/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15930479
Why do you care about this? It literally doesn’t matter, none of your whining is ever going to change anything.

>>15930484
>It literally doesn't matter
Billions of dollars are spent every year to convince people that every type of human is identical to every other type of human, despite the fact that everyone knows how different we are. It matters because one particular group of humans thinks that all the other groups are animals who were born to serve them, and they go to great lengths to subvert those groups in order to benefit their group. It matters because being pressured into saying something when you know it's not true is evil.

Subspecies are designated by breeding isolation, not physiological differences. The human races don't experience breeding isolation anymore. You'd have a better argument for saying uncontacted tribes are human subspecies.

Also nobody said race isn't real. They said race is a social construct. So is subspecies.

>canines
>different species
In fairness, that should be changed. Taxonomists have been revising species classifications but haven't gotten around to that one yet.

>>15930501
>It matters because one particular group of humans thinks that all the other groups are animals who were born to serve them
And you're opening up the possibility that they are right.

>>15930510
>They said race is a social construct.
By which they mean "not real". Nobody calls 99 % of social constructs social constructs.

>>15930531
They do, but for 99% of social constructs there isn't anyone kicking up manufactured controversy about that so there's not really any point in discussing it beyond pointing out that's it's a social construct within a classroom setting. Go on, what's the hot social construct chat you've been so desperately missing?

>>15930531
>Nobody calls 99 % of social constructs social constructs.
Because dipshits don't insist 99% of social constructs be taken seriously by hard sciences that they're completely useless to. You're the dipshit trying to drag shit into where it doesn't belong.

>>15930479
>siberian and bengal tigers are the same subspecies
>the three orangutans are different species
>dogs and wolves are the same species
This image only works at a surface level. A Siberian tiger is like twice the size of a Sumatran for starters, they are more difference than an African and a European. You probably could call different human races subspecies, but subspecies is such a poorly defined term anyways there’s no point

>>15930484
nunyabusiness

>>15930538
There are plenty of people in both the soft and hard sciences who can distinguish between gender and sex, and know which belongs to which. It's the agenda-driven pseuds who insist on conflating the two so they can bitch about it.

>>15930564
Nobody said anything about gender or sex, Mr. agenda-driven pseud insistent on bitching.

>>15930479
This is why you should have never dropped out of high school.

>>15930484
hi glowie

>>15930479
What we have learned from human migration is that humans have never, at any point in their history or prehistory, ever been separated from one another. We have constant migrations and interbreeding throughout time. There is no way we could divide humans into subspecies.

>"WOW, ONE HAVE WHITE SKIN AND SMALLER EYELIDS, ONE HAVE BLACK SKIN AND BIGGER JAW AND ONE HAVE WHITE SKIN AND LOOKS LIKE MY MOTHER-IN-LAW THAT I FAP TO, THEY ARE SO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW NOBODY BUT MY BIG DELICIOUS DICK /POL/TARDS SEE THIS?????????????????????????"
>needs to fucking put side face pics to show the "super-duper-differences"
the unique different species here are the dementially retarded /pol/tards that infects all of this shithole

>>>/pol/

>>15930521
Which is another great reason to keep feeding this idiotic troll as he continues to make his racism look as retarded as possible.

I see no down sides.

>>15930628
Abbo's in australia have to be pretty close

>>15930764
Kind of. It's hard to say for a lot of reasons one of which is how few samples from them exist, as well as extinction of many coastal populations where that gene flow would probably be most likely. Whatever picture we get as more results come in will be very fragmentary compared to what actual gene flow or diversity used to exist because of that.

Point is you can't just do what many seem to do and go "oh original split was ~65kya therefore whole population is the same" that doesn't make any sense. Odds are very few would be truly that isolated and even less so given more recent admixture. When you end up getting down to subsets of subsets of subsets of populations trying to justify whatever racists try to justify it starts to get a bit ridiculous.

>>15930479
This affects animals as well. The Bengal and Siberian tigees are no longer widely considered different subspecies.

>>15930536
>>15930538
Only the arguments you trannies and homosexuals are interested in are ended with "it's a social construct, chud", whereas just about all arguments involve social constructs. It's quite obvious that you are using it to mean "not real".

>>15931061
If you're going to just conceded it's entirely up to where you choose to draw the boundary lines you're implicitly admitting there isn't enough of a natural difference to make a difference as the natural difference can't form natural boundaries.

Not that you've enough self awareness to realize how stupid that makes you look but I figured I'd warn you.

