/sci/ - Science & Math

>>16026166
>try to do 1
holy shit its been a while since i imagined shit like that, watching too much anime made me move over to 2.
Oh btw, cant relate op, my imagination is incredible, contrary to yours

>>16026174
im a 4 on a good day
literal NPC tier :(

>>16026166
I laugh so hard at this image when I see it. When I think of an apple I see #1 but hanging on an apple tree with other apples in a full fledged landscape appropriate for the apple tree, sky, birds, sun, some insects flying around. Sometimes I imagine a beautiful woman under the trees reading a book as well. My mind actually manifests the light rays passing through the leaves of the trees that make it a really dope picture.

Like why do you people not imagine all the things that come along with an apple like the tree and the ground and the sun? It makes me laugh and understand how small and pathetic you all really are. Then people like >>16026178 can't even get to #1 and I get sad and depressed and understand why the world is a terrible place run by terrible people.

>>16026223
Cause they're retarded flourinated cattle.
The truth is that almost everyone can do what you just described when lucid dreaming.
But they can't do it with their conscious minds because they have been lobotomized.
That's what MKU was about, btw..

>>16026223
>and I get sad and depressed and understand why the world is a terrible place run by terrible people
So what do you do?

>>16026178
The NPC meme is about people who treat mainstream media talking heads, political figures, social media influencers, etc., as their "programmers"; as a non-player character would in a video game.

It's about people who don't think for themselves, and don't question what they're told to think. They might often cite "fact checkers" rather than checking facts for themselves to ferret-out the truth.

It has nothing to do with visually imagining an apple or anything else.

>>16026166
mirtazepine has an interesting side effect on this. It causes very vivid dreams but the effect also lasts when you're half asleep, I was sometimes able to imagine objects with my eyes closer and interact with them.

>>16026166
Can you count in your head without visalizing any numbers? If yes, can you visualize them while counting? If yes to the latter, you don't have aphantasia and are only pretending to be an npc.

>>16026223
Yeah but I bet you can't smell or taste the apple, bitch.

>>16026377
no its a total blank
i think only in abstract terms

>>16026166
visualization is a skill you need to practice to get better at it. just practice.

Visualizing is just remembering

Visualizing from imagination is just remembering stuff that never happened

>>16026233
I think people are lazy and domesticated. I've teased deep thoughts out of NPC normies before. Most never last long but the potential is there. I blame my autism personally. I've just always felt like an alien when I compare myself to "normal humans". I also have a fairly accurate eidetic and photographic memory. I can't remember whole books page for page and reread them to you years later but it's still pretty strong. I'm sure this helps. I also have vivid day dreams like the white doctor from Scrubs. All works together no doubt.

>>16026288
I tilt at windmills trying to save the world from itself. No luck yet fren.

>>16026412
When I have always imagined the Apple tree it was about 20-30 feet away in center frame. I'm normally about 6-8 feet downhill from the tree as well so it is slightly imposing. Green lush grass under it, a mature tree 30+ years old with a classic fat lollipop shape. The woman under the tree is always wearing white, sometimes a simple sundress, other times a long Victorian style dress. Not sure why. Normally she's on a blanket or some sort of welcoming picnic situation. My mind also fills in generic bushes on either side to flesh out the negative spaces. Now that I think there are often birds in the sky as well but I don't focus on the birds and bugs as much as the girl and the tree. I've never been close enough to taste or smell the tree. But when I read your post I did get a quick flash of apple taste and smell, it was odd but interesting. I never delve deeply into the thought to get all the senses but I won't lie and say I could without actually meditating and trying that way. But guided meditation is not what the OP image is asking us to do. I'd wager many NPCs could gain much more details with a few guided meditation sessions.

>>16026166
Anyone who claims they see pictures in their head needs immediate treatment for latent schizophrenia.

>>16026223

>>16026223
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpkc-NU1KA0

>>16026620
>I tilt at windmills trying to save the world from itself. No luck yet fren.
It's not their time nor your job. The path is shown to you when you are ready to see it and it will be shown to them when they are ready to see it, not before

>>16026166
>tfw I can only do 2 when the lights are off
am I low IQ?

>>16026166
No, realistically it's because you're terrible at mathematics and you don't need to visualize realistic apples to be good at that.

