/sci/ - Science & Math

https://youtu.be/Wp-WiNXH6hI?si=W202ldgBMp47n0UC

>>15833873
Back then the Earth was globally cooling, eventually it started globally warming, but then it started globally changing.

>>15833873
That faggot died and went to hell where he belongs

>>15833873
the introduction of the idea of "climate justice"

not only do first world white countries need to cut their emissions to an economically cripplingly level low level, while at the same time not saying a PEEP when China and India and other asians do the vast majority of greenhouse gas emissions....

but ALSO now climate change also entails white people giving their money to third world countries to atone for their sin of maybe in the future third world countries suffer worse.... according to the "models". must gibs money now -- africa will spend the money on building dykes or something, so 1 bil per subsaharan country at least

>>15834245
China and India produce what the West consooms. Western countries (especially the US) have higher carbon emissions per capita than China and India. The fact that China and India make any attempt whatsoever to lower their emissions when they barely possess the capital for it is admirable. One would expect a developed country to take the lead on climate issues

>>15834398
>One would expect a developed country to take the lead on climate issues
yes, one would expect that if you assume we white people need to atone for a litany of vaguely-defined sins but Asians OTOH can get of scott free destroying the environment since their skin is somewhat of a different hue. this argument is completely infallible according to _the experts_ and as such cannot be questioned

>>15834407
They're not sins or punishments you Christian self-victimizing fuck. It is objective reality. Western countries have a far greater capacity to and responsibility to address our own massive negative externalities because we are the only ones who can, and they are the sole result of our excessive lifestyles. Asians aren't destroying shit, they are producing what the West doesn't want to

>>15834430
bullshit. europe is very green by now and america is quite green by now. china is a fucking greenhouse gas ongoing disaster and so are the shithole countries of vietnam, cambodia, indonesia etc which are the vassals of china at this point. they pollute an insane amount and the fact that the international community isn’t calling them out on this literal crime against humanity is an embarrassment

>>15834439
>europe is very green by now
Lol no.

>and america is quite green by now.
Lmao not even close.

>>15834449
>per-capita emissions
multiply that by population and maybe you will see how horrible china actually is for the earth?

you also have to take into account that china’s proportion of “middle class” citizens is still not even close to what it is in europe or america, and if they achieve this dream of parity with america then they would be OFF THE CHARTS on that pollution chart

>>15834439
They don't have the capacity to alleviate these emissions while they compensate for Western excess by exporting cheap commodities. Capital accumulates in Asia but it is a slow process and they are overpopulated. I would love to hold China and India to the same standards and they should be held to certain standards but then you would have to address the economic imbalance. Somebody somewhere on a council right now is trying to deal with this but nothing is going to happen without concessions. You're not allowed to tell poor third worlders to suck it up and accept our embargoes and emissions regulations if you're not going to assist them in lowering their emissions, because they literally functionally do not have the capacity to handle both without starving more people

>>15834464
yes, this is the standard argument for why China and India are the main drivers of global climate change. it doesn’t change the fact that they are in fact destroying the global climate. it also doesn’t change the fact that “climate justice” if a fraud unjustly applied on the EU and US, which is what causes this massive imbalance in global industrial demand which FORCES asian nations to fill the void of demand. it is not their fault that they are the only ones allowed to burn the gas and burn the coal needed to sustain the world. and nobody is allowed to build nuclear of course. the elites have picked this model, which incidentally ensures europe and the US have a horrible system where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer while China and India and southeast asia do all the greenhouse emissions that destroy the world while no actual technological improvements to energy infrastructure occur (because disrupting that would disrupt the elite power structure)

>>15834455
That's all a bunch of weird cope, my guy. If you want absolute figure the China has the most renewable energy and electric cars in the world. How about instead you tell me your whack ass definition of "very green"?

>>15834477
>it doesn’t change the fact that they are in fact destroying the global climate.
It does mean they are doing it at your behest, request, and pleasure though.

>>15834480
>2017 graph
you realize things have changed since 2017 right anon?

china can have the “most” of basically anything in the world since their population is HUGE compared to the US or all of Europe. you seem to be switching between per-capita and absolute numbers whenever it suits your argument which indicates to me that you are some sort of china shill…

>>15834483
this was never any part of my argument. in fact I said the fraud called “climate justice” in the West is to blame for why China does a huge amount of polluting and this just supports that

>>15834480
>That's all a bunch of weird cope, my guy. If you want absolute figure the China has the most renewable energy and electric cars in the world. How about instead you tell me your whack ass definition of "very green"?
China has the largest EV graveyards in the world, leeching their deadly poison into the soil.

just for context

>>15834495
Yeah, the US emitted even more carbon.

