/sci/ - Science & Math

most of that money is secretly funneled to Israel

Oh that's like when michelson and morley were convinced their experiment had something wrong because it couldnt prove the ether.

>just one more tokamak bro i swear we're going to crack magnetic confinement fusion this time i just need one more factor of ten bro

higher energy collisions is where new physics may exist, you just cant know ahead, all current theories only work at the energy ranges they have been tested

>>16014119
at least tokamak shows a trend of improvement in confinement, still not economic

>>16014109
U jelly of our funding?

>>16014122
that's bullshit, there's plenty of new physics to be discovered by playing around with new materials. Physicists are just lazy and want to work on abstractions instead of doing real work.

>>16014127
Diminishing returns, with the added "perk" that sinking 99% of funding into one project shuts out the vast majority of researchers in the field from contributing new solutions.

Fusion needs to go back to the drawing board - take everything they've learned over the last 50 years and see how efficiently they can make small scale fusion devices with that information. Then scale up from there.

>>16014139
well i was only talking about fundamental physics

>>16014139
>presents measurements by physicists
>complains that physicists are too lazy to do these measurements
???

>>16014147
>how efficiently they can make small scale fusion devices with that information.
people go to the drawing board all the time and the conclusion is that bigger is better. Obsessing over miniaturization just makes it harder, you are just adding another challenge

>>16014147
>sinking 99% of funding into one project shuts out the vast majority of researchers in the field fr
then we need additional funding

>>16014155
>>16014159
Just taking the limit to funding and experiment scale go to infinity is not a solution because the end result is not going to be feasible, neither economically nor in terms of engineering, to mass produce.

>>16014196
>neither economically nor in terms of engineering, to mass produce.
dont care, its not my or your job to care about the financial side, this isnt a business

>>16014113
#loveislove

>>16015796

where the fuck does all this money come from
can i have just a little piece of the pie? Just make the collider like a foot shorter and set me up for life bro
that's all im asking for

>>16015903
Anon learns about corruption in real time

okay i did the math,
each foot of this thing would be worth $77,098.4178064
so i'd actually like about 10 feet of it instead
15 feet
no one would notice a measly 20 feet!

>>16014109
>yeah dude just give half your tax to africans and israel and the other half to some useless shit to make physicists feel self important
Fuck physicists there are people in our own countries that can't afford fucking homes.

>>16015918
welfare gibes for ethnics and welfare gibes for soiyence are the same thing, both groups are useless toxic parasites, the only difference is that the per capita spending for soiyence faggots is like 1000x more.

>>16014139
>Physicists are just lazy and want to work on abstractions instead of doing real work.
Thats because abstractions lend themselves to bullshitting for a living while engaging in productive activity does not. The bullshit artists pride themselves on making a living while being worthless, they'd rather die than do something productive because they feel that being useful is somehow beneath them.

>>16015918
Just take out a $500k loan at 6% for 40 years bro and you'll be good.

>>16014109
>>just one more collider bro plz bro
Why don't you cheeky fuckers go mine an asteroid instead of keep asking gibs for collider and telescopes.

>>16014109
>gibes me dat moni fo free
>t. soiyence

>>16014147
nobody needs or wants more useless soience claptrap. get a real job

>>16018852
>get a real job
they can't, they aren't qualified for doing useful work, they don't know how to do useful work

>>16014109
The electron is a superluminal particle and electric charge is a consqeuence of this.

>>16014196
>the end result is not going to be feasible, neither economically nor in terms of engineering, to mass produce.
We don't mass produce power plants
And even if a single fusion reactor had to be as large as 10 modern power plants that would be well worth it.
Maybe even 30.
Humanity would adapt our infrastructure to them. One power plant to power a whole country would not be that hard in light of 70 years of research. Maybe not the smartest idea, but it's doable, and actually kinda cool.

