/sci/ - Science & Math

Anon, we've been over this.

We try all other options first. Turns out there are stem cells in your bone marrow.

Then you get your babies.

>>1645049
... but seriously though, we need those dead babies to do research.

all my rage...

as a woman I would donate any and all eggs needed to make dead zygote-babies. I don't consider this pre-emptive abortions.

god damn, they're not even alive. Since when does the US give a shit about the potential of things or what they could turn into- rather than the actual value of something?

>>1645101
>Since when does the US give a shit about the potential of things or what they could turn into- rather than the actual value of something?
Since religion took over.

>>1645101
Zygotes aren't alive? If they're not alive, they're not going to be any use for testing.

It is against the law to destroy human embryos for research, it has been this way for 15 years. It is not the president's place to "lift restrictions", he cannot nullify law. If people want to change this, and I would support it,change the law.

>>1645041


ITT retards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnsLFVGOU4Y

China here, feels good man.

>>1645170
ITT: people who don't understand the difference between applied research and fundamental research. You are implying that fundamental research has any chance of finding funds other than funding by the government.

>>1645174
Where are you going to steal all your research now?

>>1645216

OH LORDY LORD

Yes, the free market never researches such a thing. loloolololoololololololololololo.


gtfo troll

>>1645241
That's fucking right. If there is no direct commercial benefit no one will invest, you cunt. Why invest if you can have others lay the ground work and reap the benefits by investing in applied research yourself? There's no patent on fundamental knowledge.

>>1645101
>Since when does the US give a shit about the potential of things or what they could turn into- rather than the actual value of something?
They care about you until you are born, then you are on your own, until you turn 18 and can go and die for them in some useless war.

>>1645241
Instead they just buy and patent university research. Oh the innovation of the free market, taking and profiting someone else's work.

>>1645248


You completely embarrassed earlier and think anyone will take you're post seriously? GTFO. There is already enough trolls here on sci. You know you're wrong. If companies have have reached the cap of applied science with the current knowledge of pure research then they will have to engage in pure research.

Here is a video simple enough for you to understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH0QLIO85BI

>>1645263

OMG in capitalism people sell patents. What an oppressive system. Amrighte?

>>1645101

>as an unattractive and fat woman I would donate any and all eggs

Fixed your post.

>>1645263
Jesus fucking Christ, I do fundamental research myself you ass-hat.

>If companies have have reached the cap of applied science with the current knowledge of pure research then they will have to engage in pure research.
The emphasis will lie on the profitability of the end product. Knowledge in itself is not profitable. How many companies invest in fundamental research now? The fact that there is also government funding doesn't change the fact that companies still have the ability to invest... If (as the person in the video claims) companies will invest in pure research because it leads to the most profitable innovations, WHY THE FUCK DON'T THEY DO SO? I have never received an offer or have heard from any of my colleges that they received funds from a corporation. The only people who accept research proposals that generate just knowledge are government funded institutions. That's just how it works in my country.

WHY IS MURIKA THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT SEEMS TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL SCIENTIFIC PROGRESS?! IS NOOTHER COUNTRY CAPABLE OF DOING THIS RESEARCH THESELVES, HOW DARE YOU BRITFAGS CONDEMN US WITHOUT PICKING UP THE SLACK!

>>1645304
>WHY IS MURIKA THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT SEEMS TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL SCIENTIFIC PROGRESS?!
Biased media.

>>1645316

you missed the point of the post.

rest of the world, are you even trying? (srsly?)

>>1645293

I guess you're not an americanfag. So the extortion racket has completely co-opted universities in your country? If free people aren't doing pure research its because your country's extortion racket has co-opted all the researching sources.

The first video I showed the more governments spend money on science the more it hurts science. Its simple economics. And since science increases the well being of a society the more governments fund science the more governments hurts the society.

Its 5:00 am here so goodnight.

>>1645253

George Carlin is that you?

>>1645326
what kind of libertarian crap is that again?!

