/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15968108
>despite
>yet
>does not follow
Regardless of anyone's opinion these words signal an argument and therefore do not belong in a context that claims to inform rather than convince as primary goal. It's disgusting.

>>15968119
>despite and yet signal an argument
ok retard

>>15968108
>The scientific consensus is...

>cancel anyone who hints at a genetic component

>The scientific consensus is...

>>15968108
>The Wall of Cope
All this will quietly disappear as soon as the (realiable) gene editing in humans becomes a reality...

>>15968108
>never closes beyond approximately half a standard deviation
Wow, that p value of 0.4 wouldn't even convince sensationalist garbage media. Congratulations, you're officially worse than them.

>i believe in science
>evolution is real
>except for evolution above the neck in humans
>if you believe in evolution above the neck in humans then you're an evil racist rreeeeeeeeeee

>>15968136
thats the difference between peer review an science
science is a method to find the truth and peer review is a method to find what falsehoods are most socially acceptable

>>15970700
>>15968136
lol, the worst part is that there is no consensus even among scientists. The consensus is among the media

>>15968162
Holy shit are you actually retarded? It's not one study supporting this, it's essentially the last 100 years of study after study being done, consistently showing a gap of approximately one standard deviation, and AT LEAST 7-8 points. The p value rapidly decreases. Do you have down syndrome? Or do you choose to be this 'tarded?

>>15970714
right, the academics all listen to npr on their drive to and from work and thats where they get all their opinions from. thats why communications is the highest iq degree. communications chads tell everyone else what to think

>>15968108
>b-but it can never be genetics... just because guys"
Because anyone who says what is clearly true gets kicked out of the sciences via cancel culture methods such as abuse of the peer review system
Thats why the peer review system was put in place to begin with, to silence dissent

>>15968108
Wikipedia *became* a reliable source when it, the CIA, the state department, progressives and academia all agreed.
If there is disagreement between academia and Wikipedia again it will become deemed unreliable again until it agrees again.

>>15968108
The entire premise of “having more IQ variation in a racial group than between racial groups” doesn’t hold up if you throw out outliers (genetic defects, physical brain damage, etc) and exclude racially mixed cohorts. That’s the nuance with this argument.

>>15968119
yes it projects an imagined strawman argument or conclusion onto the reader's mind and then "defeats it"
>well i knew what assumption you were obviously thinking. that black people are inferior hehe. you little racist pseud here's how it ackshually works

>>15973091

>>15968108
The existence of an equal evolutionary pressure towards intelligence across all populations or races despite vastly different environments is not only extremely unlikely; it's also an utterly fanatical postulation.

The environmental model for the differences in IQ is, in my opinion, deeply flawed. Why do innuits, despite having equal or less socio-economic status than blacks, have, by a quite significant margin, a greater IQ?

Why do we see these differences, to a tee, in Europe, America, etc.? Despite being, on a cultural level, extremely different, by the way, the assertion that there's no correlation between European admixture and IQ is totally wrong, an utter lie even.

Overall, I think it's unlikely that it's totally environmentally or genetically based, as it's, to be honest, extremely complex. It's most likely both, with a slight shift towards the hereditarian dimension, but there are environmental factors involved; it's hard to refute that.

Source: BSc Genetics - Cambridge Uni.

Pic rel, Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study,

>>15974200
Larry Sanger is a jealous ex-owner

>>15974577
sorry to burst your bubble, but wikipedia isn't the easy one-stop-shopping for perfect inarguable truth that you want it to be and it never will be that either.
you're just going to have to learn to think for yourself

>>15970724
>The p value rapidly decreases.
So, what's the combined value? Don't write shit like "half a standard deviation" if you want to highlight something being significant.

>>15975481
Show me something that's wrong on Wikipedia. Anything, any field. A physical formula, the birthplace of a medieval monk, or something politically important.