>you seem to be switching between per-capita and absolute numbers whenever it suits your argument
The irony. Do you want per capita or absolute values? You can't have it both ways

>indicates to me that you are some sort of china shill…
Really, because your argument indicates to me that you are trying to deflect blame from your country and by extension yourself by finding fault with another country. Why don't you take some personal responsibility and own up to your actions?

>>15834503
China pollutes on your behalf. Pretending those aren't your emissions because they happened somewhere else is dishonest.

>>15834505
And yet that's still better than the junkyards we currently have leeching their deadly poison into the soil.

>>15834511
No it's far, far worse. An EV contains more poisonous chemicals than any traditional car does.

>>15834507
See
>>15834480
>>15834508

>>15834512
No it doesn't, but I've got some spare transmission fluid if you'd like to come over for a drink. Not interested? How about some antifreeze? No? Would you prefer brake fluid or oil?

>>15834508
look at that _exponential_ growth by China! you guys are gonna surpass the sim total of everyone else in probably 1 or 2 years by that chart! stunning! oh wait. that chart is already 2 years out of date. hmmm

this sort of “you guys polluted in the past and even though you are greening up doesn’t mean that China had to give up its get-out-of-jail-free card!” that’s the most bullshit argument ever. china clearly doesn’t give a shit about the environment and any posturing they make about protecting the environment is disingenuous pandering. just admit you want to destroy the planet and don’t care

>>15834517
>EVs don't have brake fluid
>EVs don't use lubricant
>EVs don't have a gearbox
>EVs don't have coolant
Oh brother do I have some bad news for you.

>>15834521
>Yeah, I shot your dog, but that was last year, and I haven't shot as many dogs yet this year, so what does it matter?

>>15834525
You know that electric vehicles use electromagnetic brakes and don't require anywhere near as much cooling or oil, right?

Did you still want that drink?

>>15834528
>i have no argument but let me start talking about shooting dogs (chinese culinary delicacy BTW)

>>15834530
You'll never learn will you? EVs are required to have hydraulic brakes for safety. Modern EV batteries use a liquid cooling loop that uses your hated antifreeze. Most EVs use a gearbox to transfer power to the wheels because one motor is cheaper than 4.

Please continue digging the hole deeper though. I'd love to know what else you'll deny as we go on.

>>15834530
? Tesla uses 11 liters of coolant, and a regular car will use a few liters. Can you be more specific with what models you are referring to in either scenario and how they relate to the overall market as a whole. I could argue that a regular ice vehicle has market support and staying power in spite of insatiable government taxes, while the green vehicles you wet yourself to have none with mountains of subsidies driving them.
EV cars are also going to have brakes. Regenerative braking is not fool proof and requires nice circumstance and cannot be a prime braking mechanism in any hazardous condition. The bottom line risk is failure of braking resistors which can be sudden and would immediately cause total failure of the braking system. Luckily some cars have redundancy here. Running electronics on such an unprotected system, one without something to keep generator voltage spikes down, could lead to extensive damage on other electronic components.

>>15834534
>Imagine being so retarded that you didn't grasp a simple metaphor and thought that things that happened last year didn't matter anymore.

>>15834541
Again, they use significantly less antifreeze, oil, transmission fluid, ect. When will you learn?

Please continue digging the hole deeper though. I'd love to know what else you'll deny as we go on.

Climate change is a policy debate, not a scientific debate. There's a real debate to be had on which policy tools to use, who should bear the weight of the policy, how to avoid free-riding, etc. but the anti-intervention side of the debate would rather pretend climate change isn't an issue than provide good-faith arguments for their positions and propose viable alternatives. I really wish more conservatives realized liberals monopolizing the climate change discourse is a bad thing.

>>15834566
Telsas use about twice as much coolant, but they require less cooling. Further the engine oil never needs to be replaced and the transmission takes a quarter of the fluid.

The rest of your post is unrelated.

>>15834585
Where did my tone go.

>>15833873
>Carl Sagan
wait, was He a climate scientist, or whatever the name is, too?

>>15834580
People won't go along with your unscientific beliefs just because you want to beg the question.

>>15834245
>the introduction of the idea of "climate justice"
that was started by Hitler

>>15834568
>imagine thinking you can cope your way out of an argument with a shitty metaphor
>>”ant says to grasshopper ‘your wings do not make you fly.’”
>>”grasshopper says to ant, ‘to fly for a grasshopper is like to babble for a stream’s
>>”grasshopper tries to fly away and makes it 2 feet”
>>”ant walks over and says ‘good work bro’l

>>15834591
No he wasn't. He had no experience in the subject and just wanted to promote his political beliefs.

