/sci/ - Science & Math

Post your transcripts btw!

>>15996065
Why would you slack off on your hardest class? It was taking up half your time for a reason.

>>15996108
I didn't have enough time for my other classes. Comp architecture, calc 3 and probability all were demanding my time, so I decided to sacrifice org chem. But I couldn't imagine I will get C. RIP my perfect gpa.

>>15996065
how much time do you study per day?

>>15996065
You were never going to be perfect, because you're human. This is the part where you grow up.

>>15996250
No one cares about a 4.0. Even you would have stopped caring a few months after starting your first job. You'll end up someplace like Amgen regardless of if you get a 4.0 or a 3.483. Your post-university life will be absolutely the same regardless of which of those GPAs you get. Try to avoid any more 'C' grades but allow yourself a few 'B' grades and enjoy your university days a bit beyond the classroom.

>>15996065
Why is orgo so hard? Is that where your memorization is pushed to the limits or where memorization isn't the answer anymore? I thought physics was where your flash card memorization fails

>>15996065
>United States history I & II
Kek

>>15996065
you're gonna get raped in the ass later if you already dropped a C on org chem I. ngmi brother start looking out for janitor (real life) applications.

>>15996065
are US colleges really like this? with so many different areas i doubt you could go really deep in any of them. it looks like high school.
post one of your calculus exams

>>15996252
I go to sleep around 9 - 9:30pm, wake up at 4am and study until my early classes. During the day I study when I have free time between my classes, never study in the evenings.

>>15996274
>Is that where your memorization is pushed to the limits or where memorization isn't the answer anymore?
You can memorize your way through organic chemistry and memorize many many esoteric mechanisms. But it is much, much, much harder than simply understanding how it works.
It's similar to physics in that you can memorize all those equations and derivations or you can simply understand why a certain integral is where it is and what it does.

>>15996065
>6 completely scattered lectures per semester
how do you Americans learn anything? No wonder your degrees are toilet paper

>>15996274
For me personally, it was surprisingly different from and hard to relate to gen chem that I studied before. And it's a lot of material to cover, tons of reactions you have to understand and they all seem to have their own unique characteristics. Very time consuming.

>>15996283
>>15996299
That's because I'm doing double major and also taking gen ed classes. This is my current term classes. Almost finished my gen ed classes (I think I have only 1 more gen ed requirement left). I also need to take Phys I and II, but have too many sci classes this sem, so I plan to take phys I in the summer while doing research(required btw).

>>15996317
literally just random shit

>>15996317
>not enough time to complete 6 courses
>takes 7 courses with a harder version of the course he couldn't into
What the fuck are you doing?

>>15996317
buddy what are you even studying?
I see neither Biochemistry nor Computer Science in your classes.

I think you need to loosen up a bit, go outside and have some beers.

>>15996065
I've been trying since 2015 to get my physics degree and I still have one year left. People like you who pass but want better grades annoy me

>>15996333
Well, look. Two easy gen ed classes, plus I'm well prepared for math classes and I studied for bio II and org chem II during the winter break. I need to do at least 164 credits in 4 years to do both majors, so can't really loosen up. Org chem II might become a problem again, but I will take it more seriously this semester.
>>15996336
I have one COSC and one CHEM class this semester if you paid attention. Course load will become more specialized starting from the next year. I do bjj 4 times a week and have gf, but I don't drink alcohol because of my psoriasis.

>>15996350
that's just sad

>>15996350
you seem like a loser desu

>>15996350
Hope you make it m8

>22 hourse
You must have a fucking deathwish. Also yeah, you wont be able to continue this as your classes get more difficult.

Grade lookingfaggots are worst students

>>15996065
>double major biochem / cs
you don't double major two real majors. rookie mistake

>>15996274
Orgo 1 is about actually understanding basic chemistry, the actual space molecules take up (chemistry is more than balancing equations), and the consequences of these “steric” factors within specific conditions. The reason it filters premeds so much is because you can’t memorize everything thing.
>t. Biology major
Orgo 2 will in fact kill you though, i don’t care who you are. That has to be the hardest undergraduate class ever

>>15996434
Thanks friend.