>>15975486
Wikipedia is straight-up denying entire fields of modern mainstream science whenever it hurts their feelings.
>https://quillette.com/2022/07/18/cognitive-distortions/

>>15968108
Wiki is ONLY good for things like math and perhaps hard sciences with no political implications like physics. Beyond that it's a leftist propaganda shilling machine

https://youtu.be/SKihbhYnVBA?si=LmJXB8qgnmIbUq7U
Relevant to this thread. It's only 1m20s, watch it you fags. Don't (You) me.

>>15968108
>despite the fact that greater variation in IQ scores exists within each ethnic group than between them
What does this actually mean? How do you quantify variation between groups in a way that's comparable to variance within a group?

>>15975584
It means nothing. It's a rehash of Lewontin's arguments against the biological basis of race, ie Lewontin's Fallacy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin%27s_Fallacy

>encourage race-mixing and create huge incentives for anyone with the tiniest amount of black ancestry to identify as black
>IQ gap starts shrinking
big think

>>15975602
Oh, I see. So they mean that the IQ-range within any given population is something like 0-200, and this range does not change much at all between groups. Yeah, that's retarded. You could use the same argument to claim that pretty much any two distributions are the same.

>>15975486
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

>>15968108
Hasn't basically all of the research into intelligence and IQ over the last decade supported the fact that environmental factors actually play a smaller role than previously thought? Every paper I've seen on the subject released in the last decade has basically come to the conclusion that genetics are by far the biggest factor and past adolescence almost nothing else matters.

>>15975615
>encourage race-mixing
that only happens in white countries.
it doesn't happen in israel

>>15975486
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_and_documentation_for_the_Holocaust

>>15974577
gotta love it when a wikipedia fanboy makes up bullshit claims about people to deflect from their criticisms.

>>15975485
its obvious its extremely high if the combined sample size is in the thousands or perhaps tens of thousands, who gives a fuck?

>>15977280
If it's obvious, do the clearly extremely easy math, buster.

>>15977722
if you think that it isn't provide some evidence

>>15978909
I'm not doing your work for you, moron. you made the claim. defend it or fuck off.

>>15969673
>>15968158
the biggest problem is we don't understand intelligence and we can't even agree on how to define "thought".

we know nothing about the process of thought itself. what is the genesis of a thought? how does one know what one does not know? what is consciousness? is a dog conscious? is any other human but yourself conscious?

we can't prove that niggers are stupid because we honestly can't say what mechanism (or lack thereof) is responsible for their stupidity. all we have are correlations between metrics only weakly correlated with what they purport to measure.

>>15978939
these are deep questions. a computer can use space to compensate for slow speed, or use speed to compensate for limited space.

if we can learn more about the structure of the brain, for example, how to physically detect and measure the physical location and size of working memory, etc. then can we start to define intelligence differences.

>>15969673
>above the neck
the thing is, even below the neck, we haven't evolved very differently. all things considered, a very small proportion of properties are different between races.

all races have the same basic structure, to the point where you can transplant organs (including blood) from one race to another, and even reproduce.

if whatever gives rise to consciousness and intelligence is as fundamental as what gives rise to, say, the ATP/ADP cycle, or RNA transcription, found in all races, then it follows that our intellectual abilities should also be similar.

the burden of proof of intelligence differences is therefore on whoever claims they exist.

>>15976787
>Irish independence is seen as a right-wing issue now
Wtf? All the leftists I know hate British colonialism and are pro-Irish.

>>15978981
That chud is probably just posting about those recent white supremacist riots that started because of some bullshit they made up anyway.

>>15978975
>reddit spacing
just leave.

>>15979282
>nigger-tier argumentation
fyi newfaggot, double spacing predates reddit.
i could go back to the 80's or earlier but i think the point is made.
now go neck yourself. hurry.

>>15978975
>all races have the same basic structure, to the point where you can transplant organs (including blood) from one race to another, .
https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/organ-donation-and-ethnicity/
>and even reproduce
So can grizzly bears and polar bears, wolves and coyotes, etc.

