/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15968413
Bezos is so pathetic

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/01/daily-telescope-a-galactic-neighborhood-that-isnt/

>>15968413
not FOR FLIGHT

https://spacenews.com/spacex-targets-february-for-third-starship-test-flight/

>>15968423
Berger is very cool

Ouroborous-3

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/01/after-its-impressive-first-flight-heres-whats-next-for-the-vulcan-rocket/

>>15968430
Good lord

>>15968435
>ULA shilling
Must be getting paid, dont hate the player. Hope he gets some money for a big telescope out of it

>>15968423
>there are dozens of galaxy spanning civilizations in the is one pic
>we'll never meet any of them
>they're laughing at us too

>>15968438
>Eric Berger is shilling for ULA now
Reusabros - we kneel

>>15968435
> In addition to the Vulcan launches, ULA plans to launch its final Delta IV Heavy rocket this year, as well as nine Atlas missions. That's a total of 16 launches, which would represent a significant step up from its total of just three in 2023. As for next year, the company's goal is for a total of 28 Atlas and Vulcan launches.

>>15968457
>which would represent a significant step up from its total of just three in 2023
kek

https://spacenews.com/chinas-change-6-probe-arrives-at-spaceport-for-first-ever-lunar-far-side-sample-mission/

> He's visibly aroused because of Vulcan.

https://twitter.com/DrPhiltill/status/1745094561402155362

>>15968482

https://twitter.com/AndyLapsa/status/1745099701450633515

Stoke founder and CEO

https://twitter.com/planetdeimos/status/1745100333401981352

>>15968493
this is probably the pic from where OP pic is cropped

way to ruin my excitement blorgin, fucking posers, years and all they have is a slightly prettier mockup than before.

What is the purpose of it

>>15968507
'Test article'

>>15968423
do you think there is someone in another galaxy wasting their time on an image board just like us?

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1745174665809818030

This year's launch manifest for the Vulcan Death rocket. After it destroys Dream Chaser, just wite out the rest of the year:

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/01/after-its-impressive-first-flight-heres-whats-next-for-the-vulcan-rocket/

>>15968507
A test article that lets BO go through the motions of a launch to train staff and find out if they need to change things.

>>15968523
https://www.starlink.com/updates

whats it for if not for flight? What does a rocket stage do other than fly?

>>15968532
testing the operations like moving it around

>>15968482
Oh no he's retarded

>>15968485
typical big government old space thinking
why not leave the rocket there until it can be refilled and flown back

>>15968488
Fuck this guy lmao. Does he want a medal for copying everyone else? Newsflash, if you're 10 years late to the party none of that shit matters. Doesnt matter if you chose an architecture 10 years ago. You've achieved nothing

>>15968526
>Conclusively proven that Vulcan didn't damage the payload
>Astrobotic comes out and says so
>ULA employees shit posting here that it wasn't Vulcan
>Still coping that Vulcan launched successfully before Starship
It's getting embarrassing desu

>>15968426
>Lakiesha Hawkins, assistant deputy associate administrator
We're reaching India levels of bullshit job titles here

>>15968532
It can also just be a tanking test

>>15968551
I wonder what the org chart looks like lmao

>>15968554
Brown all the way down

>>15968548
Is Starship in the room with you right now?

>>15968555
I was thinking more about how complicated it is and how much middle management there is
deputy associate assistant admin sounds pretty bad

>>15968423
Cool to think that despite the vastness of the universe, the only place life has ever existed is right here <3

>>15968569
>i transheart <3 emoticon

>>15968523
https://twitter.com/Gwynne_Shotwell/status/1745179822186483884

>>15968571
Trans people don't exist, only self-hating larpers

https://twitter.com/mhaskellphoto/status/1745113469299396736

video

>>15968561
it's mostly at the bottom of the gulf

>>15968580
Its the same one that we saw years ago

LMAO. They work so slow

>>15968583
at least this is proof that a working article wont corrode over time i guess?

>>15968584
Its been kept inside clean room, they better hope its corrosion proof lmao.

>>15968576
phones are a dying technology. everyone will be replacing them with XR headsets soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqv7NedI0oI

The great filter is real.

>>15968605
secret valve thread

>>15968603

>>15968605
>gate valve
I would think they'd use needle valves but idk I do water

>>15968618
Does any have a P&ID for a rocket laying around?

>>15968583
Gradatim ferociter

>>15968629
Found one and lmao this one does use gate valves

>>15968603
Did they put some aerospace grade webcam on a rocket?

>>15968659
Vulcan still uses the old, old cameras & video telemetry system that Atlas used. It's garbage.

>>15968548
>ULA fanboys pretend to be employees to save face after their favourite rocket's first payload dies to shaken baby syndrome
>deflects to starship, a much more ambitious program, to hide the embarrassment.
wew lad

>>15968695
>Astrobotic says it wasn't Vulcan
>ULA says it wasn't Vulcan
>upcoming investigation will find it wasn't Vulcan
>their schematics for the probe show a flaw that would cause this exact problem regardless of launch vehicle

consider meds schizo

>1,400 m/s acceleration despite only a bit over half the propellant burning
>Probably had about 3 km/s of dV had it worked well, even more than a V2


Jesus J.J.Barré was a madman.
Cryogenic rocket (Gasoil-LOX) that reached 60 km high in 1945, made basically by himself, first with a shoestring budget under Vichy and then clandestinely in Algeria, this was basically a WAC Corporal, earlier, and made by a single guy in France.

Shame he was a loner who couldn't work with large teams and his next rocket was a disaster.

>>15968714

The Vulcan FUDposting is cringe.
The Starship derangement syndrome is also cringe.
Bunch of losers

>>15968714
He’s not discussed a lot, but yeah he’s based

>>15968721
Your jewish deception doesnt work here Tory. There is no playing both sides

>>15968721
Vulcan was obsolete 5 years ago, plain and simple
it seems to work fine enough but ULA won't survive long term

Is there a list of mothballed nasa projects? Like completed probes and shit that are just siting in a warehouse?