I can do 1 for a short while before my brain gets flooded with incredibly vivid porn scenes.

>>16026545
Did you go to school? Children learn to count and recognize numerals at the same time.

>>16026648
What do you "see" when you remember things?

>>16026700
Living the dream

>>16026800
Why would I 'see' with something other than my eyes?

>>16026808
Because memories are highly visual.
If I ask you to remember the face of your loved one, your memory has to access visual information that is no longer coming from your eyes.

>>16026814
How is recognizing someone 'visual' unless they're right in front of you? Seek immediate treatment, nothing you said makes any sense whatsoever.

>>16026816
Let me break it down.

>I show you a picture of a QT girl
>Your eyes see it
>Your brain takes the visual input and creates a memory of the picture.
>I take the picture away
>Ask you to remember the picture
>Your brain has to recall the information in the memory, and that memory was created from visual input
>Best way to parse a visual input is through visualization.

You follow me?

>>16026824
>Your brain has to recall the information in the memory, and that memory was created from visual input
>Best way to parse a visual input is through visualization.
You cannot see without your eyes unless you are hallucinating. If you are admitting you are hallucinating, you are undergoing a psychotic episode and need to seek immediate treatment.

>>16026833
Seen and visualizing are not the same thing, but they share commonalities

>>16026839
You are making a distinction without a difference. You can only see with your eyes, just like you can only hear with your ears. Your brain cannot produce images or sounds at will, as it can only react to stimuli. There have been multiple neurological studies on this. The only alternative is when it misinterprets random firings of neurons as stimuli, i.e. hallucinations.

If you think you can "visualize" memories, you are suffering from schizophrenia.

>>16026848
>You are making a distinction without a difference.
But you yourself are starting the difference. Receiving a stimulus is different from remembering a stimulus.

>>16026868
A stimulus cannot exist without being present. Seek help. You are doing nothing but repeating the usual Synesthesia bullshit about "tasting colors" or "seeing music". This is mental illness, not a normal function of the brain. If there is no apple in front of you, you cannot see an apple. If you claim to see an apple when there is no apple, you need to be on medication.

>>16026871
>A stimulus cannot exist without being present
Correct, but the memory of a stimulus can

>>16026876
Disproven by neurological studies. Go to >>>/his/ if you want to talk bullshit philosophy and other mental illnesses, but otherwise you need lithium.

>>16026888
Are you trying to imply that nobody remembers what you see?

>>16026166
>>16026178
Just meditate a lot, I went from 5 to 1 in about a year.

>>16026899
Claiming that you "see" memories is total nonsense.

>>16026223
Yeah and these people are only thinking about apples 24/7?! I spend more time thinking about quantum mechanics and philosophy. The world is doomed and I’m smarter than everyone. And my penis is huge.

>>16027010
Why not? A memory is basically reliving past stimulus. Your brain is interpreting the "imprint" the stimulus left.

>>16027019
You cannot relive past events. Present events are merely familiar to you by comparison. Help exists. Seek a psychologist.

>>16027020
i can make loli porn in my mind cry about it

>>16027019
based reliver

>>16027020
I'm genuinely curious.
How do YOU experience memories? How would you describe your personal experience?

>>16027020
>You cannot relive past events.
In the literal sense that you can't time travel. But memories of past events do exist, and you can experience a modicum of the past through them.

Not sure where you're going here

>>16026674
>It's not their time nor your job.
Bodhisattva would disagree and the clear reference to Don Quixote I thought would convey I know it's a fool's errand but can't stop myself from trying anyway.

Plus what else am I going to do all day? I don't have friends or play video games.

>>16027053

>>16027041
>How do YOU experience memories? How would you describe your personal experience?
Why are you acting like this is some subjective thing? You know exactly what it is like to have memories, don't be retarded because it is "funny".

>>16027053
>Plus what else am I going to do all day?
You can join my discord and learn to trade currency futures

>>16027093
Why are you deflecting?

>>16026620
I've had maladaptive daydreaming pretty much ever since I was a kid, so visualizing this image you painted came across pretty naturally. Was honestly surprised at the amount of people not able to get 1, I'd assume its just a mix of different factors (IQ, genetics, enviroment, etc). I'd sometimes daydream for hours at a day like it was an addiction so I can relate with this a lot.