>>15834568
imagine thinking you can cope your way out of an argument with a shitty metaphor
>ant says to grasshopper ‘your wings do not make you fly.
>grasshopper says to ant, ‘to fly for a grasshopper is like to babble for a stream’
>grasshopper tries to fly away and makes it 2 feet
>ant walks over and says ‘good work bro’

>>15834585
Twice as much coolant as what? Other EV cars? And how many times the weight in batteries do they have compared to ice vehicles?
And you mentioned braking, so it is not irrelevant at all. Braking is optimally done through hydraulic fluid and I would wager a significant amount of money that EVs use more braking fluid, that is either a bigger reservoir or more frequency changes, on average compared to ice because of
1. higher weight to slow down
2. electric powerband looks like fun

>>15834601
The irony. I genuinely did not think it was possible to be so stupid that you thought things that happened last year have no consequence.

>>15834610
what things?

>>15834605
Other ICEs retard. Do you want a specific model? How about a Toyota Corolla? Want a different one? Pick one out.

>And you mentioned braking, so it is not irrelevant at all.
Most of your post was about ICEs having infrastructure. It was irrelevant.

>wager a significant amount of money that EVs use more braking fluid
I'll take that bet. You lose. A Tesla takes half a liter of braking fluid. Do you want to pay in cash or crypto? I can send you a wallet address or set up a PO box.

The regenerative breaking pulls 70% of the kinetic energy from the wheels with no mechanical system whatsoever.

>>15834615
How about emissions? You were just saying that cumulative emissions don't matter because they didn't happen this year. I cannot fathom the stupidity you must be suffering from to have come up with that mental abortion.

>>15834618
No, your number is irrelevant. How frequency are tesla brake fluid changes? Are the a representative of the average? Many ice manufacturers recommend 40k+ miles, but tesla recommends 30k if google is to be believed. Also, most ice cars use about a quart of oil which is just under a liter.
It's like you are a bot on all levels, literally clueless about what you are talking about.

Let's turn to your statement about kinetic energy. What proportion of that energy is regenerative energy versus purely braking energy? Do you know the difference?

>>15834623
that’s not what i said and strawmanning is a brainlet argument tactic

>>15834398
Per capita doesn't matter in a closed system (planet earth) smoothbrain. Gross pollution is all that matters. You think anyone would notice if Andorra had 5x higher per capita emissions than second place?

>>15834480
>Since 1751
Ok green chink shill

>>15834626
>ice manufacturers recommend 40k+ miles, but tesla recommends 30k
Alright so Teslas require a half a liter every 30k miles and ICEs require a quart every 40k miles. How did you want to pay me?

>Let's turn to your statement about kinetic energy. What proportion of that energy is regenerative energy versus purely braking energy?
70% to 30%

Do you know the difference?

Why is it that ignorance seems to be a mandatory characteristic of global warming believers? When pressed about any of their claims they always deflect or offer some surface-level response that shows they don't understand the underlying physics of the atmosphere.

>>15834628
Sure, kid.
>>15834521

>>15834668
>Alright so Teslas require a half a liter every 30k miles and ICEs require a quart every 40k miles. How did you want to pay me?
Teslas also take a quart to flush. Where did you get your information from?

>>15834658
That's the start of the industrial revolution, moron. What date would you prefer to start from?

>>15833873
>What has changed since then?
The Solar neutrino problem has been solved

>>15834672
No they don't, where are you getting your information from?

More importantly, how would you like to pay me?

>>15834679
>No they don't
Source: your asshole?

>>15834649
Ah yes you recognize a mildly relevant point which has no logical collection to the conclusion and then bring it up without even taking a moment to wonder why it was ignored in the first place. Classic midwit moment

National efficiency is universally measured per capita. Comparison of total military expenditures would have you think that Israelis are fucking hippies compared to Chinese people but that couldn't be farther from the truth. In a society where you at least attempt to value people equally rather than willingly enslave foreigners to work in sweatshops for your benefit you will calculate the actual magnitude of your personal negative externalities because that indicates how much a society actually contributes towards fighting climate change rather than. A rich country with trillions in capital, advanced technology, and a flexible economy unable to lower their carbon emissions per capita to even be competitive with sweatshop countries demonstrates the wastefulness that we can come to expect of industrialized nations.

Keep flying fucking planes to visit your friends a couple states away every holiday. What do you think that would look like if everyone in the world was doing it? That's the problem. Everyone in the world wants to be like us and we can't even manage it ourselves without pointing the finger at poorfags just trying to climb into the middle class.

