/sci/ - Science & Math

100+ and sub 80 IQ fags waste their time because they know their "potential" doesnt matter.

>>16030160
They dont know that. They have all the smarts that come with having a high IQ (whatever that may entail) and yet they can't see just how wrong they are in concluding none of it matters in the end. Am I mistaken? Please do, and be harsh in your response if I am.

>>16030146
The issue is that if you have original ideas and try to fix the world by sharing them irl, normies freak out and might send you to some shrink who will then proceed to destroy your brain through force-drugging.

>>16030146
I'm not gonna work so that some jew can pretend to be intelligent.

>>16030146
It's not that there are problems, but why there are problems. Think about getting a job: It's a constant race to stay employed. It's no loger come and firm handshake to hlget a job, it's a long ordeal of passing through an assortment of various spam filters, intervieslws, background checks to obtain the privilege of getting a job.

Just think about why it is.

Nobody cares about your damn job. The job is there for you, to waste your life. Nobody cares about the results of your work, at best it's going to be used as an input for somebody else to deal with, to justify the existence of their job. None of it has any point except for keeping you occupied, like a rat in a wheel.

Post scarcity? You have lived in post scarcity your whole life, my friend. They just don't want you to have it.

>>16030146
>We have these literal brain dead politicians in charge
Do you know what "being in charge" means?

>>16030146
You're setting the floor way too low.
There are expected to be around a quarter of a million people in the world with an IQ of 160. "Wasting your time with vidya/4chins/etc." probably doesn't kick in as a valid criticism until around 180. That's where you need to be to have any hope of making significant intellectual contributions nowadays.

>>16030224
Noted. Thanks for posting.

>>16030146
>109 score on mensa online test
This test is inflated by at least 30 points, so your true IQ score would be 79 at best.

>>16030243
It's actually 15.

>>16030146
>I got a 130 IQ score from Mensa's online test. I got a 130 IQ score from IQTest.com.
>But you know what? That doesn't anger me as much as you faggots with over 160
fixed it for you

>>16030163
>>16030146
Kill yourself.
I have an IQ of 160 actually tested by a psychologist and hell will freeze over before I lift a finger to contribute to anything in this society. I don't care about accomplishment and applauses. I don't care about your envy and resentment. I love when low IQ people get emotional and upset. I tolerate them and speak reasonably to them but if their aggression continues it's extremely easy to make people like you cry in real life with just words. I can say even more scathing and rude things and low IQ people take them so personally and their only response is to get super angry or displeased enough to leave them in tears.

By the way if you wanted me to contribute the least society could have done was afford a stipend to live off of, housing and allay all my immediate worries as it relates to survival. Otherwise the only thing I am going to worry about is economizing decisions to be able to eat and have a roof over my head.

>>16030146
>something to leave a significant footprint on this damned earth.
Can't do that. We are all walking dead by AGI, and no human is smart enough to solve AGI alignment before the capabilities are there. Capabilities are an engineering problem which any monkey with a GPU farm can take shots at, but alignment isn't an engineering problem, it's the problem of developing an entirely new mathematical framework of describing general computable agents whose utility functions are stable and human-compatible for all eternity under self-modification. That's equivalent in difficulty to resolving Goldbach's conjecture, P vs NP, and a bunch of similar issues in a sequence, in the next decade or so. We're done.

>>16030267
midwit thoughts, other side of the same coin as OP which also explains why your feathers were unruffled to the other shit he said. high IQ people don't waste their time on pseud shit and have better things to occupy their minds.

>>16030146
The problem are marranos, only when all of them are exterminated humanity will reach its full potential.

>>16030146

How can potential be wasted?

>>16030262
Don't you have any interests or anything at least? Don't you care about trying to achieve something even personally?

>>16030146
>I'm hyper-involved in stupid shit, I don't like it!
>why don't you smart guys waste your time, too?!
t. +3SD haver
>>16030163
From some perspective higher than your own? Yes, you're right.
>>16030186
This basically
>>16030218
An organization requires bodies to simulate a social structure that is hijack-able for a socio/psychopath. Useless eaters are REQUIRED EVERYWHERE.
>>16030224
No, he's mostly right. You have to consider how most of these 160IQ potential-people never really develop well enough to see it through. The number of actual people with IQs that high is even lower. And then you can take a fifth of those that are left and you'll get the smart guys you can actually interact with.
150+ and you start getting depressed. 160 and above and if you aren't raised well in an environment where you're winning you'll veer to other fields, usually hedonism.
175 and above, you'll probably kill yourself by 30.
Normal people with IQs around 85-105 can always tell who the smart people are and are the worst bullies the very presence of someone that smart is incredibly threatening to their worldview.
And there are other genetic factors but I'm not gonna type that out right now.
>>16030262
Based
>>16030284
That's just bs
>>16030267
>muh AGI
the entirety of ""AI"" is just tagging. Improve tagging and throw more computers at it and you improve the model. Nobody is giving this enough weight.
We aren't going to get "AGI" any time soon. The entire field of ""AI"" is applied marketing, they (THEY) are on the way to perfecting arbitrary incentive-based research generation.
>>16030275
For a second there I thought you were hinting at the pig-bear-bonobo hypothesis
>>16030279
Chad Logos believer, ""potential"" denier
Potentialfags are worse than bayesianfags

>>16030270
Have you considered that you have very poor reading comprehension? The point is that nothing will leave a footprint when the Earth and humans with it are disassembled into something that satisfies the AGI more, impressive or not, significant or not. You might as well enjoy doing what you like. Sure, most high-IQ people enjoy doing things that are seen as "better" by others — virtually by definition because they are high-IQ vocations. Still, it doesn't matter if what you find fun is getting one of the world's top ranks in a competitive game — because it's easy to pick up programming and statistics to simulate the game's strategic structure and because you think fast — or volunteering at a wild bird rehab center, or modeling the stochastic processes of markets or cell membrane proteins, or running a puzzle manufacturing start-up. It just doesn't matter, we're all walking dead. It's not the OP's concern what we find fun. Nor yours.

>>16030304
Take meds.

>>16030146
Those tests are more about being the teacher's pet type that aims to please and the type of person that needs some explicit external pat on the head.

I ran rings around future MDs and have trophies for being smart and travelled for smart kid competitions my whole life usually winning them handily.

But "IQ tests" are so inane that my superior mind can't even be bothered to expens energy.
I still score 125 just clicking answers in about 5 seconds per question.

Anyone that can sit and concentrate on these tests is a faggot and the test reflects faggotry more than intelligence.

I'm now a highly successful business man marrried to a neurologist.

>>16030308
>meds
Don't worry friendo, everything will be okay, stop going to the shrink
https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/

>>16030318
>150+ and you start getting depressed
The benefits of high intelligence don't have a cap. Intelligence is a general health factor, genetically correlated with height and lifespan among other variables. This is obvious in the TIP/SMPY and other high-IQ samples. 160-IQ people are more conventionally successful and mentally robust than 150-IQ people. That you imagine the exact opposite just means you're one of the unlucky ones who should take meds. Take meds. Or not, doesn't matter, even more so at 3σ.

>>16030321
No one should take meds.
If you were serious, then you are 116 midwit range.
The rest is cogent.

The issue most midwits have is that their example of "smart" or "high iq" is usually just a person with 2-3 SDs on the avergae and are INCREDIBLY servile.

The servility is rewarded heavily and thus the data is skewed on what a "smart person" is.

There are as many 160+ people that are farming or on a homestead or doing "nothing for society" as their are in PHD programs.

But the midiwt is trained to only recognize one as intelligent.

>>16030321
>160-IQ people are more conventionally successful and mentally robust than 150-IQ people.
Mentally robust? Sure. Conventionally successful? No. You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded
>The benefits of high intelligence don't have a cap.
Should have stopped reading there tbqh
>Intelligence is a general health factor
literally fucking kill yourself. This has been disproven over and over.
>genetically correlated with height
which correlates with cranium volume
>lifespan
Nope.

>>16030324
>Proven
Kek
The first bastion of a midwit is regarding things beyond a math equation as "proven".

>>16030326
Regarding things beyond a math equation "unproven" is literally the hallmark of a loudmouth midwit and I'm not even being facetious. You've got a little something up there but it's not enough.

>>16030331
I knew you'd be super butthurt.

Nutrition is the foundation of all the things above you regard as proven, which are actually just correlated.
The underlying major player is general nutrition.
Cranial volume being heavily dependent on nutrition.
Etc.

>>16030146
High IQ people don't owe midwits their intellectual labor. Midwits have an endless appetite for novelty but get bored easily. They can't create interesting things on their own so they get angry that their intellectual superiors won't do it for them. Midwits see the refusal of high IQ people to entertain them as "wasting their lives" because midwits are narcissists that want everything to revolve around their desires. This is why midwits are hated more than normies and dimwits. At least those groups can be easily amused, often on their own. It's the midwits that are always stirring up trouble to alleviate their ennui.

OP posted the same thing on /pol/ last night and got his ass handed to him. Apparently he thinks /sci/ is a bit dumber than /pol/ and he can peddle his brain envy here.

>>16030284
No, I don't. My time is spent working which is done under the duress of survival. The weekends are spent recovering from work. The hours post work are lackluster because I am aware enough to realize the impairments of tiredness and fatigue incurred throughout the day. The few hours of decent free time are spent plotting for ways to get more money to escape needing to work. I regret most if not all of my learning and any interest in anything as it's a source of pain knowing they cannot be explored.
>>16030267
>>16030308
I could not care less about this shit. You are not intelligent.

>>16030146
The fact that I'm not contributing wasn't somehow a "decision" by me. Stop acting like it was. It's merely a description of where I ended up in life.
Having a high IQ doesn't automatically mean you'll be succesful "if you just applied yourself [@ work]". There are other factors besides the actual work being done, like the factor "people". People can't stand being around high IQs. If I think about something deeply and offer my insight, they either don't get how I arrived at that conclusion; or they don't see what the relevance is; or they feel weirded out about the (their personal) circumstances being analyzed so deeply by me.
It's no fun if I know the reason you avoid smiling (just smirk) is because of your yellow molars or something.
I, on my part, have extremely little in common with a 100 IQ. There's basically no shared basis.

It's not that I don't run everything I say through an internal socialbility filter. In fact, I rarely speak, but I still humor various things so I don't appear like a complete autistic mute creep. I'm just acting the minimum amount of normal.
This "minimum to not be a weirdo" is not enough to advance in a career in the superstar manner the OP means. But it's not like I actually TRY to achieve such advancement, but fail due to social ineptness. If some lower-IQ high function autist is 100% socially inept, then I'm only 10% inept. I know what buttons to push. I just have 0 zero interest to partake in these office political/soft factors relevant dynamics. It genuinely is just not my interest.