>>1645326
>I guess you're not an americanfag. So the extortion racket has completely co-opted universities in your country? If free people aren't doing pure research its because your country's extortion racket has co-opted all the researching sources.
Bullshit. Companies pay more than universities do. They just won't fund fundamental research because it's not profitable.

>The first video I showed the more governments spend money on science the more it hurts science. Its simple economics. And since science increases the well being of a society the more governments fund science the more governments hurts the society.
Again: the first video doesn't differentiate between fundamental and applied research.
>Its 5:00 am here so goodnight.
I guess you're not an American either?

>>1645352

He posted videos. Go refute them.

>>1645369
I certainly hope that was ironic...

>>1645364

Really??? You are this fucking stupid? Knowledge isn't profitable? GTFO already!!! For you to not see that knowledge isn't profitable means you have to be retarded.


This is my last fucking response.

Ok man the first video was a part of a series there is no way you watched them all. I don't remember if he gets into applied research vs pure research.

The pure research and applied research is mutually exclusive. Its hard not to engage in pure research when doing applied research.

If you are making the argument that free people won't engage in research ONLY for knowledge that is bullshit. People do and people will.

I live in california, so yes I am American. FUCK. I ain't doing anymore responses.

>>1645404
protip: free people =/= free market

stop playing with words your libertarded freak

The law is the law.

Even when the law is stupid, the administration can't just violate it. He needs to work with congress to change the law, then put the funding back.

America is about to economically collapse. Who gives a shit anymore?

>US economy collapses
>moot becomes pov and cannot pay bandwidth bill and to keep servers up
>4chan goes offline

OH SHIT

>>1645404
>Really??? You are this fucking stupid? Knowledge isn't profitable? GTFO already!!! For you to not see that knowledge isn't profitable means you have to be retarded.
That's right, knowledge in itself isn't profitable. No application means no patent means no profit. Some knowledge does lead to profitable applications however, but the vast, and I mean VAST majority of fundamental research doesn't within at least a century.

Try and convince a company to fund your research for cellular mechanisms in the dentate gyrus of wakeful rats during spatial orienting, or the spectral analysis of the Fornax galaxy cluster. Do you think companies would want to invest anything into a project as big and risky as the LHC? The don't and they won't.

>>1645352
the usual

the shit that the only freedom worth the name mean the freedom of him doing whatever the fuck he wants in pursuit of monies

Come on, post-scarcity! I want to see the faces of the moneymongers when their purported great fortunes turn out to be about as valuable as the numbers that present them.

no wonder he wants to stop research on stem cells, he looks like one himself

Goddamn bureaucracies.

>>1645434
This is probably why a lot of scientists are left-leaning. They know that the free market has little place for them. I am strongly conservative, but I certainly appreciate the role of government for the sciences, such as CERN and space programs.

What the fuck am I supposed to do with all these dead babies now?

>>1645481
OM NOM NOM NOM

>>1645326
HURRR DURRR GOVEMENT BAD

>>1645498
babies have a lot of cholesterol, and besides there is not a whole lot of meat on them (even American babies)

>>1645537
Well I guess you could always extract tasty tasty lard. Should fetch a fair price.

>>1645481
What CAN'T you do with dead babies!!

You can make REALLY soft leather gloves from them!
Cute pink leather wallets for girls!
You can string them up in trees as bait for carrion eaters, which will, in turn, scare away any birds that might attack your crops!

You can use them as tuna-analogue in sashimi!
You can stuff them and dress them in funny costumes for use as lawn ornaments!
Treated properly, babyskin makes for a great alternative shammy for giving car that final polish!

In an emergency, a dead baby can even be used for self-defense! Just tear open that cute widdle tummy, drag out some intestine and use it as a garrote, a nunchuk, or a even a morning-star, if you have some nails you can pound into the baby!

>>1645498
You are fucking disgusting. If you knew how good fresh dead baby tasted, you wouldn't joke about eating that stale shit.

