/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15992572
If only there was some kind of study that could explain that to you...

>>15992572
Almost like an AI is writing the news with a social engineering prerogative

>>15992572
this is hypothetical because these things are obviously somewhat agenda driven.
But If I specialised in horticulture production I would have hyper optimised protocols and would be buying everything wholesale instead of from some retail shop with an insane markup

>>15992572
Here's the study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s44284-023-00023-3
Read it or ask ChatGPT.

>>15992572
it never was about reducing CO2 though?
arent there reports about council officials requesting people to destroy their home gardening beds because they dont meet council requirements, or that your not allowed to farm on residentially zoned areas?
someone link this

>>15992572
>how is it possible for the carbon footprint of homegrown food to be 500% greater

Maybe if you read the article instead of screen capping it you'd be able to tell us.

What does /sci/ think of foodscaping?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WGmd8xHXTc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foodscaping

I'm trying to maximize my carbon output.
>own chickens
>own garden
>own pond
>two trucks

I want to increase it even further, how would I go about doing this?

co2 output of a tractor over 1000 acres is a lot less per kiloof grown food than the family car you used to pick up the seeds and fert averaged over your garden

>>15992857
>nature.com
that explains everything, its political propaganda thinly disguised as science

>>15992984
No one goes to a store just to pick up seeds. They would do other shopping as well.

>>15992971
Light everything you own on fire

>>15992608
>>15992794
>>15993374
>Hurr de ddurr muh agenda
Meanwhile:
>However, some UA crops (for example, tomatoes) and sites (for example, 25% of individually managed gardens) outperform conventional agriculture. These exceptions suggest that UA practitioners can reduce their climate impacts by cultivating crops that are typically greenhouse-grown or air-freighted, maintaining UA sites for many years, and leveraging circularity (waste as inputs).
They're saying go ahead and do it, only do it right, you fucking twats

>>15992572
>>15992857
>>15992984
The abstract acknowledges that a quarter of urban agriculture plots outperformed conventional agriculture plots and points out that some crops, like tomatoes, were always less carbon intensive in urban agriculture plots. Likely because tomatoes are mostly water and are harvested by underpaid agricultural workers instead of a combine.

>>15992946
It's an improvement on landscaping for sure.

>>15993393
Not necessarily. A lot of people have their seeds mailed to them or go to gardening stores for seeds, fertilizer, and maybe some yard decorations or new tools. I go to a seed shipping warehouse for will-call orders. I definitely can't do any other shopping there.

If you have a garden make sure you're composting or vermicomposting. It will greatly reduce the amount of fertilizer you need and will improve your soil. Adding uncharged biochar (or lump charcoal, used as a bulking agent or crushed) to your compost or vermicompost will also help prevent nutrients from leeching out of your soil which will further reduce the amount of fertilizer you need each year as well as reduce the amount of methane and nitrous oxide released during composting.

>>15993661
Im sure fucking farmers can afford green houses and air freight and the land for it

Typically more technology, without concern for the poor typical corpo-state agitprop

>>15992572
it just IS, ok ? now stop trying to grow your own food!
https://www.bitchute.com/video/jyPwh4Xaaihj/

>>15992572
500 percent is 6 fold not 5

>>15992572
they probably buy all their shit from china and ship it here. if they would just buy carbon tax credits instead, the shipping emissions would magically disappear from all science data.

>>15992572
>Use the same resources
>But also a shitload of extremely inefficient human labor lol
>Achieve 20% yield
Yeah it's a mystery

This kind of grotesquely jewish social engineering should be fucking illegal
>inefficient human labor
bro just pull the shit out the fucking ground

>>15992572
>plant takes CO2 from the air and makes food out of it
>locally produced, local organic fertilizer, no gas used
>lower density with lower water usage
>some city rat shits out a "study" to persecute the ideal independent ecofriendly food producer, because the city rat is really a son of Satan
>some retarded vaxxed sci posters quickly agreed with the "study"
Lol bonus if the urbanites are vegan

Here's a protip to save on fertilizer costs.
Save your shit.
No really. Human shit is great fertilizer, along with your urine. Don't flush your waste away down the toilet! Here's what you do: Buy two or three big steel drums. Like those 44 gallon ones. Take your shits into a pot or bucket and then empty into the big drum. Same with your piss. Urinate into some suitable container like a large coffee mug and add it to the drum. I mean you can cut out the middle man and do it directly into the drum if you like but that can be awkward.
You can also add stuff like table scraps, banana skins, apple cores, tea leaves, and coffee grinds if you like.
So then keep doing this until the drum is about half full, then seal it. This should take anywhere from 4 to 6 months. Now start on your second drum. About once a month roll the first drum around a bit so as to give the contents a good stir. When your second drum is getting near half full empty out the first drum onto your veggie plots and garden. Its will be nicely composted by then. Mix into the soil with a spade. A quick rinse with a garden hose and your first drum is ready to go again!
Now water your plots and wait about two weeks. Then plant all your veggies and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Nothing tastes quite like vegetables grown using your own piss and shit!

>>15994035
You need reading comprehension.

>>15992984
I think people who grow stuff at home buy the seeds/ fert along with their usual grocery. so no (or only little if you detour to another shop) additional mileage.

>>15994669
Terrible advice. Your method will create a foul anoxic sludge and your garden will smell like a sewer.
For composting your shit, you want to add generous amounts of carbon, like sawdust, leaf litter, straw. Best to build a double chamber composting toilet, but drums will work. Adding charcoal improves the compost. Using worms will produce best results.
Separate the urine. You dont want it to be too moist or it will get anoxic and stink. Urine can be diluted 1:10 with water and applied directly as a fert. Properly constructed and maintained composting toilets dont smell.
Resting time for the compost is a year to be on the safe side. It will be completely safe and smell like soil at that point.
I wouldn't want to use manure of anyone who takes birthcontrol or medication. That stuff is persistent.
I like to use it to fertilize trees. Its far removed from any food that way. If you really want to use it for veggie gardens, use it as a lower layer when building new beds. One human produces around 1m3 a year that way.
Read "The humanure handbook" for moreinsights

>>15992946
Based. Lawns are cancer

>>15992572
>more efficient to grow onions
>more efficient to grow bugs
>I love thermodynamics.
>waiting for recycled organic matter IV drip
>I fucking love science

>>15994669
This >>15995204

A rule of thumb is that composting reduces the pathogenic load by 90%, more if you age it as anon suggested. It's typically recommended that you compost human waste three times before applying it to food crops, preferably using different methods. You may try bokashi (anaerobic fermentation), to vermicomposting, to hot composting and you may want to include and aging period. Adding charcoal is an excellent suggestion that will help composting microbes produce heat and reduce the pathogenic load.

