/sci/ - Science & Math

Welcome fellow nerds, losers, incels and volcels. Enjoy your stay : )

Could a specialisation in Geostatistics for Reservoir Modeling potentialy offer a good salary in the oil and gas industry? I'm thinking about doing a related diploma thesis. How desirable is that skill in general? I understand it definitely needs a lot of work. Thanks a lot in advance.

>>15806631
michael jackson is looking weird.

>>15806631
Ngl, you're better off looking somewhere else for advice or doing you're own research for such a specific question.
But going off a brief internet search, you're looking going to be working in oil rigs in the Gulf Coast or Saudi Arabia so you're bound to make bank. But it's a pretty niche job. Maybe tr expanding a bit like going into weather/natural disasters or city planning. But idk.

Holy fucking shit bros my department just got wiped out, it's just me, my manager and some other dude left.
This department (R&D) had nearly 100 people in it too, how the fuck did I get out of this unscathed jesus christ.

does the field of my master thesis matter when looking for a industry job later on? Doing particle physics right now because its comfy and faster than the thin film one.

>>15806623
Previous thread: >>15781249

CV guides:
>https://hwpi.harvard.edu/files/ocs/files/hes-resume-cover-letter-guide.pdf
>https://www.careers.cam.ac.uk/applying-for-jobs/cvs-and-cover-letters (For the UK and their former colonies)

>>15806724
https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/14038/what-is-the-significance-of-the-master-thesis-topic-and-quality-when-you-apply

I wanto to get a PhD in physics, but I'm apprehensive about what comes afterwards

>>15806722
Are you good-looking?

>>15806728
Do you want to keep doing physics or do you want to make a little bit more $$$?

>>15806729
Absolutely not, and all the HR roasties got laid off months ago anyway.

>>15806731
That depends. Will physics pay me enough to replace my old shitbox and start thinking about buying a house?

>>15806726
so kinda important well I am fucked then guess will have to be a code monkey...

>>15806721
I get you. Thanks. I have done some research but opinions from anons here is very welcome as well.
>>15806690
heh, honestly i don't get how you could make this association.

>>15806722
Maybe you're bretty gud at your job and still useful? If i were you though, i'd start planning ahead in case shit hits the fan. Take a look at the job market of your sector just to have an idea of how things are going on maybe? Good luck.

>>15806728
Are you interested in following an academic career or maybe working on a research institute or something?

>>15806722
>my department just got wiped out
How did that happen??

>>15806725
The FAQ is updated and will be posted this afternoon, and include those links.

>>15806623
Is a geology degree a retarded idea?

>>15806956
I'd say no, but you need to take a look at the job market to ensure you know where to look for a job (and this applies to pretty much everyone). It's a good basis for a MSc degree as well, like Geophysics, Geochemistry or even Geothermal Energy. You could potentialy work on mineral deposit exploration for example.

OK so. I've been 5 years in Math undergrad education, I accepted there's no way I can pass in the limited time-frame I was given (I can't repeat another year, I'm sure I could pass if I was given another year but they won't give it to me.)

So now my options are studying Physics or Electrical Engineering. What are the perks of one over the other? Unexpectedly for anyone wondering, I have a more concrete idea of what jobs I could get as a Physics major than as an Electrical Engineer, as I know a company that hires Mathematicians and Physicists for data analysis/data science.
But I don't know of where do EEs work, I like signal processing and embedded systems but it seems there are no factories where I live where I could work as an EE.

I'm a bit more inclined to do Physics than EE because of how it may be more related to Math than EE, and because of the schedule I would have to go through (in the morning rather than in the evening.)

I'm mexican btw if that matters.

>>15806786
Honestly both sound good to me. I'm also content to make weapons for Uncle Sam.