>>15979764
>I have sand in my pussy

>>15979764
>So can grizzly bears and polar bears, wolves and coyotes, etc.
negroes can reproduce with chimpanzees

https://guardian.ng/news/genetic-makeup-of-12-year-old-angolan-boy-in-dispute/

The genetic makeup of a 12-year-old Angolan, boy is now disputed by experts after his deceased mother allegedly told him he is the offspring of a human-chimpanzee love affair, reports the Gazeta Nacional.

The story made national headlines and has unleashed an outpour of generosity towards Augusto Dembo, 12, who now lives with his uncle and aunt in the capital city of Luanda.

Although the young boy has become an instant celebrity, many experts dispute the claim that he is the product of the s*xual intercourse between a human and a chimpanzee.

“S*xual relationships between humans and chimpanzees are fairly common in the region but this is the first time a pregnancy is officially reported, ”Dr. António Mendes of the Hospital Municipal do Luena doubted.

Angola President João Lourenço has already nicknamed the boy the “Angolan Miracle Child” as well as praising the young man as a “National treasure”, “a sign from God” and a “testament to the majesty and greatness of the Republic of Angola.”

>>15978975
>the thing is, even below the neck, we haven't evolved very differently. all things considered, a very small proportion of properties are different between races.

We are quite similar genetically; for all humans, 99.5% of their genetic profile is identical, but we also share 98.8% of our genetic profile with chimpanzees, so yeah. So, these differences, although "small," are still pretty significant. I don't believe that, despite being separated and developing in vastly different environments for thousands and thousands of years, we had an equal evolutionary pressure towards intelligence.. I just can't, sorry, but you're welcome to change my mind. Physiological differences, on a genetic level, don't necessarily reflect neurological or cognitive variance, but through nature, we have always seen them develop alongside each other. If physical differences come with mental differences, again, I just think it's profoundly unlikely. Homo sapiens would be exceptionally peculiar. I want to believe in the environmentalist model, but I just can't. There are certainly environmental aspects to this, though; no one is refuting that.

(1/2).

>>15980753
Answer these questions:

>Why hasn't the IQ gap changed in 30 or 40 years? It hasn't really changed since the civil rights era; it's been about 85 for a long time, despite all our efforts. The best Flynn could come up with is 4 points, and it's pretty murky, to be honest.

>Why is the innuit IQ higher than the black IQ by 6-7 points compared to their socio-economic status being less than or equal to blacks? (91) and (85).

>Why do we see, without tripitation, the same behaviour, crime rates, and IQ scores for blacks around the world despite the cultural variance? The environmentalist model is only really feasible for a small, single, and highly localised population. Are we all engaged in systematic racism? Again, it's unlikely for me.

>What about the g factor? The differences are at their greatest on g, and g is highly genetic. This has been shown consistently.

>The poorest whites score higher than the richest blacks on the SAT, consistently. Adjusting for SES doesn't seem to affect the IQ difference that much. It has also been shown that the richest whites are significantly more intelligent than the richest blacks. This has been shown for crime rates as well, but it's murky to me; I'm not certain, to be honest.

(2/3).

>>15980759
>Why did the Eurasian race pioneer modernity? Why couldn't Africans develop past stone spears and mud huts? Geography? What do you have to say?

>Why are crime rates and IQ scores not in proportion to their [blacks] social-economic status? Black men, who are 6–7% of the population, I believe, commit 60% of all violent crime and score the lowest on IQ tests. Again, this disparity isn't in proportion, and it should be, according to the environmentalists.

>The Minnesota trans-racial adoption study? The most damning evidence, possibly. Despite being raised by affluent white families, the black adopted children only had slightly higher IQ scores than the general black population.. It's environmental, but also highly genetically based!

>What about Ashkenazi Jewish IQ and East Asian IQ?

And I'm just barely scratching the surface.. There are numerous logical inconsistencies in the environmental or cultural model. The genetical model answers many, many more questions.

(3/3).

>>15980762
BSc Genetics - Cambridge, by the way.

>>15980738
That website is full of the dumbest shit I've ever seen. of course humans can't breed with chimps.