>>15992572
Because they're shipping all that consumer grade fertilizer to 10,000 walmarts so someone living in the suburbs can then drive 20 more miles and LARP as a farmer in their backyard.

Gardens are what women think farming is. It's a lifestyle hobby, like knitting.

>>15992572
Gardening is toy farming. It's for children. (women are children)

>>15995351
>>15995354
Half a hectare of properly designed and maintained garden can produce 70-80% of the food for a family of 3-4 with 0.5-1h of work a day.
It's what was the normal thing to survive of for most humans since we settled down and still is for a lot of people that cant rely on wageslaving and supermarkets like the common western urbanite.
You produce healthier, tastier and more diverse food than you can buy anywhere.
Ask a russian about their dacha or a peruvian about their milpa.
The main problem that makes it a meme in western countries is that the vast majority of people have forgotten about basic life skills.

>>15994520
Imagine you're a nigger "homegrowing" sugar cane on your personal field. A year passes and it's time to harvest. Instead of having a tractor cut it and pile it you hire 5 more niggers to put the field on fire and pick up the canes.

Of course that's inefficient you fucking nigger. The moment industrial harvesting becomes harmful to the environment is when it starts making more just to feed fat bastards, starts planting some overpriced luxury crop or is being grown to be transformed to make useless industrial shit like palm oil.

>>15995516
You don't homegrow to compete with industrial monoculture crops. Stuff like sugar, wheat and oil is much cheaper to buy than yo grow, so you grow more valuable crops that you cant easily buy.
That said, its not that hard to grow a little sugarcane. Its a gras, so it grows with little care and very fast. If you buy a press, you can harvest a few wheelbarrows full each month, press it to sugarcane juice, ferment it and distill your own rum. That way it actually makes sense, because while alcohol is cheap to produce at scale, it's not cheap to buy due to high taxes.

>>15995704
Why do that when you can just use mushy fruit like slavs do?

>>15995719
Depends on your climate, land, available crops and preferences. You can use most fruit, potatoes, corn, grain, agave... Sugar cane is very productive though and ferments clean with little methanol, so its good for distilling. Only needs a one time investment for a press and a still.

>>15992971
Heat your home with burning tires.

>>15995731
>little methanol
That's a really big plus for an amateur

>>15995516
A lot of crops are harvested by hand at every scale.

>>15995763
no they aren't

>>15992572
>climate change propaganda against backyard chickens for eggs
>climate change propaganda against growing you own food
Why is all climate change "news" always against personal independence and self-reliance?
It's almost like they want people dependant on the system to the point they have no other option but to do whatever the system says.

>>15996802
Yes they are. Look it up. Pretty much the only things not harvested by hand are grasses, grains, and crops that are harvested by flooding.

>>15996802
Tell me about your mechanically harvested strawberries, raspberries & blueberries. Tell me about your mechanically harvested apples and figs and cherries and pears.
>>15996834
Climate change news is always about dependence on the system and against self-sufficiency.
They want people dependant on the state with no choice but to obey.

>>15996834
It's not, and if that's all you're seeing then it's because the people you interact with are bringing you opinion articles and click bait headlines to laugh at.

Raising your own chickens is fine, especially if you add biochar to their diet and have them eat insects out of your garden. If you read the study you'll see that certain crops were always less ghg intensive than conventional agriculture and a quarter of the urban agriculture plots they looked at were less ghg intensive than conventional agriculture.

Damn guess I'll be destroying and ripping up my garden now. Thanks science! I didn't realize how much of an anti-environment bigot chud I was trying to cutback on tractors and instead using my two own hands.

>>15997323
Read the actual study instead of just the headline.

>>15997316
NTA, but I've worked on an apple farm that used tractor attachments for harvest. One that grabbed the tree trunk and shook the apples down and another that swept the apples up from the floor into a trailer.
That was only for juicing though. For selling the apples, everything was handpicked and sorted. They got to look perfect or they dont sell.
Big reason why that place produced much more juice than apples.
So pretty much everything that needs to look nice on a supermarket shelf has been handpicked by someone.

>>15998413
>For selling the apples, everything was handpicked and sorted.
right, but using tractors or trucks to haul everything out of the field. its only hand in the the hand moves it from the tree to the tractor or truck
picrel is hand picked strawberries, they use a tractor for that too.

If you compare apples to oranges, you can easily get such results. They are comparing corn, that is processed with huge machines to arugula that you need manually weed out, gather and then transport to the city to sell to some restaurant. Ofc the amount of calories in arugula will be negligible and the carbon footprint per calory will be huge.
It's a retarded study that shows absolutely nothing. You can set up permaculture farm where the total carbon footprint will be zero, yet such study will show a huge carbon footprint, because you fart and breath when working in the field and your horse or buodisel car emits co2 during the transportation. Doesn't matter if you eat only what you grow and the horse is rotated on pasture that enriches soil in carbon. Or that you use old brunches of a carbon capturing tree for biodisel.
All in all the study in designed to show what it shows even though the result goes against the common sense.

Probably something relating to economies of scale

>>15992971
Buy a private jet and fly it to global warming conferences

>>15998981
Why are they laying down on the job

>>15992572

>>15992572
It's not. It's literally all lies. If you've ever spent one hour on a commercial farm you'd know that. I built raised beds out of concrete blocks. It will likely last 1000 years. Once soil reaches about 5% organic matter by volume it become self sustaining. As long as you save the garden waste and compost it on site to reintroduce into the garden you'll never need extra compost. At worst you can use chemical fertilizers to up your yields but no doubt you'd use less of that fertilizer than industrial farms. Any off site kitchen scrap waste that can be composted or yard waste will be free nutrients for your home soil as well.