>>15807070
I have a Bachelor's in physics and I've switched to EE now, so maybe I can weigh in on this.
First, why did you not manage to pass in path? Was it too abstract? It's possible you might encounter similar problems in a Physics major. You said you would have passed with more time, but you also have to consider it might not be a good look on your resume if you take too much time on your second attempt, too. There might also be grade requirements at those companies you mentioned, you should check on their websites.
Are there any courses that you could skip in a physics degree because you already did them in math? You should ask your university about this, in my case there was some overlap between EE and Physics, allowing me to save some time.
Then you have to really think about what kind of job you want to do. I personally made the switch because despite enjoying physics I didn't want to be a scientist, I want something more practical. Do you want to do data analysis or similar things for the rest of your life? EE would open the doors to other kind of jobs. I also don't believe you'll lack job opportunities with an EE degree, although I don't know the situation where you are. Have you considered moving to another area?
Regarding the (dis)advantages of one field over the other: I would say that EE is one of the most versatile degrees. There are lots of completely different areas you can go into like computers, power, telecommunications and electronics just to name a few. You can get many different jobs with a physics degree, too, but: If you're not doing science, these jobs will mostly be unrelated to physics and might require additional qualifications or a particularly good GPA. You can do data analysis as an EE (especially if you've got prior math experience), but you can't do most EE jobs with just a physics degree.
Again, the most important factor is what kind of job you want to do.

>>15807258
*math not path

>>15806828
UPDATE:
The FAQ is now updated to 1.32, and the document is now just over 120 KB in size. Big thanks to all who have contributed.

This general and the FAQ started in October 2020, so this month is a 3 year anniversary.

>>15806781
>Maybe you're bretty gud at your job and still useful?
According to my manager, it's because I was able to solo projects and because of the internal tools I made for my department and shared with the finance folks. Feels like I won the wageslave competition.

>Take a look at the job market of your sector just to have an idea of how things are going on maybe?
Job market shat itself a year ago and now it has hemorrhoids. I have this position guaranteed for another 2 quarters minimum according to the boss man.

>>15806824
>How did that happen??
The company has been making cuts for almost a year now. A cost-saving measure was made to cut back on all R&D that wasn't related to their core technology, so all teams were scaled down, several execs got exit offers, departments combined, and now mine got completely cut. What's left (me and two others) are being rolled in with the main branch.

On the bright side, I now have wfh until January.

>>15807258
>First, why did you not manage to pass in path? Was it too abstract?
I may have ADHD. This year I'm unmedicated (for that), it's a bit complicated, but my mind is a bit fucked up compared to last year and I'm recovering from psychosis... I was doing fine until that happened. With time my mental speed might come back but not this year, so I even went as far as trying software engineering but that is too boring for me compared to math and physics.

This year I tried to keep going with Math, but it was too boring and I couldn't concentrate. I liked analysis and how it might be related to signal / image analysis, but didn't care much about algebra and topology. I can't keep up nowadays for my health condition. I figured maybe if physics is based around calculus and intuitive things I may be more engaged and interested to do it despite having low concentration.

From EE I don't like power and electronics but I would like the low level programming and telecommunications. Although I don't see job opening for EE things I'm interested in where I live.

I would enjoy more to study physics or math than EE just because there are less "filler" subjects, and in EE I'm going to have the courses at the evening... So thinking about my time actually studying I kind of don't want EE, but professional-wise I like EE.

I got offered a Liner Hanger Field Engineer I position at Weatherford. I'm a fresher Mech Eng graduate so I got no experience or knowledge, and I have never worked in a rig before. The pay is decent but it is below the industry standard, but the field bonus and such will make it up I suppose. I'm just worried about the workload, I'll be 6 weeks on and 3 weeks off, so for 42 days straight I'll be working 12 hour shifts. This is what's bugging me, the long rotation and the long shifts.
Any advice? I'm honestly not sure if I should go for it or not, but this is the first offer I got since graduating a bit over a year ago.

>>15808041
You've been out of school for a year and doing what? Nothing? You should take the job. If it doesn't work out then just go back home. 12 hour days are brutal you are going to hate your life but at least you'll be working and making some money instead of just sitting around jacking off all day.

>>15806769
If you just do Leetcode while doing your passion project, you'll succeed.
>Aerospace engineer who's master's was Mat Sci

>>15807070
>But I don't know of where do EEs work, I like signal processing and embedded systems but it seems there are no factories where I live where I could work as an EE.
Qualcomm does a lot of DSP work and is located in San Diego which is close.

>>15808257
Seems Qualcomm is not the right place to start just now:
>Qualcomm To Shed Over 1,000 Staff In California
https://archive.is/fUfAp
>Chip designer Qualcomm has revealed it intends to shed over 1,000 California-based employees, delivering on previously foreshadowed plans to address its economic woes.
>Qualcomm reported a near-sixty-percent profit plunge in August – largely due to a slowdown in demand for smartphones leading to lower sales of its silicon for such devices.
>At the time, CEO Cristiano Amon told investors "We're taking a conservative view of the market, and we'll be proactively taking additional cost actions."
>[...] Execs, including vice presidents, will be axed. So will hundreds of engineers: reportedly more than 750 of them. Qualcomm employs about 50,000 globally, up from 45,000 in 2021, the year it bought Nuvia.
>Cruelly, the ax will fall starting from December 13.