Where's the faggot on here that said payload fairing sep fucked up the lander, you can see it does nothing of the sort in the video here, get fucked lol

https://youtu.be/Pqv7NedI0oI?t=327

>The National Research Council recently reported that U.S. and Russian systems on ISS demonstrate rates of hardware failures that would be unsustainable on a Mars mission
Quote is from circa 2015. But having heard how bad ISS maintenance currently is (even worse than it was eight years ago)—how the hell do we expect to get to Mars soon?? The ISS was pretty dope in 1998, but now it’s inarguably a shitcan. Hardware headed to Mars, for human use, will need BEEFY life support + long duration dependability. We don’t really have that right now.
Source of quote below:
https://spacenews.com/op-ed-mars-for-only-1-5-trillion/

>>15968811
Starship means you can send a LOT of new hardware every 2 years.
Eventually mars will be self sustainable, in along time, transition between the two will be hard,but for the medium term the above applies.

>>15968811
Sell Alaska and use the money to build a Mars cycler

>>15968811
Ill tell you how, without fucking NASA breathing down SpaceX's neck on every little fucking thing. Mars is supposed to be a SpaceX only deal in the beginning and that means it will be an operation more like Boca Chica right now where its test and fail with all the money they have until they get it working.

When the journalists contradicts the headline deep inside the article. Kek.

>Vulcan rocket's debut brings long-awaited challenge to SpaceX dominance

https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/vulcan-rockets-debut-brings-long-awaited-challenge-spacex-dominance-2024-01-10/

>The starting price for a Vulcan launch is roughly $110 million, half that of its predecessor Atlas V, which anchored ULA's dominance for U.S. national security satellite launches since ULA's 2006 formation. SpaceX's reusable Falcon 9 is pegged at roughly $62 million per launch, but sometimes more for Pentagon missions.

>>15968413
Nice water tower, Jeff!

The snake was caught lying, again!

Valve post
https://twitter.com/667e11/status/1745134834052399258

>>15968828
I mean it is a challenge
Just a weak one and only relevant for national security pretty much and maybe some autism probes

>>15968832
Performance off, but ball park. Understandable since proprietary. Doesn’t quite understand low energy vs high or their architectures. Did not avail large set of public pricing on NSSL P2. Vulcan substantially cheaper, with > than 30% price advantage in high energy:
Solid 6/10

>>15968430
ah the memories

muh high energy muh high energy

muh low energy muh low energy

>>15968832
Not sure why they had to do this graphic this way when >>15966426 had it pretty well

>>15968832
Single launch Reusable starship does get 0 tons to GTO, and even an expendable unmoddified starship is below expendable FH

>>15968811
by having way more redundancy and being much more competent, much greater iteration speed, a mission to make it self-sustaining, people in charge that are not afraid to make radical changes swiftly if it makes sense
the ISS is a rusting shitbox kept alive by the fear of embarrassment existing only as a legacy from the space shuttle and originally built so the space shuttle would have something to do

>>15968832
lol, why not show expendable modes? hmmm

>>15968426
>spacenews.com
The commentators there remind me of some local newspaper commebt section, boomers yelling at clouds and bitching about nuspace

>>15968841
bullshit

>>15968879
SLS delenda est

>>15968879
That's still much better than soiboys at arstechnica.

>>15968841

>>15968889
Theres literally only Berger you fucking pansy he's the only one with good insider info and a proven track record dont give him shit.

>>15968895
Take youre redditnigger meme and gtfo

>>15968896
hes talking about the soiboi commenters with EDS in his articles

>>15968841
"High energy" is still a load of marketing nonsense.
>Because we use light weight propellants with a high specific impulse, our upper stage has a lot of delta-V relative to its stage mass as long as the payload isn't too heavy.

>>15968841
>Performance off, but ball park

Falcon Heavy has literally done 9+ tons direct to GEO.

>>15968926
when? you sure it wasnt gto?

So really how much did the new toilet on the iss cost? forget the actual mission to get it up there, just the on the ground costs.

>>15968926
>>15968929
Concur, Echostar-24 was a geostationary transfer orbit, rather than direct to GEO:
>35,504 km by 8,001 km, with an inclination of 10.39°

>>15968896
Berger seems to have mild EDS but is able to keep it entirely away from his articles
and I think he dislikes old space even more

>>15968943
He's definitely not a fan of Elon's Twitter antics, which shows that he has critical thinking skills, but he definitely hates oldspace so much he goes too far in sucking newspace and especially SpaceX's cock. There's a reason he has his own tier in that chart, he's got good sources but he definitely has his biases that sometimes make him write hilariously bad stuff.

>>15968926
Falcon Heavy has demonstrated ~4 tons direct to GEO with USSF-44 and other direct to GEO payloads haven't been demonstrated. In this case, it seems ULA's advertising is "what the competitors (SpaceX) have actually done vs what our rocket can do on paper"

https://twitter.com/astrobotic/status/1745227814452752446
> Update #11 for Peregrine Mission One:

>>15968966

>>15968963
I think that is being short sighted, the "twitter antics" are ultimately going to benefit SpaceX but I guess that remains to be seen still and debating it is kind of boring

>>15968964
They then take that "what the competition has demonstrated" and downgrade the capabilities further to say that their highest energy mission is their upper limit for any BEO launches. It's worth a community note at the very least.

https://twitter.com/longmier/status/1745191132727070837

>>15968964
And the "on paper" performance of a VC6 is not ~4x what FH has demonstrated.

https://twitter.com/sara_spangelo/status/1745175119109214420

>>15968841
https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1745204411754742199

lol it was an actual tweet from Tory
was Vulcan actually demonstrably cheaper than FH? is that public information?

https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1745177094055993480

an official photo from BO

>>15969003

>>15969003
Why do all their employees have such low energy

>>15969006

>>15969002
>was Vulcan actually demonstrably cheaper than FH? is that public information?
It's the opposite. Tory is lying again.

