/sci/ - Science & Math

>Keep livestock
>Have them reproduce
>slaughter part of population periodically
>PROFIT
do it the same way we've done it for thousands of years

Plants need lighting and air and nutrients.
Lighting is the hardest part. You'd either need a skylight, generators (which require stored gas/coal), or geothermal energy.
Air is easy; that's what the people are for.
Nutrients is also easy; just fertilize them with your waste and practice crop rotation.

Meat is hard, but you could keep chickens well enough. They don't require much space or food. On the whole, however, you'd be better off looking at healthy diets for vegetarians and just using those plants.

Traditional agriculture doesn't work underground, so think about something else. Guinea pigs are supposedly delicious, they're small and breed quick so you can keep stocks down temporarily. They also eat cellulose, so you can feed them just about anything

>>1667827

That is obvious, and sorry, thinking about my previous arguments why that didn't sound as easy as it is, they are kind of stupid.

Still, back to vegetables.

>>1667820
you don't need to be 500m underground to survive a nuke, especially if it's an air burst.

>>1667829

Geothermal power would be an ideal, Wikipedia's diagram says geothermal power plants usually take the energy at depths of 600 meters, the bunker would be at that depth. (Ideal for protection agains't nuclear bunker busters)

Although, can geothermal energy provide enough power for a whole bunker?

Looking at it, this wouldn't be a relatively small bunker, it'd have a kitchen, living quarters, zoo, arboretum, storage rooms, etcetra.

>>1667866

Nuclear Bunker Busters, although really unreliable, you never know what would hit.

>>1667846

Well, indoor agriculture works, why wouldn't underground work?

>>1667876
There's no practical limit to the amount of energy you can get to geothermal. You just need to make your collection area larger.

Also, you shouldn't be using too much energy in this bunker of yours. Lighting for the plants and people, but not much else.

In such an environment the best form of protein would be insects. Damn near an inexhaustible food source. Insects can also help solve world hunger, then again, if everyone went vegetarian, there would be no food shortages. (Which I say as I eat my burger)

rabbits are pretty easy, though you would need alot of plants both as food and as air filtration. Geothermal power is your best bet because 700 ft down will have plenty especially if the drill a well even further down from that. You could probably get your water from a deep aquifer because no matter what happens on the surface it is not likely to get contaminated. My town uses water that is more than 20000 years old because that is how long it takes for water to percolate down. Anyway, fish, rabbits, mice, chickens, and minx (for both meat and pretty fur blankets.

>>1667888

Thanks,

And yes, energy saving is my top priority, so the amounts last as long as needed.

If they use geothermal/nuclear/fuel energy where the heat produced will be dispersed?

Just produce extra children and consume most of them for meat.

>>1667891
On the other hand a healthy vegetarian diet need a lot of variety that can't be found in local products only. This means that they will need food that was produced somewhere else and was transported to them instead of eating a bug raised nearby.

Also, for humans, bugs protein isn't as good as biger animals protein.

I'm curious about this. Are you designing it as in, "coming up with how it would work", or are you actually making blueprints as to how it would look?
I think I'll do something like this. Maybe I'll make a blueprint for a generation ship.

>>1667897
In steam vents. The entire colony will look like Blade Runner.

>>1667893
Hasn't heard of Rabbit starvation.

>>1667919

Coming up how it would work, and if I generally get a good enough of an idea, I'll create it in Google Sketchup.

>>1667933
Don't use SketchUp. CAD software is for faggots. Do it old school: draw it.

>>1667911

>Also, for humans, bugs protein isn't as good as biger animals protein.

Studies have shown people of different cultural/ethnic backgrounds digest virtually all forms of food differently and absorb astoundingly varied amounts of the various nutrients required. I recall reading several papers on this matter and could go further in to detail. although I fear I may misrepresent the facts rather shit-tastically. Gimme a sec to look for the papers. Very interesting shit, indeed.

>>1667928
he's talking about meat as a means of keeping the population happy, and not as the primary means of substinance.

>>1667939

I'm not really much of a drawer, so that'd be more of a sketch then a blueprint of sorts.

How many people are going to live in this bunker. I would suggest 1 male and 15 breeding females. Your kids will have to inbreed causing significant birth defects, but the likelihood of a good genetic mutation increases as well.

>>1667951
That's why you use tools, like T-Squares, compasses, etc.

>>1667957

That will be decided later on, after I roughly get the size and amount of resources available.

>>1667940
I mean, the proportion of aminoacids in insects isn't right for humans.

>>1667957
I like the sound of that

Well, thanks for the help guys, although I gotta go to sleep in 20 minutes, I'll keep reading this thread 'till then, writing it all down.

Gonna make another one tomorrow, so we can continue.

>>1667989

>writing it all down.

The fuck? Ctrl + A -> Notepad -> Ctrl + V.
You can always get your scribe on later.

>>1668008

Should be a Ctrl + C in there somewhere.......

>>1667866

Air bursts are mean but they sure don't last for longer than a few minutes of radiation and an EMP wave. 50 feet under ground is good enough unless he plans on surviving a direct nuke drop right on top of him.