It is acceptable and competitive to force internationally standardized carbon emission standards and hold China to them but it's wrong to look at China's total emissions and think that it's proof that we've invested and self-regulated more into the climate than they have. I'm not aware of how much effort China really has put in towards being green but they're obviously going to look like shit when they produce everything nowadays

>>15834398
>per capita
Ah yes. The ultimate statistical nonsense. More people in China + more poor poor people + more rich people in the US = US has more carbon emissions "per capita". After all, poor people don't drive cars, now do they?

I wonder which one is more polluted though? Hmmmm...
>BUT THE WEST
The West cleaned up its act. Our pollution is minuscule. It is China and India that are the major polluters now, and if you want change then start with them. The West did its part.

>>15834707
>The West cleaned up its act. Our pollution is minuscule.
No, taking a flight to the Bahamas every winter is not cleaning up your act. It doesn't matter how much cleaner your machines are if you use them 5x as much. The only "fair" way to balance this is to tax carbon emissions equally across the world. Then the holders of the most wealth will continue to pollute the most but at that point it will be a symptom of le capitalism and nothing else

If you want to continue to externalize dirty production to other countries then you can't count their emissions against them. This is an inbuilt feature of a global economy, "China" is not responsible for your purchase of high-emission materials because someone decided to make it there. We are the ones expending money and allocating capital with actual control over what gets made

>>15834742
>refers to china as “We”
pathetic how you people buy into your horrible government propaganda. i think the only reason you prop up North Korea is to facilitate the one and only place on earth where people are EVEN MORE absurdly brainwashed

>>15834765
You really lack reading comprehension. I am a white mutt American. You dumbfuck. Chinese people aren't the ones deciding what they should produce. They're making shit because we buy it

>>15833873
>carl nye the soiyence goy says global warming is real therefore its true
imagine that your best argument for a scientific claim is "tv celebrity says so"

>>15834684
What's your source? And again, the more important issue is how you would like to pay me. I'll take any crypto or cash sent in the mail.

>>15833873
nothing has changed, sea level hasn't risen a millimeter, temperatures and weather are all the same as they were back then

>>15834464
>CO2 only counts against the environment if it comes from whites.
How do the CO2 molecules know?

>>15834707
why do people confuse pollution and CO2
CO2 is harmless in current amounts in the atmosphere and will be harmless after centuries of current level of production
the only possible problem with CO2 is the alleged man caused climate change

>>15835953
>temperatures and weather are all the same as they were back then
no it fucking is not

and it does not say it will happen in 2000 but I guess you are one of those
>but I did eat breakfast today
people

>>15837059
>temperatures and weather are all the same as they were back then
It is

>but I guess you are one of those
>but I did eat breakfast today
>people
oh wow, racism, how unsophisticated and lowbrow, also against
board rules.

>>15836927
CO2 molecules know about white power

>>15833873
The scale of the psyop and it's consequences.

>>15839389
Truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial

>>15839460

>>15840449
What on that page is incorrect?

>>15834398
You're still not judging them for the same sin ie valuing profit over long term environmental effects. Here is the reason India and China are fucking up the planet, because their governments have too much control over their economies. This means their leaders can make all sorts of promises and even sign those promises into law, corruption will see all said promises swiftly undone. Another climate summit isn't going to do jiggity shit because national leaders can never enforce policies which will upset the established order. If tommorow Putin decides to end the war he will be killed and replaced. The ONLY way for us to take any sort of steps towards progress is to allow people to innovate in the free market.
> source is economic freedom index, heritage foundation.

>>15840762
thats all ok because global warming is fake, co2 is not a greenhouse gas. the current interglacial period will soon come to an end and the next ice age will commence

>>15841994
We should put more water vapor into the atmosphere to prevent an ice age.

At this point everything but geoengineering is just noise. Humans are better at adaptation than we are at mitigation anyway.

>>15833873
simple. he was wrong.
smoking weed makes some people schizphrenic and paranoid.
he was wrong. simple as.
just like the climate change alarmists today are stil wrong.
now its been weaponized by activist extremists, corrupt politicians bearacrats and corpo oligarchs to extort and control

>>15834398
have you ever stopped to consider that neither me nor the poos and chinks care about pollution?

>>15834449
energy use and standard of living are practically the same thing. Energy use and impact on the environment are practically the same thing.

Environmentalists seek to destroy our standard of living as a product of reducing human impact on the environment.

>>15842072
Lol no. Take your meds, retard.

>>15842351
No to what? That energy use and price are strongly linked to quality of life? That the harnessing of energy requires effecting the environment?