>[...] Demand for engineers is high elsewhere: Taiwan's TSMC has flagged its intention to hire thousands of engineers.

>>15807430
Another update, I missed this link
>https://www.careers.cam.ac.uk/applying-for-jobs/cvs-and-cover-letters
which was posted in >>15806725.

So once again the FAQ i updated:
https://sciencecareergeneral.neocities.org/

I need a new career
>chemist in Sydney Australia
>worked in industry half a decade
>currently in academia
>realise even the top job salaries are earning less than all my software and engineer friends who are at or below my seniority level
I kind of knew this would be the case but I figured I'd at least earn enough. Nope with the crazy cost of living in this city a chemist salary won't even let me rent a 2 bedroom apartment for <40% of my + wife's income.
The work itself isn't even interesting/rewarding enough to justify it, at the end of the day it's still a job and I'm working to make someone else richer and god knows there's no respect for scientists.
Anyone know chemists/scientist who successfully started their own business or somesuch thing?

Hiring is starting to slow for CS grads.
I have Math/CS degree. What do? What's an adjacent field I could start to look into?

I'm a math major with cs minor, how do I apply to work at hedge funds and shit so I can make 300k starting?
my friend told me about actuary path, that's what he's doing. So I might take those exams too if I don't get an offer after graduating

>>15809687
that's what i was interested in but i've heard it can be an incredibly stressful job,

>>15809770
Wow that sucks, maybe I will just get a masters and teach community college.

>>15808041
Like an oil rig?

Do it. If you’re young, do it. You suck it up for 3 years. Go hardcore and do a 12 week on 4 week off rotation. Spend your month off in a thirdie country like Thailand or Cambodia where you can live cheap. Save save save. At the end of your 3 years you’ll have enough cash to buy a house outright or stock a 401k that you’ll never have to make a contribution again.

>>15809681
Top performers are still getting hired, but assuming you're not in the top 5 or even 10% then you'd probably want to look towards the consulting industry (business analyst positions and etc.), public sector or defense.
Government spending tends to go up during recessions, so the above tend to be the least affected hiring wise.
Last resort is military, they hire plenty of software and math people but at considerably lower rates.

>>15809687
>how do I apply to work at hedge funds
Attend a target school.

>permanent research post in an institute
Or
>do another postdoc but this time in Switzerland and for 2-3x the pay
Bros I'm tired of moving country/city/life all the time, but stability comes at a pay cut

>>15810281
>Attend a target school.
No I don't go to target university, I go to state school.
No one in my family is rich, half of them are drug addicts or in prison. I'm only at uni because I was a savant or some bullshit.

I thought ME jobs were plentiful. I've quite literally applied to all entry level ME positions in the US already, no responses.

boomer anon here that graduated 7 years ago and took the FE last week for the first time, I passed yay now I can do PE

>>15810688
Then hedge funds are not for you. Try a different industry.

>>15810740
Have you tried an internship? It might help. idk about the US specifically desu.

Is it possible to make enough money on the side during grad school to not be in complete poverty? The vast majority of my stresses would be eliminated if I didn't live on babbys first slave wages in a HCOL area

>>15809687
>work at hedge funds
My understanding is that you start at the bottom, as an analyst. That involves long hours but is where yo build your reputation as someone who has the insight, can connect the dots faster than the competition and can sense the pulse of the future.

>>15810688
>I'm only at uni because I was a savant or some bullshit.
You are the change we need to see.

>>15806623
Why doesn't /sci/ have its own division of anons for sourcing and setting up people for contract work? We have threads aplenty that discuss self learning.

>>15811013
How can we do that while remaining anonymous?
We do however see posts about specific companies and professions.

>>15811021
That's.. yeah, remaining anon would be a problem. I wish there were a better way other than relying on the far too real HR roastie gatekeeper meme.

>>15810959
they all start during the summer, I don't want to waste the next 8 months waiting for them to begin

>>15811013
If I ever ran a company I'd never hire an anon

Anyone else trying to get a job?
Is it just me or is it brutal out there now?
I've been trying for months, probably 500 applications, and nothing but ghosts or rejections. I see the same roles getting posted over and over again and they won't even give me a look. It's like they're happy just leaving stuff open until their dream applicant appears.