Then factor in the ZERO FOOD MILES on your produce, meaning zero oil used to grow and tend your garden. It's a simple Simon math problem that shows the home garden is more efficient and generates less pollution. Don't rototill your gardens either, no till gardening is the peak of freshness. Use rainwater to irrigate, I use 100% rain water and currently digging a cistern/pond for inside my greenhouse. Hoping to have 1500 gallons on site this summer.

Contrast this with 10 years ago liberal areas like Portland, Oregon were passing laws to make growing vegetables on your front laws legal, yes it's still illegal in many cities. Now that they plan to use food as a weapon against the plebs the home garden is bad. Let me guess you should plant grass sod and buy a lawnmower instead? KEK

P.s. Even a high investment project like a greenhouse, say a 1/4 acre greenhouse, is better. With that you can feed a family of 5 for life. Zero food miles, throw a few solar panels on it and if done right it can even recycle a great deal of the water you use. Most of the US grown and bought produce are grown inefficiently in fields while greenhouse growing is 3-10 times more efficient in every way. Look at produce in your supermarkets RIGHT NOW and it's almost all grown in Mexico.

t. horticulturalist

>>16000939
If you get a greenhouse you can grow food all year around. I set mine up in October every year and I get all sorts of cool weather crops out of it, then I start my summer plants from seed in March and they're ready to go into the ground as soon as May comes around.

>>15992572
Economy of scale
Literally just that

>>16002243
Mine will be made of concrete, steel, and glass. Heated with a wood fire stove with as much of the wood as possible coming from my property. The excess heat will be looped into a heated floor system for my personal living space. I hope to grow tropical plants year round. Orchids are my favorite plant. I am in USDA zone 6b->7a. I expect my greenhouse to out live me. This is more of a hobby greenhouse as opposed to a commercial style one. It will be as "closed loop" as possible but some commercial closed loop greenhouses are very sophisticated.

Anons can look to Holland and their industrial greenhouses that span hundreds of acres and literally produce hot weather vegetables in the dead of winter. I've also worked at commercial greenhouse facilities before. Love them so much. I did a paid summer internship all about greenhouses, hydroponics for the home gardener, and food factory production in urban areas as compared to open field agriculture. Many horticulture professor types advocate for mass field farming the entire continent of Africa with GPS tractors and desalination plants to irrigate. Then they plan to transship the produce world wide, with oil burning ships. I strongly advocate a decentralized network of high tech agriculture as close to the people who eat the produce as possible. The food miles on produce is the real pollution that never gets addressed. Japan is a leader in decentralized food factories. These self contained grow operations can recycle water, recapture unused fertilizer for reuse, and of course reduce or eliminate the need for insecticide/fungicide since you operate in a hyper controlled environment that stops bugs and spores from entering the grow environment.

My professors laughed at me, fuck Big Ag.

>>16000939
>>16002813
based
Every house should come with an attached passive solar greenhouse on the south face. All rood water should be captured in ponds.
All organic waste including shit should be composted and used as fertilizers.
All neighbourhoods should have a giant communal tropical greenhouse garden in the center.
Every community should be surrounded by extensive forest gardens with tree crops and free ranging animals.
Growing food should be a mandatory part of school education.
We could easily create a culture that is largely self sustaining indefinitely and the only imports it requires are building materials and staples that are easier to grow on a large scale like grains and oil.
We have all the tech and knowledge to do it.

>>16002813
hydroponics is a bad choice for a lot of food crops because your vegetables end up tasting like hydro nutes. cucumbers are particularly bad about that

>>15992572
Efficiencies of scale.
Say a bus puts out more pollution than a car, but a bus moves 10x as many people. So long as the bus is putting out <10x as much pollution as a car, the bus is better for the environment.
When a giant industrial farm grows grows food with heavy machinery then trucks it to local grocery stores, the environmental impact is split across, say, a billion potatoes.
You growing a hundred potatoes in your backyard is not 10000x less polluting.

OTOH, it could just be that the metrics used to calculate environmental impact are frequently political bullshit.

>>15994035
Yes, large corporations are generally more efficient than individuals, this is how capitalism has functioned for centuries. It doesn't care for your opinion.

>>16004194
>>16004841
A skilled gardener outperforms any industrial monocrop in yield/area. Even more if you consider nutritional value of the crops. Then on top, the industrial operation degrades the topsoil and the aquifers and dumps pesticides and ferts downstream, fucking up the aquatic ecosystems, creating algea blooms and yearly death zones in the oceans.
The gardener can build his topsoil and keep making food indefinitely without negative side effects.

>>16004886
>A skilled gardener outperforms any industrial monocrop in yield/area
maybe if the area is measured in square feet, if you're talking about acres then massive monocultures win massively

>>15992572
It's called economy of scale retard.

>>15993661
But this is what most people do already.
They grow things like tomatoes, lettuce, beans, herbs, etc.
Very few (if any) local farmers are growing wheat or corn.

>>15992572
Makes sense if you're buying fertiliser, cheap equipment, plastic pots, driving to your allotment, going back and forth to the garden centre for overpriced annuals, not growing from seed...

>>16005792
Nah, most work is setting up the garden. After that one gardener can handle 2 or 3 hectares on his own.
Only thing that industrial monocrops safe is human work. So 1 man with a couple million in hardware can feed thousands with wheat full of glyphosate, so that they can be little office drones or collect gibs.
All ot would take to grow proper food is getting a small percentage of the useless corporate workers into horticulture and pay them well. A lot would be happy to be able to work like that. It's just hard to do at the moment, because big ag is controlling the business, access to land is expensive and wages are mexican illegal immigrant tier.

and what
amount of money
would that make

>>16006545
Quite a bit of money for the people involved an doing the work.
Very little money for agrochemical cooperations.

>hey goy, stop growing your own food, eat grocery store goyslop instead

>>15992572
How do they calculate that? Calories burned by the industrial famer vs home growers?

>>15992572
you vil own nothing

>>15992572
its scam to make people more dependent on stores and make high rise cucks feel better

>>15997313
potato

>>16004143
how to get good tasting hydro nutes?

get

>>16007777

>>16007775
Do aquaponics instead. You also get fish at the same time.