>>15996317
Please post your weekly course schedule. Also, how do you even find the right time slots to get the courses you want together? It was annoying enough for me when 'only' taking five classes (though my college is probably smaller)

>>15997264
Don't really want to post my schedule because it will be obvious where I study and I don't want to dox myself. It's stacked from 8am to 3 pm pretty much everyday. My only issue with my current schedule is one class GOVT 2305 that I have on Thursday evening from 7pm to 8:30pm. I don't like studying in the evenings and it also coincides with my bjj session.

>>15996521
>biochem
>real major in 2024
no, it's neutered for all the premeds who think they're too smart for biology
t. biochem

>>15996065
>biochem and CS
>organization and architecture
you're doing it wrong, a undergrad in CS is a meme for biocomputing, you need the algos and stats, not a double major with BS foundations. Only thing I lacked in prereqs to enter 4000-6000 CS was datastructures, which I got excused, nothing else.
pic related is my favorite one, prof started colisting his PhD classes just so he didn't have to manually approve request after I filled minor requirements last year.

.t MolBio/CS grad

>>15997349
honestly this, undergrad cell bio and biochem lab literally have the same syllabus and it's a waste of time to require both. fucking joke of a course post-covid. animal phys lab was a joke too.
I moved from vocational (biotech, mostly ethics, techniques, and regulations on top of an AS) and hated all the core req courses. Partly why I moved to CS in my last semester. Only really got back to enjoying classes in grad school. MBoC, physiology in extreme environments, and advanced genetics/-omics work.

>>15997409
I wanto to do phd in anti-aging because I want find a cure for aging. My grandpa was a really strong man. Ten years ago hugging him felt like hugging a terminator. Now he's falling apart in front of my eyes. I'm doing cs because I want to be technically proficient in AI so that I can use it for my research. My plan is to do double major in biochem and cs, double masters in AI and something like genetics or molecular biology and then do phd at a very prestigious university like MIT or UT Austin at worst. Not that I care about prestige, I just know that these places will provide me more opportunities to do high quality research. I don't mind taking wide variety of cs classes. It will make me more well rounded, better prepared and have better understanding how things work.

>>15997439
as long as you know what to do with your loans/time
I only had to pay for two years of uni, and ride a shitty commute for four. Although I'm only minoring in CS in a technical sense, basically double mastering in it while my goal for working at $DNA burns a shitty death in the process.

>>15996065
>CUM

>>15996065
Just how much are grades inflated in US schools?
The best students in European schools rarely have straight As, yet US asian autists have papers published + internships + 4.0 GPAs by the time they graduate. Here, people usually are happy with one internship experience and a 3.5. What the fuck? Someone who's gone through both EU and US systems please explain.

>>15997756
They have less classes / credits to fill overall. Also classes are easier. Also it is well known that ivy leagues have grade inflations.
Overall the american grading philosophy is not similar to Europe, in France, a 16/20 is considered very good and gives you the highest mention you can get at the final country-wide high school exam.
Anything above is just extra. But in the US, a 16/20 ~ 80% is shit unironically if you aim for a top school.

US schools also give much more free time by asking for less credits to their students, there are sometimes points for attendence, sometimes you can pick which class counts toward your GPA, some schools will even have a pass/fail grading system so passing is basically full score. Difficulty is also not comparable, they ask less of you to get an A. There is just so much that goes into it.

In Europe, you get 5~6 classes a semester if you attend a good university, and the exam can be expected to be hard, grades are usually curved anyway because it's rare for someone to get a 100%, so they will adjust based on the highest grade of the class. It's more like a competition, if others have low grade, and you are graded relatively to their performance, then it's in your best interest to not help them out during the semester so that you get extra points.

I would argue that the EU system puts their students down by being so elitist and selective, and overall makes them waste their time.
Most students have zero internship experience by the time they get their Bachelors, so it's pretty much required to get a Master's to even get a job in the first place. There is also zero room for research in EU, labs generally don't take bachelor students, and professors will outright tell you to not publish because they think an undergrad student has zero capability for research. In the US, professors push your career forward as much as they can.

I have been through: french prepa, EPFL then later on berkeley for an exchange.