I don’t think most people realize that #1 is quite literally suppose to be being able to keep an image of an apple in your mind close to exacting detail without losing it, probably being able to zoom in and other shit. Most of you cannot do that. It’s not indicative of intelligence, at least within a reasonable range, but the most successful scientists lauded as geniuses probably have it since it’s probably necessary to push the envelope that one tiny bit.

What is it when your brain imagines random shit in vivid detail, but you can't really control what it imagines?

Just tried visualizing an apple, but I got a skeleton in a pinstripe suit.

Then the skeleton started dancing dumb zoomers dances

>>16026166
aphantasia meme is legit, but monologue meme was revenge of the NPCs.
non-NPCs CAN run a slow monologue, but it's much more efficient to think at a visual (hence non-aphantasia) or more abstract level.
this isn't up for debate. don't talk to me, NPCs.

>>16027208
Yeah, the plodding monologue shit is what you'd expect from someone with aphantasia, desu.
"OKAY, SO AN APPLE. WELL, HM, I'MA SAY IT'S A RED APPLE. AND WHAT ELSE? OH, I GUESS IT'S..."

>>16027103
Deflecting what? I already fucking told you. You perceive the present, and find similarities with your memories. You don't time travel flashback like it's a movie. There's your answer. We all have a good "haha gottem" laugh? Now fuck off.

>>16026166
I'm definitely a 1. When I listen to audiobooks when driving, chilling etc. or when I'm actually reading on the balcony. If the writing is good it's like a movie going on in my head. I can fully visualize the things happening. When I have dreams they are often vivid. When I think about memories they are colorful and often represent the real place, confirmed by visiting it years later when there again. I also picture scenarios that haven't happened and are just imagination.
I always thought everyone is able to do it until I found out that this is not the case years ago when my gf told me audiobooks are boring. I asked her if it's not like a movie in her head visualizing the spoken work. She told me no she can't or does not do that but rather just listens what the reader is telling.

>>16027263
I just want to add a thing I thought about right now. Maybe people being a 1 are the minority? That is why they constantly need stimulation by looking at their screen on a smartphone for example. It often seen in environments that are boring, like in the waiting room of a doctor. I can sit there the entire time without looking at my phone daydreaming. Meanwhile most people sit down and start browsing Instagram, facebook etc.
I always found it a bit odd but it makes sense seeing it from that perspective. On the other hand most people might find it weird that I sit there not checking my phone at most responding to notifications.

found out I have this shit a month ago.

been practising for 3 weeks now. I can get to the point:
>I see clear but dim images by the end of the day
>ive had one moment of full clear as sight memory of a road in a beautiful spring day
>if lucky I can stream and sort of steer the theme of the images
>heard random noises sometimes

i dont know how i went this long not knowing people see shit in their mind. I really want to be able to just close my eyes and see the apple clearly soon.

Why does the bot spam this shit?

>>16026223
This post is particularly funny because it implies anon has schizophrenia or some other condition that leads to disordered thought.

>>16026319
>I'm the protagonist of reality!
>My superior googling skills make me immune to manipulation
>Oh look Christianmoms dot org wrote a blog post that proves me right, take that """"""fact"""""" checkers, if only you ever went to the second page of google
I guess "npc" doesn't rightfully apply but you're not exactly any smarter

>>16026620
>I tilt at windmills trying to save the world from itself
So you are another useless midwit neet, got it. All signs point to you being a terminal case of Dunning-Kruger so I wouldn't be surprised if you also have a twisted evaluation of your own sensory experience

>>16027169
monkey mind

>>16027375
stfu NPD schizo. I hadnt seen anyone on this board saying really stupid shit and acting psychotic trying to ruin every thread in a long time and was hoping you offed yourself

As a child I had an imagination of 1 and could hallucinate vividly when reading. All that was lost and now I am maybe a 3. How can I get back? Is it the caffeine? Or the depression?

>>16027169

>>16027841
It’s like a slow unraveling. The more you practice, the better. Meditation helps. David Lynch is essentially doing that when he meditates and improves that part of his brain.

>>16026666
> Eyes to see and ears to hear
It's another episode of: new age faggot appropriates scripture to spread their satanic bullshit.

