/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15820207
> t. brainlet having his mind raped by statistics and the anthropic principle

>>15820217
The statistical likelihood of randomly placed inanimate chemicals forming themselves into a complex living organism is exactly zero. Not 0.0000000000000000000000000001%, no, exactly absolutely zero.

>>15820227
>randomly
except, it's not

>>15820234
Yeah I know that. This thread was meant for the midwit atheists. Let them figure that part out on their own.

>>15820227
And yet it happened. So suck it.

>>15820227
>if you put all these parts on the ground they won't be a car.
you're specifically exaggerating and misrepresenting it. that shit was under a lot of forces and chaos, shit bumping into eachother and sticking together etc.
you are misrepresenting it by taking out the exact dynamics which would make it possible for random shit to stick to random shit.

>>15820250
Random shit randomly sticking to random shit doesn’t ever magically form a functional living cell. You could wait for all eternity and try every possible variable, it won’t ever happen. Some things aren’t just unlikely, some things aren’t possible.

>>15820255
>randomly sticking
So you failed chemistry, got a D- in biology, and then watched a YouTube video on virology. Now you come to /sci/ and act like a retard.

>>15820257
Right, thank you mr. Genius, I forgot that entropy isn’t real and that chemical reactions actually work to increase the energy of the system by storing lots of potential energy as waste products like “cell walls” and “DNA” and all that other wonky bullshit. Thanks for the reminder, doctor science.

>>15820268
>I forgot
No, you just don't know shit.

>>15820269
No, no I didn’t know that, thank you for enlightening me. I guess all my chemistry and biology professors were idiots who didn’t know anything. They actually told me that entropy is REAL, that imbalanced systems naturally fall into equilibrium instead of vice versa, LMAO! Can you believe those idiots? Obviously my unsolved Rubik’s Cube will sort itself out if I just wait long enough, because y’know, we live in the reverse-entropy world now, I just now found that out. Thanks again for the insights.

>>15820244
So, a divine entity can spontaneously exist because it had an eternity to do so but life that's supposedly far less complex can't in a finite amount of time?

>>15820244
for a self proclaimed sovereign of the universe he certainly leaves a lot of "hints" and riddles like a corny comic book villain.

>>15820275
Consciousness isn’t complex at all, in fact, it’s the simplest thing there is. Nothing can define or describe consciousness except in terminology only understood by consciousness. Everything else can only be defined through conscious observation. “Green” is only an incomprehensible idea until God paints it on some tree leaves. You really don’t think that all-encompassing Mind has his own persona or will?

>>15820269
He's correct. The waste buildup in "pre cellular replicators" is a chicken before egg problem because the non permeable membrane has zero ability to selectively expel waste or absorb resources. Incredibly complex structures need to preexist for a micelle to accomplish this, but those structures cannot exist without millions of years of micelle evolution.
Here's a paper about it
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16010994/

>>15820283
Thanks, but to drill down on that, millions of years of evolution still wouldn’t select for an incrementally inconvenient adaptation. The only way that makes sense is it the evolving organism “knew” far ahead of time what the end result of that evolutionary chain would be.

>we don't know how that's possible, it's god. science explains it later "ah ok"
>rinse and repeat with literally anything and be a waste of time each and every fucking time.
>it's really about power and staying relevant, nothing else.

>>15820227
Jesus Christ! Listen to this Idiot speak with such authority as if he was there when the universe decided the different properties of matter and their interactions.

>>15820304
He's right though.

>>15820304
Funny how you have to reach for the 0.0000000000000000000000000001% chance that your dumbass theory somehow isn’t totally bat shot insane, and that yes those amino acids just so happened to randomly fall in place to form a functional living cell by complete coinkidink

if the environment permits it and it happens it's as valid as anything else that is permitted, no more and no less valid.
you cannot decide it was god just because it's "rare". how rare? under what fucking percent de we all say
>ye bro, clearly a bit under 0.00000000000000000000000000000000001%, that shit's god. ye yesterday wasn't go, was only 0.000000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000001%. almost god bruh so fucking close I swear
these morons are not mentally capable of understanding higher order concepts and models for reality, they are fucking chimps

>>15820318
Right because like the river-carved channels in the rock bed were magically absolutely perfect to micromanage the arrangement of every molecule that falls into it into the perfect shape of a living bacterium with absolutely no reason or pressure to do so, and this all had nothing to do with an intelligent designer whatsoever, lol