>>15930479
>Apparently all humans just have the same level of mental capacity despite diverging enough to have vastly different appearance and evolutionary adaptations
I know where you are going with this, but consider some consequences you probably didn't expect when crafting this position: Thus train of thought also hits the one drop rule of race mixing you most probably believe because it seems very unlikely that a mixed european african person with, say, 4% of sub saharan dna and with a 100% European physical appearance can be correctly classified as black. If such person's apperance diverged so much from an African, there's no reason to believe his cognitive ability and genetic psychological behaviour didn't too.

>>15931068
>orange is not real

>>15931289
>confusing the map for the territory
>unironic NPC

>>15931068
It's "entirely up to you" where you choose to draw the boundary lines on literally any thing or concept.

>>15930538
How is race a social construct that is useless to hard sciences (I'm not sure what you meant by calling it a 'hard' science since it would seem what some people suggest race is relevant to is things like behavioral psychology and biology) if it's correlated to things in "hard sciences"?

>>15931292
No, it's the heap paradox. How many grains of sand is enough for a heap?

>>15931300
>doesn't know what a reification fallacy is
>NPC intensifies

race is only denied because there's one group of humans that wants to eliminate or enslave all the other groups

>>15931316
germans?

>>15930479
you are correct, evolution does not stop below the neck. "storing harvest for winter" was a necessary survival trait for northern populations, whereas tropical/equatorial populations didn't face this annual pressure

if race is so important why aren't all people of the same race fungible

>>15931303
I'm not doing that, and I'm trying to explain it in a way that you could understand.

>>15931343
Why not?

>comparing humans who can control fire, make tools, learn each other's religions and languages, wage large scale regional/continental/global wars over monopoly money and create ancient/mordern sexual depictions of humans fucking animals/animal hybrids
>with the rest of the animal kingdom

Are you trying to make yourself look retarded op? Humans are the weirdos of the Earth.

>>15931410
poor widdle /pol/tard mad his bullshit got preempted boo hoo

>>15930479
Each race has a different proportion of archaic species of the sapient family. Asians have more denisovan/neanderthal, blacks more homo erectus (which is very archaic and they also went extinct because they were lazy) and whites more neanderthal/cro magnon.

>>15931839
Yoy're just talking fucking nonsense. There are no races (even the neanderthals were a separate species) but you argue for the same viewpoint in a completely wrong way. that may make is seem ridiculous.
It's not the first time. I gave a correct explanation why global warming causes sudden drops in winter temperatures, and got attacked as a denialist. It makes you look like somebody who tries to make the PoV seem ridiculous, by ostensibly supporting with weak or ridiculous arguments.

>>15931839
You're just talking fucking nonsense. There are no races (even the neanderthals weren't a separate species) but you argue for the same viewpoint in a completely wrong way. that may make is seem ridiculous.
It's not the first time. I gave a correct explanation why global warming causes sudden drops in winter temperatures, and got attacked as a denialist. It makes you look like somebody who tries to make the PoV seem ridiculous, by ostensibly supporting with weak or ridiculous arguments.

>>15931839
You're just talking fucking nonsense. There are no races (even the neanderthals weren't a separate species) but you argue for the same viewpoint in a completely wrong way that may make it seem ridiculous.
It's not the first time. I gave a correct explanation why global warming causes sudden drops in winter temperatures, and got attacked as a denialist. It makes you look like somebody who tries to make the PoV seem ridiculous, by ostensibly supporting it with weak or ridiculous arguments.

>>15932428
Bruh.
I'm not sure if you're drunk or what but you've posted a screed without demonstrating anything of the sort. What, exactly, do you think is wrong and ridiculous and how?

Also worth noting the color analogy is a false one for genetics where you're more dealing with a posteriori chosen frequency distributions, so frequencies of slight variations of colors, of SNPs that retroactively map to whatever the hell you want for whatever the hell you're doing. I'm not sure if you can put that together and realize why I mocked you for that post but it was a really fucking stupid thing to say as if it constitutes some kind of counter-argument.

Race is defined as another group of people based off their physical traits. Regardless of your beliefs regarding the equality of such beings, saying "Race doesn't exist" only admits you don't understand what the word means, and indeed how it has been used for the entirety of its existence until recent attempts in the last 2 decades or so to alter said meaning for propoganda purposes (e.g "the human race" which itself is an oxymoron in light of the above definition which it directly contradicts).

>>15932490
You have the exact same problem as you have with genetics once you get down to analyzing a comprehensive suite of traits. That is self evident given how many "racial" divisions nations have "among races". Where you draw the dividing line and where you stop drawing lines is completely arbitrary, and no that does not mean you "can't draw lines" it means the stopping point is arbitrary.