>>15996317
why is your schedule filled with tiny low-credit courses? having a few high-credit courses would make your life much easier.
Also
>Organic Chemistry II
yea this was one of the most demanding courses I did during my undergraduate. very rewarding and applicable once you learn it though.
>Linear Algebra
Never had this course myself, but I helped a friend with it last year. Definitaly one of the most frustrating subjects I've ever had to learn.
Good luck to you btw

>>15997439
Ah the joys of being young and innocent.

>>15997768
>In Europe, you get 5~6 classes a semester if you attend a good university, and the exam can be expected to be hard, grades are usually curved anyway because it's rare for someone to get a 100%, so they will adjust based on the highest grade of the class. It's more like a competition, if others have low grade, and you are graded relatively to their performance, then it's in your best interest to not help them out during the semester so that you get extra points.
Why are you lying?
In Europe you tend to take 10 to 12 classes a semester, but university isn't an extension of high school. No attendance requirements on normal classes (but sometimes for auxiliary classes).
You just can just show up and do the exam if you want.

Grading on a curve also doesn't happen, because it is a retarded idea that is based on the idea that people need to pass somehow if they pay a lot of money. It also ruins cooperation between students, making everything a lonely cutthroat affair.
And if 90% if people fail? Well, good luck next time, you can take the exam several times.

>>15997768
>labs generally don't take bachelor students, and professors will outright tell you to not publish because they think an undergrad student has zero capability for research
And this is correct and something many people don't want to hear. Labs are not a playground.
Undergrads barely know their subject (probably not even that), how are they able to know what is of interest to the community? How are they going to develop novelties that are gonna bring in citations? Publishing costs money. Research materials cost money. Your PIs time costs money.
Who is paying for these flights of fancy?

>>15997873
I agree with you, but relative to America, students are at a huge disadvantage.
Giga eurogeniuses that were ahead of their peers with a 3.5 can't compare on paper with some asian american with 3 publications and an inflated 4.0 when applying for a PhD, for instance.

>>15996317
>>15997770
If this is computational based linear algebra then you'd probably be fine. That class is on the same level of difficulty as a humanities elective. Proof based linear algebra on the other hand is not. Same thing with discrete math, it's probably one of the easiest upper level math classes. Frankly, good luck, you're gonna need it.

>>15997768
You forgot that generally it's only Humanities classes which have an attendance requirement in America. No STEM class I have ever taken or heard of has ever had an attendance requirement as part of its grade.

>>15997930
You don't apply for a PhD, anon.
If you have to apply, you are already doing something wrong.

>>15996065
the only thing that actually matters is getting internships. you go to college so you can get an internship somewhere, preferably more than one, and the internship gets you a job. GPA only matters for that purpose, then in the job interview you talk about what you did at the internship, then your next job interview you talk about what you did at the previous job, and so on

>>15997841
>Grading on a curve also doesn't happen
You are crazy if you genuinely think this is the case. the vast majority of uni classes are on curves except for non-technical / scientific fields perhaps.

>>15998068
No.

they should make a course on american education lol
>>15997756
a eu friend who went there for Msc and a PhF confirms american edu is a meme. I believe her, never heard of "grade inflation" anywhere but in the US
>>15997768
lol what a joke. Inflation doesn't happen, and I never heard of grading on a curve in my life. If you get half of the answers, you get half of the maximum, no matter if everybody fails or not. Grading method is decided beforehand too.
>>15998022
it's required by law in any civilised country that an ad is publicly posted and you apply and go through the whole process (decided by the institution), no matter how much the supervisor likes you. We at least try not to make nepotism too obvious, I see americans don't even.

>>15998123
The law is the law, yes.
You need to be able to operate within the letter of the law, but not necessarily the spirit of the law.
The way it works is that you write your public job offer based on the cv of the guy you want, so no matter who else applies, the candidate you want always wins, even if an impartial group that has nothing to do with you decides purely on qualifications.
This is very common literally everywhere.

But what I really mean is that if you have to compete for positions you're already playing the game wrong. You're not talking to people you're not getting connected. You're not trying to find an in.