>>15820293
>Thanks, but to drill down on that, millions of years of evolution still wouldn’t select for an incrementally inconvenient adaptation
That's repackaging the irreducible complexity argument which evolutionists think is invalid. There's at least 2 experiments where bacteria incrementally mutated a very small set of useless genome changes over time that end-resulted in a non-natural advantage in a controlled laboratory setting (ie it would offer no advantage in nature). They think that means IR is defeated.
The main counter argument is that the new lineages are incredibly "sickly" compared to the originals, along with a few other reasons, and would immediately go extinct in nature. Evolutionists just ignore this fact and say in nature enough specimens would exist to "eventually adapt" without also becoming sickly. It's a very weak counter but it's what they believe. You can't fix zealotry

Look fells all I’m saying is that when your theory is infinitely less than 0.0000000000000000000000000001% probable, maybe it’s time to consider that maybe the thing that’s 99.99999999999999999999999999% probable is more likely the thing that actually happened.

>>15820330
Like God of course.

>>15820345
Right, exactly. Your sarcasm indicates you’re still a century behind the science.

>>15820349
Bait rated: Adequate.

There's just no way Hydrogen just spontaneously came into existence. That's just insane. You expect me to believe massless virtual particles in the tiniest ball of hot ethereal soup all just decided one day to to come together to form quarks and gluons and electrodes and shit
and these then decided to form protons and neutrons and and atoms????

LMAO Never gonna happen by itself. Can't be done.

>>15820356
Hey I’m trying to bait you into thinking beyond the mold, it’s for your good not mine. You’ve been taught that the most improbably circumstance is the one that happened, simply because the people that taught you that imagine that the incredibly likely scenario is somehow “impossible,” simply because they don’t understand it.

>>15820362
This but unironically.

>>15820363
Sorry I swear I’m not foreign I’m just a bit stoned and posting with iPhone autocorrect

>>15820363
See ->>15820356
For further reference.

>>15820207
you're right
they have to go through the self-replicating molecule stage for a billion years or so before becoming an organism

>>15820364
yes it can if all variations have been made just like this version, and out of all this made (this) sense and lead up to us having this retarded discussion.
why do you insist in not doing ANYTHING ELSE if you just cannot grasp certain ideas?

>>15820376
Slow down and take your antipsychotics bro.

>>15820364
Yeah bro like protons aren't even real. 99% of a proton's mass-energy is from virtual particles which don't even exist. Protons aren't real.

>>15820389
Sarcastically babbling about unprovable schizoid mathematics is actually doing the opposite of what you think it's doing.

>>15820375
A billion years of disadvantageous selection to get to an unforeseen desirable result? Ok schizo

>>15820245
>And yet it happened

Of course it's impossible to spontaneously form some bacterium from a chemical soup. In reality what happened was more like chemicals formed into amino acid precursors which then self assembled into rudimentary proteins, which then over millions of years these proteins formed "organisms" which were probably more like cellular atomata, and slowly these formed the ancestors of modern bacteria, plants, animals, etc.

The only part which wasn't deterministic was the beginning, everything after that, the emergence of complex life, was deterministic.

>>15820323
The best part is these spontaneous generation schizo shills can't make any sort of novel life in the lab themselves yet expect others to buy into their crackpot theory that "it just happens bro *hits the pipe*"

>>15820519
>amino acid precursors
Name them
>rudimentary proteins
Name 3 of these "rudimentary proteins"
>master class bullshitter starts pulling some more bullshit out his ass after taking a massive hit from his bong incoming...

>>15820547
It's impossible to know exactly how it happened. Modern microorganisms are so prevalent that they would just consume any new primordial molecules which might arise, even in a lab. However, we don know how self assembling systems would work in nature:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-97RhAZhXI&t=87s

Just saying it's probably a better explanation than saying some sky daddy popped the world into existence 2000 years ago.

>>15820547
>Name them
No. Now what.

Didn't someone already reproduce this in a lab like 50 years ago? You just need a certain atmosphere and lightning

>>15820632
No that experiment was debunked shortly after publication.

>>15820694
I don't think it was

>>15820700
You're allowed to be wrong about anything you want, anon. It's a free country.

>>15820694
Link to where it was deboonked? No religious sites

>>15820217
go ahead and explain how its possible

>>15820557
>Just saying it's probably a better explanation than saying some sky daddy popped the world into existence 2000 years ago.
Still waiting for a counter to Aquinas’ contingency argument, cuckthiest.

>>15820617
>Now what.
You lose

>>15820227
that's cool what's your source for the "exactly zero" figure, you must be quoting a reputable paper to be so confident about it

>>15820244
Everyone is laughing at you.

