/sci/ - Science & Math

>>16086258
Name a single successful vegan mathematician

>>16086259
Bait

This explains India

>>16086273
vegans btfo by the resident /sci/zo

>>16086258
Yes. We have been over this. Vegetarians can get away via eggs, milk, and cheese. Vegans are fucked unless they use the loophole of semen and breast milk.

>>16086258
Is this based on what theory?
What essential animal product cant be sourced from plants or from chemical synthesis?
Vitamin B12? The same thats sold in every pharmacy?
Minerals?
All aminoacids from animal protein exist in plant protein.
Some animal fat? Thats it?

>>16086258
Yes it's interesting how the societies that eat the least meat end up the most buglike, weak and deformed.

>>16086811
funnily enough it also correlates with the concentration of large nosed individuals in a country. No idea why really. It must be because of yt pip

>>16086258
That's right, vaggots! I'm gonna eat BEEF!!!!

Im not vegan but this is clearly false

>>16086861
No it isn't, vegans are low IQ because of their diet.
Name a single successful vegan mathematician.

>>16086259
Albert Einstein.

>>16086903
He became vegetarian later in life. Also, coincidentally when he stopped having any productive output. Coincidence? Maybe.

>>16087042
he never had any productive output.

>>16086902
>No it isn't, vegans are low IQ because of their diet.
Citation needed.

>>16087581
vegan diet causes low IQ

>>16086811

Quite the contrary, opposition to carnifaggotry is the common denominator of "Aryan", "esoteric", "trad", etc. dietary habits.

>>16086258
Every single vegantard i've known IRL was batshit insane

They really are people to avoid

I have never met a vegan who wasn't mentally ill

>>16086273
Is that their first or last name?

>>16086258
You're supposed to believe it's "natural" for humans to eat vegetables. Well, this is what vegetables were before agriculture. The only reason people think you're supposed to eat vegetables is because that's what they HAD to eat before we figured out how to do husbandry on a mass scale. Humans evolved to eat lots of cooked red meat, starches and dairy if you're white.

They truly got both sides by the balls.

If y'all suckers wanna eat non vegan go ahead and if others wanna eat vegan go ahead some can even turn to cannibalism idc so stfu

>>16086805
>the same thats sold in every pharmacy?
The same that is extracted from animals retard. Will you eat animals and extract your essential aminoacids efficiently or wait into a jew squishes a hundred baby cows for a bottle of shit?

>>16088247
No. We're gonna use gene Modification to create plants that synthize these vitamins. The jews are gonna save the baby cows.

>>16087581
>>16087613
Vitamin B12 can just be taken in a pill. There are no nutrients from animal sources that cant be sourced from plants and a few vitamin pills.

>>16088247
>The same that is extracted from animals retard.
No it isnt, Vitamin B12 can be chemically synthetized

>>16088633
Science says that you're wrong

>>16088633
B12 supplements are very poorly absorbed compared to the B12 in meat. longtime vegans have to resort to B12 injections. plants are also a poor source of complete proteins, iron, calcium, and vitamin D. it is a very difficult diet to get right.

>>16089296

Carnifaggots consume (some even resorting to injections) far more supplements, by their own admission. In fact, the more of a carnifaggot one is, the less meat proper one consumes and the more supplements one takes.

>>16089296
chlorella, seaweed, etc.

>>16086258
She has a great book: https://www.amazon.com/Change-Your-Diet-Mind-Powerful/dp/1538739070
And her nutrition articles are good: https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/blog/category/foods

>>16089330
You're just coping at this point, carnivores don't have to take B12 supplements to ensure proper B12 status.

>>16089338
Do you have a paper on someone ensuring adequate B12 status with those things?

>>16088639
>No it isnt, Vitamin B12 can be chemically synthetized
So you have to depend on chink factories producing a chemical and exporting it to your country otherwise you die of malnutrition? Is that what you're saying?

>>16089330
Im not advocating for the carnivore diet either. We all need a balanced diet

>>16089395
The carnivore diet is the most balanced diet.

>>16086258
Someone needs to take a closer look at this Harvard thing. This could be a serious threat to OUR democracy.

>>16086805
>>16089361
Dopamine is metabolite of meat contained amino, plant eaters never get enough of it. Dopamine literally have very much benefit for healthy brain, that's why psychiatrists use it as attack surface.