>>16007889
Energy parasites are technically weapons. There is a more natural version of that effect. Why use any? Are there cases where you use the weapon? There are a lot of things to try.

>>16007907
I use a light prism maximised through harsh conditioning so it has additional effect in a combination of things I'm not sharing. Light prisms are a level up from energy parasites. A weapon.

>>16007907
what?

>>16007889
I don't think anyone wants to eat a cucumber that tastes like fish shit

>>16009015
something like that probably would be popular in japan

>>16009015
It doesn't. The fish poop first gets decomposed by bacteria in the plant bed medium and the plants take up predigested and dissolved ions. The water and plant beds smell like a clean pond, not like fish.

>>16009015
what about a fish that taste like cucumber?

>>16011495
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_cucumber

>>16007606

>>15992572
You will not grow your own food ok!! You just won't!!!!

>>15994554
This exactly

>>15997318
All the bellyaching about greenhouse gases is really put into perspective when you compare it to the impact of China building more coal plants for example. Why do I have to even give a shit about my individual impact when there are actors outside of anyone’s control that will pollute more than me, regardless of whatever I do or sacrifice. So you’ll have to forgive me if I just don’t care.

>>16013375
Half of China's power comes from renewables and nuclear. Do you live under a rock or something?

>>16013460
http://archive [.] today/xW7tV

>China permitted more coal power plants last year than any time in the last seven years, according to a new report released this week. It's the equivalent of about two new coal power plants per week.
Do you have an argument against my actual point, or no?

>>16014021
Yep, the US needs to step up it's game because China is now more green than the US. You should direct your ire at those who have earned it. I'll accept criticism of China when the US has as much renewable energy (as a percentage) than China. Until then it's very clear which nation is the problem.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-invests-546-billion-in-clean-energy-far-surpassing-the-u-s/

>>16014021
You’re still missing / ignoring my point. Some old grandma giving up her vegetable garden is a drop in the ocean compared to the impact governments or other institutions have on emissions. Individual action is a rounding error in the grand scheme of things.

>>16015060
Meant for
>>16014187

>>16015060
>>16015064
Sounds like you should buy a gun and do some "activism". That's the only way your actions will matter, right? It's not like you can vote, or lobby for change, or protest, or boycott countries with high ghg emissions, or do literally anything about anything. You're just a helpless little baby, right?

>>16015068
…I’m just going to plant a garden, man.

>>16015178
Good for you. Everyone should have a garden and the study linked in the OP is basically bullshit. Stop whining about global issues requiring collective action.

>>15992971
Set Blackrock and Vanguard offices on fire
The downside is that this will decrease the plastic pollution a bit, since they'd sponsor 3rd world countries for plastic dumping less

>>15995351
Not an argument. People don't just buy fertilizer when they go shopping.

>>16015060
That's just an excuse to ignore responsibility for your own carbon footprint. If a lot of people do it, then it'll make a difference.

>>16016475
In general you aren't wrong, but this study is bullshit.

>>15992572
Because it makes you independent from globohomo.

>>15993661
How do you grow tomatoes wrong?

>>16016518
You don't. The study is saying that tomatoes were always less ghg intensive in urban agriculture than in conventional agriculture. Likely because tomatoes are mostly water.

>>15992971
Build a nuclear reactor in your garage for home grown electricity.

>>16016475
global warming isn't real, theres no such thing as a "carbon footprint" outside of your twisted histrionic imagination

>>16017103
meds

>>16017702
We've already told you. You'll have to see your psychiatrist. We can't administer medication via 4chan.

>>16017880
Take your meds.

>>16017922
Thank you for reminding me I hadn't taken my vitamins yet.

>>15992572
Efficiency. Not doing things industrial-scale is by definition inefficient

>>16016520
I spray my tomatoes with calcium & sulfur

>>16018591
That's okay. there's plenty of retards in the world. You should never be ashamed of who you are.

>>15992572
Those demons always lie. Discard everything that comes from them as useless noise.

>>15992580
but I'm a right winger and I confirm correctly done science to my current perspective

>>16017966
need for transport is by definition more expensive and stale

>>15992572
free food is bad
don't ask stupid question goyim
science is settled

>>15992572
Ha! As if this weren't obvious globohomoism!
>Don't become self-sufficient chattel! It's LE BAD for the """environment"""
>your carbon footprint [stamped firmly across our necks] will be greater!!!
Honestly, if anyone falls for this nonsense, they almost deserve it.

This is available on college campuses... picrel is where fruit comes from now.

(You) live in a food desert. Nothing personnell, kid.

>>16019831
>(You) live in a food desert. Nothing personnell, kid.
This is exactly why lawns should be illegal.

>>16019723
Its not free, gardening is a lot of work. What they really hate about it is that it's tax free. You have to pay lot in taxes to get dollars to go to the grocery store to buy food and then the grocery store has to pay taxes on the profit they made, but when you grow your own you don't generate tax revenue.

>>16020291
You're doing it wrong. Read Ruth Stout's "No Work Garden Book" or build some wicking beds. Pic related. I recommend using lump charcoal crushed to different grades instead of using gravel and sand because it will be easier to move around if you need to and the charcoal will reduce the nutrients you lose from draining it before the winter. If a 90 year old woman can grow most of her own food with just a few hours of work each week then I'm sure you can too.

>>16020291
>>16020972
I'd also recommend using coir mats to separate the layers instead of weed mat because of microplastics.

>>16020972
>No Work
but also
>build some wicking beds
how is building some wicking beds not work?

>>16021648
work for a week vs work 50 hours a week for 55 years

>>16021648
Ruth Stout doesn't use wicking beds, but they're highly productive and only take a couple hours to make.

>>15995428
food isn't the expensive part of being alive, rent is
kill your landlord

>>15993661
>Do it right

If you care about carbon footprints and carbon emissions you need to stop pretending to be a legitimate scientist and take your drivel to a religious board.

>>16022107
buy a trailer, problem solved

>>16022107
Its not their fault that you're too lazy to earn the money needed to buy your own property. You should drop your absurd oversized sense of entitlement, you wouldn't be constantly angry about the perceived injustice of not getting everything you want immediately and for free if you did.