>>15833873
I always wonder what happened to the global cooling narrative. Cant we just go back and forth until we have a "good" climate kek

>>15833873
The wests mistake was exporting almost all industry to incompetent countries that cant respect standards(dont have the means or lie) just to show they are better than others. Should have kept it home boyos

>>15834770
OH NOO THE POOR CHINKS HAVE NO FREE WILL. THEY MUST PRODOOOCE

>>15842590
Both. You're posting idiosyncratic nonsense. It's very telling that your idea of high quality of life requires the destruction of the environment. I bet your cognitive dissonant ass even refers to climate science as a 'death cult'.

>>15834742
1. Global warming exists.
2. Global warming is the work of human.
3. Global warming is very dangerous.
4. I want an ocean-going yacht, a luxurious estate and a private jet.


I am an egoist? Yes. It's sad. But I'm tired of suffering from poverty. I want to live, and not stupidly exist in poverty. I “live” in the asshole of the third world, but stupid survival at the lower levels of Maslow’s pyramid is not life, it is the murder of the brain, abilities and human dignity. Only people in the West care about nature and the environment, but, I’m in the East, no one here gives a fuck about nature.

>>15841994
>posts chard that ends in the 1800s and doesn't include modern data
Why are denier shills so transparent?

>>15842828
I'm pretty sure they're just ignorant. They have no idea what "0 years before present" means and they vaguely assume that it's this year or maybe a couple years before when the graph was made. When a graph does include modern data the warming is so great and so sudden that they subconsciously deny that it could be happening and criticize it as being "Mann's hockey stick" which they were told by actual shills that Mann falsified and was later sued for.

They're just NPCs. Useful idiots. Astroturf cultivated by bad actors who know that the average person has such poor informational literacy that they couldn't find their way out of a paper bag even if the instructions were printed on the inside. They would just insist that the bag was a globalist conspiracy to make them eat bugs.

>>15842910
>They would just insist that the bag was a globalist conspiracy to make them eat bugs
Maybe if they didnt try to destroy our standards of living while they keep accumulating wealth we wouldnt be so opposed to change

>>15842944
>Maybe if capitalism didn't exist we wouldnt be so opposed to change
Welcome, my socialist brother.

>>15842954
>socialist
Even fucking worse. At least the capitalists pretend to care about (you)

>>15834430
We should just focus on fortifying ourselves and let the thirdies die. No reason to lower our standard of living so Hadeed and Mbubu can shit out another 2 billion worthless people in the next 5 years.

>>15834742
>China" is not responsible

Oh holy superman! Let everyone who loves socialism/communism and hates the West and capitalism - live in China. Let everyone who hates socialism/communism and loves the West and capitalism - live in the West

>>15843139
Capitalism doesn't pretend to care about me, capitalism really cares about me. Everything good in my life is thanks to capitalism

>>15834449

The earth is becomming noticably greener. Since the 1980s, 29% of human CO2 emissions were cancelled out by the CO2-induced greening of the Earth. The post-2000 vegetative greening expansion has been so massive (5.4 million km2) its net areal increase is equivalent to a region the size of the Amazon rainforest.
Source: 'Characteristics, drivers and feedbacks of global greening' Nature reviews earth & environment Dec 2019.

Crop yields per acre are 30% higher than in 1980. This is catastrophic we will soon be overwhelmed with food and vegetation.

>>15843315
>The earth is becomming noticably greener
Yeah, thank God the Chinese and the Indians know it takes more than carbon dioxide to grow trees.

https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/ames/human-activity-in-china-and-india-dominates-the-greening-of-earth-nasa-study-shows/

>>15843139
Nonsense, comrade. That's why they took your job and sent it to a slave labor camp. At least you get to save $0.50 on your plastic garbage.

>>15843329
>NASA
a government propaganda outlet, not a scientific organization

>>15843315
>Crop yields per acre are 30% higher than in 1980
That's mainly due to other effects than CO2 fertilisation. Higher-yield crops, better pesticides etc.
You name a few true things and imply a connection. Seems kind of disingenuous to me.

>>15844060
Only until you publish some graph that Greenland was warm in the medieval times and you think that this BTFOs climate change.

>>15844060
Can you provide evidence for that claim?

>>15844060
>>NASA
>a government propaganda outlet, not a scientific organization

should be
N ot
A
S cientific
A gency

you had one job!

>>15844687

>>15833873
How could an alleged astrophysicist be so wrong about atmospheric science? His erroneous belief about Venus being dominated by a runaway greenhouse effect led him to underestimate the actual temperature of the planet by a staggeringly large amount. Why did he believe he would be right a second time with erroneous priors?