>>15969002
Technically yes, IIRC it was in the first few launches that were awarded for the latest NSSL contract or whichever it was. Now people usually argue that that includes cost for the FH VIF that wouldn't be repeated, but the impact of that we can't know for sure and if you look exclusively at those awards, Vulcan was cheaper.

>>15969011
>Where Vulcan lost b/c it wasn't performant enough
High energy bros...

>>15968477
Same desu

>>15969012
but looking exclusively at those is very dishonest
kind of had the impression Tory lying was a meme but what the fuck, this is pretty much a bald faced lie lol

>>15969002
>>15968841
>>15968832
https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1745197000126022135

replying to everday astronaut video

>>15969020

>>15969020
>here's some disinformation for you

>>15969021

>>15969027

>>15969020
This nigga

>>15969029

>>15969018
I like Tory but every once in a while he'll come out with one of these. Really hope once they're bought he can stop with that shit because it's retarded. Elon gets away with his SpaceX lies because they're generally just muh aspirational statements about timelines even if they're clearly so impossible they don't even get the "it's just employee motivation bro" benefit, but shit like this is just stupid. The worst thing is that if they made the numbers consistent with >>15969021 it'd actually be fine because except for disregarding refueling that one roughly checks out.

>>15969032
>>15969029
>>15969027
>>15969021
>>15969020
SO MUCH ENERGY!!!1

>>15969012
The Elon haters also don't want to acknowledge the difference in SpaceX's pricing for NSSL vs. commercial launches, because that would mean admitting that SpaceX is price matching ULA.

Can someone explain to me how a booster optimized for flyback would compare to a booster designed for the opposite? Seems that when you turn the knobs of system architecture in one way or another the rocket gets "better" for one mission or another. Does SpaceX have some kind of secret sauce that makes it good at both missions?

>>15969045
Figure it out yourself, Chang

>>15969045
Dumb chink

>>15968998
Huh, yeah, they're lying about Vulcan's GTO performance and showing it's significantly higher than the actually claimed performance, even with hypothetical future upgrades.

>>15969044
Or that it has to expend more booster cores to hit the USG missions, driving the cost up.

>>15969037
It's in the same league as the "extremely complex & high risk" salt that Blue Origin started spilling after they lost the first HLS competition.

That being said, Blue does seem to be in the lead to buy ULA so "high energy & very accurate" posting might not stop even after the purchase.

i'm gonna cringe so hard i will turn inside out

https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1745232588971626698

high energy = high price

>>15969065
I guess the only argument then is that the public payload user manual isn't the exact science that it's being used for here (or is out of date)

>>15969062
https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1745246204118925711

>>15969032
What's GTO Enhanced? An extra burn to raise perigee or something, basically leveraging surplus launcher capability to allow a smaller kick stage? Or is it a higher apogee to get to GEO faster, at the expense of needing a larger kick stage?

The bars make it seem more like the first.

>>15969065
Can you imagine being overanalyzed and harassed by bored autists using OSINT "data" all day as the CEO when you have all the actual data but can't post any of it? What a nightmare of a job that must be

>>15969089
calling the handbook OSINT data with quotation marks is quite the reach

>>15969093
>>15969089
or are you saying that ULA doesn't give out accurate information and to get that you would have to call them and talk about some specific payload and orbit? I guess that could be the case
but if they do that, their propaganda marketing material is even more suspect and yet Tory Bruno keeps posting those as some kind of debunking material
there is a disconnect here

https://twitter.com/KenKirtland17/status/1745221701841965447

lol

>>15969093
>>15969105
It's a public facing user manual. They're estimates at best. I'm sure that mission planning is more complicated than some table cooked up in the marketing department. These missions take years to plan with complex negotiations

the PE firm that is bidding for ULA is getting scammed lmao

https://twitter.com/waynehale/status/1745221447708995879

https://waynehale.wordpress.com/2024/01/10/the-most-important-thing/

Most important thing isn't safety as NASA claims over and over again. Its to go and stuff

>>15969110
>complex negotiations
lol, how is that going to affect the possible performance? The performance is what it is for a specific mass in a specific orbit, it shouldn't matter what the payload actually is or who the customer is

>>15969117

>>15969122

>>15969029

>>15969122
>>15969117
>guy who killed 14 people says safety isn't the most important thing
Usually I would agree but kek

>>15969127
What they don't mention is that MEO is a more expensive orbit to get to than a geostationary transfer orbit. Yet another douchey trick in the original chart.

>>15969119
Yes I am sure that there is nothing more complicated to mission design than orbit, payload weight, and cost.

https://twitter.com/KenKirtland17/status/1745257668854366561/

LMAO fixed

>>15969127
F9 and FH ranges would be cool to see too

>>15969144
Put ya clofez on

>>15969130
the fact only 14 died is a crime
we should be launching so often and recklessly that someone dies once per day on average AT LEAST

>>15969137
lol
performance/cost to these orbits on a logarithmic scale would be nice

>>15969149
log scale sucks

>>15969149
Log scale is for cowards.

>>15969151
log scale would be much clearer in this case

>>15969021
>I'm making a callout post on my X dot com. Elon Musk, you got a small dick, it's the size of this walnut except way smaller. And guess what? Here's what my dong looks like: BWOWH That's right baby. All energy, no refueling, no RTLS. Look at that it looks like two balls and a bong.

Imagine expending 747 after every flight

>>15969137

>>15969021
>staging altitude
Lol, I like ULA but they do need to be called out for this blatant marketing bullshit that has nothing to do with anything.
>Saturn V staged at 68km with a peak altitude of 110km
>clearly this show Vulcan can get more to GTO

So, who's ready for Chinese Vega super-heavy?

>>15969224
it's the Chinastoga!

>>15969224
>Launch Platform
>Dongfang Hangtiangang

Let's cool it with making up fake, racist names for Chinese things.

>a literal giant rock with infinite building materials
remind me why is it again we gave up on it?!

