/sci/ - Science & Math

>>16038130
The picture probably compares the stupidest black person with the smartest gorilla. On average a black person should be somewhat smarter than a gorilla

>>16038130
>Gorillas would be escaping from zoos constantly if they were really that smart.
You overestimate the intelligence of blacks!

Likely you didn't think to ignore social and verbal cues. An 85-IQ black is more socially adjusted and linguistically capable than a typical 85-IQ white. This is because an 85-IQ black is just normal, while an 85-IQ white is a deviation from the norm, due to some genetic or environmental insult which is comorbid with behavioral problems. The problem-solving abilities of these two 85-IQ people are about equal, but the black one sounds smarter and socially normal. Now, the median black isn't Thomas Sowell, the median black is a Rachel Jeantel. Open a tab and listen to her testimony at the Zimmerman trial.

No, really, go and do it. She isn't an outlier, she's just a convenient example of typical blackness because the media don't usually put typical blacks in the spotlight. Her IQ is around 90, could be a bit lower, could be a bit higher. Now downgrade your estimate of her problem-solving abilities to compensate for the verbal-cue bias. Do you really think she would come up with a multistage plan to escape a zoo enclosure, if she couldn't communicate with her keeper any more than a gorilla would? She would just get angry, punch the bars, and then stay put and eat when food is offered.

>>16038130
When they first discovered blacks, they did keep them in literal zoos. And no, they didn't escape. It took decades of study to discover that they were actually intelligent enough to live in society with other humans, given the proper training and guardrails.

>>16038279

>>16038322
The ancient Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians were what would today be considered white. I do think they are more intelligent than northern Europeans which is what that guy meant by white. I do not think the person you're quoting believed that sub-saharan Africans are capable of the same civilizational feats as Greeks.

>>16038130
>Do you think science is probably dramatically overestimating the IQ of gorillas?

Yes, basically to assess average intelligence it's best to view the collective behavior patterns. The fact that tool usage in Sub-Saharan African populations was enough to utilize spears, shields, fire and metallurgy prior to Islamic or European colonization renders any argument for gorilla intelligence being that high at the aggregate level moot.

No one ever entertains the idea of Gorillas being smarter than Iranians, Albanians or Filipinos despite them having lower IQs than the 85 IQ Gorilla. So why should you or anyone else entertain it with people who could literally set the forests these Gorillas ablaze at any moments notice?

>>16038359
>confusing individual intelligence and accumulated culture
>gorillas are dumb because they couldn't improve sharp rock "technology" over hundreds of thousands of years
Let's see the problem-solving skills of a feral Iranian, Albanian or Filipino. Oh and let's not forget to damage the social-learning area of the brain to make the feral human as asocial as a gorilla.

>>16038130
Not at all, as always is over estimating the IQ of the left side.

>>16038207
It really depends if you are healthy low IQ (which is actually good) or low IQ because of brain damage, which is actually a high IQ person who fails the tests because of the brain damage, which sucks.

Why are you so quick to defend that man made metric to test if children are retarded. Imagine saying koko the gorilla is smarter than some a somalian pirate and just keep going like it makes sense.

>>16038207
I sense this topic is close to your heart

>>16038130
My theory: gorillas are white people's ancestors
Chimps are black people's ancestors
true or not?
>>16038144
you're thinking about basketball americans, who all have a large amount of white ancestry which makes them intelligent enough to be very annoying.

>>16038431
I might add somalian society can be a bit complex. They have their own system of chieftans instead of a formal government.

>>16038279
>given the proper training and guardrails
Guess we just stopped caring about that?

>>16038130
60 IQ is what you get by random choice of answers in an IQ test. Pretty fake

>>16038444
Could koko the gorilla make a stock exchange for piracy as well? This is ridiculous.

>>16038381
>confusing individual intelligence and accumulated culture

Anon remind us again where and how that Gorilla got those 2000 English words from. It's not like it took it upon it self to enter human civilization, picked up a book and trained itself to learn English on its own. So when you talk about confusing the individual with accumulated remember that said confusion doesn't involve yourself in the matter.

Also Gorillas are not asocial you smoothbrain. They function at the social level just like Humans do, it's the magnitude of sociality that's different not the base behavior.

Are you thinking about the theoretical idea of eusocitality in Humans and how they have similarities to Ants and Bees? Is that what you're trying to allude to?

>>16038381
>confusing individual intelligence and accumulated culture

Anon remind us again where and how that Gorilla got those 2000 English words from. It's not like it took it upon itself to enter human civilization, picked up a book and train to learn English on its own. So when you talk about confusing the individual with the accumulated remember that said confusion doesn't include yourself in the matter.

Also Gorillas are not asocial you smoothbrain. They function at the social level just like Humans do, it's the magnitude of sociality that's different not the base behavior.

Are you thinking about the theoretical idea of eusocitality in Humans and how they have similarities to Ants and Bees? Is that what you're trying to allude to?

>>16038463
Even the way gorilla's move is dull. They're slow animals that eat grass. Nothing remarkable about them.

>>16038463
Your writing is awfully garbled. Words don't agree with each other syntactically, are randomly capitalized, and you can't keep a thought straight. Hm. You're black! Why do you feel the need to put down gorillas to make yourself feel better?