>>16089444
"Here use my special dopamine-depleting diet and I’ll sell you some L-DOPA. Don’t worry your insurance will pay me not you."
https://twitter.com/ChrisMasterjohn/status/1768117449918919056

>>16089362
>So you have to depend on chink factories producing a chemical and exporting it to your country otherwise you die of malnutrition? Is that what you're saying?
Non sequitur and completely irrelevant, and im already dependent on global trade to get food and pretty much everything else. The fact is that synthetic vitam B12 pills render the whole argument of nutritional deficiencies in vegan diets moot, obsolete.

>>16089444
>Dopamine is metabolite of meat contained amino, plant eaters never get enough of it
Fake, all aminoacids in meat are also in plants.
>>16089653
Non sequitur, changing the topic only signals that you are getting violently assraped (in the field of ideas)

>>16089667
>The fact is that synthetic vitam B12 pills render the whole argument of nutritional deficiencies in vegan diets moot, obsolete.
"The fact that you can supplement means that the vegan diet is not deficient"

If you believe this then NO diet is nutritionally deficient and NO diet can be criticized based on its nutritional content.

>>16089709
>>16089709
>If you believe this then NO diet is nutritionally
False, any diet can be criticized based on what its actually in the diet. Vegan diets include vitamin B12 supplementation, and i say this based on the fact than thats what vegans actually do. If you disagree you are criticizing some phantom you have made up that doesnt exist in the real world.
Vegan diets cant have supplements? Because.. exactly why?

>>16089711
>False, any diet can be criticized based on what its actually in the diet. Vegan diets include vitamin B12 supplementation,
So any diet X can be modified to include a supplement, by that standard, any diet's nutritional inadequacy can be rectified, so by that logic no diet + suitable supplement can be criticized. Is that the hill you want to die on? That all diets are nutritionally adequate because we can supplement if they're not?

>>16089717
>So any diet X can be modified to include a supplement,
You judge a diet based on whats in the diet, vegan diets include vitam b12 supplementation. And while wer are at it, all diets include supplements, flour and salt is fortified, you are imagining that diets have to follow some imaginary standard of "purity" that you have defined in your mind but that no one else follows. What people call a vegan diet is not what you pretend it is.
Vegan diets simple mean "diets with no animal products". It doesnt mean "all natural"

>>16089721
>You judge a diet based on whats in the diet
So you agree with me then?

>And while wer are at it, all diets include supplements
Plenty of carnivores who don't supplement and who don't even add salt.

>>16089725
>So you agree with me then?
No, because you claim that vegan diets cant have supplements. Thats an invention of yours. Vegan simply means it cant include animal products. In fact most extreme vegans consume massive amouts of artificial and heavily processed products like like synthetic meats, and no one says they are mot vegans. You are trying to claim that vegan=all natural, and thats a lie.

>>16089734
>No, because you claim that vegan diets cant have supplements
But you said that a diet should be based on what's in the diet, so where do you disagree with here >>16089717?

>>16086258
You need to eat the whole animal. Even the hoofs can be turn into gelatin.

>>16089799
>so where do you disagree with here
Your claim that vegan diets cant include supplements

>>16089814
Where did I say that vegan diets can't include supplements? I know that vegan diets must include supplements otherwise vegans die from B12 deficiency - like every retard who attempted a vegan diet before B12 supplements were a thing.

>>16089895
>Where did I say that vegan diets can't include supplements?
Here
>So any diet X can be modified to include a supplement
Consider the logical implications of what you wrote dumb sperg.
You write about "all diets". That includes vegan diets.
You talk about modifying diets with supplements, so you claim that vegan diets with supplements are a "modification" and therefore not the same diet. Ths implies that for you, vegan diets cant include supplements because having supplements is a "modification"
But vegan diets include supplements. They are not a modification, they are part of it.

>>16089911
>You talk about modifying diets with supplements, so you claim that vegan diets with supplements are a "modification" and therefore not the same diet. Ths implies that for you, vegan diets cant include supplements because having supplements is a "modification"
Non sequitur. My claim would apply to diets that include supplements initially.

But anyway, don't you feel like you should supplement K2 as well on a vegan diet?

>>16089919
>y claim would apply to diets that include supplements initially.
So what?
Vegan diets include supplements. These are not modifications.
Adding up more supplements to vegan diets is not a modification of a vegan diet. The vegan diet doesnt have some strict set of allowed foods and supplements, ist defined by what it cannot include, which is animal products.
So your claim that adding supplements to vegan diets is a modification is just wrong, regardless of any "initial" supplements

>>16089941
>So what?
So you can't say that I claimed that vegan diets can't include supplements.