>>15969160
>t. Elon 2004 AD
Elon 2024 AD: Imagine flying in a 747 built and flown by DIE

>>15969137
He's a chart from the decadal planetary sciences committee meeting back in 2021. There's no C3 where Vulcan outperforms Falcon Heavy. I wouldn't be surprised if the VC6 ended up being more expensive anyway on top of all that.

>>15969235
>7 year average ruler term in democracies
>no long term planning
We need to force everyone from all parties to agree to 10, 20, 50 and 100 year plans and failing to follow the plan results in the opposition taking power for a minimum of 5 years before the next election is held.

>>15969224

>>15969242
Universal suffrage capped at 1 vote is completely retarded; a hacked together system of convenience. Successful offworld colonies will only be sustainable with a shareholder model.

>>15969247
>shareholder model
Kek, 10 guys now control the "democracy" and funnily enough they all agree there should be no capital gains tax and income tax should be capped at $50k and used to give them handouts.

>>15969250
And the alternative where they pull strings to dupe women and minorities into voting for dumb shit? Yeah, that's working real swell. Every company on the planet freely chose to adopt that model to great effect.

>>15969224
These low effort chinese rocket scam names never get old

>>15969250
yes? then people will move away and they won't have any workers

>>15969251
The real solution is
>political lies are illegal with prison time
>political donations are illegal with tax dollars used to fund all campaigning
>news outlets are forced by law to accurately report immigration, crime, tax, debt and national spending rates before each election
The biggest issue is the people that decide the rulers are giving either no information or false information about the state of the nation.

>>15969256
So your solution is instead of the people being able to vote out people they don't like they have to hope the rulers they can't vote out don't ban emigration and enslave them?

>>15969252
Whoever is translating Chinese spaceflight names seems to consistently pick the worst of any available options. Yinli-1 sounds a lot better than Gravity-1 or Gravitation-1. We could have had Blue Arrow Aerospace Corporation but got stuck with "Landspace" instead. Tianbing Technology is a bit more graceful than the literal "Invincible Army Technology Co," but for some reason they decided to go with "Space Pioneer."

https://youtu.be/bQWZZ_fD50o
https://arxiv.org/abs/2312.09329
>Potential Perturbation of the Ionosphere by Megaconstellations and Corresponding Artificial Re-entry Plasma Dust
>Elon Musk is "going to kill us all with satellite debris"
This is bad. REAL bad

>>15969224
Will this be the first orbital launch from the sea?

>>15969261
you are talking about a colony that the "shareholders" paid for in the first place
workers moving in and democratizing it to shit is not a good idea
democracy leads to people voting all the cash to themselves eventually and democracy won't stop people from voting to ban emigration and enslaving a portion of the people (look at communist countries for instance, soviet union banned emigration)

>>15969269
The USSR wasn't a democracy.

>>15969267
seems like speculation and its based on there being 1 million satellites lel

>>15969268
Long March 11 has launched five times from a Yellow Sea barge since 2019. Ceres-1 made its first sea-launch last September.

>>15969246
So, all four outer solids ignite successfully or just three?

>>15969267
every time every single god damn time

>>15969274
What do you call 1 million satellites?

A good start.

Any news on the schizodrive? Is it schizover?

>>15969281
Their experiment slot opens in a few days if the schedule is still the same as before the holidays.

>>15969275
oh cool

>>15968811
ISS is in space, surrounded by vacuum. A Mars base will be on the ground, surrounded by raw materials and atmosphere (a bit thin but it's still atmosphere). Much easier

>>15969285
Here's the one from September. They don't seem to park the boat very far offshore so there should be some good photos from this launch.

>>15968811
Space is just— it's just hard OK????

Digging tunnels with diverted Starship static fires

>>15968799
Can't ULA afford better cameras? This shit looks so crusty it feels like I'm watching a vhs tape

>>15969288
China rules the seas

>>15969275
Is it called the yellow sea because ching chongs live next to it? because yellow skin? hate to say it but china is extremely strong for naming it that

>>15969298
>we could launch from anywhere
>but we're going to launch within catastrophe distance of the shore so we can get more shares on WeChat

If the wrong one of Gravity's boosters decides not to light and the rocket starts going sideways they better hope they have a good FTS.

>>15969297
ULA spends their money on RND so their rockets don't explode on their first and second test flight lol

>>15969304
the rockets exploding is part of the RND

https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1744872617511723109

>>15969298
>The pirates of the Caribbean and the search for the raptors
sounds kino

https://twitter.com/CosmicalChief/status/1744952742047580372

https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1744884807459308012

>>15969312
building that close to the water should be illegal lmao...

>>15969313
The water there is a transient pool.

>>15968435
>"There is no indication that the propulsion anomaly occurred as a result of the launch,"
so what caused it then?

>>15969331
valve misbehavior. valves don't need a reason

>>15969331
Astrobotics hypothesis is that valve between the helium pressurant and oxidizer failed to reseal properly after initialization which lead to a pressure spike and subsequent rupture >>15966735

While we wait, there was also (maybe?) a Ceres-1 launch from Jiuquan.

>>15969136
Correct

https://live.bilibili.com/21704811
And if you want to brave the Chinese internet, we actually have a livestream
T-50:00

>>15969376
>will broadcast the first flight test of the Dongfang Space Gravity One (Yaoyi) launch vehicle through Unicom 5G live broadcast at China's only maritime launch home port, Dongfang Spaceport, to showcase the development of China's commercial aerospace industry.The live broadcast will also invite rocket technology experts to explain the technology and significance behind the world's largest solid launch vehicle.Let us witness together that the world's largest solid launch vehicle has taken off in China!

>>15969331
Valve Uncertainty Principle

>>15969340
psyche! it was a KZ-1A all along!

>>15969381
That's four Kuaizhou launches in the last 16 days. I know it's only 300 kg of payload but that's pretty impressive cadence.

>>15969376
Well, they've certainly chosen a very picturesque day for their maiden launch
T-15:00

>>15969376
is Clear going to cover this launch?

