/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15980113
Because you touch yourself at night.

>>15980113

The Stonecutters have inside men who engineer them poorly on purpose.

>>15980113
LMAO, muh gLoBAl wArMInG!

>>15980113
They do, the story you posted is about dead chargers. And if you had read the comments, you would've seen that the very same chargers still work in Canada at 30° lower. So it's not a fundamental issue, but most likely neglected maintenance.
But why am I even writing this? Either you're illiterate or dishonest anyway.

>>15980116
because his mom drinks battery accid if its cold.

>>15980113
Chuds are too low IQ to follow instructions.

>>15980127
no it isn't, its about how electric cars don't work in cold weather

>>15980301
>For many drivers, it was too late. Their cars died during the long wait, and they had to leave their vehicles stranded and wait for the stations to get up and running again.
Nice try, Mr. oil shill. And kudos for making me defend Tesla. Fuck them, but fuck liars even more.

>>15980127
Why do you schizos get so mad when anyone even slighly criticizes your lord and savior Elon Musk?? Pointing out his long history of a lies, misrepresentation, overblown claims, and predictions that never come true is not "illiterate" or "dishonest".

>>15980245
This. Your average Tesla driver is a total fucking retard, and most Tesla drivers don't even care about the environment - in fact, a lot of them are right wingers, which is why they support Musk in the first place - they just bought the stupid car because they're obsessed with Elon Musk.

>>15980330
See my other comment here: >>15980319
Musk is an asshole and on a technical level, Tesla made a lot of dumb decisions. I despise the company, its owner and the product. But that doesn't mean that I become a free propagandist against them and spread lies to make them look worse than they are.

And also, I don't fully see why you think that this is defending Musk or the company. After all, it's their shitty chargers that broke. I guess I'm rather defending the physics and pointing out that both the cars and the chargers work in even colder locations, if they are maintained well. Something the garbage company has failed to do in Chicago. Don't be a agenda-driven retard that blows this out of proportion.

>>15980245
>run low on battery
>go to charging station
>there's a queue
>wait in your car
>it's cold, better crank up the heat
>wtf why is my battery dead?

Cold weather causes batteries to discharge. Even your ICE car's battery will discharge in cold temps if you leave it for too long.

>>15980363
>Cold weather causes batteries to discharge
How does the cold make electrons go from one side of the battery to the other side?

>>15980389
I dunno man, all I know is that my car battery will go dead if I leave it outside for a few days in the cold without driving it.

>>15980319
everything is about politics for you, you have no interest in truth.

>>15980113
>>15980526

>dishonest, blatantly politically-charged thread criticizing electric vehicles
>*crickets*
>someone questions Big Oil
>OY VEY!!! SHUT IT DOWN!!!

>>15980526
>implying you have an interest in the truth

>>15980349
>dont plan for -40 degree weather
>dont charge fully before going in the extreme temp
>blame everyone else but yourself

>>15980113
that particular video ends by briefly mentioning "ah yes, for it to work owners must activate the battery pre-condition function" or some shit like that. I think it's some sort of self-heating thing so charging can start.
now, not sure if they were all too retarded to do it and didn't, or they tried and it still didn't work, that is not clear

That last driver they interviewed was saying, "It's less about the cars and more the infrastructure." Dunno what he's basing that on, though, since FOX32 didn't ask.

>>15980113
They work, but they work 30% less, plus whatever extra you spend on heating the interior and the battery while the car is stopped.

>>15980113
they'll do much better when the global warming
https://www.bitchute.com/video/8AHkAJrpAxd4/

>>15980434
Wow, very /sci/ of you.

Chicago news report about how EVs are useless in cold weather. https://files.catbox.moe/p1pjm5.mp4
Doesn't mention that in hot weather using the AC also makes the batteries drain super fast.

>>15980389
Old fashioned lead acid batteries have to get really really cold to freeze if they are fully charged, but if their charge is low they will freeze at much higher temps.
With lithium batteries, if it gets really cold you get lithium plating that fucks up the battery on the inside. Most battery packs have a temp sensor and won't charge if it's too cold to prevent damage. That's why the guy in the article says they have to be preheated before charging.

