshit. (sir, I salute you)

copypasta'd from previous post (field too long) so links may not work.

>>1681672 lol capitalism
>>1681675
>>1681678 RAEG!
>>1681681
>>1681686 lulz
>>1681684
>>1681689 Hey! Insightful Observationfag here again, doing my thing, you guys listening?
>>1681690 I mad
>>1681697
>>1681698
>>1681700 Still making insightful observations, anyone? Discussion plz.
>>1681701 Therapy and Psychology is useless because I have a fucking iPhone! This is a reasonable argument!

>>1681791
So who has observed god in this so called metaphysical world?

I'm not even saying god does not exist.
My problem is DEVOUT christians will not look for him, because then they wouldn't have faith. Well... if you found him you wouldn't need "faith" AND you would have proof! But you need to have faith to get to heaven! See where I'm going with this; this would basically ruin the church. Circular medieval logic is circular.

>>1681800
the people in the white padded rooms.

>>1681800
What are you looking for, a comprehensive list? Lots of people.

two words
COGNITIVE DISSONANCE

it explains almost every stupid thing people do

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

>>1681801
Yes, I see where you're going with it. The problem is it doesn't explain what any Christian believes, to the best of my knowledge. You're trying to right people off as intellectually incurious to distract from the fact that you're being intellectually incurious.

>>1681806

How about one person who isn't:
A. Crazy
B. Profiting from donations
C. Dead

>>1681809

You believe what the church feeds you because you want to go to heaven, good sheep, gooooood sheep.

>>1681801
Yet I'm told because of the metaphysical bullshit, science doesn't belong and HERP DERP GOD EXISTS.

>>1681706 I am so superior to everyone on the planet. My mom tells me I'm so fucking cool.
>>1681712
>>1681715
>>1681717 Faith makes me ANGRY! I'M FUCKING MAD AT FAITH!
>>1681718 If Orville and Wilbur Wright are real then who was phone?
>>1681726 So does anyone else notice faith is only really a social problem when people are fundamentalist? No one? Am I alone here?
>>1681740 ALL RELIGION IS PROBLEM ALL THE TIME!
>>1681757 ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE FUNDAMENTALIST!
>>1681758 Fucking Mathematics, how do they work?
>>1681763 Concepts aren't evil, men are evil. If you'll excuse me, I'm late for intelligent people's club.
>>1681754 Hurr Durr, science replaces religion, HUUUUUURRRR
>>1681764 SCIENCE NEVER USES PROOFS OR MATHEMATICS, ONLY MEASUREMENT AND TABLES! I AM IN MIDDLE SCHOOL!
>>1681773 Look at me, I'm anti-religion, I'm so fucking edgy and cool, also people here agree with me so I must be right in feeling snobbish and superior! I have no reason to modify my worldview!

>>1681816

lolwut?

>>1681818

Actually, I think you're EXTREMELY MAD replying to 50+ posts

Psst... U mad?

>>1681818
>Check it out, I'm implying random shit because I'm a tripfag.

>>1681800 I have never been on LSD
>>1681801 The search for God is heretical.
>>1681814
>>1681816 ATHEISM FUCK YEAH!

Mr Hyde, U mad.

Mr Hyde, knowledge is heretical, you can be ex-communicated faggot. Remember Galileo, religion helped him tons right?

>>1681823
>>1681825

Dammit, you got me, I'm mad.

>>1681831

Yeah you are, and christianity is only going to get more phased out the older you get homo.

>>1681810
You want to study experience with the metaphysical world scientifically? Pick up volume one of the Journal of Near-Death Studies and keep reading until you get to the most recent volume.

If you just want everyday experience, talk to anyone who practices a religion, and they will probably be able to tell you of their experience with God or with the Tao or whatnot.

>>1681839

SURE DIDN'T NAME ANYONE DID YOU?

>>1681837
>christianity is only going to get more phased out the older you get homo.
That's true. For further details, see the Book of Revelation.

>>1681818
>I am so superior to everyone on the planet.

Well I'm glad somebody finally noticed.

>>1681839

A single first and last name please, don't dance around the answer.

>>1681845
Sigh. Okay, me. If you want famous people, I'm more familiar with dead ones than living ones.