Next you're going to tell me dogo is smart because it can howl i wub you so you can feel better about being le smart but lazy. Troop of morons.

>>16038476
Notice how in light of you not actually having a proper retort or counter argument you immediately attack the respondent. Then imply said respondent is a part of the subject matter hand?

Did it ever occur to you might be baited into showing your bias simply by constructing a post that highlights your willingness to weasel your way out of a dead end argument instead of actually having an intelligent discussion? Your Gorilla example is moot, it didn't come to human civilization on its own and it was trained to learn knowledge created by thousands of years of aggregated knowledge.

>>16038487
Notice how very few people find it fun to wade through the confused mumbling of someone such as yourself, to try and salvage whatever point they had, if any. I'm not one of them, and I don't owe you the effort. Someone else, like the original anon, can do so if they're inclined. I merely noticed that you're likely black, and found amusing your need to belittle the intellect of gorillas.

>>16038503
>the intellect of gorillas
The lack of intellect of gorillas. They're just stupid monkeys. Their diet hardly has any protein that'd you'd expect from an intelligent species. Your stupid little test is a joke, I won't play your silly little games.

>>16038503
Yet again, no retort, no counter argument, just attacking the respondent. You claim to care about Gorillas but fail to provide a intelligent response to defend them.

Unironically you do more to belittle them by simply failing to have a proper discussion. You may not owe me effort but you at least owe the Gorillas some.

>>16038534
>no counter argument,
The argument is that gorillas are obviously stupid and another argument is that Koko himself didnt know any words, this meme that he knew 2000 words is just propaganda.
Black people obviously know a lot more than 2000 words. They speak, some of them become surgeons and can operate on patients that dont die during surgery. Can a gorilla do brain surgery?

>>16038130
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLoFNlbS4dQ
(ai recommended me to listen to this)

>>16038279
that was never discovered, its just a conjecture.

>>16038322

>>16038563
The counter argument is obvious, but no one wants to say it.
Ah well.
Generational knowledge, and the support of an uplifting group. Remove that group, and blacks don't retain the knowledge, backsliding to 70-40 IQ depending on the study.
We don't know how gorillas respond to constant outside support over generations. We don't have an upper level here. We know that here, right now, the most intelligent socialized gorilla outperforms Abbos.
We do not know how far this can go. It's racist to try.

>>16038130
If you believe even the smartest Gorilla could score 85 on an adult IQ test, there's a good chance you would score even lower.

>>16038130
Should probably look at the methodology. The IQ tests I'm familiar with involve looking at pictures, and reading instruction sentences. No way a gorilla can do any of those problems or understand that it is supposed to look at a page and do a problem.
There would be some viral video of "Gorilla solving IQ test", it's not conceivable
So there must be some kind of IQ test for 2 year olds where you put square shapes in square holes or something like that, and the gorillas can do it like a mildly retarded 2 year old

>>16038130
bump

>>16038130
>>16038144
>>16041120
meanwhile, the truth

>>16038130
>Gorillas would be escaping from zoos constantly if they were really that smart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokito_(gorilla)
On 18 May 2007, Bokito responded to children throwing rocks at him[3] by jumping over the water-filled ditch that separated his enclosure in Rotterdam from the public; he violently attacked a woman, dragging her around for tens of metres and inflicting bone fractures as well as more than a hundred bite wounds. He subsequently entered a nearby restaurant where he enjoyed an expensive steak dinner and left without leaving a tip

>>16038443
> gorillas are white people's ancestors
Chimps are black people's ancestors
true or not?
But isn’t it true that chimps have white skin and gorillas have black? Also gorilla face looks negro whereas chimps look like monkey.

>>16041437
But both are born greyish pink and then darken due to sun exposure.
Gorillas are strong like white people are, whereas black people have long thin branch reaching arms which makes them good at handling balls.

>>16038279
>It took decades of study to discover that they were actually intelligent enough to live in society with other humans, given the proper training and guardrails.
who conducted these studies?

>>16041437
True, Africans continue to interbreed with chimpanzees to this day.
https://guardian.ng/news/genetic-makeup-of-12-year-old-angolan-boy-in-dispute/
No other subspecies of human is even fertile with chimpanzees let alone capable of producing non-sterile offspring.

>>16039561
>the most intelligent socialized gorilla outperforms Abbos.
outperforms? at doing what?

>>16038130
Modern science is largely dogshit--especially fields like anthropology, evolutionary biology, and so forth.

>>16038130
The gorilla IQ is wrong. The smartest animal is a chimp and their IQ is like 20

>>16041922
Sobriety

>>16038443
Yakub? Is that you?

>>16041899
Some imbecile moron obviously.

>>16038130
Based on the experience I've had working with Africans, I'd say we're overestimating the IQ of niggers.

>>16038130
Of course, the IQ scores derived from animals and those derived from humans are different... Why is nobody talking about this obvious fact?

Since the methods for calculating IQ scores from animals vary among scholars, the IQ indices in each paper differ, and moreover, scholars conducting such ambiguous research do not claim that the indices they derive are equivalent to human IQ scores.

Here, many people are known to be interested in IQ. Do you not even know such basic things?