Fuck you OP
the world doesn't need a dead fetus factory
Make some synthetic stem cells or something

we should be researching immortal robot bodies anyway

>>1645597
>the world doesn't need a dead fetus factory
>dead fetus factory
>christian woman
>the world doesn't need a christian woman

>>1645597
>implying stem cells used for research are manufactured for research.
Only left-over embryos that aren't used for IVF treatments are used in research you retard.

>>1645583
I don't know whether to lol or cry in fear

>Obama’s order allowed research on cells derived from embryos that would otherwise be disposed of after in vitro fertilization procedures. Lamberth said the administration was attempting to separate the derivation of the embryonic stem cells from research on them, and “the two cannot be separated.”

Why can't we just privately fund it?

>>1645631
Just imagine that I was joking. That usually makes it easier for people.

>>1645645
I thought it was illegal no matter how it's funded. But if not, its expensive and bad PR for any company that is looking to profit from "dead baby" research because 'merica is full of christfags.

>>1645660
... or so I assume.

can't we use monkey embryos stemcells or something?

>>1645668
And kill all these embyos in vain? Are you NUTS!!!

>>1645645
read above discussion

>>1645668
Than we'd have to specially manufacture embryos for research purposes. Why not use left over IVF embryo's that are going to go into the trash basked anyway?

> judge complies with laws
> teenage fags on the internet rage

>>1645660
So why doesn't Bill Gates dump a mill on it?

>>1645709
Enjoy your retarded laws. I thought the US was supposed to be secular in government.

>>1645739
>in god we trust

>>1645709
>didn't read the thread

>>1645739
It's awesome how the 18-22yo crowd talks so much shit but then somehow fails to turn up at voting booths.

>>1645753
We need an internet based voting system. Too bad it won't happen for 100 years.

>>1645753
I'm not from the US and always vote; your argument is invalid.

>>1645755
the internet will be over in 7 years, everything has been done to death and its fucking BORRRRRRRIINNNNNGGGG

>>1645755
Yeah then 4chan would be able to hack elections

>>1645767
MOOT FOR PRESIDENT

Fact: Stem cell research murders babies.

Fact: All babies are assholes (try watching a movie or riding in a plane with one).

Fact: Stem cell research murders assholes.

>>1645769
He'd make three appearances in 4 years, but those days would be celebrated as national holidays forever. Also the banhammer could solve a lot of our immigration and criminal justice issues.

Instead of expensive trials for petty offenses, you just get banned to jail for a few days or weeks with no internet access (watch out for the permaban though).

>>1645769
Shit, I'd immigrate just for a chance to vote for m00t!

Here's the problem I see with the whole "if the government stopped funding pure research, corporations would be forced to do it" argument:
If corporations were doing it, EACH corporate entity would have to do the pure research. It wouldn't be shared. That's a lot of wasted, repeated effort, and the company STILL has to do the applied research afterward.

Pure research is unlike applied research, in that applied research is good for one application (duh). Pure research is good for a bevy of applications. Ergo, doing pure research opens up the ability to do tons of applied research, whereas the reverse is not true. It's therefore best for a single, open entity to perform that research.

>>1645814
that actually makes a lot of sense

>>1645702
>Why not use left over IVF embryo's that are going to go into the trash basked anyway?
Because opponents of embryonic stem cell research are irrational fucktards who can't see the hypocrisy involved in supporting fertility practices that destroy countless more embryos than scientific research would.

>>1645702
Because once you get the ball rolling it will not stop until it gets to the bottom.

>>1645844
>mfw slippery slope fallacy

>>1645844
once my balls get going, i know i never stop until i hit bottom if you know what i mean hahaha am i right???!

...

actually i've never touched a woman T_T

>>1645913
Don't worry, someday you will know the caress of a beautiful woman.

>>1645814
While I agree that the government should fund fundamental research, I see a bit of a problem here:
>and the company STILL has to do the applied research afterward.
That's not entirely true since a company can just copy (or reverse engineer) an end product made by another company, without having to do the initial fundamental research.

>>1645968
>Don't worry, someday you will know the caress of a beautiful whale
fixed

Who cares... It's not like any of you are doing research anyway

>>1645978
but don't worry, we can give it a human-sized vagina by using stem cells, oh, wait...