>>1681807
wow. i know understand religion

>>1681830
Actually, I remember being rather impressed the church didn't kill him outright. I know it's backwards and medieval by our standards, but a corrupt church militant that didn't immediately murder one of the most dangerous heretics of the era made me feel a little better about humanity. Then I read about Lakewood Church and died a little inside.
>>1681837
Hopefully

>>1681857

NOT
A. Dead
B. Crazy
C. Profiting

>>1681846 Witty Retort
>>1681847
Glad I could help.
>>1681852 I don't put up with bullshit. (rock on)

>>1681613
You assume that God cannot prove his own existence. This is incorrect. Millions of people across the world have proven God exists for themselves through study and prayer. Knowing how God communicates with us is something you apparently know nothing about.

What surprises me is people so completely ignorant of religion can make sweeping claims that all of them must be false because they personally know nothing of God.

You'll discount me for some reason because you don't want to even try to find out for yourself. You'll say something like I'm deluding myself, or I'm stupid, or crazy. That's in fact your only defense toward people who claim to know God that each and every one of them must be stupid, or crazy, or liars.

It's pathetic really. It's really really sad.

.....hmm.....

I was hoping for more of a reaction guys.

Could you perhaps take more offense to my dismissal of your statements and make irrational and irate responses reflecting your emotional state? Do it soon, I'm kinda on a schedule here, so many threads to troll and so little time, you know.

>>1681870
>>1681870
>>1681870
>>1681870
This is what they actually believe
Also just because you can vaguely predict someones response doesn't mean its not true faggot.

>>1681839
HURF DURF MORE BASELESS SHIT
>>1681870
STRAWMAN MOTHERFUCKER

why ya'll so mad tho?

>>1681870
i'd like to sell you a car. no you can't see it, no you can't touch it.
see, i take your money now and after you die you can use it. you don't actually just rot in the ground, that's what fools think.
after you die you spend all eternity cruising in whatever car you by from me.
sounds legit!

>>1681889
>Hey /sci/, I'm a crappy troll, can you make me feel better about myself?

>>1681839
if you accept as evidence the anecdotal accounts of different people that believe in mutually exclusive claims, don't you also have to give the same treatment to any atheist claims of superiority?
if not, why?

>>1681852
Donald Knuth

also

Charles Townes
Ian Barbour
Freeman Dyson
Allan Sandage
Antonino Zichichi
John Polkinghorne
Owen Gingerich
John Houghton
R. J. Berry
Michał Heller
Ghillean Prance
Eric Priest
Henry F. Schaefer, III
Simon C. Morris
John D. Barrow
Denis Alexander
Christopher Isham
Martin Nowak
John Lennox

"I cannot understand why we idle discussing religion. If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality. The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination. It is quite understandable why primitive people, who were so much more exposed to the overpowering forces of nature than we are today, should have personified these forces in fear and trembling. But nowadays, when we understand so many natural processes, we have no need for such solutions. I can't for the life of me see how the postulate of an Almighty God helps us in any way. What I do see is that this assumption leads to such unproductive questions as why God allows so much misery and injustice, the exploitation of the poor by the rich and all the other horrors He might have prevented. If religion is still being taught, it is by no means because its ideas still convince us, but simply because some of us want to keep the lower classes quiet. Quiet people are much easier to govern than clamorous and dissatisfied ones. They are also much easier to exploit. Religion is a kind of opium that allows a nation to lull itself into wishful dreams and so forget the injustices that are being perpetrated against the people. Hence the close alliance between those two great political forces, the State and the Church. Both need the illusion that a kindly God rewards—in heaven if not on earth—all those who have not risen up against injustice, who have done their duty quietly and uncomplainingly. That is precisely why the honest assertion that God is a mere product of the human imagination is branded as the worst of all mortal sins."

>>1681915
What mutually exclusive claims are you talking about. The remarkable and detailed consistency of NDE descriptions across time, place, and culture is what makes them so compelling. Sort of the same thing that makes the existence of physical reality so compelling.

>>1681663
Yes, yes, indeed. Go on.

>>1681932
you don't think any two different religions don't make mutually exclusive claims?
>how was the earth made? what happens after you die? how do i be "good"?
i don't mind an intelligent trolling.

you seem to be saying that religion has value even though it's claims are false.
how is this different from saying that comfortable untruths are superior to uncomfortable truths? what responsibility should the willfully ignorant be held to?

>>1681932
You're the same guy who was spouting this bullshit in one of the other religion threads I started. Top class trolling bro, people are mad lol

lolol. witty.

>>1681973
i don't think just being vague is enough to make one a good troll. good trolls make outrageous claims that take serious effort to reveal as dumbassery.
lazy troll is lazy

I don't understand how - in this day and age, with the knowledge we have gathered and scientific progress we have made - people prefer to read about fucking celebrities than read about science.