>>15821489
That’s cute.

>>15820557
>It's impossible to know exactly how it happened
>It's impossible to know exactly how God did it
So it's a god of gaps fallacy except with evolution
The "evolution of gaps" fallacy
>However, we don know how self assembling systems would work in nature:
Firstly, no we don't. Secondly, systems are irrelevant without providing a means for individual components
That's like someone from the 15th century pretending to know how a computer processes binary by looking at a high level block diagram. It's nothing more than magic to them and so are your beliefs about the supposedly natural origin of life.

>>15821182
>You lose
I know you have.

>>15820313
>you have to reach for the 0.0000000000000000000000000001%
goes to show how retarded your sky daddy cope that is infecting the world isnt it kek

>Showing a highly evolved organism with numerous complex structures like flagella and peptidoglycan instead of a self-replicating ribozyme and a liposome
NGMI

>>15822522
>liposome
Whoops I meant micelle please laugh at me

>my brain is too small to process time scales greater than my own brief, feeble existence

>>15820325
>controlled laboratory setting
Looks like an creationist argument.

Man, this thread sure is full of wise and intelligent people. I sure am glad we are alive here at this moment when science has the whole world figured out and is correct about everything.

>>15820207
the first organism was definitely not a cell created by randomly arranged amino acids or whatever
it probably had an ancestor that was so basic that it wouldn't be considered as a living thing by modern definition

>>15820207
bubbles form spontaiously .... all the time

pro tip energy levels

>>15820207
proofs?

Nothing, not even all of existence, has 'been around for 100 trillion year'. The universe was born 70 years ago. It's just a simulation.

god did it LOL

>>15822963
If the Earth was untouched. There would be life bubbles. There's risks to putting exo planets in systems, they might touch other planets during an untouched build up.

>>15820727
nobody is going to read supplementary coping guides for a jewish fiction book lmao.

>>15820632
So you casually assume we already recreated abiogenesis? We're not even sure about the most basic components of a protocell my guy

>only 70 replies in
>already gave up juggling the zeroes
>evolution of gaps cope already brought up
>Barkfag already in the thread
creationist bros, it's not going well for us...

>>15820227
Prove it faggot. I'll be here waiting.

>>15823197
>tfw

>I can’t comprehend how life could form on its own.
>Therefore god did it

It’s too funny.

Also just for kicks
>life was clearly intelligently designed, don’t worry about all those examples that are clearly unintelligent and only make sense if evolution occurred

How did mountains form? How did all those atoms spontaneously form to become a mountain? How did the atoms at the top of the mountain know how to get there? Clearly god made them

>>15820207
>Infinite multiverses of matter shitting everywhere with tons of time + anthropic principle

=humans.

>>15822575
>Looks like an creationist argument.
Facts are intelligent design arguments?
Nah. The strains of bacteria would rapidly go extinct in nature, fact. There's even evidence their genomes are falling apart in the delicate and controlled laboratory setting. Evolution can only make things worse, not better.
There's a similar concept in viruses. Influenza is slowly destroying its genome via evolution and might expunge itself from the human resevoir permanently in the future (and it's not due to herd immunity they accounted for that).
Evolution can only make things worse, not better.

>>15820279
take your meds. you're not god.

Gaytheists have never even proven evolution of bacteria.

E.coli A becoming E.coli B is not evolution.
Show me E. Coli turning in to Staph.
>b-but that also takes millions of years!!!

So it takes millions of years for the evolution of single celled "simple" organisms and you expect me to believe man came from ape ancestors only 2 million years ago?

>>15823949
Chimpanzees and humans share not only around 98% of their dna but also a lot of EVRs viruses

You just have to make your petri-dish really energetic so that you can simulatr a big bang, then wait 10 billion years and there you go.

>>15820207
I'm pretty sure they already recreated this in the lab like 15 years ago.
>>15820227
What does "complex" mean to you? Because you don't go from amino-acids to bacteria directly, but there's a way between them.

>>15824038
>I'm pretty sure they already recreated this in the lab like 15 years ago.
No such experiment has ever produced life, though there have been many attempts.

>>15824038
>I'm pretty sure
They haven't. You're just another soidrinking pleb who slurps up whatever garbage is put out by pop-sci.

>>15820207
The Earth is 4.5 billions years old, life is 13.7 billions years old at the very least. Life is a relic of the early universe.

God planted dinosaur bones in the earth to test our faith (this is legit what one Gesus freak told me)