/sci/ - Science & Math

its real but probably not big guy in the sky kinda real

>>16064141
I think we're curious just like God. When we can run quantum simulations we most likely will.

>>16064141
Uncauseable cause, theres gotta be one at some point. ggez, next question.

Everything that can ever happen, under any set of laws of physics, happening all at once, eternally, in every conceivable order.

>>16064141
>what created this whole thing
it's a God
>what do you think God is
what created this whole thing

how/what/why/where is a mystery

>>16064162
But why does God exist as opposed to not existing?

>>16064141
God is whatever you bend your knee to, whatever you say is 'divine'
Science doesn't deal with these axiological questions

God created the universe and Satan fucked it up, and now different things in the universe were created by both of them.

>>16064172
Or either of them, I should say.

The universe is a summation of total potential. Anything that can exist does exist, at all times, always, in its own fabric. Why we're observing this particular slice of reality is a mystery, but it's all happening at once, simultaneously, in ever order. Almost like the code to a video game, where it's all already there, but the player is required to render its programmed potentialities.

>>16064141
the real question is who created the creator? and if you say it always existed then why not say that about the universe and bring up a god instead?

>>16064175
>Anything that can exist does exist, at all times, always, in its own fabric. Why we're observing this particular slice of reality is a mystery, but it's all happening at once, simultaneously, in ever order.
Retarded word salad

>>16064170
>why is there something rather than nothing
the most fundamental of the unanswerable philosophical questions
God doesn't answer it ofc
>>16064155
>>16064184
nothing but window dressing just to call their window dressing 'God'

>>16064175

Seems that way, yeah. Universe is a fractal-like data set of all possible, physics bound energymatter configurations happening simultaneously.

>>16064195
but like, what if a tree falls and no one hears it.

>>16064184
>I'm too retarded to understand the words you're using so fuck you

>>16064201
why should we call your definition as God rather than the second word you used in your sentence, universe?

>>16064201
You made up a long sentence to say absolutely nothing of subtance
>It exists because it le has to
So why do some things "have to exist" while others don't?

>>16064204
>It exists because it le has to
ontological arguments still exist in 2024, lol

>>16064204
>It exists because it le has to
Where did I say this?

>>16064204
>absolutely nothing of substance
I'm sorry you don't understand words

>>16064204
>So why do some things "have to exist" while others don't?
nta but in a weird way for me it makes more sense that literally everything that can exist, exists, and we are but a slice of that, as compared to only and exactly us existing, instead of anything else. the same as looking at the skies and thinking there fucking must be life out there, somewhere. the chances we're the absolute first here is more frightening in a schizo way even.

>>16064216
>>16064219
>can god be "not the summation of all things", can there be a universe where there is no god?
>ofc not
>therefore god has to exist by definition
>where did i say that god has to exist?
lol

>>16064204
>>16064224 me
so it's not enough that this universe exists with no fucking explanation, which is insanely bizarre in itself, on top of this fucking weirdness, there's us on top of it, which is another completely out of place shit which doesn't seem to have happened based on what we know/seen so far out there.

>>16064202

"God" a german word that simply means the infinite power of creation, is the universe. This was made Scripturally clear by the line, "In the beginning was the word and the word was God". Now, of course, the universe had no beginning since time is a construct of consciousness (but that's another discussion - and yes the big bang is indeed religious Catholic-invented hogwash... redshift is a fractal derivative as is CMB - this universe is essentially a fractal), but SCRIPTURALLY the line is clear - God is the "mathematical language" of this universe - and this universe IS that language.

>>16064229
God is a word and concept created by humans. Reality is what we exist in and are a part of. "God" may very well be the universe in its total summation, as I described it.

>>16064230
>so it's not enough that this universe exists with no fucking explanation
that's just you
i'm perfectly fine with the universe being the undreamed possible dream of no particular dreamer

>>16064233
>>16064235
you are free to bend your knee and assign sacredness to the mathematics of this universe; mathematicians are the most faithful of the hard sciences after all, it's in your nature
i, on the other hand, find no use for it and reject it wholesale; if god wants me to bend, he can do it himself

>>16064235
>. "God" may very well be the universe in its total summation, as I described it

Correct. And though I am also not religious, I understand tact, and this has scriptural precedent: "in the beginning was the word and the word was God", i.e. God us the "mathematical" language of the universe - though, of course, our concept of math is also a derivative human construct... the universe's language is far more pure than our crude numbers invented to take census and count grain and taxes.