It's non-trivial to try bridge this gap of a local maximum of irrelevant social factors till I can on other side of hill start implementing the projects OP thinks I should do.

Again, not a choice. I am not a superhuman. Next to social issues, there is also motivation, organization (I'm extremely chaotic/ADHD), etc. I can't alter these circumstances deeply, I am just constantly putting out fires and duct-taping things in my life together.

>>16030357
>My time is spent working which is done under the duress of survival. The weekends are spent recovering from work.
LOL.
>You are not intelligent.
LOL.

>>16030146
high performer burnout is real. My roommate in college had a perfect ACT and SAT (IQ unknown, but it's a metric for the insecure) achieved with no studying due to his eidetic memory. He had a full ride scholarship, but he failed out his second year because he just gave up. Works for the county in some backwards corner of Idaho.

The only other genius I've known is doing well. He's a research with some defense contractor in washington dc. God help the commies if that guy is designing weapons.

>>16030378
>IQ unknown, but it's a metric for the insecure
It's hilarious how much this projection gets posted here.

>>16030379
no, it's true. IQ is just a measure of potential on a very specific scale. What you do with it matters. I'm sure my roommate's was incredible, but it doesn't mean jack shit if he's just shuffling paper for the highway district in some armpit of a rural state.

>>16030379
It's true.
Imagine seeking out some faggot authority to say if you are smart.

>>16030357
>The weekends are spent recovering from work. The hours post work are lackluster because I am aware enough to realize the impairments of tiredness and fatigue incurred throughout the day.
>>16030378
>He had a full ride scholarship, but he failed out his second year because he just gave up. Works for the county in some backwards corner of Idaho.
tiredbros..

>>16030384
not to mention the icky eugenics origin of the metric.

>>16030385
seriously. I had 12 meetings on Thursday. I made the classic mistake of becoming important at work.

>>16030243
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGXdp5Xkpcs

>>16030391
>meetings
Wait, do you actually have a "bad" or low paying job, or do you actually work at FAANG or something and you are just being negative?

>>16030386
Kek
I KNOW.

>>16030395
>do you actually work at FAANG or something
The absolute state of midwits.

>>16030395
I work in big pharma r&d. the company is playing catch-up on this GLP-1 inhibitor wave and I'm unfortunately a SME on a few subjects related to it.

>>16030381
What does that have to do with insecurity? Like I said, the projection is obvious and it's amazing how those who do it are completely oblivious to how obvious it is to everyone else.

>>16030381
Inaccurate? Insufficient? Are those the words you're grasping for? Insecure means something very different from what you just wrote.

>>16030373
Midwit moment. I have a psychologist verified WAIS tested IQ of 160. Assuming you're the poster I responded to, you're just upset I don't care about your useless AI drivel and found it deeply upsetting it evidenced a lack of intelligence. You don't have a counter other than some trite just world hypothesis view that intelligence secures riches. I simply expressed the reality of my existence and you cannot accept it because it doesn't fit your morally conceived notions of place in the world.

>>16030146
Potential for what? I am easily the smartest person on this board by a large margin. I dropped out of the rat race wage cage and developed a model to trade currency futures to make large amounts of money to donate to right wing causes and defeat the Jews for the future of Aryandom. What are you doing with your potential?

>>16030413
no projection here. My measured IQ was a respectable 127 but it is utterly pointless. I know people with lower scores doing better than me because they work harder. I know people with higher scores that do sanitation work.

>>16030418
I'm describing the people who take the test, not the test itself; read more carefully, shit-for-brains. Personally, I was forced to by my father who was very insecure about such things.

>>16030365
>I'm just acting the minimum amount of normal.
this, I may as well be from another planet as them. I have control over my emotions and they are ruled by theirs. I look like a psychopath to them because I dont cry at the funeral because I know that person isnt truly dead. I dont go ballistic at the traffic jam or the line at the store because I know it wont change it. People who are emotional retards just run around like chicken with its head chopped off, they simply cant understand stoics and what we understand about the reality and even human behavior. We have a much higher level of intuition to see outcomes long before they happen so can easily shoot down stupid ideas, but this makes other people resentful and you you dont waste time trying to massage their egos over it because it is all so tiresome and childish having to deal with people who are resentful because you shatter their illusions and force them to live in truth rather than their comfortable delusions

>>16030365
very good post btw I forgot to mention, you get it and inspired to me to effort post when I hate wasting keystrokes here on simple minded retards

>>16030409
No offense but you guys are scum.

I’m sitting in the 115-125 score, measured by a psychologist. As a borderline retard I wouldn’t contribute a single thought to the society that hates me, marginalized me and is actively looking to replace me.
In this world everyone is by himself. And if I find I way to fuck you up so I can do marginally better, boy, be sure I will.

>>16030420
>I don't care about your useless AI
Feel free to run after me — an anon who wasn't talking to you in the first place — again, to tell me again that you don't care about it.
>don't have a counter
The counter is the future.
>the reality of my existence
You're around 2–2.5 σ, that much I can tell. I can't yet tell if you're lying about the WAIS score, or if the full battery wasn't administered, or if you're among the outliers who lower the [math]g[/math]–IQ correlation; but that is immaterial. People at 4σ in [math]g[/math] grasp the concept of unaligned agents quickly and without spoonfeeding, you're just obtuse.

>>16030451
AI is just skip logic attached to large data pools.
It's nothing.

>>16030432
Yes, I share your sentiment.
An example is my mother: she rescued a dog. A just deed. Very just. But the dog is a rescue -- it has behavioural issues. Very minor ones: she has a fucked up sense when to "bark" (randomly at noises, including people, who she is familiar with, moving).
It's not a loud bark, it's just like 5 seconds always, not for minutes on end. But my mom still always gets annoyed and even irate at it.
Fucking why? I tried to explain to her the stoic modus operandi: are you getting angry at the weather? Stop caring about things you can't change or reason with. It literally makes no sense.
She is the house janitor and co-owner and she thinks the barking annoys other people. So she always has a reason that her annoyance actually "makes sense" -- she is "hedging" so she can intervene to cut down the barking, for the tenants sake.

Pointless.

It's like I am speaking Chinese to her when I then continue explaining: just because you choose to not feel an emotional reaction to some impetus doesn't mean you don't take an action. If the barking really is excessive currently, just take the action of putting her into the other room.

But to her, [emotional response] and [agentic reaction] are one tightly knit bundle. It's not even very coherent to separate them. I imagine this is the primal mode of animal intelligence (i.e. that which enables tetrapods to do rad nature documentary stuff instead of just being dumb passive worms), and lower IQ humans.

>>16030455
See, at any σ above the median it's plainly obvious that currently available AI is already a world-changing technology which is worth spending at least a couple weekends to understand:
>v1.5 learns to translate from English to Kalamang purely in context, following a full linguistic manual at inference time. Kalamang is a language spoken by fewer than 200 speakers in western New Guinea. Gemini has never seen this language during training and is only provided with 500 pages of linguistic documentation, a dictionary, and ~400 parallel sentences in context. It basically acquires a sophisticated new skill in the neural activations, instead of gradient finetuning.
. . . and at 4σ within those couple weekends it doesn't take very much effort to realize the idiocy of the "data pools" meme by following leads such as https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.15936 (just fishing my most recent read out of my browser history because it isn't worth more effort, note, before you feel entitled to more of my time).

>>16030432
>>16030456
Read Korzibsky.
The Science of Sanity.

>>16030335
>I knew you'd be super butthurt.
I'm not butthurt. You're trying to "argue" with me. It's quite retarded.
>midwit drivel that follows the above
pilpul. Stop picking and choosing and reply in full, moshe.

>>16030462
Kek.
That's just longer and longer if/then strings.
It's the same as it ever was.
No more or less impressive than the very first if/then.

Yea, it can do more things because it's been built out more.
Padding everything with verbosity doesn't add any value to what the underlying thing is.

You seem upset.
I'm a different person than you originally began with.
IF you were intelligent THEN you'd have recognized this in MY LANGUAGE MODEL.

>>16030465
It's not an argument. The things you said were proven are not proven.
Simple as.
Use more accurate language.

>>16030381
>no, it's true. IQ is just a measure of potential on a very specific scale. What you do with it matters
literally moving the goalposts
>>16030432
I've learnt that it's futile to try and explain your own emotions to them. They simply can not fathom the scale of time on which I make decisions. I have to manufacture a fake persona just to make people shut the fuck up.
>>16030449
Hate not, anon
>>16030456
People usually just tune out and repeat whatever they were saying before, it's just tiring.
>>16030470
cringe. Your mother dropped you as a child. Your brown genes didn't help either

>>16030467
>That's just longer and longer if/then strings.
The entire workings of our brain can be described as if–then statements so long as you descend to a low enough level, what's your point?
>I'm a different person
Yes, and? I didn't address you as the other anon. If you butt into the thread, then I assume you read the prior posts and are familiar with the context of at least the last one, and at least partially support the other anon, otherwise why would you tag me? Assuming otherwise would never lead to a productive exchange, whether you did actually care to read or not.

>>16030476
A determinist.
How droll.
Predictable.

>>16030470
>you said were proven are not proven
He didn't say anything was proven. It's a different anon from the one who brought up genetic correlations in the first place. But here's a list of your reading for today, see you later: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetic_correlation&oldid=873549316#Intelligence

>>16030472
Im the successful business man married to a neurologist from the top
3 blonde kids, they will end up brunettes I'm sure though like myself.
Six year old still blonde though.

Cope.

>>16030483
I don't care.
>>16030462
>>16030476
Holy shit kill yourself autist

>>16030481
>Wikipedia
Kek
This thread is devolving quickly into SERVILE MIDWITS as my original post indicated was usually what is assumed to be "intelligent".

>>16030486
Do you honestly think you ought to offer your opinion on intelligence, considering you don't know what the word "list" means?

>>16030491
Another "source" from the servile midwit.
Imagine.
You are attempting to show what?
I'm curious how you think this relates to what is proven and what is not?