>These are not modifications.
That's consistent with my argument.

It's crazy that you're defending a diet that MUST include supplements though, and all of this because you think you're helping the animals? You realize how many sentient beings are killed to produce the stuff you eat? You realize a carnivore eating a grass-fed cow per year kills less animals than you, and is more vegan than you?

>>16089954
>You realize
They don't. Any vegan that argues for the Inhumanity of killing animals hasn't been to square the scavenger scenario.

>>16089361
There are plenty of papers about b12 in algae, which you can easily search on google. Among many things, you will find "discussion" about "inactive b12" in spirulina and how it competes with "active b12", however, they couldn't come up with a fantasy argument against the b12 found in chlorella and a broad range of seaweeds (which contain completely "active b12"), at least they have not pulled anything of their asses yet, they just rely on the momentum of ignorance itself.

>>16089980
I'm asking about a paper indicating that someone had adequate B12 status by getting his B12 from those sources only.

>>16089999
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26485478/

>>16089999

>>16089999
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889157522000825

>>16089999
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4042564/

>>16089999
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12656203/

>>16089999
garbage get
imagine getting quads with a honest question
maybe /sci/ is healing

>>16090003
>>16090012
>>16090016
>>16090024
Ok, so you're for eating seaweed instead of getting your B12 directly for meat because of animals? You realize how many sentient beings are killed to produce the stuff you eat? You realize a carnivore eating a grass-fed cow per year kills less animals than you, and is more vegan than you?

>>16086903

The vegetarians and vegans rewriting Wikipedia for cope love to namedrop Einstein.

His house maid documented some of his adult life eating habits. Plenty of saturated fats, fish, meat, snacking on eggs all the time. Was clearly not good for him in the long term, but apparently served him well during his scientific life.
He has been a vegetarian for two years at the end of his life and then died on his desk.

Meanwhile, Adolf Hitler was a militant vegetarian for almost all of his life; no matter how much the vegans try to proof in Wikipedia edit wars that he was not true or something

>>16090044
>Was clearly not good for him in the long term
"muh eggs bad for the long term" Why?

>>16090033
No, I dont give a fuck about animals, I eat algae because it is a broad spectrum vitamin/mineral supplement and I enjoy the taste (of chlorella specifically). I dont eat animals (among other things) because meat makes me feel lethargic and gives me reflux.

>>16088156

I‘ve met this guy who has every food allergy you can imagine, fructose, lactose, whatnot. He can only eat some vegetables, sugar, mushrooms and meat. Would be a complete diet but he still refuses to eat meat for political reasons

Also was fascist about the unvaxxed, is still maxvaxxed despite having problems and tried to explain to me that it is evil that my grandma got eggs from her own lovingly cared-for chicken coop

These people are batshit insane and I believe it‘s partly a result of the diet

>>16090048
>I dont eat animals (among other things) because meat makes me feel lethargic and gives me reflux.
Diagnosis: Hypochlorhydria
Prescription: Betaine HCL + Pepsin supplement until the condition resolves.

So for you farting and feeling bloated gives you energy?

>>16090046

I don’t want to find it now, but he clearly feasted a bit too much. I believe he became vegetarian due to the
health issues developing as a consequence.

I fully support snacking on eggs.

>>16090059
>So for you farting and feeling bloated gives you energy?

I do not have any of those problems. I will tell you that when I first changed from vegetarianism to vegan (almost frugivorism) I was bloated as fuck and farted every 2 minutes all day, the solution for me was dropping out legumes and replacing then with large amounts of fiber (like a 200g flax/sunflower/sesame/chia seed mix everyday). I feel perfectly fine and can eat any quantities of fruit I want, I also poop like never in my life, I noticed that my ass is always clean after taking a shit (I can imagine this is how it's supposed to be naturally). Legumes are a menace, most cereals too.

>>16090080

The reason why you are thinking constantly about food and are fascinated by your feces is that you are malnourished. Animals and indians consume their feces because of a lack of B-Vitamins.

>>16086259
Name a single successful carnivore mathematician

>>16090088
Quite the contrary, I'm of those type of people who would not eat, pee and defecate if they could still live anyways. I just eat thinking about how I feel afterwards, with an emphasis on raw food because I hate to cook, and get enough calories to be able to train and build muscle.