>>15993661
>>Hurr de ddurr muh agenda
Government:"we need a quick takedown of this peer reviewed science that disagrees with our narative" Nature.com: obliges (2020)

>They're saying go ahead and do it
You do realize that farmers in a half dozen countries are currently protesting being regulated out of business by "scientists" and politicians that are paid to do so by big agriculture

Control the food/power/transportation control the people. Ergo fund "green" studies like this one.

>>16020972
Just lay down some pipes for drip irrigation, much less work and works almost as well. Can also automate watering with a couple 1$ moisture sensors and a 5$ ESP32 off AliExpress

>>15992946
it seems like one of those fads that will hold a hipster’s interest for about two weeks maximum, but otherwise obviously no one could object to this? if it’s your garden, plant it the way you want

>>15992572
>CHAZ/CHOP was causing global warming
gaahahaha I just remembered about CHAZ/CHOP

AAH AHAHAHHAHA WHAT A BUNCH OF STUPID FAGGOTS

>>16023232
Trust me, drop irrigation doesn't work anywhere near as well as a wicking bed. You use less water than with drip irrigation too.

>1$ moisture sensors and a 5$ ESP32 off AliExpress
I don't recommend that. The resistive sensors corrode pretty much immediately. You'd need the capacitive sensors and you should check what the coating is made of and possibly apply your own.

>>16023399
>You use less water
who cares? water is free, if falls from the sky regularly, its an unlimited resource.

>>16024272
Not quite, champ.

>>16024273
water is an unlimited resource, it doesn't disappear after its used.

>>16025685
then why my watering bucket gets empty after i water my plants?

>>15992572
It's irrelevant.
Carbon is not carbon dioxide.
Neither are pollutants.

>>16016534
Nuke reactors don't really emit that much carbon, despite how based they are.

>>15992572
Tractors don't breathe, chud

>>15992572
CO2 is good for nature

>>16023389
>if it’s your garden, plant it the way you want
the local hoa karen would like a chat with you

>>15992572
Simple: that "study" is nothing but trash tier propaganda. Don't waste your time with anything that has even the smallest hint of woke/globohomo propaganda. Is just noise.

>>16017103
>global warming isn't real
/thread
Anybody who still believes in such nonsense is a complete idiot.

>>15992572
>Keep eating monocropped food, glyphosate isn't going to give you cancer, we promise

>>16027761
This is what vegans actually believe

>>15992971
Pic related

>>16028728
The downside is that they don't look smart

>>16028799
And? Until we have cheap and reliable slave robots, society will need midwits and sub-midwidts to serve the big-brained.

>>16028822
I'm tired of hearing this excuse for permitting the clearly genetically defective to live. We DO NOT need to overpopulate so we can have more stupids. Never did.

>>16028822
stupid people make the world worse for everyone around them. they do not make good servants. smarter people have to constantly intervene to clean up the problems that they cause.

>>16029378
overpopulation is a myth, it isn't happening now and it never will.

>>15992572
What is so hard to understand?
>home "farmer" fucking around in a tiny garden constantly driving to home depot and back to grow 3 tomatoes a year
vs.
>actual farmer growing tons of food in a process that was optimized through millenia

>>16016520
It's warmer in cities.
Therefore less fuel used to warm tomatoes on cold nights.
Or potentially no fuel at all - cities have better access to electricity coming from renewable resources and I guess using electric heaters is feasible on the small scale.

>>16030166
Continuing:
You can basically think about about CO2 in terms of resources and consumption:
The more resources and consumption it takes to do a thing then likely the more CO2 it produces as a byproduct.
Modern farming is efficient compared to homegrown food, otherwise the food it produces wouldn't be so abundant and relatively cheap.

>>16030168
nobody "warm tomatoes on cold nights"

>>15992572
Economy of scale you fucking idiot.

>>16030173
Industrially produced food is so cheap because it it heavily subsidized by tax money. If we stopped giving gibs to big ag, homegrown things would suddenly be VERY price competitive.
Theres massive inputs. Machinery often 7 figures a piece, fertilizers, pesticides, fuel, pumped groundwater.
Only thing it is efficient in is human labour. If only we had millions of people sitting around doing useless busy work or not working at all...
>>16030181
Ever heard of a greenhouse?

>>16030460
It is subsidized because countries protect their markets.
Food would be much much cheaper if it was real free market with open international trade, but it isn't (for good reason).

>>16030549
It is subsidized because lobbyists decide what gets financed and what laws make business easier for themselves and harder for their competition.
The whole 20th century had them pushing out small scale producers. "Get big or get out"
You often cant even grow certain crops any more without Monsanto representative coming by, forcing access to the land with police, taking samples, sending them to a lab and then saying you've grown a crop with patented genetics from Monsanto and proceed to sue you for a sum of money that makes you lose your farm.
If it were for protection of markets, import tariffs would be plenty.
>the .gov is just protecting us
lol, lmao

>>15992572
Dis you read the article? I'm sure they can explain it.

the government owns food and violence

you exist to serve the economy.

>>16014187
>scientificamerican

>>15992971
>how would I go about doing this?
Drink some cianide

>>15992572
Wait, you don't visit your garden by private jet? Are you poor?

>>16031523
>Opinion
Unironically kill yourself.

>>16032525

>>16033180
>t. opinion article enjoyer
Kill yourself, you sad waste of space.

>>16033249
Don't reply to avatar posters; avatar usage is reportable.

>>15998981
This looks comfy as fuck

>>15992572
Here's my tip. Go into your back yard with a spade and carefully cut up a strip of your lawn into squares, about 300mm ( 1 foot ) on each side. Then cut under the turf so you can lift up the grass up like a mat. Go deep enough so you dont damage the grass roots too much, usually 50 to 75mm ( 2 to 3 inches ) is enough, depending on your location. Then dig out some of the soil and place it to the side. Replace the grass mat. It will dip down into the hole a bit since you took some of the soil out, but that doesn't matter,
Then each night go out again with your spade, lift the grass mat and take a shit in one of the holes. If your aim is a bit off, dont worry, just scrap it into the hole, you will get better with practice. Now fill up any remaining gap in the hole with the soil you had put aside. Then place the grass mat down and give it a good tap down. Any excess soil you have left over just spread around over the top. There will be a slight hump since your shit is obviously taking up some space, but dont worry, it will all flatten out eventually as your shit gets absorbed into the soil.
Now keep repeating this night after night, working your way across your lawn in a systemic manner. Ideally start in one corner and just keep working across line by line.