>>16019752
>they aren't qualified for doing useful work, they don't know how to do useful work
furthermore, they would absolutely refuse to do anything useful. they feel they're too good and too superior to need to produce something worthwhile in order to justify their salaries, they expect to have it all given to them for free, just like a bunch welfare queens

physics students are mostly morons who don't know much besides QFT. For those drones, if there is something incomplete from a theory, then it means there is a new particle somewhere. Those idiots have made up hundreds of particles so far and they are still looking for more. That's the entirety of their intellectual framework. LOL. And btw, the job is shit. HEP is really just computing feynman diagrams to some retarded orders in terms of h_bar. It's just computer stuff and 0% physics.
Since the LHC is the biggest DUD in the history of physics, those morons fear they got exposed. So what did they do? they said they wanted 100 billions this time to build a bigger LHC, and to achieve what? discovering new particles LOL.
It is just putting ones head in the sand at this point

even on a global scope, theoretical physics is pretty much dead. Zero innovation since the discovery of the CMB.
All the atheists crave for a new scientific revival with biology, AI, and biohacking but it wil be an even bigger dud. And even worse, they are even less a science, because the side effects are even more complicated to predict in general, and with respect to the particularities of such and such genetic population.
And people will scream about ethical stuff since testing on living beings will be even more mandatory sooner or later...
Even on the level of the daily life, you can see the scientific decay with videogames. video games coming out today basically look like the games they were releasing on 360 and PS3 ca. 2005-2007 when I was in middle school. Compare a pixelated N64 game from the late 90s with a 1080p HD Xbox 360 game from the mid 2000s and the difference is astonishing. Compare a 360 game like CoD4 from the mid 2000s with the latest version of the same game 15 years later, and you will find very few differences. If 3D graphics were progressing at the same rate as in the late 90s and early 00s, then we would have photorealistic videogames by now.

>>16020492
Anyway, all of that is meaningless, because videogames graphics are largely irrelevant to science and only have relevance for mindless loq IQ normie conSOOOMers. All I need to do is look at actual math and science research. Math is doing better than physics or chemistry, for example, but the only new areas of math that are highly active are the Langlands Program, and Complex Systems/Chaos/Complex Networks, and even that is kind of loosing steam at this point. It was super trendy in the 70-90s and helped pave the way for stuff like data science, but even progress in those fields is slowing. The most active areas of science today really seem to be biotech, cognitive science, and systems biology. Physics, chemistry, math, etc. are largely stagnant, and are becoming increasingly insular and isolated from one another, and more so for institutional and bureaucratic reasons, and not because this is more scientifically productive or something like that.

>>16020495
They hit the human made math wall, why I ended up playing steam cause the suggested me into it crowd, cause it can play, see rinse and repeat and you will find ai made math

>>16020492
>Those idiots have made up hundreds of particles
this isnt 1970, particle zoo isnt a thing anymore

>>16020495
>helped pave the way for stuff like data science,
what exactly is data science?

>>16014109
>implying /sci/ isn't in support of colliders the size of the solar system

>>16014109
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDKo7pTwIwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K-i57dd7t0

Anyone remember when CERN fired up the LHC for the first time? How panicked and freaked out everyone was it was some dooms day device?
Now they want to make one that's 3 times larger. Will people freak out again like last time?

CERN is a total failure, they produce nothing of an value or worth, just like NASA. Both are just a big waste

>>16014109
Waste of time. Debunked by our gurl sabine

>>16014109
Someone hurry up and solve dark matter before they waste our taxes on this dumb shit

>construction in the 2040s
>implying

>>16020793
Don't they already know time travel is impossible?

Just hurry up and discover new physics that gets rid of the ridiculously bloated particle zoo.
The Universe shouldn't be that complicated. There will be one fundamental thing that manifests everything we see today.

God, I wish I could be the guy who discovers it. I would leave it unnamed until I have achieved world wide fame as being the guy who reduced the entirety of existence down to just one fundamental thing. Then on a live interview watched by billions of people around the world they would ask me if I had decided on a name for this fundamental thing.
"Yes, I have, it will be called THE ASSFUCKER"
Then I would drop my pants, dance a little jig, and crow like a rooster.
"COCKADOODLE-DOOOOOOOOO!"

>>16015918
>build homes for retards that couldn't keep them
Whitey On the Moon tier thinking.

>>16018852
Jobs like those are more real than almost all other science or engineering careers.
If my son told me he was going to work for CERN or going to work for a petrochemical company, there is no timeline where I'd be happier to hear the latter.

>>16021444
the more fake particles they invent the more welfare gibes they can demand for "research"

>>16014122
>>16014129
>>16014113

there is no proof anything about particle physics is real

meanwhile, chemistry proven true for like 200 years now

>>16022896
And that would be fine if they gave all these fake particles interesting names instead of boring shit like "strange pentaquark" and "tetraquarks"

Jesus wept. How mediocre. Now if it were to me I would have a list of names already prepared for any new fake particles. Here we go.