If you're ever out in temps we'll below freezing, keep your phone warm inside your pocket to keep it from dying.

>>15980929
I know that my old phone died in the cold, but as soon as I went back inside, it turned on, still showing 90% battery. Since it used to turn off under load, I suspected that the internal resistance increases when cold and then the phone essentially browns out. Not that the cold magically moved charges inside the battery and then it's drained.

>>15980113

>>15981108
petrolheads btfo!

>>15980345
>sound reason, on my /sci/?
>it's more likely than you think

>>15981092
It might have shut itself off for safety or something.
My old S7 I took out to snap a few photos after it snowed one time, about 0F with a breeze, and it died within a minute. Had to fully recharge it from 0% when I got back in.

>>15980882
good video

>>15980113
How come gas cars don't work without Saudi Arabia?

>>15981813
They work find without Saudi Arabia. Until a little bit over 3 years ago America was exporting gasoline because domestic production was greater than demand.

>>15981108
>known that car batteries of all kinds break down in cold weather
>"Well look, here are some petrol stations not working, that'll show you petrol chuds!"
You don't even own a car, do you?

>>15982672
The US reached record high oil production last October.

>>15982680
OP's post is about some charging stations breaking down, so some gas station breaking down is the exact same thing.

all modes of transportation have inherent advantages and disadvantages that should be considered in a wholistic way when preparing to commute or travel.

>>15982725
Find a flaw in pic related. Even one (other than the whole "it murders you and replaces you with a copy" thing).

>>15981113
Petrol doesn't freeze until -60c/-76f
Diesel on the other hand, being a longer-chain hydrocarbon, freezes at much higher temperatures of -10c/15f.
Therefore, petrolheads aren't btfo, just dieselchuds.

>>15983270
you still suck dick if your 12V battery goes to shit

>>15983270
The diesel sold in Switzerland is guaranteed to work down to -22°C. Most countries sell the same in winter, while in summer they sell some shit that freezes at -10°C.

>>15983241

>>15982725
no they don't EVs have no advantage in any category, they are worse in every way

>>15982708
You don't seem to understand the problem.
>petrol cars can be jumpstarted when their battery dies
>electric cars are just fucked

>>15984713
You might notice that the role of the battery is very different in an EV and an ICE.

>>15983241
use it for cargo and no one will care about the ethics

>>15984711
with gas cars you have to make arab countries relevant

>>15984711
that's not reasonable anon, makes you look retarded.

>>15985250
The US has the best cargo rail freight system in the world and lefties still whine that it's not used to transport more people. Don't think they wouldn't whine the same about transporter beams.

>>15980363
In alaska you have to warm the battery up before starting the car

>>15980113
>How come electric cars don't work in cold weather?
How strange. Around here people get their EV to work when it is -25C. Did you forget to warm your batteries? Just remember to read the user manual.

>>15980121
>what's an average

>>15985361
Not strange at all.
>54% of adults have a literacy below sixth-grade level.
>21% of Americans 18 and older are illiterate in 2022.

>>15985369
yup as usual with many problems in the world, it's a uniquely american one and then when they think it's a problem that everyone has too they get mercilessly laughed at

>>15985307
try to go one thread without whining about leftists

>>15985535
Impossible challenge

>>15982725
I'll kill you

>>15980546
Sounds like the solution is to not ever buy electric trash lmao

>>15985369
those stats aren't all that bad when you remove negroes from the data set

>>15985529
theres no such thing as leftists, the distinction is between right and wrong, not right and left, but people don't like to label themselves as wrong so they use "left" instead.

>>15983270
>Petrol doesn't freeze until -60c/-76f
gasoline all has a substantial ethanol fraction, so it probably freezes lower than you stated

>>15989679
Ethanol has a freezing point of -114C

>>15980113
The electrons in the battery freeze and settle in the bottom of the battery case, beyond the reach of the electrodes.

>>15989773
So what? Salt has a freezing point of 800°C. Adding it to water, it lowers the freezing point of water from 0°C to -20°C

>>15980749
>personal experience doesn't exist
this is your brain on /sci/ence

>>15990390
It doesn't. Human consciousness is an illusion, as is free will.