>>16042066
lol
its funny because its true

>>16038130
>Do you think science is probably dramatically overestimating the IQ of gorillas?
wrong question
koko was probably a complete fraud in every detail. the iq score given is too high to be plausible, but calling it an "overestimate" implies a sincere effort to measure it that i don't think was there

>>16038130
To get these numbers for their book The Bell Curve Hernstein and Murray disregarded IQ tests which went against their narrative, including black schools in South Africa and IQ tests given to children across Africa. Instead they focused on poor communities with little schooling and a single IQ test given to a group of miners who had never seen a test before to paint a picture of intelligence which was what their benefactors who funded the book, who are literal Nazis through The Pioneer Fund, a white supremacist group who believed in Eugenics, wanted them to find. Even the test given to the miners is borderline fraudulent because 3 months later the same miners were given a second test, and now understanding what it was they were being asked, scored 80 points on the test. It is likely that a third test would have even higher results.

All of this was ignored in order to dupe idiots such as yourself.

>>16043319
so you're saying you disagree with OP and that gorillas are legitimately smarter than negroes

>>16043319
The Bell Curve came out in 1994. The map in OP is based on a book from 2002.
Next time do some actual research before you speak instead of relying on some Breadtuber's video for information.

>>16043319
>Even the test given to the miners is borderline fraudulent because 3 months later the same miners were given a second test, and now understanding what it was they were being asked, scored 80 points on the test.
This is called training effect and there is nothing fraudulent about this. When you give people two IQ tests after certain periods of time they will always score higher on the second testing. This is true even among Western samples. The correct way to proceed is to take into account only the results from the first testing.

>>16043291
Having to deal with abos isn't funny, though.

>>16039527
>its just a conjecture.
all evidence shows that the conjecture is incorrect

places like this collect a lot of nazis from /pol/ and those tend to be very stupid people.

as a result they have the delusion the iq even means anything.

iq is just comedically flawed; it's heavily contaminated by educated to the point that it should make people laugh out loud; for instance if you are mathematician with a life long experience in solving logical and numerical problems then you might start from a "65" as a young adult and after experience end up to near 200 lol..

>>16044937
white cuck desperate to please niggers
they'll kill you too whitoid

>>16045011
nazis are white niggers though. everyone can be stupid.

and iq is bad metric sorry nazi boi.

>>16039561
I'm really not the biggest nigger appreciator, but it's hilarious that you slide into basically the same cope that leftists do: basketball Americans (gorillas) suffered from adverse environment across the previous generations in slavery (in zoos and forests) but if we try hard enough across many future generations, we can totally make them much smarter, trust me bro!
Truly birds of feather.

>>16038144
image uses averages for nations. koko is a controversial ape in linguistics. many argue she didn't actually understand language. even if she did, she'd be one of the smartest gorillas to have lived. still would be bizarre for the average of a human nation to score lower than the smartest gorilla

>>16045097
the n word is racist

>>16045101
The real problem is even if the score is legit it doesn't translate into real world performance. I've talked about this before in other threads on how national IQ and IQ in general has a real world "translation" problem.

That Gorilla has been taught 2000 words and been stated to have an 85 IQ via testing. But said Gorilla has no verified understanding in how to apply it in everyday sentence structure or rules of communication. It can't ""functionally"" communicate on its own and it can't formulate fictional/non-fictional commentary.

So Koko's 85 IQ falls apart the moment it needs to be demonstrated on a real world or more specifically a practical level.

>>16038279
What is a literal zoo as opposed to an unliteral one? I am only aware of one type of zoo exiting in my country.

>>16045097
if IQ is genetic and indeed such a great predictor of civilised or eusocial behaviour as internet-nazis claim, then by all accounts the true master race is the sum of all intelligent people and inter-breeding between these individuals must be propagated whereas inferior IQ specimen, such as pol-tards, nazis and other socialists, irregardless of race or socio-economic class, must be castrated.
and I think that's beautiful.

>>16045764
>inter-breeding
Your IQ denialism aside, regression to the mean is a thing. >>16034477

>>16045736
the gorilla didn't even know a single word.
if you ever have too much time on hand and want some in-depth summary of just how much of a scam the whole gorilla-sign-language thing is, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7wFotDKEF4

otherwise spoiler alert:
the gorilla was basically just randomly spawning signs until she got a treat (and that's all she learner) and her handler, in an amalgamation of lying to herself, wishful thinking and downright scamming, just selectively picked up the 'right signs' until something came she wanted to hear ...
and we, the public, should have been aware of this right from the get go, because the only people who supposedly were able to talk to the gorillas were always their respective trainers / handlers who also did all the interpretations of their sign-language.

>>16045786
gambler's fallacy too is a thing. especially among people who do not understand how regression to the mean works.

>>16045762
Blacks are kept in metaphorical zoos today. For example: Detroit, Atlanta, Trenton

As in: "This black neighborhood is a zoo"

>>16045798
"Regression to the mean" is a phrase originally due to Francis Galton, who in the 19th century described this specific case of regression of quantitative traits such as parental height or intelligence to the population mean in children. When two IQ 160 parents from an IQ 100 population interbreed, the child's IQ regresses to the mean of 100. When two IQ 160 parents interbreed and one is from a low-IQ population unlike the other one, the child's IQ regresses to the midpopulation mean, i.e. not ideal. I didn't quite catch what you gambled on and what the relevance of your gambling was. Try not to mumble?