"Greasy dick particle"
"Fecal fart particle"
"Anal quark"
"Vagsnbobs" ( reserved for Indian researchers )
"Designated particle" ( also reserved for Indian researchers )

It would be far more interesting and humorous to hear scientists talk about the interactions between exotic particles such as the "Largerectal cavitrons" and "Stinkycock quarks"
At the very least it would ignite the public's interest in particle physics.

>>16014109
They're devoted to studying nonexistent made up phantom objects and ""facts""" because they're not capable of doing anything of noteworthy value in IRL life. No different than the dark matter kikes

>>16024095
What competing theory do you have that blows dark matter out of the water?

>>16014109
Doesn't it take years just to analyze the data from using something like the LHC, which is why it's only been run a few times? What's the point of building an even bigger/more expensive collider if we haven't exhausted our current colliders potential

>>16024481
The LHC runs almost continuously, it only stops in the winter and occasionally for upgrades over a long shutdown.

>>16024520
Ah fair, dunno anything about the LHC

>>16024481
>Doesn't it take years just to analyze the data from using something like the LHC
Yes.
>which is why it's only been run a few times?
No.
>What's the point of building an even bigger/more expensive collider if we haven't exhausted our current colliders potential
The point isn't to get more of the same data, the point is to get different data, for example from colliding other particles (electrons and positrons) or at higher energies per particle than currently possible at the LHC.

>>16014119
literally came to say the copy pasted exact same thing

>>16014109
>just one more aid package bro I swear Ukraine is gonna win the war this time they just need one more counteroffensive bro!!!
Governments spend money on dumb things all the time. At least funding physics research has the potential to do something more interesting than make money for Raytheon and Boeing shareholders.

>>16020492
>Physics is wrong because videogames

>>16025016
>my greedy wasteful pet faggotry is acceptable because other people are also being greedy waste faggots
why can't you faggots just get aids and die without demanding endless infinite welfare gibes from people who lead their lives in a decent productive manner? why do you insist on being a toxic leech as well as a faggot?

>>16014109
Maybe they should wait until they have enough money and technology to build one that can uncover secrets of 100% of the universe. Saying it's only getting 95% of the info means it's guaranteed that as soon as it's built they're going to want to build a bigger one again

>>16026008
>why do you insist on being a toxic leech as well as a faggot?
i explained this: Leverage
The physics community has leverage because they are very useful to the world, so they can ask back for something more than the means to survive

>>16021444
I want you to be the guy that discovers it as well anon

>>16026456
>because they are very useful to the world
they aren't, they're just leeches

>>16023029
Instead of "Bottom" and "Top" quarks it should be "Cringe" and "Based"

>>16027071
>they aren't, they're just leeches
physicists work as physics teachers in universities, without them you cant train engineers

>>16014109
There's only two things I'm not stingy about: military and advanced particle physics spending.
We need to be ahead in this.
We need to be the ones to uncover the secrets of the universe.

>>16014109
I am not against spending more money on research but i guess at some point you have to ask if spending so much on just particle accelerators is an efficient use of those finite funds. There are plenty of fields of research than can benefit us. Particle physics have given us a lot but i just wonder if there are many things left there that have practical uses for humans.

>>16014154
>>presents measurements by engineers
>>complains that physicists are too lazy to do these measurements
ftfy

>>16014109
is it really necessary to understand subatomic particles and whatnot
people are just going to keep on living who actually gives a shit about the higgs boson or whatever the fuck

>>16028302
Necessary not really but it can be assumed it will be used eventually. For example quantum tunneling is used in microscopes.

>>16028302
It's the materialist obsession.
They believe they are crushing "matter" down to an ultimate irreducible constituent.
Little do they know they are actually making sharper and sharper splash in a pond.
There's no limit to how high the splashes can go nor how many coins you can throw into the water. Very fun thing to do since you also get to pocket a few for lunch.

>just one more space telescope bro i swear we're going to crack grand big bang theory this time i just need one more factor of ten on bro!!!

>>16014109
why not?
where else should the money go?

Honestly sometimes I consider I was lucky to end up not studying physics, my original plan, and going for engineering instead

>>16028775
It's a chorizo not a sun you dum fuk!

>>16014109
>it could, but it wont
welp, pack it up bois

>>16028779
why do you feel so entitled to acquire spend other people's money?