Attempting to understand the nature of reality, that is, why there is something rather than nothing, is like trying to teach a squirrel to code. Our brains are extremely structurally similar, but there is a cognitive divide. Coding is something very simple to human beings, and outside the realm of comprehension to squirrels. Similarly, understanding the fundamental explanation of reality may be to us like teaching a squirrel to code, if not magnified a hundred fold.

>>16064240

Oh please. I'm not bending my knee to Spinoza's God. I simply have tact. What we are discussing is the next stage of human thought and it must be described palatably.

>>16064241
So math is a language we humans invented to describe a reality we cannot fully understand to the best of our abilities.

>>16064247
tact: a keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense.
imagine being so afraid to offend a figment of your imagination kek

did we collapse the universe this way? by looking at it through telescopes and shit

>>16064250
>So math is a language we humans invented to describe a reality we cannot fully understand to the best of our abilities.

Essentially, yes. First we used words to describe, then numbers, then computation... but our universe is far more exact than all three of those... whatever "language" is generating us *laughs* at the crude glitches in our math that relys on irrational numbers, etc... for example, our math cannot get to the end of Pi, but the universe calculates such sums perfectly and exactly at the speed of light.

>>16064245
you misunderstand
part of why "why is there something rather than nothing" is so fundamental in its unanswerability is because it's not a question of processing power
anyone from any isekai universe will be unable to answer this question, from the most powerful of all beings to the poorest farmer

>>16064252
>tact: a keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense.
I am tact-impaired fr

>>16064252

Tell it to the ghost of Giordano Bruno.

>>16064262
you're better off showing tact to the IRS rather than to some mathematical formulas that's for sure

>>16064256
I agree. So anyway, why is there something rather than nothing?

>>16064265
>why is there something rather than nothing?
i don't know, it's unanswerable
and to say the answer is god is laughable at best

>>16064266
I'm not saying it's God, but let's have some fun and come up with some ideas.

>God is a concept
>by which
>we measure
>our pain

>I'll say it again

John Lennon

>>16064267
i'm handsome i guess

>>16064264
>you're better off showing tact to the IRS rather than to some mathematical formulas that's for sure

Few understand how corrupted "the sciences" are by religion to this day. They pledge to God every morning at school. It's on the money. And they think that's the end if it. No. They don't give second thought to our entire western government, court and Fed system being comprised of the religious. They don't consider what that entails.

Big bang theory is perhaps the prime example at the moment. CERN another - the LHC is almost entirely a religious artifact. It's difficult to even discuss without sounding like a Schizo. But those who truly study this stuff from a philosophical, exterior, "passionless" perspective are privy to it...

Point being: to discuss the TRUTH openly in this next stage of thought... about our infinite and eternal fractal, logic-based universe... I think it will take tact.

>>16064276
>what are the consequences of me not showing tact to your mathematics?
>uh, none
>oh ok
some god lol

>>16064265
>why is there something rather than nothing?

The universe appears to be an infinite, fractal-like dataset of all possible diffusion/condensation configurations, simultaneously. Why? I don't know. But I suspect diffusion/condensation is the only logical "physics system"... and the universe is all possible sets of that.

>>16064180
>BUT THEN WHO CREATED THE CREATOR?
>JUST PASSING THE QUESTION DOWN THE ROAD!
nah, stop equating your set of knowledge for God's. A creator deity by definition has the explanation of the ultimate origin

>>16064286
>A creator deity by definition has the explanation of the ultimate origin
and if there is ultimate origin there must also be the ultimate end
aka the death of your god
>nuh uh god is immortal and things just go on forever
an infinite regress of causes is as logically possible as an infinite progress of effects

>>16064278

It's not God one should be worried about. Ask the ghost of Giordano Bruno.

I will say that once you break free of the chains created by religion, including many of the invisible chains that few even know exist (& I'm sure there are many I still haven't identified yet)...

... don't be surprised if you realize how... "evil" this civilization is. For lack of a better word. It can cause a mental meltdown. It can make one dangerous. I don't blame the powers that be to try and maintain order... they achieve that order through acts so horrific that they become scrubbed from the internet even today when discussed openly leaving only an outline... "why did the Bush & Bin Ladin families coown a hedgefund?" "Why were Afghan farms really burned down if we can buy poppy seeds on Amazon? Was it genocide?". The real battleground is the ability to question at all, and so to be tactful one must question without appearing as if one is questioning.