>>16045810
You that as if the greater society that is the US which regularly broadcast it's behavior isn't itself a zoo.

Name me another country with programs like this for the rest of the world to see?

>>16045814
stfu, regression toward the mean is the phenomenon where if one sample of a random variable is extreme, the next sampling of the same random variable is likely to be closer to its mean.

so let's talk about sampling:
when you pick one nigger from Zimbabwe is extraordinary smart, then yes, the next nigger you pick will be dumb, but when we're playing family with mommy and daddy we are not picking randomly from all niggers from rhodesia but from the set of possible niggers their genome encodes (more or less their respective families) and thus when you make them breed - guess what: your two IQ160 hyper niggers with genes of IQ160 hyper niggers won't produce some IQ80 nigger just because people they are not related to are dumb.

and guess what? the real world agrees with me: smart people have smart kids and smart kids have smart grandparents. Unbelievable. Almost like genes encode information and not the mean of monkeys living in some arbitrary area.

>>16045814
oh, and since you lose genetic information per generation (as each parent only adds some 50% of their genome) your mean is also a rolling average meaning that by fucking smart guys you actually raise the mean you revert to.

>>16045823
>regression toward the mean is the phenomenon where if one sample of a random variable is extreme, the next sampling of the same random variable is likely to be closer to its mean.
Intelligence is a quantitative trait. This means that it is causally downstream of thousands of genes, each contributing a small effect to intelligence. Some are beneficial, some are detrimental. These genes exist in a number of variants, alleles. A parent's set of alleles is a realization of a draw from the possible set of alleles that exist in the population. An extreme draw results in an extremely high or low intelligence. Regression to the mean, as described by Galton, occurs when roughly half of the extreme set of each parent's alleles is taken and mixed to produce the child's set. The expected effect is that more of the detrimental genes end up in the mix, pulling the child's intelligence back to the population mean.

>won't produce some IQ80 nigger
They will produce an IQ 144 black child in expectation, compared to the expected IQ of 148 in a white child as I explain in >>16034477 and refer the non-retarded reader to the Bible of quantitative genetics.

>so let's talk about sampling:
You're a retarded child; I told you to stop mumbling.

>>16045849
you're still not sampling from the whole population of a nation but from just two high-IQ individuals who each respectively present their own distribution of contributing factors - because without that constraint they'd be the mean already. and when you make them make love they can not contribute what is not there - ergo you sample from these two who have to have a eugenic profile -> ergo you will revert to the mean of these two.

>You're a retarded child; I told you to stop mumbling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(statistics)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

>>16045889
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean#History

>you're still [...] of these two.
I saw more coherent bullshitting from undergrads than that.

>>16045822
I don't disagree, but what does that have to do with my point? The guy I'm replying to said "a literal zoo as opposed to what" and my reply is "a metaphorical zoo"

>>16041128
Bro traced the gorillas from Planet of The Apes and thought nobody would notice.

>>16038207
Blacks are also highly dopaminergic, which helps to compensate for deficiencies of general cognition with e.g. improved social and verbal fluency.
You also see this with the Irish.

>>16045822
>this tv show depicting the media jew's seething hate of white america is totally real bro

>>16041913
This is a fake story from worldnewsdailyreport.com, a satirical site.

>>16038130
selection bias.
most gorillas are uber stupid and can't do the tests.
they chose only the one who was smart and mellow enough to teach it to do the test. the IQ of this gorilla was also overestimated. they repeatedly taught it the tasks and english over how many years.
I say it may have an IQ of 50 or so.
normal gorillas may have an IQ of 5 std below humans or something.

>>16038130
>Gorillas would be escaping from zoos constantly if they were really that smart
IQ is about pattern intelligence. It's not about WILL, intellect or explorativeness

>>16047161
And he fell for it. What does that say about his IQ?

>>16046826
Stop being so antisemitic, the jews would never put anything fake on TV.

>>16045762
>What is a literal zoo as opposed to an unliteral one?
nigger brained

>>16038130
65 is also an overestimate of negroe IQ

>>16043626
lol good pic
its funny because its true

>>16038279
>And no, they didn't escape.
so they're not any smarter than gorillas

>>16043626
scientifically speaking you can recognize that "better" or "worse" genes make kinda the same thing, consciousness, which is what actually hides under the statement on the right plank. in that sense you can recognize the fortune and missfortune of humans, based on their genes and birthplace/life experiences. /sci/ence is wiser in picrel. /pol/tards are stuck at shallow levels.

>>16038130
so even gorillas show signs of improvement if they have special education with tutors and a bunch of humans looking after its ass and well-being with a bunch of resources dedicated to it. how fucking interesting.
how many English words does the gorilla understand if it's raised in the jungle, when you first meet it?

>>16051166
meanwhile no matter how much time and effort is spent trying to educate negroes, it has no effect.