You're not special just because you're an ignorant racist who thinks your idea is the final word. Nobody cares least of all anyone academically.

>>15932494
While the grey territory exists regarding consensus of scale, so long as there are two groups of people, each of which share common superficially observable physical traits amongst themselves that are distinct from the other groups, race exists. Whether you consider the east-asians a single race or consider the Japanese, Chinese and Koreans as all different races does not change that the core definition remains unchanged. Trying to say otherwise is almost logically equivalent to saying color doesn't exist cause someone thinks teal, cyan and blue are all the same. With the only difference is that race hypothetically couldn't exist if everyone intermixed to the point where no sizable groups with distinct pairings of traits exist.

In regards to your personal note the fact that you use the word "ignorant" as your go to negative adjective, which in this case is hypocritical given your lack of information regarding my position towards such, as well as my basis for such given that the post in which you reply to (which was my only post itt) gives no specification towards either. As well as that you then go on to use the all-abiding academics as some metric of what is worthy of care implies far more about you.

>>15932461
The argument is fallacious, just because there is a spectrum doesn't mean that labels can't be used.
People haven't be separated long enough. and don't have enough diversity to have subspecies. The exact same fanaticism is a threat for nature conservation, where animals are prevented from interbreeding with "different subspecies", even though the differences are meaningless, such as with the tigers.

>>15932547
>The argument is fallacious, just because there is a spectrum doesn't mean that labels can't be used.
Yep that would indeed be a fallacy. It also isn't at all what I wrote.
>each of which share common superficially observable physical traits amongst themselves that are distinct from the other groups, race exists
And like with genetics there are either nearly as many races as individuals, if not as many as individuals, or none because the designation makes no sense.

You're just fundamentally confusing "coherent" for "but I see thing doe" like the rest. It isn't coherent and just because you think there's something consistent there doesn't mean it really is. You'd think people would learn that in childhood but I am routinely reminded they don't.

>>15932531
>In regards to your personal note the fact that you use the word "ignorant" as your go to negative adjective
As an aside, your treatment of the subject matter is ignorant. You may justly complain I tossed "racist" in their too readily but consider the context of this board for a second. So no I am not going to apologize for tossing that in there. Either way, yes, you seem ignorant of some basic logic and consequences of these distributions and how populations are defined. If you knew the subject matter and what I'm talking about you'd know why I say what I do, as is mirrored by as many academics and relevant statisticians and the whole field of biology all the way on up to the species definition problem.

Otherwise? You're asking me to believe you somehow know at least as much about the pertinent subjects as I do while still faceplanting on very basic logic. While "possible" I can't see how that would happen and so find that hard to believe. So, yes, ignorant. I'm ignorant of many things myself. This is just not one of them.

>>15932561
>Yep that would indeed be a fallacy. It also isn't at all what I wrote.
It is, and you wrote it again in the last paragraph... And it isn't even valid, as there is a rather clear separation between Africans and the rest. Thd same argument that is used to keep tigers separate, so that all will die in attempts to "save" some meaningless "supbspecies".

>>15932573
>>15932575

And you can't tell from looks alone. Almost everyone will pick Australian Aborigines as the most distinct, even though genetically they are very close to Eurasia

>>15932575
>It is, and you wrote it again in the last paragraph
Fuck sake here it is in even fewer words: "label is not truly coherent" != "can't label thing"
Read more carefully or learn to read English better.
>Thd same argument that is used to keep tigers separate, so that all will die in attempts to "save" some meaningless "supbspecies".
Yeah we use labels with inconsistent or invalid definitions all of the time for all sorts of reasons. Does that mean they're coherent all of a sudden merely for being used?

>>15930484
>Why do you care about this? It literally doesn’t matter, none of your whining is ever going to change anything.

It does matter and if enough people begin to realize it (which they are) it will cause change in society. White liberals are in denial and pathologically altruistic to outsiders to the point of being biologically defective.

>>15930479

>>15930628
>There is no way we could divide humans into subspecies.

Yeah sure buddy. Blacks and whites dont loom totally different from each other right down to bone structure.

You're delusional.

>>15931316
>>15931339
Jews.

>>15931448
Yes. Different races have different levels of intelligence.

I dont think you will ever find an african country with people capable of designing and producing stealth bombers.

>>15932582
>Fuck sake here it is in even fewer words: "label is not truly coherent" != "can't label thing"
The problem is that at the same you insist that it does equal. Sort it out in your head first what you even want to say.

>>15932602
Anon go home you are drunk.

>>15931300
>How many grains of sand is enough for a heap?
At least two

>>15931061
>It's quite obvious that you are using it to mean "not real".
On the contrary. You're the one insisting that it means "not real".