Same shit, and probably illustrates better the issue at hand: humans are generally short-sighted, pleasure-driven morons, and science/knowledge is neither as readily accessible as religion or gossip, nor is it present in a format quite as enjoyable as either of those.

Scientific publications come out, what, once a month? some are quarterly, other's yearly, others even longer. You can get a new celebrity-gossip mag every day. You still wonder why science isn't a bigger part of people's lives?

>>1681613

It exists because of historical indoctrination. Grandparents indoctrinated parents who now indoctrinate kids. The material itself is for the most part innocuous unless a child is persuaded to believe supernatural things.

Also, intelligence has very little to do with religious belief. Religious belief bypasses the rational part of the brain.

Also, a lot of religions today are extremely watered down, there are few people who stick to the fundamentals of their religion because they are absurd. Thus, people who do try to stick to the fundamentals are marginalized and called extremists.

I also think we are hardwired to construct these grandiose explanations, these metaphysical theories of "everything". God is the ultimate theory of everything, even though it lacks parsimony and explanatory power.

>>1681968
So you're talking about conflicting claims of religion? There are some conflicting claims. There is also an amazing continuity across all religions: Reject the merely natural in favor of the spiritual -- reject possession, lust, glutton, vengeance, and pride in favor of reason, virtue, compassion, and generosity. Those things don't come from you but from something higher than you.

Is any given religion wrong in some things? Of course. Just like science, it is a human endeavor, which is often wrong. Just like science, the goal is to find and eliminate what is wrong so we can get closer to the truth. Do powerful organized religions become dogmatic, so they can't improve? Of course. But don't dismiss the dogmatism that is ever-present in science either. The enemy is the dogmatism that the human mind tends to, regardless of whether it shows up in science or religion.

>>1681919

Cool list bro, anyone famous please? I could invent fake people too, also, even if they're real I can dismiss them as Crazy, so don't bother.
U mad.

>>1682073
You don't know who Donald Fucking Knuth is?
GTFO of /sci/
The rest are famous scientists too, genius.

How i know you are underage? Because you made this thread

The fact that science is still very limited in describing our universe.

Seriously 1 million years into the future we are going to remember this age as completely stupid, both because religious fanatics, and stupid fucks like you that believe science has all the answers.

Sciences is limited by how we view the universe. Theres a lot of stuff going on that we cant perceive in this time scale, or not even with all our instruments.

God and Science pertain to completely different realms.

The faster you understand this, the less retarded you are going to look every time you open your mouth

>>1682062
new age faggotry is hella limp
>why can't we all be right?

i don't care about your 'feelings'.
ambiguity is not an argument. you have to make a claim nigger.

>>1682088
QFT

>>1682088

there are infinite things that can exist outside our perceivable universe. god as you understand it is just one of them

>>1682062
>Those things don't come from you but from something higher than you.

Horseshit. Each of those things is evolutionarily beneficial.

>>1682100
If it can't be perceived /yet/ but isn't impossible to do so eventually, then you're wrong to say it exists until we find evidence of it.
If it can't be perceived ever, it's not part of the universe and doesn't exist.

Furthermore, probably you will respect religion more, if you didnt take your info about it from fucking radicals that are more interested in power than actually spiritual development.

Every religion have their wings involving meditation and self contemplation. From east to west.

And sure a lot of religions -- specially in the west - are fucking corrupted or completely derail the whole purpose -- read evangelists -- but its very stupid to blame God just because this groups are the most popular and most stupid.

>>1682106

of course. as far as i can see, we are in agreement.

whats the point of this reply?

>>1682106
The universe generally refers to nature. Because we are not merely natural, but also spiritual, we can experience things that are outside nature and are spiritual, such as God.

>>1682106
>>1682100
>>1682098

God is not some white beared guy living in other dimension you stupid fuck. God is the force that set all the universal laws into play and created the universe, Then life, then consciousness.

We brag about our "scientific achievements" but the fact of the matter is that we cant describe shit accurately. Non-linear systems are out of the fucking question. Physics ignore these systems until 20-30 years ago. And these are the most common systems in the universe. Not fucking simple ones.

Biology is so fucking weak, we just can observe and document biological phenomena but we dont understand why it happens.

Intelligence? If you compare AI from the 60s-70s vs AI that is been developed today. its a fucking joke. theres no progress in that field either.

How the brain works? LOL no.

We know nothing about complex systems. is fucking sad.