>>16028023
>>16026666 <--- also: fitting digits

>>16028023
>>16028023
it's another episode of ignorant fuckwit trying to assert their ignorance over people smarter than them by multiple orders of magnitude. silence yourself when adults are speaking simpleton

>>16028023
it's always funny to me when jew worshiping halfwits call something 1000's of years older than their jew worshiping cult "new" (from which their simpleton cult stole it's only relevant and insightful knowledge). confederacy of dunces you lot are

>>16026166
ive seen ops image so i can just remember and visualise that...
now what
can also visualise buying an apple in real life, a cartoon apple from tom and jerry in colour, in black and white, an outline image of an apple from a game where you have to fill in the colours, and the purpose of an apple
am i not understanding the image?
because i can replace the apple with a car, a brick...

>>16026166
what the fuck?
no way people actually cant imagine an apple
i can make an entire apple orchard in my head
i refuse to believe this post source

>>16028294

You tell us bot

>>16026848
If you had a functioning brain you would know you don't see hallucinations with your eyes, its very distinct. It's hard to explain to you, like it would be hard to explain color to a blind man

>>16026166
oh good, another reason to give up and remain docile
thanks, real human

>>16027275
I am a 1 and addicted to tech, if my phone has no battery I can actually go the whole bus ride without it and daydream, but if it has battery I am instantly on it the whole time.
It's just an addiction like any other

>>16027230
holy autism, batman.

ITT anons who can't rotate a cube in 3 dimensions in their head angry and confused that people's brains are different.

There's an anon ITT literally calling people "schizos" for having an imagination.

>>16028985
that is because he is an actual NPD schizo NPC

>>16028985
that is literally the only thing he ever posts here, calling people schizo for stating obvious and rational insights

>>16026166
this seriously doesn't matter, i don't know why people are still hung up on it.
it has no correlation with anything practical the way IQ does.

>>16029007
What if there is a relation between OP pic and IQ though

>>16027230
>You don't time travel flashback like it's a movie.

Yes, that's actually exactly how people who don't have aphantasia experience memory. Like, you really need to understand that people here aren't joking and are genuinely curious what it's like to have 'memory' that's limited to comparing concepts of what occurred to your current situation, as opposed to having a fully imaginative experience of the sensations you experienced where you do re-experience what you saw, heard and felt, but in a less vivid way compared to the actual original experience. Like, I can replay a symphony in my head and pick out actual melodies and instruments that I wasn't aware of what I first heard the music, or recreate mental movies of when I took a trip somewhere.

And I call bullshit on your studies. There are plenty of studies showing that people are capable of mentally rotating objects via visualization and who perform better on rotation puzzle tests than people who can't do this.

>>16029037
i dont know man. it might be an interesting thing to study, but it seems like an arbitrary trait to worry about on a personal level.
visualization is not required for thinking. in some cases it might be useful, in others it might slow the process down. it's not objectively good or bad.

>>16029063
You don't know if it's good or bad.
Clearly something is missing from the brains that can't, what if other things are missing too? How do you know it has no practical uses if it hasn't been studied?

>>16029067
no, NOT clearly something is missing.
if i write some pointless piece of software, i can't just say "clearly something is missing from all the computers which don't have this piece of software".
what im saying is you could make that argument about any mental ability that one person develops, whether it's useful or pointless or good or bad.

i didn't say it has no practical uses, though i realize what i said was ambiguous. i meant it doesn't have nearly as much practical value as IQ does.

>>16029063
>it seems like an arbitrary trait to worry about on a personal level.

If it DOES affect performance, in that certain tasks are vastly easier in this modality of thought when it can be freely used, then surely that is something you'd want to take into account, at least in the sense of a possible explanation of why you might find certain things easier or harder compared to others.

>>16029077
>i meant it doesn't have nearly as much practical value as IQ does.
The value of IQ is that it seems to statistically predict 'fixed', in the sense of not very trainable, aspects of intelligence that generalize quite well. Just because it is an excellent predictor of general performance in this way, doesn't mean that differences in imaginative ability and its use couldn't be significant in their own ways.