>>16052486
nah that's using bad examples. like pointing out someone in the ghetto CAN go to school but fucks up in the meanwhile. clearly, because of local conditions (culture etc).
you are pretty retarded desu. it's a serious disconnect between "4chan culture" and fucking science and I'm kinda over it. there's better arguments in mocking cultures not genes, but that isn't lucrative.

imagine having a factory pumping out bad car parts. you then proceed to demonize the bad parts. and shrug your shoulders "gotta destroy all the bad parts, the only solution".
>what about the factory, why not fix whatever is wrong with it?
"shut up faggot, the parts souls are wretched, we gotta keep pumping them and punish the parts for not choosing to be good parts".
you are all fucking schizoid idiot pseuds.

>>16038130
monkeys and gorillas have to be 40 iq, they can't form their own villages or farm or machine tools

>>16052533
can you machine tools? how many villages have you built?

>>16052533
They can't do spears or fire. I'm not sure how anyone can entertain this topic when Monkeys and Gorillas can't even do basic prehistoric tribal shit.

>>16052533
Even changing human chromosome count it's hard to fall to the level of a gorilla without simply dying. The genetic distance we're talking is so enormous that putting them on the same scale is difficult to do.

>>16038130
Some things to consider:

>average human in most of those countries is horribly malnourished stunting their brain development, basically brain damaged due to extreme poverty, the gorilla in contrast was fed a healthy diet meeting its nutritional needs

>IQ evaluated in terms of problem solving and using sign language doesnt account for the verbal intelligence of learning and using spoken language, the gorilla would be much weaker at interacting with human society as a result

>people from most of these countries would likely not escape from a zoo enclosure either, the bars and zookeepers would restrain them and when given adequate food and some entertainment they wouldn't be particularly motivated to escape any more than the gorillas are

Anyway, seems pretty clear that on the aggregate level it is not true that gorilla's intellectual potential matches Africans as they never developed farming, weapons, fire etc, all of which were developed by human ancestors before spreading out from Africa. The miserable state of people in these countries isn't solely due to limited genetic potential (though that is a factor) but greatly worsened through several generations of dysgenic reproduction and severe malnutrition due to colonialism and decolonization.

>>16039561
Brilliant point Anon.
Until we give all the gorilla populations equal social power we will never know if they are truely being held back by Speciesism.
How can we expect the gorilla to perform well in tests if they dont go the the best schools and have role models such as CEOs and scientists to look up to!

>>16053670
Another thing to consider: To the jew, traditional societies work and depend on the fact that the people are stupid animals who are unable to determine what is good for them.
Then came the jew, with his towering intellect, which gave him a unique abity: he was able to determine if he will profit before he does it. Which made him naturally overcome everybody else (as soon as he learned to use unrestricted violence to subdue the stupid violent animal)

So in summary: A jew think it's a genius strategy to only do what is good for him, to be 100% selfish.

This isn't because he thinks he's such a genius that he will be able to get away with it. The reason why he thinks it's a genius strategy that nobody else is able to immitate is that he is such an enormous retard that he thinks it takes his genius intelligence to determine if he will profit from something. In other words, he thinks that others would be selfish too if they could, but their intelligence isn't high enough to calculate what is good for them.

>still thinking koko the gorilla could speak
GORILLAS CAN'T SPEAK OR UNDERSTAND HUMAN LANGUAGE how don't you know this? the premise is flawed. stop arguing like retards and watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7wFotDKEF4

>>16053629
the whole thing is a sham, gorillas can't understand language https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7wFotDKEF4

>>16041128
evolutionfags believe this is real lmao

>>16051127
keep getting mad at pictures, retard

>>16038130
The thread already begins bad when the OPs dont even know that the quote of wikipedia is from Koko with is a genius of the gorillas.
And get worser and worser and worser.
Looks like /sci/ is truly dumb.

>>16038130
The thread already begins bad when the OP dont even know that the quote of wikipedia is from Koko, the most inteligent gorilla.
And get worser and worser and worser.
Looks like /sci/ is truly dumb.

>>16038130
the IQ metric isn't properly handled anywhere, it's a complete joke. it's supposed to have a mean of 100 but the global mean is like 87.5 or something. it's a broken metric, I would go as far to say it's completely pseudoscientific.

>>16055212
IQ tests is not only valid, but usually stupid people try and comfort by saying it's not valid.
While they fail in every single test and metric ever created by the man and think they are somewhat capable.

>>16054044
Christopher Langan (smartest man in the world) said he was.

>>16055326
*she

>>16055326
The African grey parrot also has an extensive vocabulary at 1000 words, understands the concept of zero, can count up to 8, can kiss, cuddle and dance. Does that mean it can have an IQ of 85 too?

https://danspetcare.com/pets/worldssmartestbird?format=amp

>>16055343
>https://danspetcare.com/pets/worldssmartestbird?format=amp
Hmm, seems they could have the IQ of a 4 year old

DAMN! my IQ is just 86 that's the reason why I watch cartoons damn!

>>16045946
>You also see this with the Irish.
lol'd

>>16054044
This only means animals are more intelligent than we give them credit for and we are not unique.
We are just an accident of having opposable thumb and a physiology for complex communication.
Still , how do they "estimate" the IQ of a gorilla ?

>>16038443
You were designed idiot.