>>15978981
They hate British colonialism but love all non-European forms of colonialism. They are pro-Irish insofar as Irish means someone residing in Ireland.

>>15968162
What p-value are you talking about?

>>15980762
>Eurasian race

>>15975486
t. wikipedia AIDS was caused by colonialism and the black plague was caused by global warming

>>15975486

>>15968108
>wokepedia
Dont trust a single thing because its all leftist politics

>>15975485
I’ll give you the p-value when you give me the combined p-value for all evidence for the existence of the electron.

>>15968108
>evolution is totally real guise!!
>if you don't believe in evolution than you're an evil science denier
>what? evolution in humans above the neck?
>no way, thats not real.
>god created all men as equals

>>15982320
>neurological evolution in all specifically white-skinned genetic groups in the last 10000 years
You don't know how evolution works, dumbfuck

>>15982344
winter and the ice age = higher pressure for long-term planning, tight, well-functioning social groups, monogamy due to resource-limited mate choices and greater body size (Bergmann's Rule)
any more questions?

>>15982389
The same could be said for any extended period of resource shortage, like droughts or local extinctions of prey animals, leading to migrations being necessary. and long term planning, cohesive aocial groups, and monogamy, all have absolutely nothing to do with IQ in any sense. IQ tests measure things like pattern recognition, math, or spatial perception.

>>15982389
>any more questions?
Sure. First off, what about the Lebombo bone and the Ishango bone?
Also, why did civilisation start so suddenly in several places about 10000 years ago and not earlier? Many of these places had not been covered by ice during the ice age.

>>15981087

>>15975506
>Wiki is ONLY good for things like math and perhaps hard sciences with no political implications like physics.
only because leftists can't into hard science

Can't see a relevant thread for this but I guess this is close enough since it's controversial

David Stove's essay The Intellectual Capacity of Women
The commentary offers more depth on some points
https://www.wmbriggs.com/post/17124/

What's funny is that some australian uni banned their servers from hosting it

>>15968108
>>15968119
>>15968134
>>15968136
>>15968158
>>15968162
>>15969673
>>15970700
>>15970714
>>15970724
>>15971346
>>15973004
>>15973091
>>15973099
>>15973110
>>15974200
>>15974352
>>15974577
>>15975481
>>15975485
>>15975486
>>15975496
>>15975506
Here's a good rundown of what happened to Wokepedia:
https://quillette.com/2022/07/18/cognitive-distortions/

>>15968162
>t. doesn't know what a p-value is

>>15973099
>“having more IQ variation in a racial group than between racial groups”
It's not even an argument in the first place. It's just a stupidly high standard for caring about change, i.e. that you're only supposed to care about racial IQ differences if we had races of retards versus races of geniuses. Ofc, that sounds ridiculous. Even small but persistent differences in IQ are enough to cause impacts on a massive scale, and yet the differences are much larger than that.

>>15974577
You're a spiteful mutant.

>>15978939
>we can't prove that niggers are stupid because we honestly can't say what mechanism (or lack thereof) is responsible for their stupidity
Yes you can. You can absolutely prove something exists before you can explain how and why. MOST phenomena are like this.

>>15979043
>spiteful mutant freak starts whining and crying about "white supremacy"

>>15978981
All the leftists I know support flooding white countries with nonwhites (but they don't support flooding nonwhite countries with whites).

>>15983800
>long term planning, cohesive aocial groups, and monogamy, all have absolutely nothing to do with IQ in any sense
What a ridiculous article of faith you have lmao

>>15986310
how large are the noses on these "leftists" you know?

>>15987039
Some of their noses are quite small, they know how to disguise themselves

>>15968108
Point me to a biological mechanism which modulates intelligence, AND where nigs are genetically predisposed to have impairments in that mechanism.

I can point you to a mechanism for why jews at 1SD smarter than whites. Sphingolipids impact axonal branching, making synaptogenesis easier. Jews have several genetic variants which impact sphingolipids, and cause disease such as Tay-Sachs, Gauchers, Sandhoff. But for heterozygotes, they get the advantage without the disease.