After a few months ( approx 100 shits if you take one shit a day ) you should have made good progress. If it doesn't rain for a while make sure to put the sprinkler on. By then you should notice how the area where you took your first shits are now coming up lush and green and beautiful. As they should with your natural fertilizer! For added benefit take a nightly piss over each of your deposits in turn, making sure to spread your urine around a bit.
It will not take long to turn your entire lawn into a beautiful burgeoning pasture with dense grass growth and a lively soil ecosystem full of worms, bugs and microorganisms feasting upon your shit!
Bring your friends around so they can admire it.

>>15992572
HECKIN CARBON BIGFOOT PRINT MONSTER!!!!!! HECKIN FUCKING CARBON!!! WE WAR YOU!!!!!!!!!!

>>16034195
cont...
Now no doubt your friends will be amazed. the silly sods paying for expensive fertilizers which dont do half as a good a job and good old fashioned human shit. You are bursting with pride at your creation, you give off an unbeatable aura of confidence and possess a serenity which only comes from being One with Nature. Your friend's wives keep glancing at you and smiling. You notice they keep fidgeting with their hair.
"Anon, tell us your secret, how do you get your lawn looking so good?"
You will nod and smile and tell them its the "Au natural" method, or as its sometimes referred to as, "The Bear in the Woods"
Then offer to give them a full demonstration on their lawns.
So you all march over to Joe's place. Its a terrible lawn, shabby and brown, he mows it too short, which dries out the soil, kills the worms and microorganisms, and encourages weeds to grow. He also also uses herbicides on it, what a douche!
So anyway, after giving Joe some general lawn mowing advice you demonstrate how you achieved your fabulous results, outlining the general process I have described above. As you drop your pants and squeeze out a fat one your friends all applaud.
"My God, why didn't we think of that? Its so simple! Its so natural!" they exclaim, nodding their heads, smiling and striding up to shake your hand.
You notice Joe's wife staring at you. She is toying with the necklace around her neck upon which hangs a pendant dipping deep into her ample bosom. You feel you will visiting Joe's back lawn a lot in the weeks to come. Just to help out. Like a good friend.

>>16034195
my lawn is two acres. it would take several lifetimes to complete the task

>>16034835
Then you are blessed to have so much free land around your house. Indeed it would take a long time, as 2 acres is 87,120 square feet. At a rate of one shit per day per square foot it would take one person just over 238 years fertilize your lawn!
A number of solutions do however present themselves.
You could turn your lawn into a refugee camp for immigrants. This would however have some downsides as they would leave plastic trash everywhere as well as their feces, and you would probably end up getting gang raped.
A better option perhaps would be simply to turn a large portion of your lawn into dense tropical jungle, retaining only a small section for your nightly toilet excursions. Yes, you might run the risk of being attacked by aggressive mutant howler monkeys, and your corpse being consumed by ravenous army ants, but surely that risk is worth taking.

>>16034195
thats not true, its better to mix your piss (nitrogen) with water and water your lawn like this, if you want to use shit you need to burn it 1st and use the ash and potassium

>>16034981
What nonsense! You are obviously an ignorant young whippersnapper with no idea of aesthetics and decorum.
You do not jet a solitary spot of your lawn with your glorious urine, rather you sprinkle it around like a shower of golden rain. As nature intended. No need to add a second step of dilution. What sort of God cursed faggot are you?
By burning your greasy poos you are removing not only much of the available energy, and denying your soil the opportunity to build up humus, but also depriving the soil biota of valuable substrate nutrients which they can use to proliferate. The only time you should ever burn your poos is when you have left a pile on your neighbor's doorstep.
I hope you have been sufficiently schooled now and will leave this thread a wiser and heterosexual person.

>>16035050
bot

>>16035065
God cursed faggot

>>16035068
jews stripped us from regional faith, all childless people are same as fags to me

>>16035070
Regardless of whether that is true or not you can still make a personal commitment to the Gods of antiquity. Next time you are out taking a shit in your back yard raise your face to the Heavens and loudly exclaim "OH MIGHTY THOR I OFFER YOU MY POO!" and then zap it with a taser.

>>16035086
i could thank the earth for providing me with food, yea

>>16035089
Dont forget to also thank Toutatis. lest the sky fall upon your head.

>>16002826
Farming expert

>>16035100
i will thank earth and sun, i dont like the pagan names given concepts

>>16034981
>>16035050
You can carbonize your shit to make biochar with a decent amount of nutrients already in it. Hydrothermal carbonization will yield more nutrients than pyrolysis.

Det här stället är min toalett nu.

>>16035138
yeah whatever, you gay fuckwit
>>16035193
sheer faggotry, a real man goes "Bear in the Woods"

>>16035333
biochar > shit

>>15992946
aw, how nice
I wish i could do that.
But basically all my edible garden stuff has to be grown in protected raised beds, otherwise the only one eating from it are the snails.

>>16035486
send chickens out, they will eat snails

>>16035486
>>16035543
This. Also use a high degree of intercropping and trap crops. Nasturtium, chives, fennel, garlic, mint, and rosemary are all common crops that repel snails. Nasturtiums can also be used as trap crops for pests besides snails and any that survive can be eaten. Alternating rows, checkerboard patterns, or random placements will enhance pest resistance because many species of pests will check multiple plants to ensure that they are the same type before depositing their eggs. They do that to make sure that their spawn will have plenty of food, but you can take advantage of this behavior by ensuring that they have a high chance of landing on different plants. This also makes intercropping easier. Consult intercropping charts for the best crop pairs.