>>16046826

>>16038130
Weird how these kind of threads never get made on /an/

>>16055573
RAPE ToT

>>16056581
/an/ jannies b& them

>>16056123
>i believe in evolution
>but also when humans evolve to be better than all the other animals, thats just an accident
t. anti-human death cultist

>>16058274
How are humans better ? By what metric ?
It's true, we can do things other species can not, but so they can . Try to run butt naked in the woods in the middle of winter, see how far that gets you.
We also have a characteristic that's seen only in the worst most destructive species - we consume our environment and when there's nothing left to consume, we can not do anything but leave.

>>16038130
IQ just refers to problem solving ability, not things like self awareness which humans have a lot of and apes probably lack quite a bit. Even though there's an IQ "difference" between blacks and gorillas, a group of blacks would win versus a group of gorillas easily

>>16038130
>Gorillas would be escaping from zoos constantly
they do
chimps too
The security measures zoos take around them are quite thorough, yet they still find ways out
good thing tranquiliser darts exist

>>16059189
they don't

>>16041128
lmao

>>16058813
Humans are morally and cognitively better, as has been pointed out *multiple* times now.

Your next move is to try to assert some self-defeating value system. Just go to bed before you try that though.

>>16058813
>i hate humans
so be part of the solution & kys

>>16045100
If we're going to apply a logic and method to one group (humans. off-topic, but most legends involve some form of uplifting) we should -as a test- apply the logic to every group. It's unscientific to do otherwise.
Consider the possibility that we've mentally degraded animal species to use them as optimized foodstuff. Just... consider it for a bit.
Would it surprise you that this is how demons are described to use humans?

>>16053726
Unironically yes. At a minimum we need to see if they can bring diverse viewpoints to the table. We can't justify throwing trillions of dollars and immeasurable water into AI when uplifted animals have the possibility of providing the same perspective diversity sustainably for a fraction of the cost. But regardless of benefit, it should be tried on moral grounds.

>>16061911
I don't hate humans, just retards. If I kys I'm going to take you with me for sure

>>16060847
Morals are a human invention. Even applying human rules, no animal kills for pleasure.
Cognitive.. yeah. But is that a good criteria ? And how does this contradict the original point ? We are an accident of nature, our attributes can all be seen in other species even if less developed.
I expect some idiot to come and accuse me again of hating humans because I'm pointing out the obvious . Fucking christcuks

>>16062588
>no animal kills for pleasure.
wrong

>>16062588
All mammals are capable of morality.

>>16038130
>Do you think science is probably dramatically overestimating the IQ of gorillas?
>Gorillas would be escaping from zoos constantly if they were really that smart.
I think you are dramatically underestimating how dumb IQ 85 really is.

>>16062588
>Morals are a human invention.
no. morals derive from the evolution of cooperation which you can find in all species to some degree.

>no animal kills for pleasure
cats do. they also torture their prey for pleasure.

>>16062593
>wrong
Source ? >my ass

>>16062628
>All mammals are capable of morality.
I don't think so. To be able to understand morals you need to have abstract concepts understanding which animals can not do.
Of all the brainlets replying here none thought about this being one thing that really separates us both from animals and from niggers.

>>16062642
>no. morals derive from the evolution of cooperation which you can find in all species to some degree.
No, you are confusing a purely instinctual and mechanistic act with reason. Being moral is supposed to be a voluntary act .
A mentally impaired man is not moral because he doesn't do crime, he doesn't do crime because he can think of it.

>cats do. they also torture their prey for pleasure.
No, they "torture" their pray because it's in their instinct. We kill other species in all sorts of ways some including rituals , some including sport, some including pure evilness

>>16062667
All mammals have the brain circuits necessary for handling abstractions. What people who say this actually mean "I have actually no idea how this thing works, but I can judge the words well enough that I can call someone a nigger when I get called out on that."

>>16062667
All mammals have the brain circuits necessary for handling abstractions. What people who say this actually mean is "I have actually no idea how this thing works, but I can juggle with the associated words well enough that I can call someone a nigger when I get called out on that."

>>16062727
>All mammals have the brain circuits necessary for handling abstractions
Very hardly doubt that Can you elaborate on why you think so ?

>>16062751
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

>>16062774
Yes , very nice but two problems :
1) monkeys are primates, very close to humans in behavior
2) it does not mean they understand the concept of payment, it means she's just unhappy with the reward - monkeys do that all the time, silly creatures

>>16062795
- A monkey is perfectly happy doing a task for cucumber.
- A monkey is no longer happy doing the task for cucumber when it sees another monkey getting paid grapes.

The monkey sees it as unfair, and protests. This implies that monkeys understand fairness, an abstract concept.

I don't see how else you could explain this behaviour.

>>16062811
I would interpret it like this :
- monkeys get jealous all the time , other social animals like cats and dogs do as well as any owner can tell you
- as soon as it knows the grapes are seen as "available" because the other monkey got them and not just a prop, the monkeys wants them and no longer wants the cucumber
Still , the little things are remarkably similar to humans . It's amazing. But I wouldn't say all mammals are

>>16062667
>No, they "torture" their pray because it's in their instinct.
satisfying their instincts is pleasurable. thats why they kill for pleasure as well as for food. hunting is fun to them regardless if they're hungry or not

>>16038352
>we wuzzing

>>16062727
it's frightening how well you managed to describe my modus operandi when online.