Also OP, if you're going to build and underground bunker, find a way to make a lot of space for yourself count. Also, if you're going to have cattle, you can use the shit for methane powered generators. Remember, for all the things one could possibly need, from food to soap, a person needs 5 acres distributed for it each.

You can make soap from animal fat and acorn tops. Use chickens a lot. Have a good set of cows with a floor dedicated to them in a space of about 10-15 per acre you give them, which will be more than enough shit to power a 40 story office building if air conditioning isn't the biggest priority. Those things shit a lot man. Give 3 acres to plant growth. The last one should be spend towards pigs, housing, and a work shop. Pigs don't need much room.

>>1668008

Copy pasted, incase I need it, but I wrote the important stuff on paper.

i was planning on an array of growing lamps (btw, no plants = no livestock) with a high output gas generator.

Also, 500 meters is not neccesary, maybe 100.

look up Aquaponics, a method of combining raising fish in tanks with hydroponics, the waste from the fish fertilize the plants, letting you grow both is a tighter space.

>>1667820

>>1667957
And them the woman unite and take the power making all males slaves... at least they will still need us to procriate...

>>1668040
Also, aquatic plantas/algae as source of food!

>>1668054
And that would be different from now in what way/s?

>>1668043
I lawl'd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat
I think this is EXACTLY what you're looking for.

Thanks for everything, I'm going to sleep now.

If this thread is not alive in 8 horus, I'm gonna make one around the same time as today.

G'night /sci/.

>>1668079
I hope you like jellyfish meat...

>>1668122
MAYBE I DO FUCKER

>>1668079
That doesn't seems like a viable choice...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat#Differences_from_conventional_meat

guineapigs and chicken seems like better bets.

>>1668128
Hey! Why are you angry? I want to try it too!

>>1668122
I'm so glad white people think jellyfish is disgusting. More for me!

>>1668244
see
>>1668137
I never said it looks disgusting. I just said that artificial meat wouldn't be the same as real meat.

OP here,

Wow, I didn't expect this to last over night.

But yeah, I'm back.

You all gave me lot's of great stuff last night, and the research part is almost finished, I just need to make a sketch.

>>1668079

>Unnatural and therefore wrong.

RAGE!

Anything warm blooded as a supply of food is simply a waste in that kind of situation. Warm blooded animals have to eat constantly in order to maintain a body temperature, fish is where it's at.

>>1669875

I know this, and fish is already one of my main food sources.

Can be brought up indoors, and not too hard.

Algae is a good source of food as well with many of the nutrients and vitamins people need and it doesn't require much to grow, the biggest problem would ofcourse be to set-up a place to grow the stuff in sufficient amounts. Some mushrooms however would be easier to do, nice source of nutrition and a good chance to recycle some waste material without much equipment.

And if all else fails, you'll always have a healthy supply of fresh humans.

>>1669890
only get one source of red meat. Don't get pigs. Use fish and chicken for the most part

bump for being interesting

>>1667957
Not immediately, unless the male is already a carrier for some genetic disease. 16 people is a miniscule bottleneck though.
Also, inbreeding doesn't cause mutations you dumb fuck.

>>1668054
You are now aware that unequal sex ratios cannot be sustained for more than one generation.

>>1670058

you are now aware that that only counts if you don't allow breeding among the different generations. poor choice imo.

Pretending i'm in charge of the whole project...

I do pretty much everything with aquaponics (growing fish and plants together, the plants are fertilised by nutrients from fish poo and the plants filter the water to be clean enough for the fishes.) So i produce the vegetables and some more expensive variety of fish in one farm.

Then to grow grains- people want bread, rice etc- i have a larger aquaponic farm with common table fish like trout or something would work well, and my grains.

then for my animals, another farm with common eating fish, and grass or whatever for livestock to eat. And so the animals eat the grass, and everyone has lots of decent food.

Oh and i also grow chickens by feeding them insects i allow to breed in the fish water.

>>1670102
Fish eat insect...
But you can let them eat the parts of the plants that humans don't want to eat.

>>1669856
The problem is not for it being unnaturan, the problem is that it is expensive! You need growt hormones to keep animal tissue living and that is expensive! You also need a lot of antibiotics because you have a piece of living meat without a immune system. And you also need purified nutrients. Living animals evolved for billions of years to be efficient. The only reason to use in vitro meat is because you think it is better because it has no nervous system and therefore doesn't feel pain.

It probably takes less space to just buy the food and store it, than trying to grow it. Canned food + multivitamins should be enough.
Unless you are planning for hundreds of years which is pretty unreasonable.

It takes 1 hectare land to grow 5000kg rice, you can harvest 3 times a year if the conditions are ideal. With a 2m high roof it takes 20000m3 space to grow 15000kg rice a year. Storing that takes up around 17m3 space. By this calculation it would take more then 1000 years before its economical to grow your food rather than store it.

You do realize there are a lot of scientists working on the exact same problems for long term space exploration, right OP?