>>15998130
I know, I know. Yet, some people still have integrity, believe it or not, and it is an important quality for a supervisor. I got my doctoral position competing with many others (50+), applying to a place abroad to which I had no connections at all. Went through it all and got it. Turns out one of my old supervisors knew them (still nothing more than talking at a conference or two mind you). I got it fair and square, so people shoudn't don't give up, some people do give merit when it's due.

>>15998162
"getting the candidate you want" isn't necessarily a nepotism thing. Maybe you just genuinely think the guy you want is the best guy and it's just a matter of making this happen within the law.

>>15998162
This is poor mentality. They want you to have slave morality because you inhibit yourself.

>>15997841
>In Europe you tend to take 10 to 12 classes a semester
huh? Well not in mine at least, I have 5 classes in all semesters for my bachelor

>>15998167
I agree. Why would you take your chances on strangers and not hire the guy who already has experience working with you and you don't have to train. I would too. But it's simply terrible for the other candidates. You waste their time. There should be a way to be able to do both, but this way you really favour nepotism and corruption.
>>15998170
uh?

>>15997930
What is it with so many people doing research early on these days, isn't the whole point of all the competition and bullshit that the people doing research aren't random uneducated idiots?

>caring about grades
Internships and research are far more fucking important

>>15997444
I'm on a full ride scholarship.
>>15997770
Pretty much all of courses at my university are 3-4 credit worth. We don't have higher than that. BS here typically requires 120 credits.

>>15999021
the idea is that if you do this stuff early, you'll be less trash later, but that doesn't really track, because if you do "research" during your undergrad you're just playing around and don't have the ability to actually do it.

>>16000237
What are you not allowed to know things or be skilled as an undergraduate student? Not allowing you to do something because of your class rank is is incredibly ridiculous.

>>16000265
No, you're just not going to know things or be skilled.

>>16000268
You are a fool.

>>15996065
O. Chem filters many such examples as OP

>>15996065
Do yourself a favor and just drop the biochem bullshit and focus only on CS.
>t. regretful organic chemist

>>16000265
It's hard to get any meaningful research done while taking a full course load.

>>16000233
>going to school on charity
cringe, some people work for a living

>>15997873
>Undergrads barely know their subject (probably not even that), how are they able to know what is of interest to the community?
They'll read papers.
>How are they going to develop novelties that are gonna bring in citations?
They'll run experiments or write proofs
>Publishing costs money.
lmao no
>Research materials cost money.
Like any other researcher, they have to pursue research plans they can afford.
>Your PIs time costs money.
Academia is filled with salaried chronic procastrinators. Your PI has time.

>>16000283
>You are a fool
This.

>>15996065
>getting a single C from an off term or because your humanities professor decided arbitrarily that they don't like you and thus can get away with saying "well it's worth this grade... because I say so!" can tank your gpa from perfect to a 3.8

I HATE THIS SYSTEM SO MUCH I HATE IT I HATE ACADEMIA I HATE THIS ENTIRE STRUCTURE THAT SHITS ON YOU LIKE THIS

>>16000550
>They'll read papers.
papers they barely understand if at all on concepts they're never even heard of because entire fields of research are never mentioned in undergrad education.

>They'll run experiments or write proofs
Yes, but how many do you need, how long do you need to get good? These things take time and until they do get good (which they likely won't in a reasonable timeframe) you're babysitting.
The added labor they offer is not worth the amount of time you need to spend on them.

>they have to pursue research plans they can afford.
So, none of them?

>Academia is filled with salaried chronic procastrinators. Your PI has time.
If there's no time, there's no time. Sorry.

I think you simply underestimate the gap between an undergrad and someone who actually does research. The gap is much wider than you expect.

>>16000686
Point of undergraduate research is to train students. While it's true that in their first or even second semester of research you need to babysit them, they do get better over time. It is one of the reasons why students from top US colleges do better at grad schools compared to EU students.

>>16000707
>why students from top US colleges do better at grad schools compared to EU students
What exactly are you trying to say here?

>>16000797
He's saying that students from the USA, students more likely to have been pushed to attempt research during undergraduate, perform better than european students, who are less likely to have attempted any research.