>>15969407
I don't think so? I wish she would. A youtube restream would probably be more stable

>>15969405
>file name

T-1m

>>15969405
>filename
only in the north

lagged just at liftoff, kind of laggy stream overall

>>15969376
what a shitshow of a livestream

>>15969418
stubby

>>15969421
>>15969423
We've all seen Arianespace do worse with much higher production budgets. I think they were trying to run their stream through some kind of sponsored 5G connection

Stupid american pigdogs cant do that. China #1 global hegemony

>it worked
>chink newspace company make Soyuz class launcher in 3 years from founding
Total humiliation

>>15969458
Buying existing solid rocket motors off the CASC and mashing them together expedites things a fair bit.

>>15969459
>fresh American cope

>Company founded in 2020s
>All solid rocket
>Sea launch
>Debris flying everywhere
>It fucking works

>>15969461
Not really cope, the rocket just legitimately doesn't seem like much. Good for them getting it to work the first try and it's a neat configuration that has a lot of Kerbal-esque fun quality to it, it's just probably not going to be an impactful launch vehicle in the history of rocketry.

>>15968598
And there's absolutely no hardware crossover there, right?
Not that those headsets are going to take over anytime soon.

>>15969041
When all you do is build anemic rockets, you need high energy.
Also, SRBs are the equivalent of training wheels.

>>15969464
Literal cope
Americans could have made the same thing for the past 40 years by buying SRB and that never happened
Plus the stages are definitely not identical and off the shelf and tailor made for the rocket

>>15969472
Mostly because there aren't very many good reasons to use solid fuel rockets.

Ovzon 3, which launched on a Falcon 9, is the first thing in orbit besides the ISS to use Roll-Out Solar Arrays. Personally I'm a huge fan of ROSAs because they unfurl more reliably than origami panels and should be able to re-furl for a spacecraft reentering so they don't have to be jettisoned. Space sails, basically.

https://spacenews.com/ovzon-3-successfully-deploys-solar-arrays-in-geostationary-orbit/

>>15969478
>what is conestoga
Buying solids was the baseline for private launchers for 1980-2015

>>15969498
Every last one of them is in the dustbin of history for good reasons.

>>15969513
>chinese private companies can launch with SRB's without issue
>American private companies failed every single time
lmao okay nice cope

>>15969513
None of them even got to orbit (except Pegasus, but that was dubiously private)

Meanwhile this launcher has more thrust than a base Vulcan and is quite literally only meant to be investor bait for the development of their falcon 9 copy

Would it be annoying to play and sing to music while I jog in the Starship en route to Mars for 7 months? Im good at singing but still, I specifically exercise at night in the college gym so nobody is annoyed

>>15969529
>>15969530
Landspace already has a methalox rocket flying successfully, and a private liquid fuel launch vehicle is a much more important and impressive capability to bring to the table. I'm not really sure what value these solid fuel startups are bringing to the table, unless China's just that desperate for additional launch capacity to compensate for the limits of the Long March family, and it doesn't really seem like they are.

>>15969531
>7 months
imagine the smell

>>15969488
We were robbed of the kino solar panel deployment technology

>>15969554
the Chinese development strategy recently has been to give lots of R&D knowledge and support to anyone willing to start a company and then let them duke it out
Excess launch capacity will lead to a few bankruptcies or consolidations in the future but that's a much smaller risk compared to not having enough. I also don't believe they're anywhere near market saturation

>>15969529
NTA, but the failure of shit like Conestoga eventually gave way to SpaceX and all of its imitators, so that seems like a pretty damn good outcome for American spaceflight to me. If Conestoga had actually succeeded, I'm not sure what effect that would have had on future private rocket development.

Gravity-1 first launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13e35XZln1o

Kuaizhou-1A launches Tianxing-1-02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Kmv0ZKQR4

>>15969580
cool lil chode :3

>>15969580
*insert small chinese dick rocket joke here*

Einstein Probe launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaz7i3kEE2A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxR0ElncYw

>SRB can't be scale and reusable
>SRB can't be scale and reusable
>SRB can't be scale and reusable
>SRB can't be scale and reusable
>SRB can't be scale and reusable
and fuck china

https://twitter.com/IV_Musketeer/status/1745258397925056585
reminder that could be your neighbor

>>15969635
Ow.

>>15969632
Loved this post

Honest question...what will be the cope when Starship explodes for a third time and the Elon Mars Mission approaches 10 years behind schedule? At what stage to Elon Cultists just start drinking tainted Flavor Aid to ascend to the cosmos and commune with aliens? After the fourth explosion?

>>15969768
Bit of a leading question there, chap. Say, have you ever seen the ocean? It's of a bit of a large size as far as bodies of water go.

>>15969146
unironically.
Our civilization will only enter the sapace age when more people die in space operations than die in earther military conflicts.

>>15969768
Cry into their 1km mega telescopes that btfoes bigbangers

>took a few shitty gas generator engines and dabbed on the global launch industry
you have to admit that's a boss move

>>15969768
I guess the 'cope' will be along the lines of Yeah well we can blow up five more and still be cheaper than a single flight of SLS

>>15968507
suborbital carnival rides just weren't gradatim enough

>>15968555
>>15968554
>>15968551
my apologies to anyone with eyes

>>15969881
But enough about Ariane 4

>>15969250
>let women and niggers vote
>government ruins everything
your "nightmare scenario" is significantly better than real life right now

>>15969768
Starship in a nutshell

>>15969258
>The real solution is
>>political lies are illegal with prison time
based retard not understanding that someone needs to judge that

>11 days into 2024
>only 3 falcon launches
it's over isn't it

>>15969021
fixed that for you again

Couple of red flags with Starship:
>if it was so successful why are long time spacex employees (mueller etc) leaving when they're about to achieve the crown jewel of aerospace?
>elon's raptor comments
>but perhaps the most serious issue that no one talks about is that spacex doesn't really attract senior managers and engineers, in fact most grads do a gig there and then trnasition into 'oldpsace' companies

>>15969956
I think it's pretty simple.
Working elsewhere is easier, not to mention you get paid the same or even more.

why the fucking fuck do people keep making more, still wrong kits of the shittle or saturn V or the ISS
why is there NO FUCKING INJECTION MOULDED FALCON AT ALL

>>15968413
Ok, maybe spacex will succeed and it will be possible to mass produce starships and that they will be able to send payloads into orbit for a price of 10 dollars per kg, what now? Do we even have the production capacities to mass produce satellites, space probes, lunar and marsian infastrucure elements? Are there any plans to mass produce those things too?