>>16090094

Is this a serious question? Lmao

>>16090101

How are your teeth right now? When did you start?

>>16090105
I started vegetarianism at the end of january 2022, switched to veganism/frugivorism in september/october 2023, I dont remember exactly. I dropped cheese because it was giving me a lot of mucus, like a very thick, unpleasant saliva.

My teeth are good, but I never had teeth issues in my whole life to be honest. I use clay (I think it's kaolin, otherwise bentonite) as toothpaste when brushing. I noticed that not using an abrasive for prolonged periods of time makes your teeth go a little bit yellow, so I started using clay and it took care of that very quickly. Also I flush every now and then.

>>16090144

Good luck bro, I really don’t think it’s a healthy decision and you are secretly doing it to fit in or pose as superior

No animal will not be harmed because you develop dental and other problems down the line

>>16090102
Veganism unlike vegetarianism, is very new and requires modern supplements, just like the carnivore diet. So it's a relatively fair comparison.

>>16090165
Thanks brother, I too dont know if it's fully healthy and what will my future look like, it's very soon to tell. There isn't a "vegan culture" where I live, I got into this after two instances of food poisoning and a very unpleasant travel experience. I would advice to anyone who doesn't want to fully risk it to supplement with raw organic eggs.

>>16090166
The carnivore diet requires supplementation? Where did the Paleolithic man get his supplements from?

>>16090080
But you have hypochlorhydria when you can't deal with a few slices of meat.

I would be very worried about tooth decay and tooth erosion with a vegan diet by the way.

>>16090232
I enjoyed raw dried meats and did not have any problems with that, just that it was extremelly expensive treat. I was a bondiola enjoyer

>>16090254
So what's your problem with eating regular beef?

>>16090230
>Where did the Paleolithic man get his supplements from?
I heard there were these things all over the place, that came out of the dirt. They didn't move or anything. And ancient man could eat parts of them. They had a predominant color or something iconic too. Iirc they were called palets?

>>16090278
I never tried fully raw beef and wouldn't try to do it with regular beef given the not so optimal handling process in the industry, even of organic pasture fed beef (which is always the case here in Argentina with every cow). I think that the only proper way to secure good raw meat would be to do the job yourself or having a very close friendly source so that it does not get contaminated. At least for me, that is complicated enough to avoid it.

>>16086902
vegans choose their diet because they are low iq

>>16089338
It can be done but this makes the point that when you're vegan, certain foods are your medication to keep you from dieing. You'll be tracking down obscure shit or forced to eat a lot of certain foods. Meanwhile someone who is eating meat usually doesn't have to care about micronutrients at all outside of life extension. But if you weren't a researched and disciplined vegan, in just a few years you're going to fuck yourself up.

>>16090286
Those things had no caloric value and were low protein. Why would he eat them when he could get better return on investment with hunting?

>>16090287
And a medium-rare steak is not an option? What about eggs? What about fish? What about shellfish like oysters? You're doing everything not to eat an animal.

>>16090033
>grass fed

So animals eating in pasture might make you correct even though I don't understand how winter feed harvest works but whatever. But the bottom line is most animals are factory farmed where they cut crops and feed the animals, which means we have to grow more crops and cause more collateral damage than just eating the plants directly because of entropy. I'm not vegan, but in the current reality eating animals kills more animals/bugs.

>>16090308
If you ask me, I personally think B12 is found in fruits and vegetables when these are grown naturally and aren't disturbed (nutrient deprived tilled soils, monocultured, sprayed with pesticides, washed). Foods grown naturally obviously are much more nutritious than your average industrial carrot. Aside from that, I don't believe the natural human diet is vegan nor vegetarian, I think it would be a lot of gathering and for sure include raw eggs, raw small fish/game and even insects, with the option for red meat in scarcity events. And seaweed is a pretty common food in many parts of the world, I take it mainly because I am lazy and literally dont want to "be tracking obscure shit", and because obviously I dont have much access to those naturally nutrient-dense fruits and veggies (also for vit D so I dont have to go out).

>>16090316
I simply don't enjoy raw/medium meat, specially fish/shellfish. Cooked eggs dont sit well in my system, raw eggs are ok but I feel its like a supplement at that point and it's an effort to include them in meals.
>You're doing everything not to eat an animal.
Yes, basically for how easy is not to have to deal with it in the kitchen and because non-contaminted meat is very hard to find, specially ocean foods (this includes seaweed ironically, so I prefer to consume chlorella, which is freshwater/flask grown).