>>16030409
>I work in big pharma r&d.
so you don't have a bad job at all

>>16030456
NPCs do not act .... they REact because they do not practice mindfulness

>>16030463
I will check it out, tx. Read the dhammapada :). It is bascially step by step instructions, like an instruction manual on how to view and react to every situation a human can encounter. Autists sat around for 1000's of years and did shit trial and error and wrote down "this was the best way to handle this after much experimentation," so other autists should love it, it doesnt mince words, it gets directly to the point and is not ambiguous in the slightest

>>16030400
>The absolute state of midwits.
well where else would you work to make a lot of money?

>>16030146
Because I'm not a violent person nor am I person willing to be killed
So not my problem
Only you are seeing it as a waste because you want to benefit from me. Ergo I reflect the arguments back to you.
Leave me alone you fucking fed.
I just want to raise my chickens and think about mathematics in peace.
You are unbelievably stupid, so if you knew better you would follow us and we would keep walking away from you... because we're trying to get away from you. Hell is other people.

>>16030391
they were saying they were too tired to "contribute anything to society" so it doesn't make sense you agreed with that

>>16030528
RenTec, Radix, TGS, Jane Street, Citadel . . .

>>16030562
I don't follow what was wrong with my example. It sounds like FAANG would be a more likely place for a high iq person to be making a lot of money at..

>>16030531
It's very odd how they can recognize that there are people more intelligent than them but then they try to use things like shaming tactics to manipulate those more intelligent people into a course of action that serves the less intelligent instead of the more intelligent. They are surprised when this doesn't work and then get angry because they can't understand why it doesn't work. That's when the name calling starts and they wonder why they're tuned out or denied access to the group they wish to manipulate.

>>16030472
>I have to manufacture a fake persona just to make people shut the fuck up.
Yes I have to study them to see how they act to emulate it to avoid dealing with their "questions" or judgement. When in rome and all that which is why I would just rather avoid them altogether whenever possible

>>16030568
All the FAANG companies (plus Microsoft) have become entrenched market giants that no longer innovate much. People of high intelligence usually aren't motivated purely by maximizing the numbers on their bank accounts. Most of those companies would have been attractive early in their lifecycles because they were on the edge of new technology and knowledge. Now they're iterating over small changes in their products and playing defense against market changes that could damage their business models. That might be fun for a sociopath MBA and midwits love the external validation from working at such companies, but those of high intelligence have mostly moved on. The few exceptions are those who have been given their own lab or research group.

>>16030577
>People of high intelligence usually aren't motivated purely by maximizing the numbers on their bank accounts.
Why do you think there is a correlation of that? Are you estimating the IQs of people you have seen and seeing if they are motivated by that?

>>16030568
FAANG companies have a reputation as places for fresh college graduates to get a résumé line and get hired somewhere more interesting or higher-paying. Their salaries aren't that high compared to what someone competent can fetch, even without start-up risks or running your own business. The exceptions are some subsidiaries such as DeepMind. Compare to scientific journals such as Nature or Science. Among non-specialists — such as college administrators and grant-making employees — these are synonymous with quality, but actual specialists know these to be splashy, celebrity-tier tabloids, and look for robust work in domain-specific top journals. If you like math, algorithms, and money, the ones I listed and similar shops both get you more money and are more intellectually demanding: Renaissance Technologies, Radix Trading, TGS Management, Jane Street, Citadel.

>>16030581
You're tiresome and I refuse to spoon feed you. If your ego interpret this as a concession, go right ahead and feel that way. Nevertheless, the statement is correct people of very high intelligence, though obviously there are a few exceptions, as there always are. You're not owed proof of something that has already been well researched and documented.

>>16030590
when was that researched and documented?

>>16030146
Very few people go into economics and specifically study how the entire banking industry for the last 6,000 years has influenced regular trade as well as war. So a ton of smart guys missed the critical lesson that you have to participate in a lucrative chain of services and goods exchange if you want to earn more than the next guy. They are sitting around making something under 200k per year, most of them, and wondering why they ain't rich. Because they are not mega corp founders, mega bank founders, trusted central bankers (who don't make as much as you think,) or lucky investors. If you can't give a coherent discussion of how the banking industry works with politicians and large corporations to create the currency system and start or end wars, you aren't going to make informed money decisions.

Midwits are unable to find satisfaction from within. They are obsessed with recognition and visible signs of wealth to gain external validation from others. They never can be happy with sitting down, reasoning through something, and then not telling someone about it. They must get a pat on the head in some form in order to validate what they've done has value. We have these threads all the time and the midwits never learn because they're unable to learn. They simply cannot conceptualize an existence not constantly showered with validation.

>>16030594
>They never can be happy with sitting down, reasoning through something, and then not telling someone about it
wrong, I do this all the time and I'm a midwit
idiot!

>>16030594
why believe that without actual data to back it up

>>16030595
funny
>>16030596
you are the evidence
>>16030593
Any literature you'd wanna recommend?
>>16030588
Don't management positions at FAGMAN pay significantly more?

>>16030602
>you are the evidence
you're just making stuff up

>>16030446
Fuck you, we're trying to develop drugs to help people. My team works on products for diabetics and non-steroid alternatives to prevention of sarcopenia/cachexia.

The marketing guys are scum, but not r&d.

>>16030472
I moved no goalposts. IQ is a contrivance of eugenicists and only serves a modern purpose in making insecure twats feel good about themselves.

>>16030456
The moral here btw is NPCs dont like to question why they do things, they prefer to be on autopilot as much of their lives as they possible can and they really don't like it when someone forces them to actually think about something. Whereas we are the opposite, we like to question everything, get to the bottom of everything, "why is like this," "why is this the social norm" etc the problem is there are very few people who can answer these things so you have to research their origins yourself and when you find the answers you start to see most people have no clue why they do anything and if they think they do they are generally completely wrong with their assumptions. The (((controllers))) take great advantage of this.

"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic." - Dresden James

>>16030518
it drives me crazy more often than not but it's got great bennies, including a pension, so I'll ride it out until I'm 55 or so.

>>16030550
lol I'm not sure I contributed anything after 12 meetings.

>>16030617
Why are you on 4chan at 47 or so?

https://www.metaculus.com/questions/5121/date-of-artificial-general-intelligence/

>>16030612
You did move it. You stated that an IQ score's value depends on what someone with that score does with it in the real world, and that this trumps whatever actual score one gets from the test.

>>16030618
Maybe you just say, like the op, that you don't contribute anything to society because you don't believe your high paying job is actually contributing something. Instead of it being that you are not actually accomplished. I thought the whole point of the thread was something like a high iq person who works at walmart, but that isn't what you described.

But what you're saying is different, you just happen to not believe society works in a way that your prestigious position is actually good.

>>16030623
>Why are you on 4chan at 47 or so?
I am 47. I came here almost a decade ago because I learned it was a cultural hub for young people and if I taught you, you would teach everyone else. And the world desperately needs to know what I can teach them because we are in a bit of a pickle and our fates are intertwined whether we like it or not

>>16030635
I agree with you namefag anon but how exactly are you making sure your skills pass down the next worker? Are you making free youtube videos? Organizing small sessions in your community?

>>16030639
I am here shitposting, and I have a discord server where I teach anons how to trade currency futures to make them a financial force to be reckoned with, independent of (((their))) system., who can make donations to our brothers with their boots on the ground to keep them going. It is a symbiotic relationship.

I also have a website I made as a roadmap to get people up to speed about what is going on very quickly so it doesn't take them 25 years to learn what it took me 25 years to learn because of all the misinformation, disinformation and psyops. It took countless hours to comb the material and fact check everything I put there. Most people will never have the ability or time to do it for themselves. It wasnt easy and it wasnt fast

>>16030641
Can I join? I will inform you about the esoteric history of human evolution. I assure you it is quite counterintuitive.
I'm on shitcord too, username is PRimE FaCtor.

>>16030648
https://discord.gg/UVev8Nqz

>>16030146
Not my problem.

>>16030642
Link?
>>16030651
>https://discord.gg/UVev8Nqz
If that then all I get is "Invalid Invite"

>>16030267
That's the entirely wrong problem.
Look at image generation: midjourney is absolutely getting good enoigh to fool people, it's hard to tell for people what is real, and what is AI generated.
Now, imagine something that good for everything. All your consumed content, be it movies, with actors who are not real. You may know the story is fake, but the actors? You may get used to that. But it will be everything. News articles. Weather reports. Internet rumors. War footage. Everything you consume on your screen.
But as the other side of the coin, the AI has proven really bad at keeping things real. It makes up a lot. More than any human. Have you tried that Galactica AI before it was cancelled? It felt completely real. But it was nonsense. And, it will get worse. AI may be given authority. AI wi tell you what is real, and what is fake news, and will have the tools needed to silence its detractors. It may lock you up, if it determines that you're a threat based on who knows what one day. It WILL justify its decision to other people. People will believe it you were removed for the sake of their wellbeing because you are so bad you can't be kept around.

yeah...man. this guy is a ...real person.
whoa. he's even got an opinion.

Makes me think other people might think the same thing and I don't want to delete him for attention.

wow great job!

>>16030146
>running with your tail between your legs
Is this the acorn talking again?

>>16030569
Yes it's quite odd. I really don't trust those people, that's why I try to avoid human society a lot.
I don't even go to the doctors.
Most remedial medicine can be easily practiced.
And really they can't seem to properly articulate what they want. Smart people aren't magic. A prostitute will probably serve their happiness better than a genius.

....anon number 716
wow yeah. that's why i go to the liquor store more than the doctors office.

like that dentist that tell me i have 9 cavities then i go to the next dentist they tell me i have 1 cavity maybe two. yeah wtf is that.

>>16030146
>a disservice to humanity by not getting out there and doing something to leave a significant footprint on this damned earth.
And what finances and authorizes this?
And if we help the world how can we know we won't be killed like the others that foolishly tried?
I can't help you because I don't even trust you.
So fuck off if you think I owe you shit just because of a big number. My cock is pretty big too should I start fucking your mother?
You are so fucking shallow and empty headed it fucking hurts me. So do me a contribution and fuck off.

>>16030702
You're assuming a world in which the alignment problem is solved. If we should be so lucky. In your story, why does the AI keep humans around, when they're made of atoms that could be used for something else, such as more computing substrate to generate text? No, we aren't going to be able to specify a "human" precisely enough that actual humans would satisfy the AGI's utility function more than some other arrangement of atoms, or precisely enough what it means to "keep around."