>>16064286
Explain the logic behind your God
>inb4 I don't need to, he's the almighty lord and savior

>>16064290
>no heavenly fire consumes me as i, an irreverent nonbeliever, blaspheme on 4chan
>reduced to giving excuses
yeah, IRS>god

>>16064290
The Bush and bin Laden families worked in cahoots since the early 70's. They were both in on 9/11. The US, Saudi, Israeli, and British governments orchestrated a false flag operation in America to advance mutual financial and geopolitical interests in the middle east. Osama bin Laden played his part, the Saudi "hijackers" played their parts, Bush and Cheney played their parts, and the whole thing went off without a hitch.

>>16064295

And yet Churches don't pay taxes. That's another "dangerous" rabbit hole to go down

>>16064300
yeah i know churches don't pay taxes and i think they should
what's your point?

>>16064299
>The Bush and bin Laden families worked in cahoots since the early 70's. They were both in on 9/11. The US, Saudi, Israeli, and British governments orchestrated a false flag operation in America to advance mutual financial and geopolitical interests in the middle east. Osama bin Laden played his part, the Saudi "hijackers" played their parts, Bush and Cheney played their parts, and the whole thing went off without a hitch.

Make a video about that and post it to YouTube. See how far it gets before getting a takedown notice. Why do you think the gov is scrambling to ban TikTok? It's not to prevent false info from spreading. It's to prevent true info from spreading.

>>16064289
>BEGINNINGS MUST HAF ENDS
no, child

>>16064299
>>16064307

What I'm simply saying is 911 is one of the more brazen examples... but there are more. There is a whole litany of "heresy" in the sciences that can get one banned / shadowbanned.

>>16064309
>god doesn't end cuz i said so
no, gramps

>>16064307
Correct

It's funny, there's only a number of select topics youtube provides a context warning over: covid, 9/11, January 6th

Am I missing anything?

>>16064311
HIV/AIDS.

>>16064305
>yeah i know churches don't pay taxes and i think they should
>what's your point?

Start sniffing around major churches / religions... investigating where their money comes from... how its distributed... see how far you get...

... did you know that the director of CERN is a Vatican appointee - ots public knowledge that you'd probably get called a bigot for talking to openly about. But then again... if religion has no affect on scientific thought than why is it invested in science?

... did you know that Giordano Bruno was burned alive for theorizing N infinite & eternal universe in 1600, and there gas been no apology to thus day, and that the big bang theory was invented by a priest at the time Bruno's murderer (inquisitor) was being sainted and canonized. The Pope even staked the credibility of his multitrillion dollar religion on the theory.

Tact.

>>16064326
yes, i know evil and injustice exist in the world
what does this have to do with god existing?
arguments from evil disprove god, not the other way around

>>16064320
>HIV/AIDS

Yeah, probably... that was one of the things I looked into after my awakening. Didn't look too deeply into it because it was making me sick to my stomach and I had already accepted how "evil" everything is, besides.

>>16064328
>god

God is just a German word. But atheism is another trap. There is something truly astounding happening in this universe. It is for all intents and purposes a miracle

>>16064332
>There is something truly astounding happening in this universe. It is for all intents and purposes a miracle
feel free to bend your knee like the faithful of old then
it's all just a cool lightshow to me

>>16064320
>HIV/AIDS

Feel free to go off on this topic. I'm interested

>>16064337
>feel free to bend your knee like the faithful of old then
>it's all just a cool lightshow to me

You will never truly create - only rearrange. Never will our species truly create. What word do you prefer for an Ability that will now and forever be outside human ability - and even the ability of our wildest technologies?

>>16064340
just because god can do a lot of cool things doesn't mean he deserves the bending of my knee
again, if he wants my reverence, he can show up to my room and demand it
or maybe he can have giordano bruno do it for him, god loves proxies after all

>>16064330
>>16064338
HIV is likely a harmless passenger retrovirus that takes advantage of already weakened immune systems in individuals of select populations that has been used as a scapegoat by government agencies and pharmaceutical companies as the cause of AIDS to justify the multi-billion dollar industry of AIDS treatment. Not dissimilar to what's happened with covid. And that is the tip of the iceberg.