>>16062816
This sounds dangerously similar to when a group of extremely racist people abused the good will of other people, then pretended that they don't understand that they owe them, and insisted that tgey are nothing but animals jealous of tge fruits of their brilliance.

>>16062816
This sounds dangerously similar to when a group of extremely racist people abused the good will of other people, then pretended that they don't understand that they owe them, and insisted that they are nothing but animals jealous of the fruits of their brilliance.

>>16063869
>hunting is fun to them regardless if they're hungry or not
Yeah, a cat will play for hours with a cloth toy and it is clearly pleasurable for the animal. So will a dog.
So will chimps kill other chimps even if they aren't an immediate threat .
Are they immoral ? Again, if a mentally incapacitated man kills someone else in a tantrum, is he guilty ? Law would say no.

>>16064579
Ok, so monkeys are close to people and should be treated with appropriate consideration.
You faggots can't make up your mind.
It's either we are nothing special and animals manifest the same behavior as us in some percentages, or we are special and made by some god or whatever.
Which one is it ?

>>16064865
Hunting is fun for everyone, you've never done it because you're a sissified soiboi

>>16038359
>and metallurgy
afaik it was the portugese that introduced iron to africa

>>16038130
Everyone in this thread is a mongoloid
The IQ test used on Koko was a toddler IQ test, which means the highest intelligence Koko achieved was to be a dimwitted 3 year old.
Typical /pol/ retards think they know anything but hearsay and gossip.

>>16055212
iq is a great measure of g-factor, which is the most powerful predictive tool in all of (publicly known) psychometry.

>>16038279
>that they were actually intelligent enough to live in society with other humans
maybe a 10% of them, the rest are dumb and useless

>>16065740
West Africa
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Ferrous_Metallurgy_Sites_of_Burkina_Faso

https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Igbo-Ukwu

East Africa
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1179/009346983791504228

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233718780_More_Evidence_for_an_Advanced_Prehistoric_Iron_Technology_in_Africa

>>16065731
The best hunt is human hunt, I'm just waiting for that to become a reality
Still no answer to actual mind using questions, just some automatic insult. It's making me think that the npc meme is real, basedboy

>>16038443
no its not true fuck me man.

>>16038476
he may be black, but youre regarded

>>16038503
youre fucking retarded man just face it. every successive post i read by you proves it

>>16066066
>wikipedia
fake and gay.

>>16038144
yes

>>16038144
If an average black is somewhat smarter than an average gorilla, it follows that the smartest black in 100,000 blacks is somewhat smarter a 1-in-100,000-smart gorilla. Then, it follows that there are roughly three gorillas in the world who are only somewhat stupider than Thomas Sowell. Seems dubious.

>>16069896
>If an average black is somewhat smarter than an average gorilla, it follows that the smartest black in 100,000 blacks is somewhat smarter a 1-in-100,000-smart gorilla.
no it doesn't

>>16038130
koko the gorilla did not have an iq of 85 and couldn't understand english.

Your average (white) boomer conservative has an IQ of 90. Sleep is known to decrease IQ by 15 points. There is no way a random sleep deprived boomer conservative is dumber than a gorilla, even though they are very stupid.

>>16071385
>>16069896
ignoring the overstated fact that IQ doesn't actually measure what society typically sees as "intelligence". There are lot of examples where chimpanzees and gorillas are able to do cognitive tasks at a level that pretty much zero humans could (like the famous working memory study they did on chimps).

>>16072702
People don't have good enough peripheral vision to pass that test.

>>16071385

>>16038359
I thought Macedonians were white??

>>16073407
lmao

>>16062727
the n word is racist

>>16078460
Can you tell me why you're posting this?

>>16073407
>White People Fuck

>>16038130
Yes. It’s always seemed clear to me that all the iq estimates of animals are inherently worthless. Apples to oranges. And equally obvious that African IQs are some kind of language barrier issue. Like just look at how hard the line is between North Africa and the rest. If it were real it wouldn’t be that sudden. Even without a language barrier, everyone in the blue countries knows what “an iq test” is and would take it seriously as a measure of worth because they’ve been taught to. If you wiped the concept of an iq test from every American’s mind and gave them one they’d probably think it was a game for a buzzfeed video and not take it seriously at all. Then the brilliant scientist would mark down American iq as 80 and call it a day.

>>16078679
>Like just look at how hard the line is between North Africa and the rest.
That line is called the Sahara.

>>16038130
is there systematic bias or some issues with the norms used that lead to this result? It seems way too low to be valid

>>16078679
you're presuming africans and humans are the same species when there is ample evidence that they are not

>>16038130
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7wFotDKEF4

>>16078778
I doubt gorillas are smarter than 85 iq

>>16038352
>sandniggers are white
cringe and retarded. you will never be white.
even greeks are actually sandniggers. no amount of denial will change the genetic reality. you have clearly never looked at a genetic map. or maybe you have, and are coping by intentionally ignoring the truth. typical.
ancient greek philosophy is mediocre, by the way. only midwits are impressed by it.