Scyence did not solve the battery problem

>>15980113
This is another Tony Heller repost from the same day as the Heller blog post.
https://realclimate.science/2024/01/16/dead-teslas/

>>15985331
No you don't
>>15983270
There is -40C diesel in my tank. Git gud. Literally just a non issue.
>>15980363
Bullshit. Even after days the old battery can glow the glow plugs and start the engine. If it does not, time to replace. Replace cost: $50. Ev batt. cost: $50000

>>15990470
>Replace cost: $50. Ev batt. cost: $50000
So just use the $50 battery and save $49950. Are you stupid?

>>15985362
>Africa is warming faster than poles are cooling
>THE WORLD IS WARMING GUYS
>IT'S ALL GONNA BE IN A DESERT IN 50 YEARS

>>15990467
How come a climate scientist commend himself with car technology?

>>15990467
that doesn't change the fact that electric cars are garbage tier technology that don't work in cold weather. that doesn't stop being true just because
tony heller triggers you

>>15991621
But this post only shows that the chargers failed.

>>15982725
So what you are saying is we should switch to ammonia engines?

>>15990478
The poles are warming, why do think the jet stream has been getting weaker due to the temperature difference shrinking between the polar and equatorial regions?

If it is due to having a low state of change before a cold spell then it is a learn to drive issue. If it is the same shit as with ICE cars during winter, that a shit 12V battery can't deliver enough juice then that's annoying. In EVs the 12V needs to supply power to the contactors for the main battery for it to start.
You'd think that the car could warn you that your battery is so busted that if it gets cold you're gonna have a problem, but no, can't even get basic voltage readings without some external tools in modern cars.

>>15990479
>Tony Heller
>climate scientist
Lol no

>>15992363
Tony really seems to trigger you pretty hard

>>15980147
What does she drink when it's hot?

>>15980113
>Tesla
lol

>>15993834
its amazing how much money musk made tricking idiots into buying fancy golf carts

>>15994633
He cashed in on the global warming scam bigger than anyone. All while launching massive rockets with enormous carbon footprints

>>15980113
those cars are heavy af because of the battery so they handle terribly on snow and ice, they can't stop, they slide out of control way too easily, they're unsafe enough as it is on dry pavement for the same reason, but the problem is way worse on snow

>>15996156
The ridiculous weight of EVs not only makes them unsafe, it also makes them extremely energy inefficient.

>>15996156
So trucks are unsafe? Got it.

>>15997447
And yet they're still more energy efficient than any ICE. Incredible.

>>15997447
They would be energy inefficient if they were competing against cars that were both lighter and more energy efficient. But they aren't.
They do cause more road wear because it scales to the fourth power of the axle load, but if you're gonna tax that externality then pickups and such are on the firing line too.

>>15985369
I don't think it is illiteracy anon.
People spend a fuck ton on these cars and expect it to just work. When something happens they just go to the tesla dealership and let them deal with it.

Kind of like people who use windows instead of linux, they do not give a fuck about anything besides it doing its job. It just needs to work from the second they press the power button.

>>15980113
They work but not as well. They don't stayed charged as long for the same reason your phone discharges faster at colder temperatures. The battery shrinks and therefore becomes more dense due to the cold so it can't hold as much energy.

>>15997578
>But they aren't.
yes they are

>>15998474
No, they're not. Name any ICE vehicle that gets more distance/kWh than any EV in the same class.

Protip: you can't.

>>15980118
>who controls the charging grounds
>who keeps the infrastructure down
>we do
>we doooo

>>15985369
California is the lowest IQ state all because of immigration
>import the 3rd world, become the 3rd world

In 8th grade my class spent a week in yellowstone at some old bison ranching cabins. I remember I left my DS out in a car overnight, and the next morning I flicked it on to play pokemon emerald. Whenever I moved my character around on screen, it caused the screen to leave a snail trail behind.
When we got back I asked my science teacher and he explained a lot about temperature and conductivity. I realize now it was probably more the actual LCD, but it's still a neat memory of mine

>>15999056
California has the highest GDP and one of the highest GDP per capita. Why are literal low-IQ third-worlders outperforming you?