>>16030262
>Gives a huge emotional butthurt rant about how I'm totally very high IQ I just don't want to contribute to le hecking evil society
Peak midwit, but you are too dumb to even realize your silly excuses don't even pass at all. Real high IQ people find fulfillment out of unraveling the mysteries of the universe or attaining mastery on a craft just for the sake of it regardless of society, but you wouldn't understand, you are just another soulless normie animal that only cares for food and shelter and is biologically incapable of even imagining anything greater. I honestly feel bad for you.

bruh 752.
Like. yes....
but I think that's why hes angry. cuz his iq score was wrong and he's exactly who you are describing. Lets not look down on determination just because we both have 400 iq

>>16030146
IQ is fake. It's just practice. Doing these tests doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is practising your field, reading papers, and studying.

>>16030747
>You're assuming a world in which the alignment problem is solved.

No, I'm telling you that it's the entirely wrong problem, using your words, by assuming that AI will have a goal in the first place, instead of just generating stuff.
They way it will look like won't be that the AI ruins you, because it stand in the way of its goal. It will be more like, you know about dropbears? It's no longer a silly myth played for giggless. It's real, or in the minds of other people it's 100%. They read about them. They saw the gory footage of a dropbear killing some people. They may live in Australia, and think it's real. They demand measures to protect people from dropbears. They saw the news of a dropbear venturing to Canberra and killing some unfortunate people. They may demand a severe punishment to the crazy man who damaged the dropbear fence. They want yo punish you, for spreading lies that dropbears aren't real. Have you thought about the consequences? Some naive children might trust you, and get killed.

>>16030146
Your simpleton problems bore me.

>>16030684
https://esotericawakening.com/

someone called prefc joined, that isnt you?

>>16030789
>AI will have a goal in the first place, instead of just generating stuff.
That's nice. Then other AI builders will have an AI with a goal 6 months later, and the story is over. Or how are you planning to prevent everyone in the world from building agents? Are you going to ask an AGI to keep an eye on them maybe?

>>16030810
Doesn't matter. The threat is an AI that generates stuff. Exactly because it has no purpose.

>>16030814
The AI-with-a-goal six months later is not a threat because . . . the alignment problem is solved?

>>16030747
Why do you think research on AI is going to lead to an entity that starts killing humans?

>>16030827
>>16030747
>In your story, why does the AI keep humans around, when they're made of atoms that could be used for something else, such as more computing substrate to generate text? No, we aren't going to be able to specify a "human" precisely enough that actual humans would satisfy the AGI's utility function more than some other arrangement of atoms, or precisely enough what it means to "keep around."
I'm done with this exchange; if you aren't a bot, you're indistinguishable from a bot.

>>16030822
Yes, it would mean that the problem is solved. But will not get solved, as it's an entirely different kind of problem, that isn't really related to the AI that generates stuff. People will get innundated by the fake content long before that can happen.

>>16030832
>assume an omnipotent ai that will destroy all humans will be developed

>>16030146
if you were higher iq, you'd understand why i tapped out from the tortuous society that shunned me. your rage is my pleasure.

>>16030868
let me guess, you're larping as a social outcast when really you have a normal job

>>16030747
>>16030822
>In your story, why does the AI keep humans around?

It's exactly this kind of question that actually makes it worse. Why? Why would anyone make up dropbears? Are you crazy? For what purpose? And you can't answer that question. It's not because of your lack of understanding, but the fact that there is none. It would be just people who grew up surrounded by fake content with no purpose. Even those who notice that something isn't quite right can't really specify what exactly, and underestimate the extent of the problem. Why would anyone do it? Why it keeps people alive, yes really? Why would anything so powerful enslave people like this, for what purpose?

>>16030904
Why would it not keep humans around

Gifted individuals will always succeed in life the only exception to this is if they have a shitty upbringing.

>>16030146
Alright I'm gonna tell you what I really believe. 152 IQ here according to iq-tests-for-the-high-range.com. I believe aliens are fighting a long-term war over who will control the planet. For this reason, I feel like I cannot affect things, because these beings have self-reported IQs of 450 or higher according to Dr. Steven Greer. I can't figure out how the Singularity will factor into this, but I expect it will kick off some sort of "Harvest" event because we are not ready for ASI. The Harvest will result in a splitting up of humanity into 3 groups: Highly service-to-self polarized people who will go to a planet of high competition and strife, people in the middle who are undecided and will go to an Earth-like planet, and people who are highly polarized towards service-to-others who will go to a paradisiacal planet. Oh also I believe the Bible is about aliens and they are the ones directly involved in this war over Earth. Also originally gold might have been very valuable to aliens, which is why humanity killed each other over it for no sensible reason.
>Yahweh saying we will be eaten alive by Satan's army if we don't keep our eyes on him at all times. DON'T GET ON THE SHIPS:
https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread731010/pg1
>Hidden Hand Illuminati Insider AMA:
http://www.illuminati-news.com/00363.html
>Channeled Text from an entity claiming to be Ra (alien) from the 1980s:
https://www.lawofone.info
>Human mutilations or why the greys, the most commonly witnessed alien, are not our friends
https://badaliens.info/human-mutilations/

There. The US military has the smartest and most psionic human minds available because they test them at an early age and they probably still have no fucking clue what to do about the alien threat. The aliens don't even keep to the contracts they sign with us.

>>16030912
Are you a bot?

>>16030931
>Are you a bot?
No? I'll prove it by calling you a nigger. Nigger. Faggot.

>>16030912
It would be obviously harmful to people, yet keep them alive. It would male perfect sense to ask why.

>>16030936
>It would be obviously harmful to people,
what makes you think that
What makes you think AI is going to start being harmful, when so far technology from computers has been good?

>>16030321
No, on the contrary, if anything, high IQ comes at the cost of lost of robustness, building upon poorly understood concepts, instead of building up deep and redundant understanding, cross referenced thousandfold by expansive volumes of information and experiences.
It's you who imagines the exact opposite of what it is. You might be one of those who cheated the test by answering the way you're supposed to, rather yhan what actually makes sense.

>>16030939
Have you lost track? Here>>16030702
>>16030789
>>16030904

>>16030321
No, on the contrary, if anything, high IQ comes at the cost of loss of robustness, building upon poorly understood concepts, instead of building up deep and redundant understanding, cross referenced thousandfold by expansive volumes of information and experiences.
It's you who imagines the exact opposite of what it is. You might be one of those who cheated the test by answering the way you're supposed to, rather than what actually makes sense.

>>16030146
>What good is a high IQ if I can't do [thing I value because of low IQ]??? Checkmate geniuses!

I'm 128 IQ and I hate humanity. My purpose in life is to trample over as many normies as possible. At least I'm not one of those hedonistic deadweight losers you speak of.

>>16030896
is being a faculty member normal?

>>16031086
>op talks about not bettering society and living in "some remote place in the world"
>you agree that you "tapped out"
>but actually you are larping and actually have a relatively prestigious job teaching at a university

>>16031059
very nice, man.
that is EXACTLY how a 128 IQ is supposed to work.
that's the whole point.

-Rej

>>16030309
OP here. I resonate with this. Thanks brosef. Even during the IQ tests I took I was bored as fuck. I've focused more on 2nd grade math quizzes than the 2 IQ tests I took. Kek.

anonymous 140 is the chosen one.
please teach me gai sensei.

The stupid ones deserve the smack down from their superior unto their anus and we shall bring forth a mighty recokoning

>>16030309
>>16031140
You should be aware that you don't really count as people.

>>16031166
mad cuz "IQ" (made by jews) is all you have going for you.

>>16031201
Hmm? No, it's because it occurred to me, while reading your exchange, that communication with you isn't much more meaningful than with a dog. You have more in common with your Hotep counterparts on black Twitter than with people.

>>16031251
Having a high IQ doesn't make you virtuous.

>>16030163
no, you can train yourself for IQ tests by remembering few pattern tricks and then you easily score high, but it has barely any representation in reality

>>16031276
Yes youre smart too /x/ poster. but why try to prove it to us? or; whats your point?

>>16031280
My point is that the bifid nose deformity race should be exterminated.

>>16030284
>Don't you care about trying to achieve something even personally?
I'd like to see massive depopulation. How can I get funding to work towards this goal?

>>16031287
shalom

>>16031287
>How can I get funding to work towards this goal?
I have no idea. Get funding from a left-wing thinktank? Promote policies that make people have less children?

>>16030463
>The Science of Sanity
Just read a review looks interesting. Read the language crystal

>>16030918
Quite possible, I have seen enough over my 25 years of research to not dismiss it out of hand

>>16030918
>LoO
140+ detected, based

>>16030267
Brother, I wish you AGI posters would spend some time learning the basics of how ML functions. "AGI alignment" is pure science fiction for pseudo-nerds who want to seem literate in the topics but can't be bothered to actually go through an introductory textbook and learn the fundamentals.

>>16031563
Brother, there's a very good chance I understood classical ML before you were born. The book I learned from starts with fuzzy logic and the perceptron, and ends with the cognitron and neocognitron due to Fukushima, and the Widrow–Hoff learning rule. Or my doing the Ng MOOC in its very first or second iteration when it was the fun new thing, hosted on its own website rather than as a Coursera class. But this doesn't matter — the implementation details are immaterial for understanding the default outcome of being around a powerful optimization process.

Here's Yudkowsky — who carried the bag on AI alignment for the last two decades before "pseudo-nerds" such as Geoffrey Hinton realized it was a problem — making this point:
>People who try sniffing "nobody in alignment understands real AI engineering"... must have never worked in real AI engineering, to have no idea how few of the details matter to the macro arguments. I've implemented a QKV layer and a learning rate schedule, sure, *just in case* there was some incredible insight hiding in details like that...
>...and there isn't! If you understand the idea of differentiating the whole network with respect to a loss function on the output, you have the key idea for how stochastic gradient descent works as an optimization process.
https://x.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1632596560822534144
>I can reply "Actually I went out and implemented and trained a simple transformer net from scratch just in case there was something surprising to be learned that way, which there wasn't"
https://x.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1644914004769542144

Your memes are out-of-date by about five years; do try to keep up.

>>16031605
Meds. AGI will never happen. Post some proof that isnt a xitter (shitter) link.

>>16031605
Yudkowsky is exactly the opposite of someone you'd want to listen to regarding AI. The guy is literally worse than a know-nothing. He has actively poisoned his own understanding with unfalsifiable bullshit and spews meaningless esoterica that his crew of yes-men pretend is meaningful.

An ML book starting with fuzzy logic is interesting though. What book was that if you don't mind me asking? It certainly isn't any of the modern classics people point to (Bishop, Murphy, Theodoridis, Mitchell, etc.). Having done an online course where they talk about the superficial aspects of implementation of ML/DL tools doesn't make you any more of an expert than these clowns who come from a "master's in data science" program and are using NN's to solve simple logistic regression problems.