>>16090342
>Yes, basically for how easy is not to have to deal with it in the kitchen
Making vegan food requires significantly more planning and time in the kitchen to make things palatable.
>because non-contaminted meat is very hard to find
I don't know what you mean by "contaminated meat", have you considered that your plants are contaminated as well by things like heavy metals, pesticides and stuff?

>>16090321
Cows are big, so you get more calories per death. Eating a varied vegan diet with plants from different crops will result in significantly less calories per death as you have to do what is essentially a genocide on crops so that they don't eat the grown food. Ask any farmer.

>>16090329
>empirical question
>"If you ask me, I personally think B12 is found in fruits and vegetables"
kek

Not even the most batshit insane vegan claims that fruits and veggies contain B12.

>>16090314
What investment? They just sit there... Either way, they must have been pretty important to ancient man's diet, considering some of the adaptions we inherited. A few are:
>ability to taste and enjoy sweetness
>meat is not sweet
>hyper/obligate carnivores like cats, don't even have tastebuds for it

>ability to process alcohol
>alcohol is not found in meat
>only mammals that eat alot of fruit or nectar are known to do this

>we cannot make our own vitamin C, unlike carnivores
>there is very little vitamin C in meat
>you'd die from vitamin A toxicity before getting enough vitamin C from just meat anyway

>>16090351

Every vegan I ever met will talk about food non-stop if given a chance. Shows how much of their mental space it uses up (or perhaps it’s malnutrition, they remind me of the anorectics who will constantly bake and cook for their friends).

At a party one of these types revised his whole 25 ingredients recipe for their vegan mince meat to me by heart when I gave a compliment about his vegan canapés. I could just think „okay wtf, I will just buy mince meat“.

>>16090351
Yes I mean bacteria (by poor hygiene during handling, not only battery farming) and heavy metals, pesticides are found in both animal and plant foods. No I don't believe the interior flesh of avocados is contaminated with bacteria or heavy metals, not at least in the magnitude meat/fish can be contaminated.

>Making vegan food requires significantly more planning and time in the kitchen to make things palatable.
I assure you raw veganism is the most lazy thing you could ever do. I personally don't need to make anything pallatable. The only thing I "cook" is a seed/nut butter that just requires throwing stuff into a blender.

>>16090357
Not the fruits, but the outside of the fruit.

>>16090361
How many

>>16090361
>What investment?
How many calories can they get from eating grass or risking their life eating a wild plant?

>>ability to taste and enjoy sweetness
>>ability to process alcohol
This only indicates that we didn't lose the adaptation to processing alcohol/enjoy sweetness from our common ancestor due to lack of evolutionary pressure for such a loss. It doesn't indicate that we're adapted to consuming alcohol/enjoy sweetness.
>>there is very little vitamin C in meat
Meat reverses scurvy so it contains more than enough vitamin C to reverse a vitamin C deficiency, even biased Wikipedia admits this:
>The surgeon-in-chief of Napoleon's army at the Siege of Alexandria (1801), Baron Dominique-Jean Larrey, wrote in his memoirs that the consumption of horse meat helped the French to curb an epidemic of scurvy. The meat was cooked but was freshly obtained from young horses bought from Arabs, and was nevertheless effective. This helped to start the 19th-century tradition of horse meat consumption in France.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy#19th_century
>>you'd die from vitamin A toxicity before getting enough vitamin C from just meat anyway
Meat does not cause vitamin A toxicity, you're thinking of liver.

>>16090370
But you don't eat just avocados, right? I can assure you that if you eat raw vegan you're eating more bacteria, mold, heavy metals, worm eggs than you'd be getting from cooked meat.

Also how do you even ensure sufficient protein intake with raw vegan??

>>16090373
In experiments they blend the whole fruit to determine B12 content and other nutrients. Again no fruit or veggie has any significant amount of B12.

>>16090402
Yes I eat other things, I dont know if I am eating more bacteria in general but I think I am eating less harmful bacteria than from industrial raw meat (not arguing against cooked anything). I dont care really about worms/eggs, I've eaten some of those unintentionally. Why do you say there is more heavy metals in plant foods than in say, fish? For bulk protein I eat a lot of nuts and seeds.

>>16090403
What I am saying is that you literally get it from soil contamination.

theres a paradox in that vegans' diet causes them to become too dumb to understand the science that prove their diet is making them dumb

>>16090460
How many bacteria do you think survive the cooking process in meat? Can you compare that to raw vegan food?