>>1682115
i don't have a problem with god, he doesn't exist, what is there to have a problem with?
my problem is with religion as institution. it is the only place where a con artist can operate not only with impunity, but he can also demand respect.
this is because... it is completely unprovable. can i sell you medicine that i know doesn't work? not once the fda gets my ass.
suppose god is real, why not make your presence undeniable? why work through a proxy operating at the edge of society? why would an all powerful god need my money and devotion? why place me in the position of an ignorant and incomplete sheep?
i'm not addressing the trolls and talking to all the faggots on this board that push back at all this weak anti /sci/ faggotry. stop with the magical thinking and man the fuck up!

>>1682143

>God is the force that set all the universal laws into play and created the universe, Then life, then consciousness.

why do you assume there was a force that did all of those things?

>>1682143
[citation needed]

Sources, bro. Sources.

>>1682143
>God is not some white beared guy living in other dimension you stupid fuck. God is the force that set all the universal laws into play and created the universe, Then life, then consciousness.

No, God is a spoon in my kitchen. He is because I say so. The sooner you understand this the sooner you will realize how ridiculous your own statements are.

>>1682180

I know, fucking theist. They love to hide behind their "logics and arguments no longer apply" theory.

>>1681613
Because we are still just slightly smarter animals. Sentience is still very new to us, little more than a fad so far. Fear overrides our higher reasoning abilities very easily, if you never noticed, and modern religion is designed to keep people in a controlled state of constant fear, where they can be easily controlled by it's practitioners. Religion is just a system of control for a population; it's the same old story with different players: the few want to control the many.

Religion still exists for two reasons - it still provides a useful service, and science is relatively new. Religion provides a way for people in the community to hang out and get to know each other, and it provides a framework to fit into, so you can live a good life without needing to figure out on your own exactly what that entails. Of course it does have its dark side too, the fundamentalism and rejection of scientific fact. Science has only been powerful for the last 200 years or so, which is not enough time for culture to adapt to it. Society changes slowly, it takes generations.

>>1682143
You've been saying the most retarded shit ever. It exists but you can't perceive it? THEB WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME THESE THINGS? you must clearly be some divine being because somehow you know all these things without being able to perceive it.

Or maybe you're just spouting the same baseless conjecture. It's the very same reason as to why we rag on religion.

LOL trolls trolling trolls. There are no christfags in this thread, there may or may not be athiests, but you're all trolls trolling each other, like some pathetic circle-jerk.

1. If God doesn't exist, this discussion is stupid and pointless.
2. If God exists and doesn't give a shit about us, this discussion is stupid and pointless.
3. If God exists and actually interferes with mankind, he does so in a subtle manner that we can't percieve, and thus we can't do anything about this, and thus this discussion is stupid and pointless.

Conclusion: This discussion is stupid and pointless, disregard God and have a nice life.

>>1682224
>>1682179
>>1682174

looloololol

yeah i believe in that. Theres no "source" no "proof" thats the whole point you fucking retard. if you believe god is a spoon congrats for you. I make my own conclusions from my experiences and knowledge. I have a formation in sciences, and a inquisitive mind. I believe my understanding of God is as valid. as anyone else, including yours as a spoon, but believe that God is a spoon doesn't mean anything to me. Science doesn't have a say about the existence of God.

In that light, the statements ;
God doesn't exist because science cant observe him
God is a spoon
And my statement

have equal value for anyone. but i decide to pick mine.

But no one cares about what you believe, you know. Rational people try to know the truth, they don't make it up.

>>1682224
I came to that conclusion after observing and studying for a couple of years these complex non-linear systems:
Autopoiesis, Morphogenesis. Ecosystems, Consciousness, Biological Systems, Far-from Equilibrium Thermodynamics.

A lot of traits observed in these systems developed my theory of what God means for me.

If it doesnt work for you. No problem dude, that works for me.

>>1682333
THE TRUTH LOLOLOLOL.

Why retards believe that science is such a privileged activity.

Science so far has been excellent in describing Simple systems, Classic Newtonian Mechanics standing as the base of all of them.

too bad simple systems are special and not general :(

>>1682348
Well, science sticks to the truth. When scientists can't solve an issue, they say "we don't know", they don't make foolish assumptions to fill the blanks.

>>1682356
I don't think you're very familiar with how science works.

Thread TLDR, but...

See this? It's full of people.

There's even people who can't read. Can you imagine that? If he saw this, he 1) wouldn't understand what it says 2) wouldn't understand it was in english 3) wouldn't probably know what we're talking about, even if someone else told him.

This is obviously the other end of the spectrum, but we can still ask one question: how much scientific knowledge and experience do you think such a person could gain during his lifetime? Yeah.

Not everyone lives in a western country.