>>15969966
https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-spacex-falcon-9-model-kit-41672
Just print your own, all the official offerings are stupid expensive. I found a model rocket done up like a Falcon 9 and the fuckers wanted over $100 for it, nigger its a cardboard tube and a chute get fucked

People who want Starship to fail are traitors to humanity.

>>15969956
>if it was so successful why are long time spacex employees (mueller etc) leaving when they're about to achieve the crown jewel of aerospace?
Mueller left because he was tired and no longer did anything. By his own admittance he hadn't worked on Raptor in quite a long time except to consult.
>Elon's Raptor comments
Who cares? Factory. Elon's being a doomer, this is nothing new. He's said that SpaceX is on the verge of bankruptcy a dozen times now despite that not being the case to any sane person.
>attracting senior managers and engineers
Good, fuck 'em. Why do you need outside retards when you can hire young and then promote from within? I know a guy who has been working at SpaceX for literally 12 years now and he's a team lead in their engineering department. There's no reason to give these worthless greybeards fucking golden parachutes to come work at SpaceX knowing full well they're going to wash out in a few years because of the workload.

>>15969981
the least zealous muskrat

>>15969987
I can't fucking stand Musk, but if Starship can get going then it will be a quantum leap in space fairing capability

>>15969956
>doesn't really attract senior managers and engineers
Like Gerstenmaier or Lueders?

>>15969981
Yeah it's one thing to not think the rocket will work, it's another thing entirely to want it to fail

>>15969990
how? you need 20 launches to refuel it just to go to the moon

>>15969997
The payload to LEO alone is a game changer

>>15969999
Yea, jews bombing terrorists from orbit.

>>15969997
you mean 10 + or - 1 or 2

Has the memedrive sat still not done anything?

>>15969990
Emphasis on capability
You’ll need 10 years for the DoD to adapt, and another 10 years for the free market to adapt, and finally 10 additional years for NASA to adapt

>>15970013
The industry is only JUST realizing the potential of Falcon 9, let alone Starship

>>15969768
As long at it gets farther and explodes for a new reason, that is progress
If the iteration speed slows down, it starts to explode for reasons that should have been solved and its like the 6th one I would start to get a bit worried

The improvement from IFT1 to IFT2 were pretty great, do you not understand how quickly that happened compared to the rest of the industry? Just months between the launches

>>15969888
That doesnt even make any sense, you are confusing dev with operations
Obviously dueing actual operations exploding rockets is very bad, though you can have dev after the main mission like with F9 landing attempts
It has been said ad nauseaum, but do you not understand how many failed landings they had before they started to get it right
And see where the programme is now

>>15969978
The mass production capability will happen
And yes, spacex is already mass producing starlinks

https://twitter.com/astrobotic/status/1745460345207181624

>(1/2) Update #12 for Peregrine Mission One:

>>15970033
https://twitter.com/astrobotic/status/1745460455030829524

>(2/2) Update #12 for Peregrine Mission One:

>>15970035

>>15970038
They're calling those bottle caps wheels?

>>15970038
>>15970040
This looks like something that belongs on robot wars, not the moon.

>>15970049
>>15970040
What's the issue?

>>15970049
looks pretty awesome
was gonna ask how does it steer but it'll be differential
it's apparently slow as fuck though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chfWqvMknyQ

>>15970040
>>15970049
those "bottle caps" are going to last the next ten thousand years without significant degradation. I think you owe the engineers an apology

>>15970056
They look better than Curiosity and Perseverances wheels, but obviously they were dealing with much more mass load

https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1745327665492726132

>>15970064
are there humans on that ship? they seem unnervingly close to the rocket should something go wrong

>>15969049
What is upgrade referring to? The rumored triple core?

>>15970064
sea launches are cool

>>15969888

We could've actually had affordable SLS if the various contractors weren't so inept and corrupt:
>swap out space shuttle srbs for castor 1200s
>do NOT use RS-25s!!! use something like Soviet's RD-0120 which are basically cheap SSMEs
>don't use ICPS, use ACES from the get go with J-2X
>mass produce it to drive costs down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpdNFqjfx9I

>>15970076
The LEO performance doesn't change while the more distant orbits do, so it's presumably something different on the Centaur. I haven't found any elaborations on what they're planning to do to the systems beyond stuff about increasing the mission endurance and possibly changing the engines.

>>15970038
>tfw you let alcoholics design your spacecraft and they spent all the budget on booze

>>15970082
honestly SLS would have been fine if it was actually like your gif
instead it was
>go through all the work of designing a new srb just to have "the same" srbs with an extra grain
>go through all the work of designing a new engine to have "modernized" rs25s
>go through all the work of designing a new fuel tank because shuttle's was designed to have the weight on the side
>design a new rocket from scratch but pretend you saved time and money by giving all the jobs to shuttle's contractors

>>15969461
Engines are the longest lead item for a rocket, so being able to buy engines from an established manufacturer makes things go a lot faster

The impressive part is that it worked on the first try - especially considering the very Kerbal nature of the rocket

>>15970093
65 is 20x 11?

>>15970091
SLS would have been fine and become operational decades earlier if they had gone forward with Shuttle-C instead of an inline configuration.

>>15970080
Good for them, genuinely

Musk SpaceX yearly meeting or SpaceX update today supposedly

>>15970103
>>15970091
well if we're gonna go there: we never should've retired the Saturn family
but yeah, shuttle -> sls is basically a new design

>>15970080
What's all the debris, is that the pad? Or is this one of those rockets with the fallaway insulation that comes off at launch like Ariane?