>>15997447
>it also makes them extremely energy inefficient.
Compared to an ICE that's about 10-15% efficient?

>>15999142
lmao. Pseuds always try to point to GDP while ignoring cultural demise, destruction of society, etc. But muh literature says GDP important! Same sources that have been lying about inflation for decades and tell you central banking is good.

>>15999142
California's GDP is inflated due to tech boom.
a 300k salary in California is like 100k elsewhere in the US that isn't NYC.

>>15985369
>21% of Americans 18 and older are illiterate in 2022.
Interesting, very interesting. Could you break this down by race for me?

>>15999142
Is this adjusted for cost of living?

>>15985307
>US has the best cargo rail freight system
Not a high bar considering all the countries capable of outperforming burgers focus on passengers

>>15999269
You cannot fathom how much you coping for not having a car makes you look like a punk bitch

>>15980113
Why don't lesbian women's cars work in cold weather?
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1705523214946791.webm

>>15999228
You know that even if you deduct 13% you'll end up with a significant portion of white trash

>>15999258
Midwit counter. This is GDP, not salary. They have a successful economy.

>>15999309
>midwit counter
Good of you to preface your post I guess
You are wrong, and retarded. I don't know how you found your way to /sci/ but you probably should leave

>>15999285
cute!

>>15999309
>the cost of goods in an economy isn't relevant to discussing how successful said economy is
You wanna run that by us again there champ?

>>15999307
Some, yes. Still have to factor in the spics, though.

>>15999323
And useless

>>15999307
calling people "white trash" is racist, bigot

>>16000750
They are undeniably white and they are undeniably trash. Facts don't care about your feelings.

>>15980882
>AC makes the battery drain super fast
Not nearly on the level as using the heater.
A car AC is usually ~15000BTU and working the math backward into watts and then CoP factor, car AC should be in the range of ~1400-1800 watts. Factor then that ACs usually cycle at a 50% duty rate and you get less than 1KwH per hour of drain.
This works out to between 3 and 5 miles of range for most EVs, so it's there but isn't much in the scheme of things.

The heater on the other hand is between 5 and 8Kw, but I'm not bothering to factor pre-heat conditions, pre heating the cabin itself in winter, etc.
I did so in a recent /o/ thread and came up with EVs can drain from 10 to 20 miles of range just from a 15F/-10C cold start condition (and battery conditioning in an EV can have a more robust system that draws 11.5 or more KW and require 30-45 minutes or more)
Range is one thing, but realistically the car would be doing this while plugged in at home before being driven, so we have to look at how that affects ownership cost and the effective comparison in cost per mile with gasoline.

Long story short, a year-round average would show that an EV doesn't save nearly as much $$$ as advertised. In many cases the ratio between an ICE gas cost and EV use is more like 70%-50% rather than 50%-30% as commonly cited.
In my opinion EV cars are being false-advertised with absolute best case scenario costs and there needs to be consumer laws in place to rectify this.

>>16000796
"a fool and his money are soon parted" will always negate whatever false-advertising statues are in place.
people who buy EVs are dumb and they had money to burn, someone was going to gyp them out of it one way or another

>>15980113
because they're junk, why would anyone buy a less functional vehicle when regular cars are better in every way?

>>15980113
Diesel is shit in cold weather as well. Petrol isn't bulletproof as well. In Siberia, they leave cars turned on even during the night because otherwise they freeze. In Canada they have electric heaters they put under their cars to keep them warm during the night, some cars even have it built-in where you plug the car directly to a power socket.
Harsh weather will always be an obstacle to technology.

>>15983241
If it replicates you 1000 times, which one are you?

>>15999307
latinx are another 20%

>>15993211
We need more Tony Heller threads on /sci/

>>15980113
>>15980127
The area in question is Chicago, and it’s because they left the plugs on the ground to get flooded and then ice over.
If you left a gas pump nozzle on the ground to get flooded with water and then frozen solid over night it would have the same effect.

>>15980245
More like Chicago is full of low IQ animals who leave shit on the ground.