>>16064343
>giordano bruno

Maybe do some research on Giordano Bruno first, lol

>>16064354
why would i?
i'm not the one demanding to be revered here
again, if the divine wants my respect, then they're free to come to my house
don't be offended on their behalf for my irreverence lol

>>16064343
>>16064354

But yes, if God has martyrs & prophets - the REAL God as in the truth of the universe - then Bruno was certainly one of them!

>>16064357

I feel like you are cuffed by one of those invisible chains I talked about earlier. YOU are the divine. We all are. Even *sigh* the bushes & Bin ladins of the world

>>16064359
i'm not going to bend my knee to your god that had bruno burned at the stake, lol

>>16064350

Would make sense...

>>16064361
i'm still not bending my knee though

>>16064371
>i'm still not bending my knee though

Why would *I* want you to do that? I'm a philosopher not some religious nutcase

>>16064365
Look up the work of Peter Duesberg and Kary Mullis (Nobel Prize winner for the invention of PCR). Also, Luc Montagnier, the man who discovered the HIV virus, eventually came around to the idea that his virus was not actually the causal agent of AIDS.

>>16064375
then don't be angry that some people have no use for god, and don't claim that we're actually "in denial" and that "we just don't know it" lol
i'm not even arguing with you that god doesn't exist, you can keep bending your knee for as long as you want
i've lived without god for more than 20 years just fine

>>16064330
What woke you up, and why?

>>16064381

You are strawmanning me, lol. I am *essentially* an atheist with the exception that I think our universe is semantically miraculous.

You see, I'm *stealing* these words back. Miracle. Gift. Divine. Martyr. Even God. These should be OUR words.

I'm not asking anyone to bend the knee.

I'm a philosopher. Like Bruno.

Bruno was a fucking badass. You should look him up. A true martyr of enlightenment.

>>16064386
>I am *essentially* an atheist with the exception that I think our universe is semantically miraculous.
then i take it you have no qualm with an atheist like me, who doesn't think our universe is anything special?

>>16064386
>Bruno

Tounge was cut out, hung upside down and burned alive by the church. His last words before sentencing were, "You give my sentence with more fear than I receive it". Because he knew that history would redeem him... no matter how long it took. He was right. And they were wrong.

Even more badass: he remains a heretic to this day. There has never been a formal apology for Bruno's execution. And all he did was speak his mind in goodwill & faith.

>>16064388
>then i take it you have no qualm with an atheist like me, who doesn't think our universe is anything special?

Hell no! Lol! We are natural allies! I mean... I think the whole species should be allied, but yeah. No problems at all

>>16064394
ah we have no problems then, carry on :)

>>16064378
>Look up the work of Peter Duesberg and Kary Mullis (Nobel Prize winner for the invention of PCR). Also, Luc Montagnier, the man who discovered the HIV virus, eventually came around to the idea that his virus was not actually the causal agent of AIDS.

Interesting...

>>16064378
>eventually came around to the idea that his virus was not actually the causal agent of AIDS.


What's the causal agent, theoretically?

Why are the threads where the topic is unfalsifiable the most popular threads? Some people seem so confident in their answers too

>>16064410
i'm the guy who says god is whatever you bend your knee to
you got an argument against it?

>>16064405
The thing about AIDS (Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome - key word: syndrome) is that it is a collection of symptoms rather than one determinate disease. It usually manifests as a gradual weakening of the immune system, and more frequent opportunistic bacterial and viral infections, eventually resulting in death. In the early days, one of the key markers of the syndrome was Kaposi's Sarcoma, a skin tumor that was almost universally seen in AIDS patients, alongside a variety of other immunodeficiency syndromes, like pneumonia. But depending on what population you're looking at, and where, the criteria for an AIDS diagnosis differs. For instance, after the AIDS phenomenon exploded, in Africa, contrary to testing methods in North America and Europe (Antibody, PCR, and T-cell count), any disease with similar or identical symptoms to AIDS (like TB or Syphilis) was formally diagnosed as AIDS, whether or not HIV was detected in the bloodstream, or even tested for.