Whites already believe niggers are dumber than apes, they don't need science.

>>16081527
> ancient greek philosophy is mediocre
It's the foundation of western philosophy and civilization as a whole.
si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

>>16081527
The ancient Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians were not "sandniggers." The Arab colonization of those areas was relatively recent.

>>16081756
completely wrong, and you're too stupid to ever understand why.

>>16081834
> The reason is that they don't have the same skin color as you.
> mfw

>>16039561
If Gorillas accumulate no generational knowledge in left to their own devices than why would they be more intelligent than Africans who can and have created generational knowledge from scratch

>>16081692
not possible, they are apes

>>16082070
>Gorillas accumulate no generational knowledge
Gorillas accumulate generational knowledge, they know the lay of the land and the timing of the wild foods very well and they pass that Information down to subsequent generations

>>16084451
Negroes do the same thing, they teach their kids where the welfare office is and how to get food stamps

>>16085539
Huh? I thought caseworkers did that in lieu of black parents.

>>16084451
How would they do it?

>>16085584
>caseworkers
who are negro government employees

>>16038359
can you not see the gorilla is held back by physical disabilities? it cannot talk to its fellow gorillas like humans can to fellow humans. And it does not have the body structure of a human. And I think it can't even touch it's pinky finger using it's index finger, showing that it's hands are not as flexible as a human's are, restricting their function, in terms of holding things in very precise ways.

>>16084451
Generational knowledge is mostly a fetish. It can last as long as there are elders who can check if everything is done correctly, then it begins to fall apart, which is why you now have a competency crisis, as the silents and older retire and die. All knowledge quickly decays to nonsense as soon as there isn't anybody around who actually understands the thing.

>>16087704

>>16088654
I'm not sure if you got it, and posted it to agree with me, or if you didn't get it, and think that you disagree.

>>16051118
How many white people have escaped from zoos? Zero.

Checkmate Atheists

>>16051166
I think that's an interesting question. James Flynn's entire argument that there is no genetic intelligent difference between races is based on people's IQ scores improving with environment (ignoring his clearly ideological motivation assuming it in the first place)... But isn't that a moot point if the environment is entirely created by, provide by and sustained by a particular group?

>>16053629
>>16052533
Perhaps its simply that despite what is claimed, IQ isn't the entire picture when it comes to intelligence.

>>16053670
>severe malnutrition due to colonialism and decolonization.
Colonialism didn't cause malnutrition in Africa.

>>16058813
>How are humans better ? By what metric ?
Top of the food chain. All other species live and die at the mercy of humans. We could drive orcas to extinction if we so wish, are they able to do the same to us? No. Are they even able to conceive of the idea? Also no.

>>16078679
>And equally obvious that African IQs are some kind of language barrier issue
You do know they speak english and/or french through much of sub-sahara africa just fine right? There's nothing particularly special about African languages that make them uniquely different than other languages. There are more differences between Japanese and european languages than there are between European languages and most major african languages.

>>16038130
Gorillas using sign language was always a fraud. They usually just say "food" over and over, because they know it gets them food.

>>16089210
What do you mean?
>>16089211
They actuall say "nipples".

>>16089270
The anon I replied to is essentially arguing that african's are too stupid to understand what an IQ test is and too immature to attempt it seriously, so "umm actually" their IQ is higher than their scores represent.

...It's a fucking retarded argument to make.

Neo nazis think the gorillas can hijack American military ships like Somalian pirates.

You're a bunch of Jew loving Dixie hicks who are geniuses in your own minds.

>>16089355
I was asking what you meant that European languages are less different from Japanese than they are from African languages.

>>16089355
I was asking what you meant that European languages are more different from Japanese than they are from African languages.

>>16089375
I'm saying there are more differences in the grammar and alphabet between, say, French and Japanese, than there are between French and Swahili.

Obviously there's many european languages and thousands of african languages, so some are more similar or different than others, but the point is that african languages aren't somehow uniquely far removed from european languages that no one has ever been able to translate an IQ test properly.

>>16089360
>hijack American military ships like Somalian pirates

>>16045823
Heritability of adult IQ is not 1, it's ~0.8. 160 IQ hyper niggers would have children with an average IQ of 144.

The psychological differences between blacks and whites are not limited to IQ. It does not explain the entirety of the crime rate disparity. Blacks seem to be more psychopathic than whites of equal intelligence.

>>16038130
I don't care about the race-baiting in this thread I just want to make sure you are all aware that coco and other gorillas could never communicate effectively or potentially at all with sign language. All that shit was just blown up for the press. Sure they learnt signs and had some vague idea of how it works, but for the most part they just were just randomly signing gibberish until they got whatever it is they felt the need to gesture for. They just simply learnt what gestures got them what they wanted, and would repeat them until they got it, often changing and trying other signs at random when they couldn't get what they wanted. they could never communicate, it was just clever yet simplistic reward seeking behaviour. You should not be surprised by this, the frontal lobe of humans is much greater in size than that of other apes, our brains are developed specifically to understand language and only us.

>>16089633
Pavlovian conditioning

>>16090135
Just like the horse that could count and do math
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans

>>16038130
Kek