>>15988031
Isn't Tay sachs thought to be the literal origin of the vampirism problem throughout history?

>>15988038
skimmed this
point me to a mechanism or don't reply to me
kill yourself

>>15988031
jews aren't smart tho

>>15988043
ashkenazi jews are 1SD above whites. The rest of the jews are subhuman sandniggers. Only 31% of israel is ashkenazi, the rest drag the average down

>>15988047
> ashkenazi jews are 1SD above whites

That's extreme selection bias and we can find subsets of whites and asians that have equal or higher IQs than ashkenazi's. It's also highly debated whether ashkenazi's are even jews.

>>15980762
If we were to believe this map, then US Jews should be significantly higher than Ashkenazi Jews in Israel. How can this make sense?
The map is full of dubious figures and major changes across borders, like UK and Ireland.

>>15988047
>ashkenazi jews are 1SD above whites
no they aren't, jews are low iq.

>>15988082
this
jews are not smart

>>15988053
ashkenazis aren't smart, thats just a meme

>>15969673
>le niggers...
>evolved to be le dumb!
yawn

>>15990379
it's called chattel slavery, chud. 300 years of selective pressures wreaked havoc on the POC genome. we need reparations, preferably CRISPR treatments, but Rice Krispies treats will be okay too

>>15990379
The nigger itself never had any pressure to adapt and change as Africa doesn't have harsh winters that require planning and forward thinking to survive and could coast just by loitering. The nigger never evolved, it didn't have any need to

>>15979680
Statistically, you far less likely to be an oldfag who lived through the times when such spacing was in no way an indicator of being a redditor, which didn't even exist at the time(and wasn't a shithole for quite some time since being made), and to also not care about sharing such a thing today with an objectively negative elements that come here from reddit.
As for such spacing being indicative of being a tourist from reddit, it has a enough credibility, considering the way reddit formats your post when you press enter.
You are a faggot, and in case you are one of those rare unicorns, you are still a fag.

You can always tell when something is true when the answer to the question isn't allowed to be verified.

>>15990811
>You don't remember a time before this 2015 meme, kiddo

>>15990740
CRISPR treatments as reparations to turn all blacks into white people?

>>15974577
>Larry Sanger is a jealous ex-owner

>>15988047
Point me to a biological mechanism which modulates intelligence, AND where non-Ashkenazi Jews are genetically predisposed to have impairments in that mechanism.
Israel's average IQ can't be pulled below that of British average without such a mechanism.

>>15986295

Also, nobody cares about the exceptions. The resentment of the woke fascists to people smarter than them is entirely based off group averages. They don't care about individual, low-functioning white autistics or individual black engineers, or said examples would've already dampened their psychopathy.

It's a particularly wivked mind virus. Wider acceptance of HBD is the only hope at biding back this plague.

>>15986310

Subsaharan Africa would benefit tremendously from more whites. They'd just be robbed, lynched, and expelled en masse within ten years for making too much money and being too good at the smart-people jobs for the locals liking.

>>15990740

Nobody aside from literal downies, and the comparably disabled, is gonna use gene therapy to improve their IQs. It's an extremely lengthy and expensive treatment no matter what you wanna do with it. And painful. Chemo is a mandatory part of any current treatment.

That said, most people don't need genius IQs. Most people being of averagebintelligence at best is only a problem when you actively punish anything and anybody who tries to reward objective measures of intelligence. Unfortunately, this is literally the exact way in which the modern Anglosphere, especially North America, IS organized.

>>15986286
good read, thanks

>>15986286
From this auatralian online magazine Quillette, and that australian social issues tv show Insight (where the memes of the blonde personal trainer dude staring at the obese lady Kelli Jean Drinkwater) comes from, australian media seems to have the strongest moderate voice in the anglosphere. Fucking why

>>15991118
not if you kill all the Jews first

>>15991118
sounds like some weimar shit
>>15992552
white people are the jews in this scenario