>>15980557
he's defending his dogship purchase

>>16006001
a fool and their money are soon parted

>>16002232
>>16007411
The bots start repeating themselves

>>15980113
Because musk is a greedy charlatan so he never mentions the massive downside of using battery power

>>15985253
What is the advantage of an EV?

>>16008891
If you're driving one nobody will mistake you for a heterosexual

>>16006001
people don't like to admit they've made a mistake, especially not in public

>>16009811
its funny because its true

>>16008891
>Cheaper fuel
>More energy efficient
>Better acceleration
>Quieter
>Onboard computer with useful features
I dunno, it's probably just some kind of scam

>>16012617
>Cheaper fuel
nope
>More energy efficient
nope
>Better acceleration
worse deceleration, which is more important
>Quieter
cabin noise is a function of how much sound proofing is built into a vehicle
>Onboard computer with useful features
that could be built into anything

>>15980113
because they rely on the transfer of electrolytes across a fluid medium. performance drops as the temp drops.

>>16013064
>Cheaper fuel
It is, unless you're getting fucked over by poor electricity planning.
>More energy efficient
It's literally a fact. Disagree with it all you want, facts don't care about your feelings.
>worse deceleration, which is more important
Do... do you think that EVs don't come with brakes?
>cabin noise
You spend more time outside of your cabin though.
>that could be built into anything
Unlike brakes? Also, are you going to run the equivalent of a workstation PC off a puny 12V car battery, driven by a dynamo with efficiency of fuel -> electrical of <10%??

>>16008891
EVs are still “second vehicle” cars, IMO. But I also think they perform admirably in that capacity.
Legit they save you time fueling if you always plug in at home and never travel more than the listed range. They save you fuel costs if you have access to cheap electricity. They save you costs in maintenance if you drive gently. They are very fun to drive if you are will to spend too much money. Everything about EVs has a caveat, but if you can match those requirements, they are good cars.
The downsides however are kinda brutal. Although the risk of fire from an EV is less than most gas powered cars, gas cars still generally do not catch on fire during normal operations as much as EVs. Things like charging in your garage might cost you your whole house in a blazing inferno. This is unacceptable. Cold weather operation can severely reduce range, which means people north of 40 degrees latitude are SOL much of the year unless you are willing to overbuy you range requirements. And if you don’t own a garage at all, no EV for you. Most of the benefits of an EV will remain entirely unavailable.

>>16013100
>electricity is less expensive because its not taxed at over 100% of it's price of delivery.
that will change as soon as electric cars become more common

>>16014513
>>16013064
>Imagine being this retarded
ICEs are inefficient garbage and humanity will be better for discarding the technology. You are relics of the past who will be irrelevant and forgotten y history.

>>16013083
wtf i thought modern batts were solid state

>>15980113
it doesn't work because lithium batteries have a temperature range. if the temperature is too low then the chemistry of the battery stops working for retaining electrons. obviously you'd need to look further into it but if it's too cold the chemistry of the battery changes enough that charging and discharging becomes an issue.

so charging in cold weather requires first warming up the battery and then keeping it warm so that it can be charged.

>>16014923
they've been talked about for a long time but it's always been proof of concept stuff, not something mass-produced for consumer applications.

>>16010686
And that's a good thing

>>16014583
Except ICE is the power train that dominates run time, endurance, and range.
Fact is, over 100 years of development have made ICE vehicles so reliable that it is difficult to generate electricity with greater efficiency. ICE isn’t going anywhere, I’m afraid. And even if EVs are widely adopted, they are the most practical range extenders.
Picrel is an operating ICE.

>>16015878
>Fact is, over 100 years of development have made ICE vehicles so reliable that it is difficult to generate electricity with greater efficiency.
The efficiency is around 10%

>>16015878
>Except ICE is the power train that dominates run time, endurance, and range.
Lol no.

>have made ICE vehicles so reliable that it is difficult to generate electricity with greater efficiency.
LOL no.

>ICE isn’t going anywhere, I’m afraid. And even if EVs are widely adopted, they are the most practical range extenders.
LOL NO.

Cope harder, dicklet.