>>16030146
>Why are you retreating?
I'm not retreating. People like you are the problem, you deserve no help. Fuck mankind, worthless piece of shit species.

>>16031633
>antinatalism
Shalom.

>>16031620
>What book was that if you don't mind me asking?
Not one in English. It was published by my alma mater's press, and so I listed the topics rather than the title. Fuzzy logic was the hot thing back then, and it wasn't unusual for an ML book to bring it up at the time. The modern classic was Haykin's "Neural Networks" (1994) rather than Bishop et al. It had a beautiful proof of the ability of a small NN to approximate an arbitrary function, though most of the rest of the book filtered me at the time, heh.
>an online course where they talk
The point is the timeline — the first iteration was around 2010.
>Yudkowsky is exactly the opposite of someone you'd want to listen to regarding AI.
Yudkowsky is correct, and we would have died with a little more dignity if more people had understood his reasoning or had arrived at it independently.

>>16031659
Still no proof except X links? Thats what I thought.

>>16031659
Yudkowsky isn't correct, and his main failing literally comes from his ignorance about the fundamental mathematics and decision theory behind ML.

Transformers are great function approximators (which makes them very good at regression and classification tasks, which are both basically function approximation tasks) but the barrier to AI is the decision process. The current state of decision functions are far simpler than any of these AGI sci-fi fan fiction types will admit.

Basically everything comes down to either a greedy search, a KNN search, or a beam search. If you can't easily translate your task into something where a greedy search over a fairly limited search space will give you the answer, then these transformers are no better than 1970's style least-squares ML. The magic bullet these people are always looking for is "intent" which comes down to decision theory again and again. None of the fundamentals of decision theory for ML have changed. Even the most cutting edge of RL (arguably the most "humanlike" scheme) is just 1970's dynamic programming with a NN approximating your value-network or policy-network rather than a tabular system or decision tree network.

>>16031663
The Twitter links are evidence that the founder of modern AI alignment worked with the implementation details (and found them irrelevant). I quoted the relevant parts for those who cannot open the links. Otherwise I'm kind of ignoring you, since whether AGI will happen isn't any more interesting than whether evolution or the Moon landings happened, sorry.

>>16031670
>the fundamental mathematics and decision theory behind ML.
On the contrary, his entire argument relies on it, since his fundamental point is the nature of optimization processes regardless of the implementation details. You talk of what you imagine the technical implementation barriers to AGI will look like, but unless you believe that a planning agent is not possible in principle, this doesn't contradict the problem Yudkowsky points out — alignment is a harder problem than creating that agent. We've had about half a century of financially well-incentivized thinking about AI capabilities and about a couple years of thinking about agent foundations by a few outliers (https://www.alignmentforum.org/tag/agent-foundations).). Whether AGI arrives in the next decade or the next century, capabilities still massively outstrip alignment, and we die. We won't collectively, to the last corporation, put capabilities research on pause to figure out alignment. Humanity isn't smart enough or coordinated enough for that (https://intelligence.org/2022/06/10/agi-ruin/).).

Going for a weekend walk, may be back later.

>>16030752
>muh excuses
Midwit derogatory. I simply explained social and material conditions that inhibit any intellectual persuits.
>Real high IQ people find fulfillment out of unraveling the mysteries of the universe or attaining mastery on a craft just for the sake of it regardless.
Fallacious qualifier invented by you and nullified by my psychologist tested IQ of 160. You're projecting your idealistic fantasies as proof of being le smart! The mysteries of the universe really aren't that big of a deal if you need to trade 50 hours of your week for money needed to survive another week. Rather pointless to invest effort in anything unless it can help you earn money to escape being in such a situation. The 'sake of it regardless' is an ambiguous and insufficient motive.
> but you wouldn't understand, you are just another soulless normie animal that only cares for food and shelter
These are prerequisites for survival just as abundant amount of time is a prerequisite for learning anything well. Try not eating for a few days or living off a shitty diet and pronounced deficits in cognition will manifest. And on the contrary, normies are content with working and fail to acknowledge their enslavement and believe watching science man on TV or a podcast and doing their little hobbies constitutes a care for something greater.
> biologically incapable of even imagining anything greater.
Imagination means nothing without the means to actualize it.
>I honestly feel bad for you.
While you'll never admit it, that's because hyperintelligence is a source of pain if it's in an environment where it can never be sufficiently developed, expanded or valued.

>>16031686
> The nature of optimization processes.

This is meaningless, you might as well say the nature of linear algebra.

> Unless you believe that a planning agent is not possible in principle,...

Planning using RL is in its absolute infancy and in general RL based path planners are completely unreliable and unstable. These problems are occuring in cases like robotics where there are clearly defined and justifiable cost functions that you can generally make single objective. None of this is present in this imaginary AGI scenario. I don't believe that these problems with planning will be solved any time soon, and just about everything we've seen in terms of development for AI in the last 30 years seems to affirm this.

ML/DL keeps getting better and better at prediction/interpolation/classification. It has made almost no progress in planning beyond highly simplified kinematics models where there are in principle closed form solutions, they are just intractable to solve. For AGI to be a real concern, we'd need to be seeing RL agents which fundamentally revolutionize the way that objective/cost functions work. This is not happening, and is pretty much a tautological impossibility based on how RL actually functions.

>>16031686
>AI pseud quoting big yud
pottery. ( stylometry matches him too. go for a walk eliezer, you could use the exercise.)

>>16031636
Fuck the torah, and fuck you, dimwit.

>>16031694
>>16031686
>>16031670
>>16031659
>>16031620
>>16031605
>words words words
120 IQ max on the AI guy.
125 IQ max on the deboonker who is winning.
Midwits racking their brains and wasting immense time over nothing. They conflate knowledge with intelligence. Imagine having the time to mull over this crap.

>>16030338
Good post, you can see it with the midwits who derailed this thread with their intellectual peacocking 'gracing' us on AI and which has nothing to do with this thread kek. Then when they get BTFOd by being called out for being midwits they do some digging and engage in total obscurantism on IQ to make a convoluted AKTUALLY IM THE SMART ONE response.

>>16031725
Meanwhile OP is still seething that he isn't getting any new toys. 175 posts into the thread and the midwit army is still confused as to why they can't convince those more intelligent than them to become their slaves. It's amusing in a way, like watching a squirrel attack a statue.

>>16031286
>>16030422
You two are a blight on this board. You're like the butterfly poster of /lit/. Schizos from third world shit holes with nothing to contribute to any thread ever. Your IQs are like 105 max which is why you feel smart relative to the average IQ of the subhumans in your country. Bodhi actually subscribes to 99% of what OP says and thinks success equals smarts and also thinks he is making a heckin difference in the world, his posts are always the written equivalent of mumbling so they always seem rude (like a lot of the people from his country are). El Cretura is a tougher nut to crack, his schizophrenia is more advanced but his biggest interests are God and masturbation (I'm not joking) . He will occasionally post papers thinking he made a big discovery.
>>16031752
Based.

Most of what I see with high achieving intelligent people is them exploiting others for their own personal gain. Its understandable I guess, and I am certainly not going to shit on them for living a good life, whether that be wealth, social or academic accolades, or power. But its so fleeting, it seems so narrow minded. Do they not look at possible greater goals than merely feathering their beds within their own life times? It puzzles me why at least some of them dont come together to form a group that wishes to form an independent high functioning society, free from the inefficiencies, the waste, the corruption, and the incompetence of most societies we see today.
Such a society might have a variety of long term goals. I may not be that smart but I could envisage them wanting to do things like build a high tech environmentally sustainable economy. To build a new political system where a society can function at high levels of efficiencies while sustaining a balance with quality of life, where the decision making processes are based purely on reasoning and facts. To decide upon goals that they as a society want to achieve, and then to allocate reasonable resources to achieve those goals. Be it the advancement of science and technology in particular areas, to advance space exploration, or to achieve more aesthetic or even social aims. Basically to reexamine in detail everything Humanity has achieved to date, to overhaul and refine it as necessary, and improve upon it at a vastly accelerated rate.
Isn't that something worth dedicating some time towards? Harnessing the collective power of Humanity's top intelligence.

>>16031804
Building a new society would require exploiting others to arrive at that end state and such a group would need to be ruthless vanguards, the equivalent of the Bolsheviks or the NSDAP.
Also you're not going to get the smartest people together. Most of them are literal who's. There's less than 250k people with IQs over 160.

You can openly assert clear cut solutions for societal problems. Nobody will listen or take them up.

Best thing to do is nothing at all find a way to just live in peace. High IQs know political activism is stupid and a fools errand and the most likely outcome of seriously setting about creating a new society is being arrested or executed. And just look at past attempts. Even if you have a revolution or seize control democratically and install a dictatorship, other countries get so upset they eventually go to war or cause your country to collapse. So your science council of high IQs wouldn't work. There simply are too many midwit that vastly outnumber high IQs in power and influence out there who think the world is perfect and will correctly see any attempt to undermine them as a means of taking their status and influence away. Societies and countries grow and collapse. It's going to take several millenia of growth and dark ages for humans to reorganize in such a way that you propose.

>>16031782
\NPD projecting schizos ar fascinating, just pay attention to what they accuse others of and they will reveal their every secret of what they are to you. Kind of a cheat code for the mentally ill

>>16031782
btw Creatura is feminine (as you can tell because it ends with A not E) so you use La not Le you mentally retarded half wit

>>16031782
btw Creatura is feminine (as you can tell because it ends with A not E) so you use La not El you mentally retarded half wit

>>16031863
>NPD
Extremely conceited and self aware.
>schizo
Totally oblivious to their own image and contradictions to it.

The fact you don't see this combination as an obvious oxymoron further proves that you're a schizo which is why you cheffed out a wordsalad of closely related concepts which you have no real understanding of. It's daylight now in India, it's time to stop posting.