>>15845448
You should talk to a doctor and get some medication.

>>15840762
per capita they chinks are already better than US (in yearly production of CO2 per citizen)
in absolute numbers they invest the most in nuclear, EVs and renewables
what do you people want

>>15843151
China is a capitalist state (free market, private property, etc.)
wouldn't be amazed if their market was actually more free than overly regulated western countries
scandis are more socialist than China, China has almost no support for us citizens

why can't your ilk get it through your thick skulls, they may call themselves communist, but you should know you can't trust them
it's been just a meaningless name for a long time, just like calling England a monarchy, it's just a historical holdover

china is a rapidly developing capitalist autocracy - this is why they are dangerous, especially to the idea that only democracies can prosper (if saudis weren't enough, but for them you can always cope that it's just thanks to the oil)

>>15845448
näsa means nose in swedish too so there is that

>>15845480
>alleged astrophysicist
lol, that moniker applies to black soiyence man too
they're both just propaganda mouthpieces that pose as real scientists, they say whatever their media bosses tell them to say.

>>15846233

>>15845960
I am so tired of big-pharma meat-bots like you fucker.

>>15847101
That's because you have mental illness.

>>15847203
projection

>>15847853

>>15837047
>why do people confuse pollution and CO2
Industrial pollution, agricultural pollution, plastic pollution, and CO2 pollution are all down in the west. Where are they up? China and India.
>BUT HISTORICALLY
What do you want? A time machine?

>>15833873
Did this guy ever say anything about the economic/financial system and how it relies on infinite growth?

>>15847887
>Things that happened yesterday don't matter anymore

>>15834245
>white people giving their money to third world countries
well if it makes you feel any better white countries won't be white for much longer. we'll see what the new inhabitants think of giving their money to third world countries

>>15834245
Nations that can afford to go nuclear / renewable should, those that can't afford it should be supported by 1st world investment so they can be clean and the investing nations take all profit until the debt is repaid.

>>15847937
Renewable doesn't mean "not harmful to the environment".

>>15833873
>What has changed since then?
38 years later, banks and rich people keep buying beach properties. That should tell you everything you need to know about how real this global warming bullshit is.

>>15847951
No shit.
Today CO2 is causing major issues, digging giant holes isn't great but with our current understanding there is no reason to think it is anywhere near as bad.

>>15847975
>Today CO2 is causing major issues
Like...?

>>15847987
Lowering IQ, see >>15847987

>>15847989
Thank you for conceding that CO2 isn't causing any issues.

>>15847993
I suspect there will be nothing you will take as evidence so I made a very lower effort post.
Have this
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/acidification.html

>>15847997
How do they explain the fact that all of the organisms they claim will be destroyed by ocean acidification evolved and thrived when CO2 levels were several times higher than they are today?

>>15847998
Because it changes those organisms enough that it shows in the fossil record.
https://today.tamu.edu/2021/06/14/ancient-deepsea-shells-reveal-66-million-years-of-carbon-dioxide-levels/

>>15847998
Blatantly false. Why do you feel the need to lie to protect your position?

>>15848001
You're allowed to admit you don't have an answer if you're honest. It's not like you're paid to believe what you do.

>>15848002
>if you're honest.
The irony.

>>15848000
That isn't a refutation. They clearly evolved in an era of higher CO2 and thrived in those eras long before humanity was on the scene. Nothing suggests they'll have any trouble with it today. In fact corals are thriving worldwide now that people are containing the agricultural runoff that actually hurt them.

>>15848004
>In fact corals are thriving worldwide now
Source?

>>15848003
It really is ironic that I'm trying to have an honest and forthright discussion with people who will never admit they're not all-knowing.

>>15848005
For one example, recent scientific studies have shown that the Great Barrier Reef has recovered from the bleaching caused by agricultural runoff. The reef was thought to be permanently damaged but it turned out to be quickly reversible after pollution ceased.

>>15847998
>>15848004
Are you aware that evolution is an ongoing process? It's not like pokemon. You are talking about when certain species diverged from the tree of life. Those species have never stopped evolving and they are adapted to the modern conditions of the world. Sudden climactic shifts cause mass extinctions.

You are a moron.

>>15848009
Can you link the sources?

>>15848006
>people who will never admit they're not all-knowing.
The irony.

>>15848009
>>15848004
Nonsense.

>>15848010
Your laughable claims depend on the idea that secreting calcium carbonate will become impossible for organisms that were doing exactly that in periods of intense CO2 concentration. Last I checked those organisms continue to use the same chemistry to form their growth structures.

>>15848012
>>15848013
Is seething all you have?