>>15932784
>missing the point this hard
It must be nice to be immune to logic.

>>15930510
>Subspecies are designated by breeding isolation,
No they're not.

>>15930501
> Billions of dollars are spent every year
To subsidize poor/dumb people so they keep electing Democrats.
Welfare is a scam, it’s it’s illegal since it doesn’t apply to everyone, only losers.
The Constitution was written to allow for GENERAL WELFARE, not SPECIFIC WELFARE.

>>15930544

> A Siberian tiger is like twice the size of a Sumatran for starters

A European is twice as smart as an African what is your point?

>>15932596
Anon there wasn't a single East Asian country that knew what the fuck electricity was or how to manipulate it until the Europeans informed them about it. The Dutch themselves basically had to baby step Japan into modern science/technology for several centuries.

And they host the highest IQ countries wise globally. Intelligence doesn't function like a linear path, it's sparactic and doesn't logically adhere to stimuli. Which is why humans are weirdos. If it did the Inuit Eskimos (90-93IQ) would have been the ones building Aztec and Mayan structures in Upper North America that the Amerindians (83-87IQ) did in Central America. Not some basic igloo structures.

People will focus on fields and technologies that serve their needs. African countries like Nigeria could design and produce stealth bombers if they wanted but it's more pressing for them to build their economy and infrastructure up nation wide than focus on military tech effectively making themselves a mark to more developed countries.

That's how Iran and North Korea got themselves tagged and sactioned for decades. Because they focused on military tech only. So now instead of having their country be +200 million strong and being more economically relevant each year for their people like Nigeria, they're economic pariahs whose only relevancy is religious fanaticism with guns.

>>15931316
>i-it's the JEWS that want to enslave the entirety of humanity
>What's that? There's precedent in human history that racist white men just like have have actually executed that threat? That doesn't count because whites are naturally superior and it was for everyone else's own good anyways
lol why are they like this

>>15933084
>have actually executed that threat?
Fake news, Jew.

>>15933054
>Anon there wasn't a single East Asian country that knew what the fuck was or how to manipulate it until the Europeans informed them about it.
Do you know when it was discovered? There was full contact with east asia at that point.

why is it that the science board gets the most amount of pseudoscientific garbage outside of /pol/?

>>15932939
Giving money to the poor is good for the economy, because those poor people are poor for a reason. Them spending all their money on random shit is why (You) have a job, and why (You)r employer isn't bankrupt yet.
learn economics Ivan Chudkov!

>>15933120
It was discovered back in 1600.

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Gilbert_(physicist)

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroscope

Japan's first electric generator was presented in 1776 by Hiraga Gennai. Who was influenced by Dutch and other European works on electricity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elekiter

https://www.ndl.go.jp/nichiran/e/s1/s1_4_column.html

China's introduction to electricity while thought to be in 1860's to Qing Emperor Guangxu, was more formally recognized at the industral level in 1882.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/enterprise-and-society/article/abs/foreign-direct-investment-in-chinas-electrification-between-colonialism-and-nationalism-18821952/EB89C63BE7438673265D99C91CE80DC0

In Korea the first implementation of electricity was at the powerhouse and electric lights in the Geoncheonggung for King Gojong was ordered in 1884 and installed in 1887. Korea was first introduced to electricity through books published in the 1860's from China.

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4510266

>>15932593
>Blacks and whites dont loom totally different from each other right down to bone structure.
you mean like chihuahuas and great danes?

>>15934036
You are proving me right, and yourself wrong. They were duscovering it together with the rest of the world.

>>15930635
>i hate /sci/
>i hate 4chan
so leave, you won't have to be so upset all the time if you gtfo. if you don't you will continue to suffer the inevitable deleterious consequences of stress and die young. science says stress is a killer, you do trust the science, don't you?

My tribe is better than your tribe and I am so disillusioned with myself that this sense of superiority I get from identification with my superior tribe is my only reason for living

>>15934384
Aewwww'qqq

>>15934384
That isn't how tribalism works. This is how it works:
>I hate my brother, but we must fight together against my family.
>Our family hates your family, but we must fight together against the other clan.
>Our clans hate each other, but now we need to fight together against the other tribe.

>>15934228
People don't hate /sci/ they hate you.

I purpose that all people who believe that whites, Asians, blacks etc are different races or even different species ought to stay in their prospective countries so they can practice Europe for whites, Asia for Asians etc, and the people who believe race is a social construct and that humans are essentially interchangeable can relocate to sub saharan Africa and start a new community where all are welcome and how you look doesn't mean anything and is of no consequence.
That way close minded people can stay in their old countries and exist in a homogeneous sea of bland sameness, and the open minded people can thrive in a heterogeneous society of tolerance. Everyone's happy.