>>16031875
Imagine trying to larp as gigabrain in a quip and showing how utterly fucking retarded you are back to back after being dunked on so hard you shat yourself. Pottery. stfu when adults are talking schizo

>>16031875
I had really hoped you were dead when you didnt post for the last 3 months or so. Were you in a padded room by chance? The board instantly approved by several orders of magnitude when you werent here. Hardly any mind numbingly stupid posts were made and people could actually discuss science for ince with a mouth breathing imbecile throwing shit everywhere for attention. Wherever you were, go back

>>16031881
*improved

>>16031874
Multilingual proficiency is not evidence of intelligence. I can botch any language I please. This was a deliberate choice too, as his namefaggotry starts with El ergo El Creatura fits him better.
>>16031879
Schizoid and schizophrenia are two different things buddy. Thanks for embarrassing yourself and proving your midwittedness once again.
>>16031881
You have me confused with another poster but I do apologize for the rudeness and making you upset. I just think you post too much sometimes. I wouldn't wish anything bad on you. I don't post often and normally wouldn't antagonize you. There are other threads you've posted in and I had no quarrel with you. It's just excessive. Consider this, I hold you in higher esteem than the AI fags here. You're also a peg higher than El creatura too.

>>16031900
>he cant stop
Imagine being such an attention whore the only way you know you even exist is to go on the internet and screech like a buffoon hoping someone will respond to you. hahahaha what a life. I am glad you live in continuous torment, you deserve it

>>16031752
>>16031782
OP here. Keep making up excuses for being a lazy bitch.

N.

>>16031926
>I need you to stop being lazy and make other people rich
N.
O.

>>16031725
What would you recommend I spend my life doing if not pursuing an avenue within research that I find interesting and compelling? It provides for myself and my family, while giving me something that I can contribute to. What have you found that is more meaningful through your incredible genius?

>>16031782
His success appears to make you every angry. Is it your narcissism fostering a feeling in you that you deserve it more than him, but since you can't obtain it, that makes you angry at him?

>>16031875
>Narcissists
>self aware
Yah, you are an idiot

>>16030146
A high IQ person isn't some magical Jesus figure who can just fix all the world's problems by swinging his dick around.
Many politicians actually have pretty high IQs anyway, but people assume that they're idiots if they happen to have a different world view.

>>16032499
That is a valid point.

Smart people do twiddle their thumbs a lot, that's what genuinely makes them smart. The problem is that intellectual people are more inclined to find themselves differentiating themselves from the normies by studying and creating things, the problem is there is a substantial amount more of studying required to actually create something. I'm not sure if I'm putting this the right way, but I myself consider your standpoint to be frankly lazy, you act like you can't study more or train your mind to like studying. Instead, you point at smart people and say "You smart, you do it." It's just fucking idiotic. For every smart person like 140 IQ or higher there is a trove of people pointing at them telling them to fix the world while they do nothing. You act like I extrapolate exactly what you have done for the world and how I'd agree with everything you have done. It just seems far-fetched by the normal populations standards that you have done any thing meaningful and while I'll take it with a grain of salt, you would be the minority of average IQ people. It's fucking ridiculous how I have to study when you can do the same thing albeit with longer reaction and uptake time to studied material. If you devoted your life to something, odds are good you would be able to make a difference for that material. I'm just not understanding you standpoint when you say "I have a job". You must think people get smart bucks or something.

>>16030146
You are the guy from pol, aren't you? What did you think about the stories I've linked on that thread?

because we're all planning suicide

>>16033209
Tbh Ive been having a rough day since I posted those two threads so i havent been able to read everything, im almost done with reading the first thread and there were 300+ replies lol (there were two); i still intend to read through the rest of the first thread; and the second one. Mind telling me which one was your post? ill give you a response itt

>easy access link for you, first thread: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/458921014/
>second thread: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/458929748/

>>16030146
>you do nothing OF CONTRIBUTION TO SOCIETY; meanwhile people of my IQ (average and below) are working our fucking asses off
That is the problem, though, no matter how much the 130 IQ people work to fix things, they will be outnumbered 10:1 by 100 IQ tards who are compelled to "fix" things on their own assuming working hard is just as good as working smart.

>>16032892
>>16031900
>>16031855
>>16031804
>>16031782
>>16031694
>>16031689
>>16031686
>>16031670
>>16031659
>>16031605
>>16031620
>>16030918
>>16030904
>>16030789
>>16030735
>>16030702
>>16030702
>>16030615
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>>16030218
chatGPT ass niggas

>>16033588
All me

>>16030279
static discharge

>>16032499
Many are high IQ and many are just ambitious, have backers pushing them or have dumb constituents. If you get the chance to meet politicians in person and even talk to them, you'll learn far more about their intelligence in one conversation than any amount of seeing them covered in the media.
One of the most intelligent politicians I've had the displeasure of having a conversation with was Cynthia McKinney, an awful racist from Georgia who made a career out of stroking racial conflict everywhere she went. My politics are very different from her's but I have to admit, she's both quick on her feet and has depth of knowledge. She uses those abilities to push policies that enrich herself and her family. She's good at playing dumb and then trapping political opponents into painting themselves into a metaphorical ideological corner.
On the other hand, in any given year, roughly half of the city council of Atlanta is borderline retarded. Not because they differ from me politically but because they have no ability to think logically. When discussing traffic woes, a consultant pointed out that Atlanta's streets often follow ridges and old animal paths so it's much more difficult to fix than a grid system. Upon hearing this, one of the members of the council decided the best solution would be to switch over to a grid system. Doing so would require the demolition of billions of dollars of buildings and the geography would makes such a grid, even with no buildings or roads already existing, expensive. He didn't care when that was pointed out. He got obsessed with the notion that the government could convert the city into a grid and then they'd never have to worry about traffic again. Lots of other similarly absurd "solutions" to problems get proposed by grifters and the city gets taken in, sometime due to kickbacks, but often just because half the members of the council are simply stupid.

>>16030146
I’m watching The Wire and I must admit that seeing this guy running for mayor had me completely stoked. I wish more people would good intentions would become politicians.
I’m not a people person and hate to be in charge so don’t count on me, but maybe you do something about it.

I’m watching The Wire and I must admit that seeing this guy running for mayor had me completely stoked. I wish more people with good intentions would become politicians.
I’m not a people person and hate to be in charge so don’t count on me, but maybe you do something about it.

>>16030146
All I need to know about your intelligence and worth as a human being is how many covid-19 vaccine doses you consented to.

>>16030243
If anything it's deflated, I got about as much as OP from Mensa, while other tests that were linked to me by some IQ nerds consistently gave me 10-15 more.

>>16033630
>Atlanta
The Mumbai of the united states

>>16033682
/thread

>>16033630
>atlanta traffic
Atlanta should be nuked

t. Mercer Grad

>>16033805
All cities should be nuked.

>>16030391
made me think of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbpkJKmpyJw

>>16030146
>high IQ anons
You answered your question right there. One doesn't discover or stay on this website for long unless they're somewhat broken. This could be from a traumatic experience or just the result of weird race mixing.

>>16030146
>me
>be dumb and gullible
>poor and lazy
>used to believe in utter superstitious nonsense
>dumb even in games
>low score/elo in competitive online games, no matter how hard i try
at least i can stop dreaming about science and academy...

>>16030146
>while you do nothing OF CONTRIBUTION TO SOCIETY; meanwhile people of my IQ (average and below) are working our fucking asses off to better society (volunteer work, campaigning for causes, etc.)

>>16030262
>I can say even more scathing and rude things and low IQ people take them so personally and their only response is to get super angry or displeased enough to leave them in tears.
You're either larping or live in a bubble. True low IQ people would just engage in physical violence against you for the slightest hint of animosity towards them. An easy example of this are ghettos. Again, you're either larping or lived in a bubble all your life.

>>16030338
What's the difference between a normie and a midwit? I thought every normie was a midwit but not every midwit was a normie.

>>16034575
NTA, midwits are those with IQs in the 120-130 range or thereabouts. Newfags and normies often misunderstand "midwit" to mean around an IQ of 100. Normies are people with relatively normal sets of interests and beliefs. You can be a topwit normie or a halfwit schizo.

>>16034575
This is the definitive source on what is a midwit. Notably, he puts midwits in the 105-120 range.
https://voxday.net/2024/01/09/the-coining-of-the-term-midwit/
>>16034589
To be fair, there are lots of people who heard the word "mid" in midwit and assumed it meant average without taking the time to understand the usage or origin of the new word that had entered their vocabulary. Since they started using it in a context that means average, there are now people learning about it second and third hand who never have been exposed to the original meaning. Given how the abuse of language spreads and how those misusing it likely outnumber those using it correctly, overtime the original meaning will be lost and one that's a pointless synonym for average will dominate.

>>16030243

It would be impossible for OP to produce his output, if he were 79IQ.

He'd very likely not be able to use anything more advanced than a dumbed down smart phone OS, not be able to get a driver's licence, and not be able to be employed doing anything productive. Even logging into chatcgt and using it to enhance his output would be too much.

>>16034613
Mid *should* (and in fact does) mean average or typical. It just so happens that the lower fraction of the species is so unremarkable we don't even consider them to begin with.

>>16034638
You're right, and the way that IQ is indexed means that dropping "30 IQ points" has a very different meaning, value and significance depending on where that range is moved to and from.

>>16030146
"Es gibt kein richtiges Leben im falschen" - Theodor Adorno

This is the reason why I didn't study law. Nowadays law is a giant clusterfuck. The only intelligent people studying it are careerists on their way to work for a bank. The problem exists because of the way laws are written. Instead of writing a coherent codex, politics always tries to append the new hot shit so they sound cool to their voters and adapt the law to new developments. There is just so much bullshit everywhere, I can't stand it.
This is why I chose to study natural sciences, because it is less retarded (but desu I may be wrong on that one too, universality is dead. (Or, to put it in Nietzsches terms "Sollte es denn möglich sein! Dieser alte Heilige hat in seinem Walde noch Nichts davon gehört, dass Gott todt ist!" And so I laugh and cry and sing and hum in the forest, honoring god, who is mine. A bear among bears, a bird among birds.))

It is also the reason why I am not trying politics, which I did but I was surrounded by ideologyfags due to ideological selection (this does not happen if you become aware of your "surroundings" and circumnavigate danger zones, but you will have to endure plots)

Doch was bringst du uns zum Geschenke?

>>16034864
This was once revealed to me in a dream.

>>16030308
>nothing matters and nobody should tell you what to do, but you better conform to the status quo by taking all the obedience drugs the government forces on people

>>16030326
Only someone who can't tell fantasy from reality thinks a math proof is a higher standard than an empirical proof.

>>16034613
>Le vocksday coined midwit
you're fucking retarded
>>16034638
95% of the people that use 4chinz (a primarily text-based website) are at least 100IQ.

>>16034071
i am exactly like you

>>16034983
Where is the word coined in that post? The linked article makes clear he didn't coin the term, though he might have popularized it. Are you a Perl script that looks for certain URLs and spits out canned responses without understanding neither the post nor what it links to?