>>16034195
>>16034981
>>16035333
Build a composting toilet like a normal hippie

>>16035644
This. Or build an arborloo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arborloo

>>16035644
>>16035665
No you dumb turd abusers, you are missing the whole point.
Firstly you just creating a whole bunch of extra steps and costs for absolutely no reason. You aren't achieving anything except demonstrating to the world what a woman you are.
Second you are interrupting the natural flow of nature. Listen, what do you think happens in the woods? Animals shit, it goes on the ground and breaks down and becomes part of the whole soil-biota complex. That's it. You dont see fucking squirrels using a composting toilet or mixing some faggy biochar in with their shit do you? No. See? Squirrels are smarter than you.
Thirdly you are missing the whole aesthetic. Being out there at night, feeling the wind on your face, lurching over a hole that YOU dug, your twitching anus straddling mere inches above the life giving soil of this planet. Staring up at the sky while grunting out a nutrient rich log. YOU are the BEAR! You are in the WOODS! Its like having sex and giving birth at the same time.This is what its all about. But I bet you can't understand that. I bet you also eat a bunch of plastic packaged highly processed food. You are an affront to everything that is sacred and holy.

>>16035686
>Digging a hole once is more labor intensive than cutting your lawn into sod every night
>Digging is expensive
I think you forgot to take your medication this morning.

>>16035732
Mindlessly parroting such tired old cliches. Creativity is lacking in your atrophied brain, poo offender.
Besides, you have missed the point. The natural process is important. One can not touch the grass when perched upon a concrete slab. Nor do many backyards bode well for a deep pit, which I doubt you have ever dug. As I suspected the aesthetics as well as the science is lost upon your industrially diseased mind.

>>16035756
>Mindlessly parroting such tired old cliches. Creativity is lacking in your atrophied brain, poo offender.
He said, still insisting that digging a hole is expensive and labor intensive.

>Nor do many backyards bode well for a deep pit, which I doubt you have ever dug.
I used to do trench composting. I've dug trenches 3ft wide, 3ft deep, and 15ft long in just a couple hours. Just call and have your utility lines marked and remember where they are. You sound fat and lazy as well as stupid.

>>15992572
Chemicals make the food grow faster and bigger so it pollutes less duh

I used to like reading about no dig gardening and homesteading and all little techniques and stuff that people have come up with make things more efficient
But I'm too poor and NEET to own any land so it's pointless for me really.

Feels like farming should be a solved thing by now. We've only been doing it what 12000 years now and unlike tool making all the materials necessary are the same ones that have existed since back them with a few exceptions like hoses, it's just stuff like optimizing crop rotarions and layered planting that need to be figured out.

Lol, I've come across some small minded unimaginative fuckwits on this board before but you really take the prize.
>>16036255
Dude, just poo on your backlawn! Its easy! Just follow this sage advice >>16034195
and
>>16034215
and you will also be swimming in pussy.
Don't listen to the jackasses with all their composting toilet bullshit etc, its not necessary!

>>16016534
Dude.
He wants to *increase* his carbon footprint.

>>16037073
>Imagine being this retarded

>>15995516
Your point is rendered moot from the outset.
Cultivating a farm or garden is a creative pursuit.
Niggers aren't capable of that.

>>16020972
what are those green turds growing out of the soil supposed to be? the one on the left isn't even connected to it's root system.

>>16020972
>grow your plants in this retarded plastic container which prevents them from growing a decent sized root system

>>16039331
You are very stupid, no need to tell everyone.

>>16037772
maybe pickles

>>16006185
You also missed out the other factors that made certain UA cleaners, like using urban waste instead of industrial fertilizer and having urban farms run for longer to payback some of the higher initial costs of setting up a new plot, also avoid hippie collectivists

>>16040749
You are delusional, take your meds.

>>16040780
>science triggers me

>>15992946
Involves hours of work daily

>dood what if time was free and we were all growing micro crops on our balconies

>>16039331
plants can't grow without plastic.

>>16041777
shut up idiot

>>16041694
When you work growing your own food all of the value you create is yours to keep, when you work for Mr. Shkeleberg he takes most of the profits and the pittance you're allowed to keep is heavily taxed.

>>16041777
i get you, but plants should be grown in grow bags instead of pots

>>16041694
You're doing it wrong.

>>15993661
>only do it right
>you can grow your vegetables only the way we suggest goyim

>>16044011
Time to take your meds gramps

>>15992572
Its much higher than 500%

>>16044908
If a 90 year old woman can do it then you can too.

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Ruth_Stout_No_Work_Garden_Book.html?id=WlmAzgEACAAJ&source=kp_book_description

>>16043727
as long as you're using maximum plastic to grow your plants

>>15993658
and use the fire as a power source to drill a natural gas well

>>16023180
>You do realize that farmers in a half dozen countries are currently protesting being regulated out of business by "scientists" and politicians that are paid to do so by big agriculture
"Big agriculture" are the ones protesting, idiot. They bought up all the small farmers ages ago and cut corners everywhere to the point of unsustainability and now they're mad that regulations might eat into their profit. You've been psy-opped by a massive PR campaign paid for by heaps of agri bucks.
>Control the food/power/transportation control the people.
That's another lie they told you. They don't feed the country. They export their crops whilst our country imports cheaper crops.

>>16025869
because you emptied it onto your plants.

Friendly reminder that if you aren't going out at night and pooing on your back lawn, then you aren't doing it right.

>>15992580
if only you'd realise $cience has being weaponised to socially engineer your myopic psyche

>>16048355
Unlike yours, which is immune to propaganda. Your rejection of science just leaves you hopelessly adrift in a sea of impressions, unable to make sense of any of it.

>>16048369
i consume so much propaganda, that everything is propaganda to me and i dont belive anything, baka desu senpai
fuck landlords and loan givers btw

>>16048435
dats antisemitic, ur going on the list

>>16048369
Anon, you should store your garden spade in a shed, not up your arse.

>>16043727
Thats how they evolved to grow best

>>15992572
It's even like environmental politics are all bullshit to make you do what whatever is recognized as public authority wants!

>>16051070
they evolved spite having grow bags, but growbags make them better
something like clothes, do you grow best without clothes? but you evolved without them, lol

>>16051178
>but you evolved without them, lol
Incorrect, humans have been wearing clothes for hundreds of thousands of years. All non-tropical ethnicities have evolved with clothing.