>>15932966
That's a complete lie. So is the only way you have to win arguments to lie through your ass?

>>15934509
>So is the only way you have to win arguments to lie through your ass?
Basically. Welcome to /pol/ threads.

>>15934509
>>15934525
Finding the one guy you agree with and smugly jerking him off is peak preddit. How the actual fuck do you even quantify "twice as smart"? What does that mean? Was Einstein twice as smart as the average person? Thrice?

Please fuck off to preddit.

>>15934608
>noooo stop dissing my horseshit ideology in my safe space
>>>/pol/

>>15930479
If you kill an asian, a black and a white then put their skulls next to eachother your would see they are the same species, you stupid fuck. Humans have deep faces so can facially vary way more than nonhuman animals can creating the illusion that humans are diverse in appearance.

>>15930479
what do you care if some humans are dumb? Forget for a minute the race part, in every race, in even the superior race there will be dumb people.
Why does that bother you?
>INB4 it doesnt bother me
yes it does

>>15934621
If there were upvotes here, I'm sure you could circle jerk with your buddies hard enough to convince yourself that you're capable of making arguments. Alas.

>>15934652

>>15934703
>S-STOP DISSING MY HORSESHIT IT'S MY SAFE SPACE REEEEEE
No
>>15934704
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteology
I'd say you should look up how osteology helps inform evolutionary anthropology and stuff but we all know you don't care to learn a fucking thing about anything.

Is race = subspecies now?
What the fuck even is taxonomy? autistic unscientific shit

>>15934709
You stick out like a sore thumb. Without the upvotes, your impotent screeching is really just that, impotent screeching.
Here's a wikipedia article for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_disability

>>15934719
>s-sstop making ff-fun of me!!
No

>>15934725
Haha, I just realised why you're incapable of making arguments, and why all you do is screech: You're exactly like an episode of John Oliver.
1. Present an issue
2. Laugh at it
3. Repeat

Seriously, go back to preddit. You'll get your laugh tracks in the form of upvotes there, and there you don't have to be ashamed of being incapable of defending your views.

>>15934732
>i cant argue so ill just imagine i won
Yeah sounds about right for a /pol/tard. I'll let you know if you stumble your way into an actual argument. Monkeys and typewriters and all that.

>>15934411
You said nothing different.You identify with the tribe regardless, for which the distinctions you make are intelligence, skin colour, eye colour etc, etc. With this identity you mistakenly conflate the groups superiority with your own. The knowledge has no value especially in the hands of people who are satisfied with being inert simply from basking in the glory of tribe. Your examples are simply the demonstration of tribalism biasing action and not tribalism itself.

>>15934384
Yes, the only reason you live is to pass on your selfish genes. Genes which you happen to share with your tribe.

>>15934223
No they weren't, there was a near two century gap before any East Asian country was even aware of electricity. On top of the fact Europeans had to introduce that knowledge and show them it before they demonstrated it themselves.

What part of that post did you not understand where the Dutch had to come to their lands and give them that knowledge? What part of that post did not understand where the British had to come to their lands and build the infrastructure for their first generators and lights.

Stop being a disingenuous dolt. If I figure how something works well over a century before you do and I HAVE TO SHOW YOU what it is and I HAVE TO BUILD FOR YOU before you can do it on your own, it means we weren't discovering it together.

>>15930510
>The human races don't experience breeding isolation anymore
>anymore

So you admit that prior to the modern age, humans experienced breeding isolation—which, by definition, resulted in them becoming distinct sub-categories within the overarching human species?

>>15935086
>distinct sub-categories
They're not in any meaningful sense "distinct". Variation is so slight among humans that individuals in any population are more likely to have more similarities with another individual across populations. "Distinct" and "distinguishable" are not synonyms in this context. "to be distinguishable" is something true of every single individual so it is not the basis by which you can declare "distinct" as one does with species for example. "Distinct" would require highly accelerated evolution, which involves a lot of selection sweeps given the short time scale. Selection sweeps are quite rare in humans as you'll find if you read the literature on this, so however you slice it the combination of facts definitely does not support claiming humans have something like "distinct breeds" or whatever. You can find some of this discussed in examples such as this article https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12052-019-0109-y

So would you admit it's rather ridiculous to pretend there's some massive difference among humans genetically when variation is quite small and selection sweeps quite rare?

>>15935115
>They're not in any meaningful sense "distinct".
ever heard of IQ?