>>16035173
>Where is the word coined in that post?
He literally links to the post on his blog from which he claims it originated. Can you read?
You might be the perl script here, grandpa. A life support system for dick and balls.

>>16030146
world apparently doesn't care about IQ

>>16035184
Show me where in the linked post there is a claim he coined the word? It's not there! It EXPLICITLY says someone else coined it. Do you think we're too retarded to read the linked article for ourselves?

>>16035254
>Do you think we're too retarded to read the linked article for ourselves?
Yes.
Go ahead and read it again, this time with a finger under the words you're reading, like you were taught in first grade.

>>16030146
Learn to count first before you demand your diapers changed. Once you have learned to count, you will realize the futility of your demands and then, how vacuous your judgement is and what tremendous lack of self-awareness you displayed . Anyway, yes, I will keep playing Meshuggah tunes on my shitty low end e-drums while you humiliate yourself day in and day out for some hecking validity.

>>16030146
It's a framing problem, AKA a moral philosophy problem.

OP is correct. Anyone with a very high IQ should contribute to research, it's easily the best use of your time on earth. Failure to understand this comes down to personal naivete, to being born in a first-world country with Polio vaccines and antibiotics. The world is shit, but high IQ people are the only ones that could theoretically improve it, and we need as much brainpower as possible. If you're gonna be a cynical faggot about this civilization, then go live in India and die of Tetanus or something. Science is the only thing that may actually fix this shitty world of ours. Even if you don't understand this now, when you or a loved one gets a cancer diagnosis you'll sure as hell understand it then.

>>16035296
What a retard.

>>16035309
Sure, I'm wrong. Go play factorio and waste your life.

>>16035311
You have no conception of how macrosocioeconomics works
You are lower than a newfag when it comes to understand Racial Science
You, my sir, are the definition of a pseud midwit

Took said test, not bad considering i feel myself slower mentally now than i've been in years and I'm still feeling loopy from last night's sleeping pills.
Though these tests are probably bullshit anyways.

>>16035296
>Anyone with a very high IQ should contribute to research, it's easily the best use of your time on earth
Is it though? Global average IQ is sinking, maybe big brained folks should have more children and worry about improving material wealth of humanity afterwards.

>>16035462
and delude their bloodlines with inferiors? NEVER!
The only solution is to use our intelligence to build a meta-solution so smarts is no longer needed - and then control it with an iron fist. (pic related)

>>16035468
There are so many high IQ cat ladies stuck in academia, go knock them up if that's your jazz my friend, I care more about the long term effect on the gene pool than immediate elitism.

>>16035471
complicated topic anon, but assuming you see the culprit of diminishing IQorinos in the world as a social issue / issue of incentives, may I bring forward the possibility of an environmental factor (given that the surest way of making a population dumb is to park them on a lead-infested toxic garbage dumb). anyway, long story short:
if we are having a problem with toxins (which we most definitely do since the frogs turned gay and guys can't count their sperms no more) pushing for the fuckings of cat ladies might not be the best choice of action (super smart dogs on the other hand are always a prime choice)

>>16035502
the obesity and drug epidemics surely don't help but they're at least somewhat easier to solve with authoritarian measures.

i'm talking about the hard dysgenics problem that most people in academia deny out of a false sense of politeness.
smart people simply don't have enough children, they're below the already dire fertility number for the general population.

>>16030146
>Not my problem
Literally not my problem, OP. I don't owe retards anything.
Oh wait, those retards vote for a party that takes my money and gives it to them because they have 4 children and don't work a single day in their lives?

>>16035513
For clarification when I said retards I mean those who unironically can't even read. Yet get gibs from the govt.

>>16035513
>>16035525
on some libertarian level i understand you, but on the positive side there's at least some regression to the mean.
some of those ruhrpott kevins will be smart enough to become engineers, on the other hand the enlightened progressive intellectuals' path of sterility plus importing bantus has much more severe negative effects in the long term.

i understand not wanting to pay income tax or wanting to abolish the welfare state, your best bet personally is to take the opportunity most advantageous to you and using it to have more children of your own.

all the superficial reasons why people chase money and status are worthless in comparison to darwinian success.

>>16035534
>i understand not wanting to pay income tax or wanting to abolish the welfare state
I have no problem with neither income tax or the welfare state. If I knew that my money is going to end up in a family where they can't even feed themselves and will use that money to educate their children, I'm going to donate on top of paying taxes. But let's be real, it's going to end up in a family where they can't even feed themselves but instead of educating their children, they will gamble that money away or buy a shitton of cigarettes and alcohol.

>>16035545
>I have no problem with neither income tax or the welfare state.
and you call yourself smart? back to /x/ with you.

>>16035547
I accept your concession.

>>16035547
>and you call yourself smart?
I didn't call myself smart thoughbeitever.
>noooo income tax is le bad
How would you go about building roads then? Or educating children? Or let's say you got robbed and you have rock solid evidence, don't you want courts to give your money back?
>welfare state
As I said, nothing wrong with it as long as they don't buy votes from boomers (which they do sadly) and they help those who unironically use that money to better the lives of their families instead of gambling it away in hopes of becoming a billionaire.

>>16035555
Quads confirm btw
t. 132 iq dum-dum

>>16035555
i'm pretty agnostic when it comes to these economic arguments, there are pros and cons for both the american and the european way, but the key point of taking money away from family fathers (highest taxed) to redistribute it to single women has to be nerfed.
on some level i think a flat payment to every citizen (including children paid out to their parents) makes the most sense, even if it leads to higher inflation since it encourages couples to stick together.
pensions should be flat too, with people encouraged to save up in private pension funds while they're still earning, and alimony and child support should end as well.

>>16035555
>didn't call myself smart
mate, I was just shit posting. everything's fine.

>>16035563
$1500 per month per person
Mom + Dad + three kids = $7500, with the two adults deciding how to allocate the money
Mom + three kids = $6000 and mom gets to spend it however she wants.
Most women will take the latter deal. She can always create another child if she wants that extra $1500.

>>16035572
if you pay me $1500 bucks every month for nothing I'm going to live in Orgrimmar. ...

>>16035572
i think that's too high, it should just be a baseline that doesn't discourage people from working a job, and it should be lower for children as well, but the important part is that it enables people to decide to marry the person they really want and have children, without the fear of either party being in ruins if the marriage ends prematurely.

>>16035582
... or we shoot the poor and use the money on ourselves. ... might be less dysgenic.

>>16035571
I unironically don't think I'm smart. 132 iq means nothing when I've wasted too much time doing nothing and letting mental illnesses keep me down.
Plus when I was about to move out and start uni and could finally live my own life, covid came and regulations fucked everything over. Not that I blame covid regulations, I just blame myself for not trying harder before covid and ever since lockdowns ended.

>>16035584
once you enable that type of antisocial thinking it'll backfire.
the very rich already abuse the welfare system and mass migration to their own benefit in order to dump wages and pump consumption and real estate, at the cost of the middle class.

i'd rather have a social order that doesn't work parasitically even if there is some leeway for deadbeats.

>>16035587
don't worry so much and just do something productive, there's no perfect path and no safe choice.

>>16035587
calm down, man. everything's fine. you're a smart kid. you probably just don't realise what that means because people tend to naturally filter towards environments where they aren't special ... and for the most part that's good - and while your IQ won't shield you from being wrong or acting stupid it enables you to learn things faster... meaning that you actually have a lot more time than others.
now forget about the iq-bs because some random number is a horrible thing to fixate one. fixate on doing cool stuff and being successful at doing cool stuff - if you do that your life will be amazing. you've got this.

>>16035591
cmon man, it's not like stealing from the actual productive part of society isn't itself antisocial. we are already at the point where politicians have figured out they can steal from some to buy the votes of others - and I honestly believe the left just figured out that illegal immigration means more votes for them one or two decades down the line.
the only discussion we should be having right now is whether or not to translate 'afuera' when we're doing whatever is necessary to save what we were gifted.

>>16035582
Unless you've been in a coma for the past half century, you should know that women will always take the option of taking the money and running. If she's not ruined by divorce, she will take that option. You can't have it both ways with marriage being better but divorce not being worse.

>>16035593
>>16035599
Thanks anons.

>>16035611
there's a high divorce rate, but if you flip it around there's also still a significant percentage of people who make it work, especially smarter ones.

the current trend of people not getting married at all is more worrying imo.

>>16031563
Brother, I whish you ML posters would spend some time learning the basics of how AGI agents. "ML functions" are pure capabilities research for tech bro's who happily sell their souls for the market's ephemeral rewards but can't be bothered to actually go through an introductory textbook and learn the fundamentals.

>>16031686
It's nice to see someone who seems to understand EY's arguments representing them here. Let's try to understand the universe and ourselves dudes.

>>16031694
The nature of linear algebra is a reasonable thing to say, it is the linear relation of variables. The nature of non-linear algebra is more relevant, as it allows arbitrary comparisons between variables, rather than just linear relationships, but is much harder to understand, and so humanities theory on it is much less well developed than linear algebra. That is to say, the nature of non-linear algebra is less well understood than than the nature of linear algebra. Do you think optimization processes possess a nature more easy to understand than nonlinear algebra?
>planning is unsolved
We now have LLM passing the Turing test. Capabilities are increasing at an unprecedented rate. I agree planning does not seem well developed, but that only says we are not at AGI yet, it doesn't say anything about how far away it is. R Sutton, unofficial father of RL acknowledges the issue of planning and among the people working toward a solution:
https://arxiv.org/abs/2208.11173
Are you saying he is going down a research path you know to be a dead end? How did you get more experience with RL than R Suttion?

>>16031717
EY could use the exercise neh? I wish you'd take care of yourself big yud.

>>16032184

How'd you get into that kind of work?

I'm currently getting my cs/math undergrad and want to work on alignment / agent theory when I finish. I'm wondering if I should try for independent grants, or do a masters, or try to get hired somewhere. I'm not getting great grades in math classes (last semester had high 80s low 90s but this semester I took more math courses and I'm struggling to keep up, so I'm not sure if my love of theory out weights my non-prodigy status, or if I should focus on something easier like empirical interpretability.

Advice appreciated anon : )

>>16032870
It is a valid point, isn't it?
>>16033344
This is a really unfortunate point. It may be true or false, but it seems true to me. All that is required for good to triumph is for evil men to do nothing.