>For bulk protein I eat a lot of nuts and seeds.
How much protein are you getting per day?

>What I am saying is that you literally get it from soil contamination.
Trace amounts you mean? Maybe, but they're meaningless.

>Doctor says this
>Nutritionist says that
*sigh*

>>16091479
>How many bacteria do you think survive the cooking process in meat? Can you compare that to raw vegan food?
I was always speaking about plants vs raw meat. Never talked about bacteria in cooked food.

>How much protein are you getting per day?
I don't know, but a minimum of 50g only from seeds excluding everything else. I guess at least +80g in total.

>Trace amounts you mean? Maybe, but they're meaningless
No, I'm not talking about the trace amounts of b12 found on almost any food. I'm talking about the b12 found naturally in soil, which is the same b12 that animals ingest (and then you ingest from them).

>>16091806
>I don't know, but a minimum of 50g only from seeds excluding everything else. I guess at least +80g in total.
Seeds go through your digestive system intact. Can you take into account bioavailability? All serious vegans I've seen warn against raw vegan because it's so hard to get enough protein and nutrients with it.

>No, I'm not talking about the trace amounts of b12 found on almost any food. I'm talking about the b12 found naturally in soil, which is the same b12 that animals ingest (and then you ingest from them).
You think the soil contamination to fruits and veggies (which you wash anyway) is going to contain significant quantities of B12? (Ruminants don't get their B12 from soil, others have to resort to eating their poop to get it like rabbits and gorillas)

>>16091859
I eat seeds as seed butters, they do not go through intact, if you eat they whole (without even chewing) they do go intact. The only thing that I take into account is that I'm still alive after more than half a year and exercising 2-3/week, so I think I'm okay.

>You think the soil contamination to fruits and veggies (which you wash anyway) is going to contain significant quantities of B12?
I was talking about some form of no-dig organic form of horticulture where you consume well nourished plant foods safe to eat as is (no need to wash) and not industrial goyslop. I do think this would give you enough b12, but this isn't industrially viable. This is my opinion.

>>16086258
>By (((Emily Joshu))) Health Reporter For Dailymail.Com
Oy vey, double whammy

>>16091938
The no-dig organic form of horticulture would contain a shit ton of parasites and worm eggs and wouldn't reverse B12 deficiency.

>>16088633
B12 is not the only nutrient we are supplied from solely animal proteins
There are plenty of other important micros we need from meat that help fuel and support a healthy body

Focusing solely on b12 is missing a much larger picture

>>16090321
>. But the bottom line is most animals are factory farmed where they cut crops and feed the animals, which means we have to grow more crops and cause more collateral damage than just eating the plants directly because of entropy
While this is somewhat true with regards to factory farming, Id suggest researching regenerative farming which actually helps deal with the problems you bring up

>>16090329
>If you ask me, I personally think B12 is found in fruits and vegetables
>I think
>using your feelings like they're fact

Youre imperically and factually incorrect, doesn't matter how much you "feel" it's true

Holy shit who would've have thought, many such cases

>>16092092
So much comment and he didn't list a single molecule we need to kill animals for. I accept your concession.

>>16092106
>b-b-but muh fee-fees

>>16089359

My point still stands.

>>16092057
>wouldn't reverse B12 deficiency.
do you have proof?

>>>16092106
you missed the point entirely

>>16092492
no, you missed the point entirely

>>16089667
This is just embarassing.

>>16090094
Albert Einstein, once he stopped eating meat he died.

>>16090230
You need to eat the whole animal, not only the "high quality" meats. Some people like to eat all parts of the animal, others are too picky and need supplements. Even the hoofs can be cooked and eaten with honey as a gelatin dessert.

>>16092288
Either the animal dies or you die. Simple as.

>>16092288
You take my meat from my plate and I will take meat from your bones to eat them.

>>16092430
Which point?
>>16092492
>do you have proof?
You're the one making the claim - burden of proof is on you.

>>16092288
If you really cared about the animals you'd become a carnivore (eating 1 dead animal per year - say a cow) vs. a vegan eating crops that requires a genocide of millions of sentient beings.

>>16090094
>oh yeah, what about people on the absolute other extreme of my point of view, they're not doing very well either, therefore my point of view is correct
You seem like the type of guy that would have trouble patching tires for a living.