Didn't read the whole thread, can someone recap?

By the way, what's the debate? Is there even one?

Abortions and stem-cell research should be legal, it's not fucking human life yet, it's cells forming to be human life. By the retarded conservative logic, it should be illegal to masturbate, you're killing thousands of potential humans.

Also, making abortion illegal is stupid. Dumb street thugs who got pregnant yet are smart enough to know they can't care for a baby get abortions (rape, anyone?), imagine what it would be like if they couldn't? If they keep the baby, they will ruin their own potential life. If they send the baby away to a foster home, they will feel guilt, and the baby will have a fucking terrible and miserable life even as he grows up (90% of them do).

>>1645978
Some guys prefer larger women.

>>1646049
The debate is pretty much over. There was one discussion about if science should be funded by the government or by the private sector. There were also a few comments about alternatives to embryonic stem cell research.

Abortion wasn't even mentioned in the thread.

I love how someone actually said potential isn't value XD

>>1646049
My thoughts exactly. I don't see how it's possible to NOT think like that.

You see, OP, America has already found what it's needed to find through what research we did have.

We can now create fully operational human embryos via nano machines, or factories. The law is now in place to keep competing companies from doing research and from universities from acquiring more knowledge.

So if you're pissed because you are no longer allowed to study, it's alright because someone out there already knows what you're working on figuring out. Sucks for you, I guess.

If you're pissed because you think America is backtracking, we aren't. We just know all there is to know about it and don't want people getting use to the destruction of embryos to find out what we already know.

brootish

>>1646065
alright than

>>1646062
Derp a derp.

>>1646065
If you're not a troll you're a fucking retard. And probably both.

Damn, you're fucking retarded. Embryonic stem cells have only succeeded in giving their recipients cancer.
Currently the only type of stem cells that have any proven therapeutic potential are ADULT stem cells. Go choke on your Kool-Aid.

>>1646082
6/10 for thinking you know more about science than scientists

I guess this was found just in time:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100822150643.htm

>>1646082
>Embryonic stem cells have only succeeded in giving their recipients cancer.
[citation needed]

http://conservapedia.com/Pro-life
>we trust

>>1646118
die in a fire

>>1646130

fuck geometry.

>>1646140
what the hell kid

>>1646140
easy now, i know we are all riled up because of the baby-killers but seriously none of us would be here if columbus hadn't discovered geography

I read half the thread before I realized it was about stem cells, not steam cells. ;_;

>>1646313
why didn't you read the link in the OP?

>>1646330
I was trying to get the gist of it from people's replies. That's how I get all my news.

>>1646334
well apparently it's not very effective...

>>1646339
I would say that the diminished accuracy is offset by the speed of the information.

>>1645041
Women should stop having their periods, too!

amirite?

>>1646374
that's up to them

>>1646379
lol yeah let's start letting women make their own decisions

no way that'll end in disaster

>>1646384
>virgin

>>1645446
>implying free-lance scientists that will try to introduce technology for a post-scarcity leap of humanity will not be found floating under some bridge

>>1646524
how the hell is he implying that

>>1646542
He's saying that if anyone seeks to release humanity like producing post-scarcity, they will be stepped on by the ones wanting to keep their power.

I think if some scientist manages to produce a working sentient, or semi-sentient nanoswarm, any assassins would get a nasty surprise.

>>1646977
wat.

seriously, wat.

>>1646977

An engineer in his natural habitat.

Fascinating.

>>1647027
OPEN YOUR EYES
I SEE YOUR EYES ARE OPEN

>>1646977
>>1647042
Great Scott!

>>1646580
>I think if some scientist manages to produce a working sentient, or semi-sentient nanoswarm, any assassins would get a nasty surprise.

can the be programmed for tentacle raep?

>>1646977
<3 <3 <3

>>1647052
>for testicle reap
for what?

>>1647052
only if the scientist happens to be one of us

if it was me, I'd see it was implemented in V.00.002
(V.00.001 had a nasty propensity for unsanctioned excarnation)