>>15970108
Imagine a updated, modern Saturn V first stage coming in for a landing

>>15969478
>>15969530
I can imagine some reasons for using solid propellant rockets, apart from quickly proving oneself to investors as you mentioned

1.
Launch schedule flexibility. If you're a payload manufacturer and building a prototype payload, you do not know when the payload is ready, but when it is ready, you want to test it immediately. This allows you to iterate faster and bringing the product to market faster, saving money on engineer salaries and capital costs. Thus many customers might be willing to pay extra to have a rocket waiting just for them, either a dedicated rocket, or with other customers who pay less for being willing to wait.

To have high launch schedule flexibility, this inevitably means a low utilization of your launch sites, to avoid schedule collisions. Thus the cost of your launch sites becomes more important. Launch sites for solid propellant rockets are far cheaper than launch sites for liquid propellant ones.

2.
Economies of scale by using solid propellant missile production lines built for military needs, especially during those times when military demand temporarily wanes, such as when a new ICBM silo field completes construction.

3.
The ability to use rocket motors from obsolete or near-expired PLA missiles. I don't think this applies to Orienspace, however SQX-1, Ceres-1 and KZ-1A all use the same 1.4m diameter as the JL-1 and DF-21.

4.
Launching fast is important to prove yourself to customers and prospective employees. Companies probably want to avoid the situation of Blorigin, who decided to make a super-duper high-tech rocket as their first orbital rocket and is widely derided for the inevitable delays e.g. the infamous "can't get it up (to orbit)". That can't be good for morale or recruitment

5.
For the CZ-11, as well as the Kuaizhou and Jielong series, another benefit is wartime launch resilience for the military's needs

Guys we need to cut Tory some slack about lying on his latest infographics dude just wants to sell his shitty company and ride off like a cowboy into the sunset with his golden parachute you would do the same thing in his situation

>>15970112
The military considerations are reasonably plausible; the rapid launch availability options, probably not so much. Nothing space related has ever run smoothly with rushed or ad-hoc development practices, and the recent Peregrine mission failure is a prime example of what can go wrong when the vehicle's systems are not adequately understood.

>>15970123
I will not allow you to sell United Scam Alliance without investors having the resources to fully know what they are getting in to Tory.

>>15970124
>Nothing space related has ever run smoothly with rushed or ad-hoc development practices
That's exactly why you'd want a launch vehicle that waits for you. That way, you can launch when the payload is ready, without having to wait for months for the next slot because you previously "missed the boat".

And by launching the prototype quickly, it will fail quickly, so your engineers can quickly start using the test data to improve the design

>>15970129
Subsystems testing development is a thing, but multi-million dollar tests are still a big list item in the R&D budget for a risk-reduction action. Even with small launch making the costs relatively low, I don't think the demand is there for this particular service outside of dedicated technology development missions that test multiple prototype systems in one package.

>>15970123
He's blocking people on X for questioning his infographics lmao

>>15970140
> He's blocking people on Twitter for questioning his infographics lmao
FTFY

>>15969635
>iphones
i thought adults worked at spacex?

>>15970143
what's twitter?

https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1745437745412002072

>>15970135
>I don't think the demand is there for this particular service outside of dedicated technology development missions that test multiple prototype systems in one package.
Testing is what I'm referring to, though not necessarily ones that test multiple systems in one package. It can be a single system as well, depending on what the system is and how important it is.

The price for most of these light solid rockets is <$10m. A KZ-1A launch can be bought for $5.6m. A few extra million $ in launch costs can definitely be a worthwhile price to pay if it shaves several months of your R&D cycle. It depends on what your monthly expenses on salaries and capital are, and how much value there is by finishing development sooner and bringing the product to market sooner.

I don't think it alone justifies all the solid propellant rockets of China, it is just one of several reasons that all combine to justify these rockets.

https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1745432241667223834

lol I think Bruno blocked blue after this

https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1745433905983791127

>>15970153
Ceres-1 supposedly costs $4m, SQX-1 supposedly costs $5m

>>15970155
https://medium.com/@ToryBrunoULA/the-secrets-of-rocket-design-revealed-e2c7fc89694c

all of the 4 charts (these >>15969020
) seem to be from this article

https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1745428728107106614

https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1745426686433227179

Good that Vulcan can launch into meme orbits, but why would you even want to launch your payload there.

Vulcan could be a SSTO

https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1745430417371492840

>>15970143
How to trigger leftoids

>>15970162
cut tory a break. he can't compete with spacex so he needs to find *some* niche he can claim to fill

>>15970170
Shut the fuck up chud

Radian lives!!!!


https://x.com/radianspace/status/1745489147366896065?s=46&t=ySaWSLoZU6lwZ7u03-FcBQ

>>15970165
>fagflag, trannyflag, ukraineflag
Elon should implement a feature that permanently autobans anyone using those in their profiles.
There is no reason not to, chase these people off the public square and into the dark where they belong. They can blog about it on tumblr if they want to, so long as they gtfo.

>>15968413
yeah it's all dropping post hoc

>>15970184
Or you can continue to let them post, out themselves publicly as freaks, and let the public see them for what they are.

There's a reason discord is a hive of degeneracy, it's out of the way and private.

>>15970164
If I remember correctly, there's quite a few rockets that could theoretically perform SSTO operations, but the payload fraction makes the whole thing pointless outside of meme material

>>15970195
someone should launch one once for the memes

>>15970175
Seethe more lmao

>>15970157
> This difference is the first big driver for the architecture of the rocket. The fundamental differences, from the rocket’s point of view, are how long the journey takes and the “division of labor” between the first stage and the upper stage. A Low Energy mission is usually a quick, 15 minute ride to space, with just a couple of upper stage burns. A really long LEO mission might still take only 30 minutes. Conversely, a High Energy mission will take from six to eight hours or more (10, 20, even 40 times longer!), involving many burns, long coasts, and complex maneuvers, which are executed at precise times and locations.