>>16029077
>i can't just say "clearly something is missing from all the computers which don't have this piece of software".
Yes you can, that useless software is clearly missing from the pc. This is an objective, inarguable statement. You can claim it is useless if you want but it's obviously missing.
>i meant it doesn't have nearly as much practical value as IQ does.
You don't know that, we don't even know if they are related.

>>16029086
>If it DOES affect performance, in that certain tasks are vastly easier in this modality of thought when it can be freely used, then surely that is something you'd want to take into account, at least in the sense of a possible explanation of why you might find certain things easier or harder compared to others.
if a person's environment makes specific tasks important, it will be intuitively obvious whether those tasks would be made much easier by visualization. any other tasks are irrelevant.
it's not something people should dedicate conscious thought towards. if they need to spend time figuring out whether visualization would make things easier for them, it probably wouldn't.

>>16029077
>The value of IQ is that it seems to statistically predict 'fixed', in the sense of not very trainable, aspects of intelligence that generalize quite well. Just because it is an excellent predictor of general performance in this way, doesn't mean that differences in imaginative ability and its use couldn't be significant in their own ways.
yeah that's true. i think general performance is all that should be worried about.

i guess if it were studied further, techniques could be developed to allow visualization to be used in very general ways, but that would take a ton of trial & error. if/until those techniques are developed, it wouldn't be worth the effort trying to develop this ability, which might be hard to develop very much at a late age, and then to figure out how to apply it in ways which aren't immediately obvious.

>>16029088
>Yes you can, that useless software is clearly missing from the pc. This is an objective, inarguable statement. You can claim it is useless if you want but it's obviously missing.
okay, that's true descriptively, but it seems like a meaningless statement. when you say "missing", it could easily be interpreted as prescriptive; "this ought to be a part of that"

>You don't know that, we don't even know if they are related.
it would be obvious if they were, there are incentive structures (social, economic, evolutionary) which identify & exploit important abilities. these tend to miss abilities which are useful in very specialized ways, but that's because specialized tasks are not as valuable because they are rarely encountered/required

>>16027375
kek true. never knew humblebragging faggots were praised here, ironically way more indicative of niggercattle behavior than what they mock.

>>16029156
it looks like normal bragging
to me, "humblebragging" is more subtle and manipulative, and tends to be done by very feminine people

i go to sleep every night by pre-dreaming entire worlds. how can you not even see a fucking apple?

>>16026223
The point is to imagine one isolated apple, preferably mentally placed in your surroundings without closing your eyes; what you're doing is coming up with random scenes with an apple in them, which any retard can do

you don't see anything, you direct your thoughts to the recesses of your brain to convince yourself you see something. it's pure self deception

>>16029172
Yeah, and?
>Deception
Not deception, you are aware at all times it's just a simulation you are running in your brain.

>>16027208
The monologue mental chatter shit was an NPC coping session.
Every tradition of advanced mental training values strong visualization abilities AND the ability to remove "monkey mind" chatter.
Are there people who actually think "I need to go to the store today" at a speaking pace as opposed to a split-second realization? That would suck.

>>16026166
no its a meme

>>16029057
>And I call bullshit on your studies
Okay, where's your study proving mental time travel? Don't have one? Fuck off.

>>16026166
Scientists have higher rates of aphantasia. Shocking that no one has mentioned this.

>>16029966
I call bullshit

>>16026166
I participated in a survey of a couple thousand people and was placed at the very top for visualization / projection. What I have is "prophantasia" -- I can place objects in the real world and I can make them interact with real objects, etc.
I can also remember entire songs and play them back in my head. I probably have my entire library memorized (2.5k+ songs). I can also replay physical sensations and I often simulate people inside my head.
I do have a "voice" but I also have a "silent" component that's used everywhere and also a visual-only mode of thinking.
Oh, I also have a stellar memory.
Me on the right btw

>>16026166
Kek get fucked

>>16026166
I will never believe aphantasia is a thing. That's would be like saying lobotomies are naturally-occuring and some people have a portion of their brain missing. Retards saying they are aphantasiac are too dumb to comprehend the question or have low self-esteem and willingly try to not imagine anything to think they're aphantasiacs.

>>16026166
I can visualize 1 but the brain fog makes it a pain, i fucking hate thinking, might be because my lifestyle is shit

>>16031553
Stop watching Schreck in your head and go to bed.