>>16051180
wearing clothes is a manmade change, like growbags

>>16028799
>>16029378
>>16029483
antinatalist faggots...

>>16029483
>they do not make good servants
wrong, smart people make bad servants because they're too manipulative and intelligent to trust

>>15992572
stop asking questions, just drive to the grocery store and buy some goyslop, its good for the environment

>>15992572
Maybe americans use a lot of nonce tech in those areas

>>15992572
I think a better question is how can plants have a carbon footprint when they consume co2 and pump out oxygen

>>16041777
They need plastic and all sort of other ridiculous garden store products, they can't just grow in the dirt, are you crazy?

>>15992572
>homegrown food is unconventional
dystopian much

>>16055026
they want to tax sunlight

>>16055770
Science says plants need taxable income and sales to grow, plants can't live if they're not generating ZOGdebt fiatbux for shlomo.

Funding check: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Not surprising.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bU8UR_T8SV4

>>15992572
I clicked your thread because the girl looked cute. I like her hair.

>>16053714
They're really telegraphing the fact that they're planning on attacking the food supply

>>16055770
i found my plants work best if i kick them out as saplings and make them find their own pile of dirt

>>16058371
>oy vey don't grow you own food goy
>heh heh heh
>*rubs hands greedily*

>>16035133
this is what a real farming expert looks like

>>15992946
If I could snap my fingers and turn my back yard into that, it would look like picrel in about 30 minutes.

>>16058371
They've been doing that for years already. What do you think the farmer protests are about?

>>16061878
You realize that deer is edible, don't you? Attracting game to your yard is worth sacrificing 20 calories worth of parsley for

>>16061899
They are talking about the government restricting the use of pesticides inside the country while, at the same time, the government has no customs excise for importing food from countries with no restrictions on pesticides.
This results in farmers getting outpriced by imports.

>>16062503
meat of carnivores is more healthy than meat of parsley eaters

>>16062545
its all good

>>16062503
Not only is it edible, its already garnished

>>16055774
very much

>>16061878
Put up a fence.

>>16065811
but that would keep the free meat from wandering in

>>16013460
ni hao, charlie

fags

>>16069860
thats u

their is no carbon in fact you can breath wiht out plants in an closed system, besides ofc the paralysing headache caus no protection against sunlight, the super intoxication of rivers cause nothign stops the minerals to dissolve.
that you can get burnalbe material ony from mines caus nothing stopes the carbon to sink into the crust....
if or if not a gas warms or cools a planet by shifting the relations depends on its microreflections concering electromagnetic waves.
with out plants you dont die cause of heat or air but you die for sure miserable.

>>16071608
die reason it realy doesnt matter is wader, just think a moment about it heat =clods more reflected light, cold the pol freezes, but it never freezes the äquador. as colder it gets as clearer the wader becomes (since minerals are heavyer as organic substances) it gets warmer sice the wader is clearer....
the planet can ever only concering heat freeze, it can never boil.

if their would be much more carbon and less wader but the same distance to the star, the planet would be only able to boil but not to freeze.

>>16071615
u see it cant its to close to the star to freeze, and to much wader to boil.

>>16071616
if you unoald titans carbon reserves onto this planet then it can boil.

>>16071618
all the climate things are related to stars comets, pol shifts, ofc with out trees europa has idk 2 month dessert 2 months flood, but the average temerature will not chance.

>>16071622
it tells you you need to care about your evironment and not about a golbal one.

>>16071618
CO2 isn't a greenhouse gas

literally nobody cares about global warming, everyone knows its fake, except for the dumbest, most gullible 20% of humanity.

>>15992572
>>15993661
How about I plant whatever I want in my garden and you suck my butt? Nothing I ever do in my entire existence will ever pollute as much as China or India, therefore I will have lots and lots of garden-grown fruit and vegetables and you can die mad about it.

>>16058371
>>16053714
They don't want to "attack" the food supply, they want control over it just like they control the money supply. Then, when you think about opposing them or have a wrongthink, they can starve you. It's the same shtick with everything they do: We need to "fight climate change" by banning your ability to travel or eat more than a certain number of calories, so you'll be weak and tied to your easily policed sector. We need to ban "assault weapons", while they keep them, so that you cannot overthrow them. We need CBDCs because of "climate change" or somesuch, so they can scrutinize everything you spend money on and freeze your account for wrongthink.

This old german fuck cooms to the dream of his face being on the wall in Oceania.

>>16074062
>literally nobody cares about global warming
>posts proof that 20% of the people consider it their top priority
I challenge you to make a single comment without a lie and without mentioning trannies.

>>16073063
This

>>16074139
>This old german fuck
its jews, they're just using him as a scapegoat same as they did with stalin

>>16074204
20% is nobody

because with a large farm you scale everything all fixed costs are relatively much lower

>>15993661
>Only do it right

I'll do whatever the fuck I want on myand you communist cock sucker

>>15992572
>how is it possible for the carbon footprint
stopped reading there

>>16018659
>I'll be wrong on purpose to get people mad
beaten as a kid or just genetics?

>>16061878
because you don't hunt

>>16078222
Ok

>>15992572
It isn't. Take your meds.

>>16080122
OK, thanks

>>15992572
A lot of that conventionally produced food is grown in greenhouses that use CO2 generators to make the plants grow faster

>>16078243
you're just imagining that, you don't have any numbers to back it up, if you ran the numbers you'd find you were wrong

>>16078243
>>>/pol/

>>16078182

>>15992572

>>15992572
i can only assume it's based on the opportunity cost of "lost" production by farming normally instead of """conventionally"""
growing vegetables in your garden has functionally zero carbon cost arguably even negative since the only contributions might be
>travelling to get seeds and the travel of those seeds assuming you don't reseed your own which any sensible farmer is doing
>optional products like fertilizer but this is inherently a bad generalization
imo this is just bullshit to discourage growing at home
i flatly refuse to believe for one moment that plants grown in india or brazil are better for the environment it's patent nonsense

>>15992572
Optimized tasks for a larger production you reduce waste, which includes carbon producers like fertilizing, also homegrown farmers introduce nitrogen back into the ground by burning etc etc, anything you can imagine, industrial agriculture won't do it, it will be repetitive cheap and bland