>>1682358
>hurr durr i'm a 16 year old internet tough guy

It gives brainless idiots who are not smart enough to find their own direction a chance to become part of a community and to be told what to do. It gives some preying 'Vicar' a chance to shepherd them like flock, controlling and manipulating them, getting a buzz from it at the same time.

rant over, Religion is simple: prey and obey, god made everything.
Science is complicated and hard to understand.

people fear what they don't understand.

>>1682356
Im not saying my statement is absolute truth. So far science havent proved or disproved the existence of God, and why bother?.. Science has some easier obstacles to navigate through before actually starting to answer serious questions.

My statement is a theory that i believe in. based in years of observing complex systems.

>>1682378
>people fear what they don't understand.
you mean, like religion.

>>1682387
>>1682348
>>1682319
So you made up a god. We're still at the point that you're spouting baseless conjecture.

>>1682389

now that you said it, yeah religion is complicated... why would anyone choose to believe in fairy tales? its beyond any possible reasoning. i'd rather keep clear of it and stick with my science, which actually brings to us tangible benefits.

"science flies us to the moon. religion flies us into buildings" - anon

>>1682402
made up?

you are implying theres something that is not made up. even our concept of gravity is made up. it has worked so far with our current models. but that doesn't mean our models are true. they are also made up

Now picture the same thing where science has nothing to say about it.

If you actually bother to read and understand what i already explain my made up God is as valid as Spoon God, Or God-doesnt-exist-no-evidence God from science.

>>1682441

>doesn't understand models based on observations

>doesn't understand that science and philosophy are different

Oh I get it, you're retarded.

Loads of apparently intelligent peeps fall fould of bad science, take a look at http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail?display=discussion&code=cotn:PXS.L&it=le and http://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?SharePrice=pxs&goButton=Go! to see how many assholes were conned into investing into a company with a miracle cure that no one wants

>>1682441
HEY ATHEISTS IF GRAVITY IS REAL THEN WHY IS NEWTON DEAD?

>>1682465

at first i was mad but then i grew fond of that meme, its awesome

>>1682424
Im sure the Japanese, Vietnamese. and any victim of modern chemical and nuclear warfare have to disagree with you.

Now from an ideology perspective, Nazis had scientific evidence that back up all their crazy theories.

Grow up kids, stop listening to fucking Dawkins for a second and think for yourselves.

It was my pleasure to write and defend my insights in this thread. Hope someone could appreciate what im doing for Highschoolers.

>>1682424
Men do crazy things, science just provides the tools
Men do crazy things, they use religon as an excuse

>>1682424
fruit flies like bananas

The most powerful influence in the religious community is the concept of afterlife.
Every theistic belief recorded in history has some sort of reference to a permanent existance after this one.
The reason that this idea is so prevelant is because it is in the nature of all species on this planet to continue living. Humans, thousands of years ago, had to deal with the realisation that existance here was not permanent, so when the concept of religion with a heaven came around, people were comforted and felt secure on an instinctual level, which is the most basic form of conditioning, and the most effective.

People are no less afraid of death than they were thousands of years ago, so the device is no less effective.

>>1682454
Your statement is so wrong at so many levels that even if i bother to explain why you wouldnt understand. you made wrong assumptions from wrong assumptions.

>>1682450
observation is a limited way of gathering information. i.e Encoding from the environment, Decoding from formal systems.


Ok thats it ciao.

>>1682476
Oh my Dawkins, the pretentiousness... it exhales from your body... you're such a smartass with great knowledge of everything. I'm sure there is no highscooler in /sci/ there are only people calling other people highscoolers and vice versa. Stay classy, /sci/. Sometimes you're even as pretentious as /lit/.

You did it /sci/

I am proud.

>>1682487
Um, that's not true at all. Many religions don't believe in an afterlife at all, such as much of Judaism and eastern religions. It makes them no less religious at all for it. You don't need to believe in an afterlife to not fear death. It is a completely irrational fear that features prominently in completely irrational people.

>>1681667
Newton was in a cult and thought the world would end in <span class="math">2060^{1}[/spoiler]

Pythagoras had his own cult, and drowned one of his students<span class="math">.^{2}[/spoiler]

Maxwell was religious, I agree. He seems remarkably normal for a notable religious scientist.

you could have used much better examples though, like the man who ran the HGP, James Watson.

>>1681791
if it's observable, why the fuck can't science observe it (and why don't scientists either?)

>>1683358
I forgot to citation, whoops.

1.http://www.isaac-newton.org/update.html
2.http://clublet.com/why?PythagoreanCult