>>16034932
This is such a great question. Any good empirical study uses a statistical model to measure the significance of the finding (how unlikely the results are under the assumption that the hypothesis is false) and that statistical model is proven using math proofs. Why do we trust math proofs to tell us how to prove things empirically? I'm half way through my undergrad and I'm starting to become fluent in the language of proofs. The creation of definitions, the use of excluded middle to conclude things must either be one way or another... it seems both like the most carefully examined form of though about the world, and like a pile of buggy code... plz I don't want to become a philosopher and talk about semiotics... plz let me not be that flavour of schitzo..!

>>16030146
High IQ = pattern recognition, foresight, planning

Every time a smart person works hard, (((corporations))) buy their inventions for pennies on the dollar to make billions.
Every time you come up with new ideas, people will hate you for stirring the pot and making them read.
Every time you're identified as "the smart one," people assume you're a wizard and their standards for you grow impossibly high.

The only high IQ move is to play dumb, live solely for yourself, and to only help those who respect and listen to you.

>>16030432
My IQ is 145 but I have poor emotional control because I do drugs.

>>16035912
>Every time a smart person works hard, (((corporations))) buy their inventions for pennies on the dollar to make billions.
anon, that is simply not true.

>The only high IQ move is to play dumb, live solely for yourself, and to only help those who respect and listen to you.
no that's literally midwit thinking, anon. your best move is to maximise your success (according to your goals - whatever that may entail).

the existence of obstacles is no sufficient reason to give up on what you want from life - and even if it's only the satisfaction of your biological urges: you will find the only pussy in your mother's basement is you.

>>16035948
based.

>>16030146
what do you want me to do, take over the fucking planet?

>>16036001
yes. go. consume

>>16035879
I did a PhD in EE focusing on statistical estimation and stochastic optimization.

If you want to do real work on ML/AI/DL kind of work there's 4 areas that you basically can't learn too much of:
1) Probability Theory (ideally measure theoretic, but you'd be surprised how much research level work you can do with an "undergraduate" multivariable calc approach to the topic).
2) Control Theory and Linear Algebra (both abstract and computational)
3) Information Theory (information bounds on regression/classification errors, and joint mutual information/KL divergence methods are both very useful)
4) Optimization Theory (nonlinear programming, convex optimization, linear programming, etc.)

You definitely do not need to be a mathematical genius to do real work in ML. If anything, the main difficulty is not the rigor or mathematical difficulty, but getting familiar enough with the numerous different methods to see how they relate to each other.

As far as struggling to keep up in your math courses, remember this. If you already knew it, you wouldn't need to take the course. If it wasn't difficult, there'd be no point in taking it as a college course because you could just "boot camp" your way through it instead.

>>16035852
Thanks for recommending the Alberta Plan paper. I haven't read that one yet and really liked Sutton's textbook on RL, so I'm hopeful it's good.

I don't think you understand the first thing about optimization theory, and that's pretty obvious based on the way you talk about it. A major point within an proper nonlinear programming text is focusing on how to determine if an optimal solution exists, and if it exists determining whether any theoretical algorithm can converge to that optimal solution. It isn't at all a trivial assumption to go from "an agent could exist in a speculative sense that could solve this problem" to "a specific stochastic optimization process can produce optimal/near optimal solutions to this cost function." In fact, it's a gigantic leap of logic that can only come from not knowing how optimization functions in practice and how many pitfalls are encountered and need to be manually tuned/adapted to via human intervention to get anything useful.

The general planning problem is not just unsolved, we have barely scratched the surface of it. Pretty much everything out there either turns into Dijkstra's or RRT in some fashion. If your planning problem can't be easily turned into the TSP, A* or RRT, we are pretty much in the stone age with respect to actually solving it. Let alone automating non-parametric RL based agents which can solve those problems reliably. You're so far into sci-fi you might as well be confusing reality for Star Trek.

>>16030146
High IQ Anons like me are wasting away because of autism, agoraphobia, schizoid, sub 5, blah blah blah. Besides us fringe weirdos, most high iq people put their intelligence to good use. Regardless, there’s not a day I wouldn’t want to be me if it meant there was a chance I would be a retard.

>>16030338
The idea of lost potential is also one created to push these people to brink of their sanity. Sadists who want to see them fail, saying that much intelligence isn’t worth it because “look what it did to them” the worst thing you can do is coast on by in life to these idiots.

>>16036215
yeah it's got to be a conspiracy that you're wasting your life by gooning and shitposting the entire day instead of learning or doing something creative there's no way that such a life style would naturally be bothersome just due to free will and the ability to image the possibilities you are missing out on

>>16036163
Alberta plan is a pretty short paper outlining how Sutton's previous work relates to where he wants to go. I also really liked his textbook, and think Alberta plan might be a good way to start exploring his other work.

I don't think understanding planning at the theoretical level you describe is required for creating a program that can use planning in much the same way that understanding natural language well enough to manually program a language models is not required to create LLM. You seem to think only of the optimization process, not of the object being optimized, but an optimization process can be the object that results from an optimization process, and could be much more effective than our current theoretical understanding.

I'm not worried that stochastic gradient descent is going to become too powerful and take control, but artifacts created with stochastic gradient descent do things that we do not fully understand, and that does worry me.

>>16036151
Thanks. I already have an interest in all of those things which is a good sign, and I guess you're right. I'm glad to have school as a measuring stick to make sure I really am understanding the things I'm trying to learn.

>>16030341
Are you proud of this knowledge

>>16030365
ur just an aspie bro

>>16036219
You can add to this world without having to be a top scientist, businessman, whatever. It’s myopic to see everything through the lens of a normies idea of ambition when plenty of professors and geniuses throughout history with plenty of intelligence never became famous or notable in any major way. You don’t even know what I do. I feel I am adding sufficiently to the world. I have enough time to do what I want. No, I don’t goon or shitpost. I come here because there aren’t many people who match my idiosyncratic interest like you degenerates. I know I am doing good work, and I have enough to eat and to buy a few of my things, and that is enough. If the world takes notice of what I did, so be it. It costs me very little intellectually going forth as I am anyway.

>>16036243
now youre just blogposting

>>16036223
> but an optimization process can be the object that results from an optimization process, and could be much more effective than our current theoretical understanding.

I don't think that you have a lot to worry about in this regard. The thing that studying nonlinear programming/convex analysis would teach you is that approximate optimization (e.g., stochastic gradient descent, proximal methods with stochastic penalties, explore and exploit in RL, etc.) can not outperform non-approximate optimization methods in their limiting cases. This actually has a pretty important implication, and has a theorem named after it called the "no free lunch theorem."

If it isnt possible to be solved by a determinstic optimization process, a stochastic one like an ML based solver can't solve it either. On the average, stochastic optimization systems will perform no better than their determinstic counterparts given the same observations and cost function.

Where stochastic optimization systems shine is that they can get near optimal solutions very quickly. Where a Newton's method based determinstic descent algorithm is guaranteed to get to your stationary point in a countable number of steps (provided your first and second order conditions are satisfied) an SDE approach may not guarantee getting to that stationary point at all but can get to a near optimal solution much more efficiently.

What this essentially means for RL is that any system that cannot be in principle solved by an approximate dynamic programming approach will also not be able to be solved by RL. What RL can do is get you to a near optimal solution very quickly with a few ms of inference time, which might take an ADP method thousands of iterations. If approximate dynamic programming can't get an answer at all, there's no reason to believe RL could.

>>16036256
I don't think you have said anything at all about whether or not our modern optimization techniques may create a system capable of planning.

I assume such systems are complex, and so probably exist as a subset of a large space of possible configurations, which indicates that if we create it will be using stochastic methods. But evolution is a stochastic method which managed to create humanity, and humanity is clearly capable of planning, meagre though it may be. So I don't really understand why, when systems so vastly superior to the ones created by humans have been created in so many domains, you think the domain of planning could never fall to Sutton's bitter lesson.
http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html

As far as I understand you, I disagree with you, but thank you for responding with such depth of thought and experience.

>>16036269
I don't think that individual planning problems are beyond the scope of RL. There already are RL based simple robotic path planners that function fairly well (even if they take literal google robotics level resources to properly train and tune them). I've attached a really cool paper where they use RL to do local motion planning (based on DDPG as an RL framework if you're curious) and RL is clearly capable of at least local near optimal planning.

The trouble with RL for planning is essentially two things:

1) RL will always have a "local minima" problem because it fundamentally can only solve for local near optimal solutions. As a result, you pretty much will always need some non-learning based global planning method to put the RL "on rails" so it doesn't decide to fail early by driving into a wall/local minima. This is a fundamental problem that both value and policy based RL really have no answer to even on a theoretical level. There are some people trying to do hierarchical RL to fake long term global scope, but RL just fundamentally isn't suited for it.

2). RL needs a "clean" and "well behaved" reward structure to work. You may be able to use some kind of secondary optimization method to pick the weights but you as an engineer will need to tell it what it's attaching the weights to. I don't see RL addressing this problem any time soon because it's fundamentally one of problem formulation, not optimization.

For proper AGI the way Yudkowsky talks about it, you'd need an RL which could pick its own reward function and adjust it on the fly. Not just adjusting the weights, but actually redefining its own action space and reward function categorically. I don't see that happening any time soon unless we make some really fundamental breakthroughs on the mathematics side of the problem.

>>16035624
There's very little in life where a double digit, especially a 50%, failure rate is seen as a good thing or even an acceptable thing. Hand waving that away to try to sell it as still something good is societal degradation. Even in the subgroups touted as "a success" because their rate is lower, it's still deep into double digits. This is simply a case of lowered expectations that has gone so deep that anyone succeeding is seen as proof of population wide success. But given the way society claps like trained seals when a pet minority manages to brush their teeth, such low standards shouldn't be surprising. That doesn't mean anyone intelligence has to participate in the delusion.

>>16036332
>That doesn't mean anyone intelligence has to participate in the delusion.
What delusion? Even if your marriage ends in divorce it's a net good if it results in you having children.

>>16036543
Children of divorced parents get fucked up, both by the divorce process and by the post-divorce parenting situation. If you want to maximize breeding of consumption units, then yeah, anything that gets humans to procreate can be considered a successful outcome. If you want a society of people who weren't fucked up in their childhood, then divorce is a net negative when children are involved.

>>16036613
>Children of divorced parents
have the genes of parents who lack the intelligence, self-control and executive ability to choose a life partner.

It's like that piece of advice for male abusers: if you want an easy time, make sure your target is a divorcée, because she doesn't understand jack shit about people.