>>15848014
No, they do not. You're allowed to admit you don't have an answer if you're honest. It's not like you're paid to believe what you do.

>>15848015
>He said, having posted no sources for any of his unsubstantiated and absurd claims.

>>15848019
>unsourced graph
>randomly dissolving a dead shell
>this perfectly equates to living organisms
>never tests live animals
>no data
>ignores fossil record completely
The irony of your post's utter credulity is blinding.

>>15848021
You must have meant to quote >>15848019
Sorry for the mixup.

>>15848025
How hard to you have to work to overcome your cognitive dissonance? Wouldn't you be better off trying to source your claims so you can learn how wrong you are?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ece3.1756
https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1810/291598/acs.est.9b00714.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4662322/
https://research.noaa.gov/2021/01/19/acidification-impedes-shell-development-of-plankton-off-the-us-west-coast/
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0086764

>>15848026
Do you have any shred of self-awareness?

>>15848037
>trust the science

If any gifts or proficiencies or else, exist, here they are...

Using a different method

>>15848037
Does there exists a scientific experiment, which scientifically proves that the change of atmospheric CO2 composition, actually leads to a greenhouse effect?
And not with like absurd amount of CO2, but with the exact proportional composition as out Atmosphere has, then increasing it to the double and subsequently demonstrating a "wariming" effect?

Does any of the "CO2" meme ever exclude or include the influence of the asphaltation of the world?
Dos the Temperature meme ever include and correct for difference and density of weather stations arround the world and over time.

For example up until the 70s there wasn't even normed and standartized measurment techniques.
Nor did they measure all day, but only three times a day.
9am 3pm and 9pm.
Then adding all temps from each time together. Weighing the 9pm measurment twice and then taking the average.

Now they measure each hour and then take the average.
I bet my ass that there are big differences especcially if all over the world and using non-calibrated measurements.

This topic has so many holes, it is like swiss cheese.

>>15848119
Are you retarded? Do you understand what a greenhouse gas is and how it works? We have known about greenhouse gasses and their effects for more than a century now. Why don't you try to catch up?

>>15848099
>Opinions
Do you know the difference between facts and opinions?

>>15833873
We found out they're lying scumbags that just wanted to create a new industry based on scaremongering.

>>15848167
Take your meds.

>>15833873
everything got way worst... except the climate, that's still fine

>>15847937
No, they should be population braked to a useful minimum by civilized countries to minimize overpopulation in culturally poisonous and economically worthless parts of the world.

>>15847887
it's not pollution you idiot

>>15848143
CO2 isn't a significant greenhouse gas if it even is one at all

>>15848145
That's just the title of a section in the newspaper. The contents of "Op-Eds" are factual but don't represent the views of the newspaper.

>>15849075
It's the title of a section of newspaper that people use when they say things they know aren't factual because it's easier to avoid lawsuits.

>>15849525
Nonsense.

>>15849578
>Nonsense.

>>15833873
We're back to being overdue another ice age.

>>15847909
Why'd you think they're pushing so hard for it now?

>>15850656
>import the third world, become the third world
who is going to give money to third world countries when all countries are third world?

>>15847937
>those that can't afford it should be supported by 1st world investment so they can be clean and the investing nations take all profit until the debt is repaid.
not my problem

>>15833873
Since then there was a green revolution that drastically reduced particulate pollution which until then had kept the trend of natural warming slightly in check.

>>15852431
Since then we also found out that Venus has never had a "runaway greenhouse effect."

>>15833873
>What has changed
Nothing but a growing list of failed predictions.

>>15852533
>44. 1972: Pending Depletion and Shortages of Gold, Tin, Oil, Natural Gas, Copper, Aluminim
imagine claiming a gold shortage 1 year after the usa went off the gold standard

>>15848367
It is pollution, regardless of whether you are dumping toxic waste or CO2. You are putting something unwanted and/or harmful into the environment, and that is called "pollution".

>>15847908
Okay, let's talk about today. Western pollution is the lowest it has been since the industrial revolution. China and India's pollution outstrips western pollution even at its height.
So, who should we be focusing on again?

>>15853082
it's not harmful and it's not pollution
it enables life on earth
next you will call water poison because too much can kill you (as can too little)

>>15853082
>Western pollution is the lowest it has been since the industrial revolution
It's not, you just sent all the manufacturing overseas. You are responsible for all the pollution caused by manufacturing your cheap plastic garbage.
See
>>15834483

>>15853082
>>15853274
Further, the US and other western countries have the highest emissions per capita
See
>>15834449

>>15834483
Did you even read his fucking post dude ?
Get off tik tok and learn to pay attention

>>15853298
Did you even read my fucking post dude ?
Get off tik tok and learn to pay attention

>>15853082
>You are putting something unwanted and/or harmful into the environment, and that is called "pollution".
you should stop breathing, you're polluting my atmosphere with your toxic CO2

>>15833873
I don't think he was wrong based on the specific scientific findings of the time, the problem is the data didn't pan out as they thought. They believed ozone would've been a way bigger problem, but we fixed that through an initiative that honestly that wasn't a big deal.

