/sci/ - Science & Math

>>16070555
Unironically, I would turn public schools and universities into more of a proper liberal arts education.

If you get a bachelor's degree and you haven't done a basic calculus course and some basics of probability/statistics, you haven't learned enough math to do simple problem solving.

If you're doing a STEM degree and you haven't done a few basic philosophy, language, and psychology courses, you don't understand enough about science functions to properly understand the meaning and limitations of your field. I think requiring some basics of philosophy for STEM majors would really help with the "confusing the map for the territory" problem that seems to be ubiquitous at the moment (especially in physics and comp sci for some reason).

>>16070555
Seems like a motivation problem.
Solution: Make them be alone with their head and without distractions.
Then tell them to think about any kind of problem they like (geometry, algebra, engineering, whatever). They will get their phones back when they got the solution.
Allowed resources: teacher (only actual questions allowed), book

Problem solved.

>>16070555
Bring back segregation.

>>16070555
>1-4
arithmetic, geometry, language, lots of sports, general knowledge (geography, history, science)
>5-10
functions (trig functions, polynomials), vectors, second language, more sports, history+science (fuck the details, just get a broad picture, history for context what the people were thinking about)
>10-12
calc+physics (derive ode, show solution and consequences), philosophy, literature, rest elective

>>16070555
get rid of multiple choice questions

>>16070619
>no proofs
have fun with a generation of human calculators that can't do math for shit

>>16070555
Bring back the New Math except teach it earlier.

>>16070555
ban smartphones?

>>16070671
What do you think they'd do when studying functions, vectors and calc?
But lots of proofs are unnecessary. There's no need to abstract things that are immediately obvious.

>>16070555
I refuse to believe American public schools are this bad.

Teach them Soviet style
see picrel for a russian 4th grade math textbook
https://homeschoolmath.blogspot.com/2007/12/word-problems-in-russia-and-in-america.html

>>16070555
Most of these posts assume the average kid is smart or gives a shit about school. You need options for the dimwits/slackers, the midwits, and genuinely gifted people

Double the pay of teachers while increasing their standards (a lot of elementary/middle school teachers can't even add fractions)

Remove incentives to push kids forward. If a high schooler is functionallly illiterate hold them back or eventually kick them out

Use a similar system to the germans, highschoolers can either do academic stuff or vocational classes for trades

In math education, emphasize proofs over mindless computation

>>16070749
>dimwits/slackers and midwits
Menial labor
>Gifted people
Education.

>>16070686
>"Find two consecutive numbers whose product is 42."
>Third-grade kids should know multiplication well enough to quickly find that 6 and 7 fit the problem! Why use a "backhoe" (algebra) for a problem you can solve using a "small spade" (simple multiplication)!
i know what he's trying to say but he's incorrect. using algebra you can learn that there are actually two solutions to this problem (6 & 7 or -7 & -6). something that might not be intuitive by just trying to work it out in your head

>>16070555
not my problem
hope children get dumber than me to exploit them

>>16070563
So the basic model already present in the US

1) Women and inferior races barred
2) Early filtering by IQ into remedial/general/advanced groups.
3) Prayer
4) Mandatory physical education/gym
5) Targeted education towards IQ class. Vocation training for remedial/general. Academic for advanced.
6) Return corporal punishment for disobedience at teachers discretion
7) Self-esteem no longer primary focus

>>16070555
Boomer here:
>k-8 only: teacher, chalkboard/whiteboard (none of that media board crap), pencils, papers, books. That is literally all you need. No damn smartphones allowed on penalty of death. No infinite gender bathrooms. School uniforms mandatory and will be gender specific, girls will have dresses/skirts only.
>high school: boys will do 4 quarters each year of useful skills such as mechanics, plumbing, construction, electrical etc. Girls will nursing related and other occupations they would traditionally do.

>>16070563
>If you're doing a STEM degree and you haven't done a few basic philosophy, language, and psychology courses
did you not have gen eds or something

>>16070563
>few basic philosophy, language, and psychology courses
Besides foreign languages all my non-stem classes were retardedly easy, I unironically learned more from reading Republic and kant in my free time than from any humanities class ive taken. I agree with your overall point though, the bar just needs to be raised everywhere

>>16070784
>1
Jews and Asians only got it
>2
Make 1 redundant
>3
Waste time
>4
Too general. Replace with scouts.
>5
Low IQ point since it's the logical course of 2.
>6
Pointless if you don't have nigs
>7
Good idea.

>>16070555
the curriculum is not really the issue, or at least not the primary issue. in my experience the issue is
>students who don't want to learn
>teachers who don't want to teach OR
>teachers who have poor understanding of what they're teaching

Is that redditard teacher willing to post the demographics of his students who could and couldn't do those tasks?

>>16070784
Other than 1 and 7 (and maybe 6), these are fucking retarded.

>>16070680
Proofs don't abstract shit. Any approach to math that obscures logic is bound to fail.

>>16071482
You don't need epsilon-delta to show what limits are, you don't need to prove convergence when showing high schoolers Fourier transformations for the first time and you dont need Picard-Lindelöf when talking about ode's.
If the proof is longer than 5 lines nobody in the class room is going to follow you, because nobody cares.
Leave it for later.

>>16070555
That problem is EZ AF to solve. Just cut in half their budget every year they fail to get better, and crucify 10'000 socialists, jews, and faggot trash infecting public education every time they dare to make problems.

>>16071508
I remember being shown the epsilon delta definition of limits in school and found it to be intuitively clear, we were just never expected to prove anything with it.
We can argue all day over how heavily proof-based math in schools should be, I still think that, in the very least, there needs to be an emphasis on theorems and reasoning using well-known theorems (as opposed to, say, hundreds of copy-pasted problems on computing the derivative of some function). You shouldn't have to wait till university to learn of the mean value theorem or even basic predicate logic. Something like induction is really powerful too and not all that hard to introduce to high schoolers imo.

>>16070563
Amazing you needed all that to tell us you don't have a degree of your own. "Well rounded education" is BS and just encourages all of the bachelor level classes to be useless swill.

>>16070602

>>16070555
Corporal punishments. 18th century military discipline. Running the gauntlet on anyone misbehaving.

>>16071589
I have a BSE and a master's (and am almost done with my PhD).

I genuinely am gobsmacked by how little my peers know about how their own field functions because of their historical and philosophical illiteracy.

>>16070798
We did have gen eds, but they were literal meme tier in quality (with the exception of one archaeology course that was genuinely cool and the professor actually tried to make the class challenging).

Our school had a mandatory "intro to philosophy and ethics" course that everyone did in their sophomore year, but the curriculum was low quality, heavily weighted towards 20th century thinkers, and gave people very little proper understanding of philosophy.

A genuinely challenging "history of science" or "philosophy of science" course would make a huge difference if students actually engaged and took time to understand how scientific thinkers from the past engaged with the world.

>>16070781
Not quite.

I think the US model is close, but is generally lacking in rigor in the humanities. Most of the gen eds I took in my undergrad were easy to the point of being pointless, meanwhile there were actually challenging history and philosophy topics that were easy to find by casually browsing/lit/.

It shouldn't be the case that a loose hobbyist approach to learning the history of philosophy and history of science provides a more useful education than a bachelor's degree.