>>16087507
this

Einstein is the definition of fraud pushed by the establishment. Even a first year faggot can see right through relativities shit if you have even an average head on your shoulders. Whenever I meet anyone who believes in relativity, I always use them as a slave and it works every time lol

>>16093492
>You're the one making the claim - burden of proof is on you.
I made clear that it was an hypothesis of mine, I do not have studies to back that up (there aren't as far as I know). On the other hand B12 in seaweed has plenty of research.

>>16093495
You know that carnivores have to eat more than once? Are you an alien unaware of the human digestive tract? Humans eat multiple times per day.

>>16094082
this
every person needs to eat at least 365 cows and that's if they only eat once per day
I'm vegan and trans btw not sure if that matters

>>16094082 #
this
every person needs to eat at least 365 cows per year* and that's if they only eat once per day
I'm vegan and trans btw not sure if that matters

>>16094082
A cow can provide more than 400 pounds of boneless meat per carcass, don't think you can eat all of that in a day, and I was talking about the average anyway. But if you really want to go down that route, there are carnivores who butcher cows and freeze all their meat.

But even if it was 365 cows per year, it wouldn't be anywhere close to the genocide committed in crops.

>>16094081
"Humans have to get their B12 by eating literal dirt" is not the win you think it is.

>>16094345
I never said that they have to, I was hinting that the b12 issue, in my humble opinion, is more about meat industry shenanigans.

>>16094448
How is it about meat industry shenanigans? Humans would die of B12 deficiency without animal products.

>>16094476
>Humans would die of B12 deficiency without animal products.

This is the propaganda they made, and it was very successful. They did the same with protein, iron, calcium, among others. "How do you get enough calcium without dairy? enough iron without red meat? "You can't get enough protein without animal foods". These questions were standard in the minds of the common people years ago, I don't know about now, but at least it's for a fact known that this is just not true at all. B12 is a myth that remains, the forbidden "vitamin that you can only get through animals", when obviously b12 is produced by bacteria and algae. You can eat the animals who eat these bacteria and algae and get b12, or you can eat the bacteria and algae yourself. And yes for all hominids eating eggs, fish, insects, small and even big game helps. But it's not a must have, as they make it seem.

>>16094637
>or you can eat the bacteria
Give me a single case report of someone having normal B12 status despite his only B12 source being bacteria.

Also give me a single hunter-gatherer population living exclusively on non-animal products.

>>16094677
>Give me a single case report of someone having normal B12 status despite his only B12 source being bacteria.
Since almost all b12 is produced by bacteria, I assume you are referring to b12 obtained via contamination from soil. In that case as I've already said, there aren't any studies, unsurprisingly.

>Also give me a single hunter-gatherer population living exclusively on non-animal products.
There aren't as far as I know, if you are referring to hominids, most eat some insects. I don't know what this has to do with my point though.

Anyways, go watch the rocks in a river or body of water, see how full of algae it is. These algae harbor b12. Now try to conceptualize of all the microorganisms you dont see. There is a shit ton of b12 in the environment, that's the point. If you live in modern society, and drink filtered water, you aren't exposed to it.

>>16094795
So you agree that hunter-gatherer populations would require meat to get adequate B12?

>>16094902
No. They wouldn't require it. They could make use of it, and they do.

>>16094637
>This is the propaganda they made
yeah bro
its propaganda and not just human nature
every human in history was wrong except for you because you watched a netflix documentary about veganism
please kill yourself posthaste
you will not be a healthy human without eating animal foods

>>16086258
I know 3 vegans and they’re all insanely fit. Meanwhile I know ~50 non vegans and most of them are obese.

Vegan here

In the best shape of my life. I'm lean af and feel limber at the gym/playing sports. Bloodwork came out great. And even past my brain fevelopment "peak" (I'm 26) my brain is firing on all cylinders.

Best of all, don't have to live with the guilt/disgust of the animal industrial complex and eating corpses of animals that were horrifically slaughtered. Vegan chads stay winning

>>16090395
>risking their life eating a wild plant?
there is 0 risk they dont even move

>>16090395
they eat raw horse meat in japan, its popular, one of the top sumo wrestlers swears its part of the key to his success. the japs call it "sakuraniku"

>>16092092
Wrong. Everybody is speculating, because nobody knows what's going on.
It's the lack of heavy metals. You won't fix it by juggling with various foods, macros, and so on. Even the B12 is likely only a problem because if the fobalt depletion, and wouldn't be a problem to obtain otherwise.