> Last, but not least, the level of complexity of the necessary maneuvers means advanced avionics and an engine that can be started and stopped many times and left idle for hours at a time, in space.
these are kind of funny considering what kind of avionics propulsive landing on a shit at sea requires

>>15970201
Since Falcon Heavy has provisions for long coast phases, multiple starts, and complex orbital insertions, it must be a high energy launch vehicle too.

I hope "spacefans" would move on from obsessing which obsolete rocket design is the best and just accept that Starship and reuse are going to be paradigm changing and start obsessing about different kind of spacetugs or something
what kind of propulsion system is best for in-space? chemical, electric thrusters, nuclear, something passive? lots of stuff to start autisming about
add in ISRU

>>15970213
> Once you have made your choice of target mission, you’re locked in. You can sometimes make minor adjustments like offloading propellant, but that’s about all.
not so fast, if its not optimal it doesn't count clearly
also forget about total cost

>>15970220
But Anon, rockets are amazing

Starship $100 million cost, could launch 104 times a year according to NASA

https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/otps-sbsp-report-final-tagged-approved-1-8-24-tagged.pdf

Page 28 of the PDF

BRIDENSTACK JOINING STARLAB

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/former-nasa-administrator-jim-bridenstine-joins-starlab-space-board-of-directors-302032882.html?tc=eml_cleartime

>>15970238
Hnnnggg

>>15970248
>former nasa chief joins board of company vying for a nasa contract
C O R R U P T I O N

>>15970238
10 billion just for launches, how much is total system cost? I find it kind of hard to see how Congress would fund something like this

>>15970082
>>don't use ICPS, use ACES from the get go with J-2X
Defy the juggalo lobby? Are you serious?

>>15970253
>>15970238
funding it through some kind of energy thing instead of purely research/NASA might be different though

>>15970248
Is he still in viasat

>>15970255
o'neill was writing about space based solar power back in the 70s and even with his insane launch cost handwaves it didn't sound like a good value proposition. I don't see it being any better today

>>15970253
ROI is gonna be orders of magnitude higher though

>>15969981
This but unironically.
>>15969987
This but unironically.

DeltaIV and Sbarky stop name dropping /sfg/ you fucking hacks I'm sick of retarded newniggers from twitter coming here. ESPECIALLY YOU DELTA

I hate Starship BUT i fucking love Musk

>>15969380
there should be a smug pepe face on that robot

I hate tory bruno BUT i fucking love vulcan

chink rocket, actually cute

>>15970279
Lil chinker

Test

>>15970271
This but unironically

>>15970298
did it pass?

>>15970267
based
total twitter faggot death when?

>>15970298
Youre unbanned

>>15970304
>>15970306
new KurobaEx update worked!

>>15970267
nah fuck off. we need fresh blood on here

>>15970315
>we

>>15970238
$85M blockbuy

>>15970315
>we
ok so youre fine if i go advertise in /pol/ and /lgbt/?

>>15970309
captcha solver still sucks anal drip

>>15970238
$425 per KG payload

>>15970328
I think the comparison should be nuclear instead of renewables
renewables need short term storage and seasonal stuff that isn't even a solved problem yet

https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1745437745412002072

Vulcan tower view

>>15970328
>launch a New Horizons mass probe for $200,000
>Probe builders no longer have to be autistic about mass or size requirements

Damn

>>15970093
At least someone finally used MT for MEGATons instead of mT for milliTons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P258CUvDRf4
> Blue Origin Rolls Out New Glenn | Breaking

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/01/daily-telescope-a-monster-protostar-in-a-distant-nebula/

>>15970361
Nice, this is a decade when heavyliftbros and superheavylifybros are finally feasting again

>>15970154
Tory loves to play wholesome chungus CEO on X
but under that cowboy grandpa facade, he's a lying snake

>>15970231
Sure, if they're manufactured by SpaceX

>>15970324
Less retarded and gay, respectively, than /sfg/

>half of expected chamber pressure
it's over for American technology

>>15970248
Big Jim
Big Starlab

Been away for several months. Happenings?

>>15970439
Starship flight 3 in Feb

>>15970439
No Artemis II this year.
Peregrine launched and fucked up, but at least Vulcan launched and went okay.
Ingenuity is still hopping away on Mars after Perseverance.

MMX delayed to 2026
https://spacenews.com/japanese-mars-mission-launch-delayed-to-2026/
>The launch of a Japanese mission to collect samples from the Martian moon Phobos and return them to Earth, previously scheduled for later this year, has slipped to 2026.

>The Japanese space agency JAXA confirmed the two-year delay in the launch of the Martian Moons eXploration, or MMX, mission, blaming it in part on the H3 rocket that will launch the spacecraft.

>“Owing to evaluate the demonstration results of the second H3 rocket test vehicle and considering the importance to ensure sufficient time for preliminary verification of MMX on the ground, the launch schedule for Japanese rockets has been reviewed,” the agency said in a Jan. 10 statement to SpaceNews.

DELAYS DELAYS DELAYS

>>15969557
As Lucy and Cygnus demonstrated, the fan is quite prone to deployment issues

>>15970447
Space is hard, chud

>>15970112
good post

https://spacenews.com/d-orbit-raises-110-million-to-expand-space-logistics-services/
>

D-Orbit currently provides in-space transportation services using its ION series of orbital transfer vehicles. Those tugs have launched primarily on SpaceX Falcon 9 rockets, such as the Transporter line of rideshare missions. The most recent ION, the 13th overall, was a secondary payload on the Falcon 9 launch of a South Korean reconnaissance satellite Dec. 1.

https://spacenews.com/d-orbit-raises-110-million-to-expand-space-logistics-services/
> D-Orbit currently provides in-space transportation services using its ION series of orbital transfer vehicles. Those tugs have launched primarily on SpaceX Falcon 9 rockets, such as the Transporter line of rideshare missions. The most recent ION, the 13th overall, was a secondary payload on the Falcon 9 launch of a South Korean reconnaissance satellite Dec. 1.

>>15970447
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNTU0zgU00s