>>16026871
>t. 5 70 iq mushy pea brain

>>16033091
Fun fact: I have never seen Shrek.
Fun fact: I was instead watching Bee Movie

>>16029667
You're shitting on people for thinking at speaking pace, but you don't really gain anything for 'split-second realization'. You don't even gain any efficiency either, because you can start the process of "going to store to buy milk" as soon as you start subvocalizing it.

I imagine things in excruciating detail despite using my visual cortex for other things.
I can be playing a video game with all sorts of bing bing wahoo and explosions and elemental colors and fire and numbers popping all over the screen while alien heads burst, and I'm being shot by everything, and have some movie or StableDiffusion up on the other screen, and meanwhile in my head I'm coming up with two or three different detailed scenes of women of various appearance and proportions with beauty marks and all, their own backgrounds whether a furnished interior or just a really nice mountaintop view on a clear day, and they're like moving around doing acrobatics while their nipples perk up gradually and peeing mid-flip and stuff and in my mind each of them has either 1 or 2 "cameras" doing crazy weird/impossible maneuvers around them as they do it, and their movement makes sense and even the physics and gravity of the pee works with how it falls and splashes and runs down their legs and what part of them or the ground gets wet, even the splatter patterns on floors.

I'm not really successful in any way and don't like to manipulate or hurt other people but also don't like being around them.
So I'm not sure this actually has anything at all to do with intelligence, seems like more a matter of familiarity and mental practice, because I wasn't allowed to play video games or watch much tv as a kid so I mostly imagined things

Pic unrelated.

>>16033315
>try to speak at thinking pace, mumble and trip over tongue like an autistic schizo and no one wants to listen anyways
>try to speak at normal speaking pace and no one can pay attention long enough to get the actual point
>simplify it down, people mystified "how did you get to y based on x" then don't pay attention when you explain it to them
Yeah, it's fucking useless. Ooh I read books as a kid wowie I must be a god surely my diligence will be rewarded socially.
Can't be bitter though, don't value social status.

>>16026166
When someone claims they have aphantasia, why is the response from people always "do you dream?" Like when I'm dreaming I actually, literally see and experience everything. Imagination is just imagination - an image in the brain. It's a sort of ghost of an image/vision, but nothing like a dream, not even close. A dream is far, far more real. Or maybe I have near-aphantasia, who tf knows.

>>16033366
I don't have aphantasia at all but often I dream "verbally" as I can describe a sequence of events that happened in my dream but I barely have a visual image of that dream

>>16033366
I dont get how you people are possible. I can make any image in my head, move it around, change its color, make whole scenes of people talking and doing things.

I can't fucking conjure images mentally in my head. But it seems like I can do logic operations quickly in my head like a console.

I have also found I can conjure sounds quite vividly and play them back in altered forms and effects like reverb/backwards/etc.

>>16033396
You have completely misunderstood. I can do all of those things without issue. A dream is fundamentally different and stronger than that. If you imagined the way I dream you'd kill yourself trying to drive.

>>16033396
this >>16033416
If your imagination was as vivid as reality you would either
a) lucid dream 100% of the time. If you were capable of this, you would have mentioned this.
b) be insane because you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between dream and reality.

You're posting on 4chan so it's probably not b.

>>16033428
I lucid dream sometimes. Not all the time. I had one where i was dressed as a 50s detective in an empty barn looking at cow shit. All i could do was walk around but when i walked out the barn door i woke up.
>>16033416
When you said ghost of an image i thought you meant you were in the middle of the chart.

>>16026998
Also you need to subvocalize and then use that subvocalization to create connections between emotions and sensations(same shit) which will further encode memories. Eventually this will give you pseudo synesthesia

>>16033396
>people
they aren't people sir, those are NPCs. Most are just lying for (you)s, of course, and some are tards who don't understand the question, but one who cannot imagine would naturally be incapable of planning. They could not consider. They could not map. They could not think. p-zombies.
>>16033428
Not him, but I also lucid dream frequently. It's incredible, and you can train yourself to do it more, and to have dreams more often as well. There's a million books on the topic. I place low value on lucid dreaming and so would you, as it isn't real. Time is distorted anyways, and you don't ever fully control waking up, so a lucid dream will feel like hours, take minutes, and end just when you were getting to the good part.