>>16088639
>>16088247
B12 aren't chemically synthesized nor derived from animals. It's derived from bacteria. The same bacteria that animals derive their B12 from. The debate on veganism here is over before it starts because seemingly no one has any information on basic facts.
B12 deficiency is the biggest hurdle for vegans that would separate even a junk food vegan from a junk food carnivore, and it's easily supplemented by B12 derived from bacteria. The rest of the vitamin deficiencies a vegan has is probably caused by the same things influencing the average omnivorous affluent human to be retardedly unhealthy.

>>16095383
>don't have to live with the guilt/disgust of the animal industrial complex and eating corpses of animals
How do you think your crops are cultivated you fucking virtue-signaling imbecile? Through a mass genocide of sentient beings. If you really cared about animals you'd be a carnivore (one grass-fed cow per year should be enough vs the millions of kills on your hand).

>>16095493
Plants carry potent defense chemicals that can make you sick and kill you.

>>16095687
Vegans get tooth decay a lot more and have to get K2 supplements as well.

>>16096129
so K2 is the new B12, what a fucking bunch of grifters, they never get tired don't they

here you go, algae contain K2, what's next?

>>16096150
Liar. Algae have 0 K2.
doi:10.1093/oxfordjournals.pcp.a079253

Also no one is getting B12 from naturally occurring plant organisms/bacteria/soil/dirt, they're getting it from highly refined algae supplements though.

>>16096213

https://academic.oup.com/pcp/article-abstract/8/1/79/1895135

>Chromatium, strain D contained two kinds of quinones, i. e. ubiquinone and vitamin K2. The green sulfur bacterium, Chloropseudomonas ethylicum, contained vitamin K2 and a Chlorobium quinone-like substance.

???

>>16096251
>Chloropseudomonas ethylicum
That's a bacteria, not algae. The algae themselves (with the bacteria they contained) did not have any detectable amount of K2).

>>16096213
>>16096251
Oh I get what you are saying, that algae don't produce K2. But they do harbor K2. It's the same for B12 in most cases. Bacterial production. Fermented anything has K2 as far as I know

>>16096257
The researchers took the algae with the bacteria it contained and it didn't have detectable quantities of K2. I'm saying even algae + those bacteria = no significant amounts of K2. I'll grant you that some trace amounts might exist.

>>16096255
>>16096257

>>16096285
So now you're for eating microalgae?

>>16096318
Always have been. I enjoy chlorella a lot.

>>16096326
Plants have different needs, their machinery is suited for photosynthesis, so their energy/micronutrient distribution is vastly different from animals. That's why with a plant only diet you won't be getting the optimal micronutrient distribution which is what's found in animal tissue which is the closest to what a human would need.

>>16096405
So the satanists are getting the best micronutrient mix? bros... not like this.

I honestly don't have an opinion about it, I don't know what we have evolved into as of this point and what is best for us. So I guess yours is as valid as mine.

veganism debates on /sci/:
>anti-vegan googles "top 10 anti-vegan facts" and posts 1st result
>pro-vegan searches the 1st result and appends "debunked" to it and fires back
is this peak scientific inquiry?

>>16096428
Eating members of your own species is not ancestrally consistent obviously.

>>16091940
sheeeiiiiiiitttt

>>16096125
but animals are the same except they move and try to stop you from eating them first

>>16088239
That's a lie. In fact wild fruits are better quality. It's oy that you grow a collection from the entire globe, instead of the select few that grow locally.

>>16088239
That's a lie. In fact wild fruits are better quality. It's only that you grow a collection from the entire globe, instead of the select few that grow locally.

>>16097206
>but animals are the same
Animals can move and stuff, plants are immobile. Their only defense mechanism is those potent plant toxins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFRCe65NV44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cqNDDG4aA

>>16088239
>and dairy if you're white.
Dairy is only as old as raising animals in herds, its probably only slightly older than agriculture is. Eating meat is what humans have been living off of for millions of years.

>>16096441
>everyone else is soooooooo dumb
>i am soooooooo smart
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

>>16099913
First result of google, you could at least not play into the post

>>16099964
Fuck you

>>16091940
good pic

>>16096441
i get all my info for these threads directly from reddit

>>16102871
think tanks and mainstream media and google SEO have ruined actually finding anything out, so everyone gets their info from randos on social media now. not sure if good or bad. kikes ruined the internet