>>16028313
so what? those microscopes aren't used for any worthwhile purpose

>>16021447
So is building supercolliders for mendicants who can't do anything useful with them

Both neutrons and protons can be broken apart in a process analogous to nuclear fission of U-235. The reaction releases massive energy.
Quark energy will only be developed if new accelerators are developed.

>>16014109
copying from an older reply:
Since particle travel through matter the probability of undergoing multiple scattering (due to weak interaction) is greater the beamline vacuum. This limits the resolution of your measurements. For instance,
> assuming a simple beamline (which LHC is NOT)
> Your momentum resolution depends on
> [math]\beta = v/c[/math] which depends the actual speed your particle is going at
< therefore, momentum resolution before adding the detector noise etc:

[eqn]\frac{\sigma_p^{\mathrm{ms}}}{p}=\frac{\Delta p_x^{\mathrm{ms}}}{\Delta p_x}=\frac{0.0136 \cdot \cos \lambda}{0.3 \beta B L} \cdot \sqrt{\frac{L_{\mathrm{T}}}{X_0}}[/eqn]

Not only this but energy loss in matter can also be described as:
> energy loss means deposited energy in your detectoe (which makes up your measurement)
> energy loss also means ionization factor!

[eqn]-\frac{d E}{d x}=\frac{4 \pi n z^2 e^4}{m_e v^2} \int_{b_{\min }}^{b_{\max }} \frac{d b}{b}=\frac{4 \pi n z^2 e^4}{m_e v^2} \ln \frac{b_{\max }}{b_{\min }}[/eqn]

Higher energies penetrate deeper into matter without losing energy. Along the Radiation length [math]\Chi_0[/math], the Bragg peaks (max energy deposit) also depends on speed of the particle!
> see picrel for the penetration depth vs energy deposited vs energy of particle

[eqn]E_{\text {Compton }}=E_T(\max )=E\left(1-\frac{1}{1+\frac{2 E}{m_{\mathrm{e}} v^2}}\right)[/eqn]

so if we have bigger boom it should get better.

>>16014139
I agree with this anon too, we should more or less look for anomalous materials. Not talking about qubits necessarily but perhaps also metamaterials and >>THz ranges

>>16020492
as an engineer I have to agree they only know how to use python nowadays. I've met with exceptional cases too, but they also are fixated on abstracted layers of bullshit like the higgs chain.

>>16020793
>Will people freak out again like last time?
i hope so will be very funny

>>16032340
We already have fission power thats barely utilized, we don't need new ways to generate nuclear energy.

>>16033184
>we don't need new ways to generate nuclear energy.
Quark power offer a lot more power. Literally near 100% mass-energy conversion of any matter, any element.
I basically just settled this debate, your only argument was a lack of uses for HEP, now they are destroyed. Saying you personally dont care about some application is a very weak argument that no one cares about

>>16032491
[eqn]
\frac{\sigma_p^{ \mathrm{ms}}}{p}= \frac{\Delta p_x^{ \mathrm{ms}}}{ \Delta p_x}=
\frac{0.0136 \cdot \cos \lambda}{0.3 \beta B L} \cdot \sqrt{ \frac{L_{ \mathrm{T}}}{X_0}}
[/eqn]

>>16033194
We already have fission power thats barely utilized, we don't need new ways to generate nuclear energy.

>>16021413
The LHC determined we live in a metastable universe and thus we may live in a false vacuum

>>16014113
Based knower

>>16034367
meaningless statement, you dont know what any of that means

They should find a way to fuel it with the bodies of science reporters.

>>16014109
Why dont they just push the collider to its full limit? Surely they aren't using it at 100%. What's the worst thing that can happen?

>>16020492
>Zero innovation since the discovery of the CMB.

Can't even look at the CMB for too long either. Too scary!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil_(cosmology)

>>16032340
The oil jews will just kill you when you try.

>>16034686
they like spouting out random soiencey sounding meme words and phrases, it makes them feel like they're smart

>>16035964
The technical term for that is "glossolalia", its extremely common amongst college kids.

>>16014109
Why don't they just pay Elon to build one on the moon?

>>16034701
Let me guess, you heard about this on YouTube? The axis is low significance, exaggerated by the masks applied to remove the Galactic emission. It's not even 2 sigma. And nobody has stopped observing the CMB.

>>16034697
its worthless, using it a 100% produces the same nothing that using it at 0% does

>>16020492
Based