In short, HIV has been used as a scapegoat for the epidemic of immunodeficiency illnesses across the globe since the early 1980's. In the US, considering most of the early cases (and most cases today) are among gays and drug users, it is likely a result of the immuno-supressant effects of chronic drug use and venereal disease, and in Africa and Asia, a reclassification of preexisting viral and bacterial illnesses, potentially exacerbated by modern drug use and malnutrition, under the umbrella of AIDS.

Furthermore, many of the early drugs used to treat AIDS, like AZT, and I suspect many of the drugs still being used to treat AIDS today, are toxic and immunosuppressant, and contribute to the symptoms of the syndrome. Like a viscious (but profitable) circle.

>>16064429
>Syphilis

This was my first thought when you mentioned the skin condition and weakening immune system...

>>16064429
>Furthermore, many of the early drugs used to treat AIDS, like AZT, and I suspect many of the drugs still being used to treat AIDS today, are toxic and immunosuppressant, and contribute to the symptoms of the syndrome. Like a viscious (but profitable) circle.

Pure evil... like the covid ventilators weakening the lungs and making the patient even more compromised...

... this reminds me of something... alzheimers has been reversed in lab animals using high dose penicillin. Penicillin is of course extremely cheap... I'll let you take a guess if this has been suitability explored or discussed as a treatment option for humans.

>>16064443
>... this reminds me of something... alzheimers has been reversed in lab animals using high dose penicillin. Penicillin is of course extremely cheap... I'll let you take a guess if this has been suitability explored or discussed as a treatment option for humans.

https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/neurosciences-articles/antibiotic-treatment-alleviates-alzheimers-disease-symptoms-in-male-mice

>>16064443
And how covid patients were poisoned with remdesivir, and still are. Oh, and don't forget Paxlovid, which happens to use ritonavir, a protease inhibitor used to treat HIV patients.

>>16064446

I took the shot because I had to for work. I got my first blood clot a few days later. Right leg. Hospital refused to admit correlation of course.

>>16064384
>What woke you up, and why?

Just way too much led me to realize that no one was "in charge" and it was on me. The more "me" I became the more critically I looked at things... after I learned that the Pakistan General who paid the hijckrs was meeting with our own government the day it happened there was no going back... but there is so much more I've learned too. I had a meltdown. But I *accept* it now. We are fundamentally apes. We do ape like things sometimes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jul/22/usa.september11

>>16064454
I'm sorry you were pressured and coerced into such an unnecessary personal medical decision. I hope your health has recovered since, or will recover. Don't ever forget what they did, and don't ever let them forget. EVER. That is the key. And live the healthiest life you can from here on out.

>>16064460
We do ape like things all the time. Universally, in fact, because we are apes. But the average person does not want to accept the true nature of the world for what it is. They do not want to accept their banal contributions to the evil of the world, or that the world itself is evil, with or without them.

"Be careful not to stare too deeply into the void lest it stare back at you."

>>16064462
>Don't ever forget what they did, and don't ever let them forget. EVER. That is the key. And live the healthiest life you can from here on out.

I'm essentially fine now, I think. I'm not interested in *revenge* but I also cannot imagine how *they* can earn my trust back now.

I've been learning a lot since my awakening... one thing is I no longer shame myself or doubt myself. There people "in charge" are so evil, and im a good person, so there is nothing I could do that would ever *rise* to that level - there is nothing they could ever say to me to make me ever trust in their authority over my own.

>>16064472
>"Be careful not to stare too deeply into the void lest it stare back at you."

Yep

>>16064141
Read the Gateway Assessment report's page 25, it's all spelled out in there laddo

I created the universe. I'm a little kid from another universe.Our time works differently so I'm 1,000,000 years old in your universe years but here we still play with toy universes at school; you were my project on warfare; wait till the Assholes from Andromeda visit you in 2032 lol..

>>16064488
Let me guess, Christ is king?

God is everything except for that guy in the Bible that was someone else.

>>16064536
The book is made up stories

>>16064180

>>16064141
God is consciousness (Elemental Elementalism 33.2).

>>16064362
>i'm not going to bend my knee to your god that had bruno burned at the stake, lol
It was the catholic church. Satan has made the religions, nearly all of them. It shows the amount of brainwash confuse them with the the almighty (who do not demand anything from you, thinking so would be profanity). Only religions demand worshipping for their soulless, blasphemy exploitation of your believes.

>>16064141
Advanced aliens, higher dimensional beings, some kind of primordial beings
Most likely nothing