>>15834464
I don't want to be that asshole, but I hate the excuse of "well the west got to have their industrial revolution a century ago, now it's the third world's turn".
No, if it is genuinely that big of a problem, then you don't get to have an industrial revolution, you have to suck it up and stay third world and we will force them to stay third world if necessary. That's one option, the other option is that it's not actually as catastrophic as they claim if the third world is allowed to continue.

>>15854667
>They believed ozone would've been a way bigger problem, but we fixed that through an initiative that honestly that wasn't a big deal.
They had just discovered there was a hole in the ozone and didn't yet know that it was a seasonal phenomenon caused by electrically-mediated upper-atmosphere air currents preventing circulation of ozone to the south pole.

>>15854677
It was seasonal but we were actively making it worse through mass usage of CFCs. Granted, its substitute is causing its own problems, but nothing's perfect.

>>15854688
>It was seasonal but we were actively making it worse through mass usage of CFCs.
This has never been borne out by long-term results. All of the observed variability since the ban on CFCs has been down to small weather pattern anomalies. The hole hasn't substantially grown or shrunk since it was discovered.

>>15854688
>we were actively making GE's share price worse through mass usage of CFCs instead of using GE's patented, less efficient, lower quality substitute

>>15854667
>we will force them to stay third world if necessary
No, you mean to say that we'll become third world while doing nothing to stop them.

>>15854688
The influence of CFCs was so (sorry, is so) overblown it's a textbook example of a purely masturbatory initiative.

>>15855996
Nonsense. Why even make such a baseless assertion?

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Mechanism-of-Ozone-Layer-Destruction-by-CFC-in-Stratosphere_fig4_228279972

>>15856066
We know the mechanism retard, the fact that the free radical mechanism didn't have an effect on the *actual atmosphere* is why it was such a brutal and pathetic failure.

>>15856088
Complete nonsense that you cannot substantiate.

>>15856105
>If only we had data
We do, that's why we stopped talking about it. It's an absolute fucking embarrassment

>>15856109
And yet you can't provide data that supports your argument because it doesn't exist. Sad.

Why do you feel compelled to spread lies on the internet?

>>15834430
>Asians aren't destroying shit, they are producing what the West doesn't want to
Because of money. They don't produce those things out of the goodness of their hearts, and Westerners buy those items because they're available. Ultimately the planet doesn't care, pollution is pollution whether you think it's justified or not.

>>15834508
>Since 1750.
It looks to me like China is climbing far faster than the EU or USA, in fact China looks to be increasing in speed while the EU and USA are somewhat flattening.

>>15855967
I'm talking about in a scenario where the future of humanity is taken seriously.

>>15854667
>I don't want to be that asshole, but I hate the excuse of "well the west got to have their industrial revolution a century ago, now it's the third world's turn".
>No, if it is genuinely that big of a problem, then you don't get to have an industrial revolution, you have to suck it up and stay third world and we will force them to stay third world if necessary
is this a new insane climate cult meme or something? A billion people don't have access to electricity and a billion more consume electricity equivalent to or less than a common refrigerator. And frenzied doomsday cultists who enjoy all the comforts in the world say shit like this? Those billions of poorfags don't give a shit, they see what we have and they want it too and they'll do everything in their power to obtain it. I'd do the same.

>>15856117
>Why do you feel compelled to spread lies on the internet?
The irony.

Sagan was the same guy who got famous for shilling the "nuclear winter" meme, which was also another CIA lie. If he was shilling global warming that means its guaranteed to be fake.

>>15834580
If climate change was truly an issue that could be guided through human actions, then there would be significantly more obstacles for international travel especially among civilians. World governments have airports by the neck anyway so what's stopping them?

>>15857927
global warming doesn't exist bro, its just a made up excuse to justify more powerhungriness and greed by the soiyence faggots

>>15858795
>global warming doesn't exist bro, its just a made up excuse to justify more powerhungriness and greed by the soiyence faggots
this, soience faggots are just greedy liar looking for excuses to demand handouts, they're no different or better than welfare negroes or israelis

>>15848099
>.gov """"science""""" organization publishes lie
thats their job, they're propaganda shills dressed up as scientists