>>16000686
>I think you simply underestimate the gap between an undergrad and someone who actually does research. The gap is much wider than you expect.
I think you failed to locate the gap; the gap is widest between graduate students and researchers, not graduate and undergraduate students. The difficult part of research is picking problems, designing projects, and executing projects, not technical mastery.

>>16000824
>perform better
what does that mean?
European students can drink 3 times as many beers as American students, they clearly perform better.

>>15997756
>Just how much are grades inflated in US schools?
Basically the exams are usually difficult (if you have a professor who gives a fuck), but what happens is
>professor gives hard exam
>around a third of the class is in the C to A (73-100%) range
>the other two thirds are in the F to C- range
>professor realizes oh shit they need a C average to stay in the major I just can't let two thirds of the class be below that
>Everyone's grades get bumped up by anywhere from 5-20% (they call this a "curve" even though it doesn't follow any kind of distribution)
>the two thirds of the class that were supposed to be weeded out by the end of freshman year get to advance on to the next class which will cause the next prof to do the same thing
I think it stems from our highschools. The academic standards there for any subjects other than math, physics, and chemistry have dropped to the point of
>go to class
>copy a powerpoint into a notebook (or just watch youtube videos if that's too much works for the teacher that day)
>get a "study guide" where you have to fill in questions taken directly from the powerpoint
>The questions on the exam are identical to the study guide
And you basically got a bunch of kids go into college with expectations that they'll continue to get away with that level of work, and the university's have to let them to some extent

>>16000552
thats why only retards care about minor variations in GPA, if you read it in increments of 0.5 or 0.3 or something its much more useful

>>16000867
>>go to class
>>copy a powerpoint into a notebook (or just watch youtube videos if that's too much works for the teacher that day)
>>get a "study guide" where you have to fill in questions taken directly from the powerpoint
>>The questions on the exam are identical to the study guide
God. This shit happens in my third-world shithole (Bolivia), but I thought instructors in America at least had the decency of giving students challenging homework and exam questions and actually failing them if they don't know the material.

>>16000834
>I think you failed to locate the gap; the gap is widest between graduate students and researchers, not graduate and undergraduate students
Sure, but practically speaking undergrads are a whole other degree away from actually becoming fully fledged researchers.

>>15999033
I graduated with a ~2.5 GPA and it was kind of brutal since I'm in the gov/aerospace contractor field and they're still grilling me on why my grades were so bad every time I switch jobs (which fortunately isn't that often)

>>15998068
Aachen troglodyte here. It is absolutely not allowed to grade on scale here.
Where are you from that grading on scale is common?

>>16000824
weird, why is IAS stuffed full of yuropoors then?

>>16000934
There's a lot of small, but useful, work in the applied sciences. Introductory PhD work is overwhelmingly this. Undergraduates can certainly do this too. Many undergraduates don't have the technical skill, that's why they're taking intro classes, but a sizable minority is already past much of the basic material. That's why schools have Credit by Exam to skip classes and undergraduate research.

The idea that students learn in a uniform series is not only wrong, it's an inefficient approximation. Thus, undergraduate research.

>>16001057
I don't know. Maybe American researchers prefer industry. Maybe Europeans produce the very highest quality researchers, but not at scale, so high prestige areas are filled with them. Maybe Europeans are more likely to post-doc than Americans.

>>15996274
organic chemistry is (usually) designed as a weedout course for premeds. it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the underlying material but the way it's taught and tested.

>>15997756
>Just how much are grades inflated in US schools?
One thing you have to keep in mind that we have to take around a full year's worth of bullshit classes with nothing to do with our majors during the first half of our degrees, and you have a lot of flexibility in choosing these so we just pick the easiest ones. For example, in my school there was a "Fitness walking" class where all you had to do was walk around campus in a group during the lecture time and you got an A. Most of them aren't quite that easy, but pretty close, so by the time you actually reach tough courses you already have 50 or so credits from courses like that boosting your cumulative GPA
Also in general the more prestigious the university is the worse the grade inflation is because the students who got into those schools are special snowflakes who feel entitled to a good grade. It's still a problem at say the state university, but not nearly as bad

>>15996065
>6 classes per semester
Why are you trying to graduate so quickly nerd?