>>16015886

>>16015194
>so charging in cold weather requires first warming up the battery and then keeping it warm so that it can be charged.
and then keeping it warm so it can hold the charge

>>16018231
how do they lose that much money selling EVs when Tesla makes a massive profit on the same product?

>>16018714
Tesla doesn't make a profit, its just a ponzi scheme. Tesla has a high stock price based on predictions of potential future profits, they lose money selling cars and make money selling shares. Ford is an old company so it doesn't show the share value growth rate Tesla does, so Ford can't pull off the same ponzi scheme trickery that Tesla can since Ford's stock price has been high for decades already. Ford has to sell cars at a profit to make money.

>>15980113
They do.

These same tired arguments against new transport technology circa 120 years ago:

>There's not enough gasoline for anyone
>There's not enough oil to lubricate parts
>Horses can travel off road
>Cars are too expensive
>Where are you gonna find parts?
>You can take a horse and carriage caravan across the continent, cars can't leave town
>It's too hard to drive
>It's gonna put horse salesmen out of business
>It's gonna put blacksmiths who make horseshoes out of business
>Who wants to hand crank an engine to start?
>I heard those hand cranks break people's arms
>Cars can't go as fast as a horse can
>It's unnatural
>No carrying capacity
>Wagons cant be too heavy

Electric transportation is almost an inevitable future simply based on its efficiency. An internal combustion engine is by its own nature inefficient in turning chemical potential energy to kinetic energy because most of it is lost as waste heat which must be managed or else the engine will seize and warp (or the upper cylinder will predetonate and will be inefficient). The power supplied to electric vehicles can be centralized to cleaner sources. Nuclear plants, for example, or even coal plants can have better cleaning technology than the management of millions of ICE cars on the road with rusty catalytic converters, bad injectors, and any of the other hundreds of potential sources of inefficient combustion.

By centralizing power and distributing it for much more efficient use by electric motors, a lot of problems can be addressed on all sides of the environmental argument. Even the bitching about lithium mining in batteries will likely dissipate with innovation; perhaps iron-carbon cells will be improved dramatically and allow for a feasible long-range battery system in the future. Who knows? I think it's wrong to mandate electric vehicles, but the benefits of an electric vehicle future far outweigh being beholden to our current ways.

>>16019685
No they don't

>>16018714
Ford is insanely stupid. This is a historical fact. In this round, they put their chips in the recycled F-150 and Mustang brands to sell EVs to nobody.

>>16020326
Ford had to do that to get a decent ESG score so they could borrow money at a reasonable interest rate. Their only other choice was borrowing at usury rates which they wouldn't have been able to pay back if anyone would even lend to them to begin with

>>15980121
This person is a corporate shill who doesn’t want you to know that big companies are poisoning the earth for massive profits.

Also
>my roof can’t be on fire because my basement is cold

>>16019784
Energy density of freedoline is greater than that of your good goy grid.

>>16021379
Retard argument. Again, this is something that would've been said in opposition to the internal combustion engine in personal vehicles circa 1900. It will take time to upgrade the grid for support but the costs are negligible compared to the benefits long term.

>good goy grid.
Executives of every oil company are jews. They've also been saying we're running out of oil so they can charge you unbelievable prices for gasoline and petroleum products. They want you to be happy to have the privilege of purchasing gas at over $3.00 a gallon with a peak efficiency of 10% while ignoring the fact that electricity costs almost nothing even with an underpowered low supply/high demand grid.

Go back to your containment board you double digit retard

>>15980113
russia is cold and steals mghz to keep their petroeum industry warm

>>16021360
>its a conspiracy!!!
https://www.psycom.net/paranoid-schizophrenia

>>16021360
>big companies are poisoning the earth
Their customers are responsible for paying them to do so. Companies will stop polluting if their customers want them to.
You socialists do not seem to understand this. It is very frustrating for me.

>>16019784
If you think electric vehicles are more efficient in a real world pragmatic sense, rather than purely academic, let’s hear your opinion when you think the militaries of the world will switch over to electric jeeps, trucks and cars.

>>16023975
This, consumer vehicles need armor so we can be pragmatic in the real world like the military