>>15806623
ME freshman here, been out of school 16 years. Holy fucking shit, taking precalc and a support class to get back up to speed and while I can grasp the concepts easily it feels like my brain is struggling to put that logic into practice. Why the fuck did I choose engineering over psychology?? Lol

>>15811339
Poor hiring market now. You either know someone or don't get a job. A few reasons:

>most mfg has been outsourced due to price and is returning at a very slow rate
>you can hire 1000 entry levels since they crank out like fucking shredded cheese, but none will ever be as valuable as mid or senior level personnel (the actual valuable hires)
>experienced engineers are in short supply, not freshies with no functional knowledge of industry
>grunt work is in higher demand than ever, companies don't run when everyone's being paid big bucks in suits
>financial downturn on the horizon, lots of FUD
>the only jobs are in software/ai/crypto/big data enormous silicon valley techfag cuck bullshit
>da j00z

>>15811403
It doesn't help that I'm totally incompetent.
I was led to believe that the US was this amazingly wealthy place where even incompetent retards like me could skate by and get 6 figures for being a bench warmer but now things seem to be getting ruthless.

>>15807787
>From EE I don't like power and electronics
Power will actually help you in telecom somewhat and so will electronics. While you won't be interacting with these subjects they'll at least help you understand when you're doing the actual telecomm stuff.
>>15811339
What degree? You might just be SOOL.
>>15811412
>get 6 figures
I wish, entry engineers make mid to upper 5 figures. Salaries haven't kept up with inflation at all.

>>15811416
>What degree? You might just be SOOL.
EE

I am not built for university life. I am stressed every single day, and I think my hair my be falling out. I was born to be a NEET, reading old books and staying in my room. Is it even worth it to go through hell and possibly get a hellish job indefinitely just to make enough money for me to live?

>>15811432
It sucks but the alternative is even worse. You have to learn a way to make it work for you. You might have to do some changing as a person.

>>15811432
If you're around 200lbs and not taking meds try 500mg of L-theanine in the morning and 1200mg of NAC and 1200mg of glycine. Do your research but this combo FUCKING WORKS and even better when paired with lowish doses of caffeine or SIPPING soda.

You have to do it daily for a week but it will bring out a motivated and happy you with little stress, everything else is meditation, thought recognition and breathe work.

>>15811431
What'd you study in EE? Or is it a general EE degree?

>>15810806
I mean I was just throwing it into the air. I don't even know what a hedge fund really is. Whoever needs a bean counter and will give them money, whatever. Just not really crazy about going to grad school.
My math advisors and mentors all think I should go, but I just kind of sick of being so fucking penniless. I was looking around to order books and it's so expensive. Like I don't want to wait until Christmas when I'm almost 30 to ask Santa for some math books.

>>15811432
>I think my hair my be falling out.
are you taking a lot of caffeine like in energy drinks? and are you not sleeping well?
I used to pound like 3-4 energy drinks instead of sleeping and my hairline started receding.
What are you studying? The answer of whether it's worth it is usually dependent on that
if you're studying computer science then fuck no your degree is worthless unless
if you're studying because it interests you then really fuck no you can read books at home
if you're studying to be a teacher and land a sweet tenure position then it's what you have to do
if you're studying to be a doctor then yes because medical schools do not accept anyone without a bachelor's degree
if you're studying because mommy and daddy said so, well shits the tits, you gotta do what you gotta do.

>>15811453
uhmm just have a varied diet you weirdo

>>15811453
>L-theanine and glycine
I can try these, and they seem available and very easy to get
>NAC
>prescription only
>>15811486
>are you taking a lot of caffeine like in energy drinks? and are you not sleeping well?
I'm not taking any caffeine but I am sleeping like shit
>What are you studying?
Engineering. I'm good at math and I don't hate the material, It's just whenever I start any homework problems or especially when I enter a classroom for the lecture I get really stressed out.

shit my linkedin premium trial ends in like 9 days and I didnt really do anything with it
Maybe I'll just make a new account

>>15811477
The standard ABET curriculum that every EE studies.

I'm dropping out of my master's program because I can't afford it. Our education system is fucked.

>>15811555
Well yeah but in most unis your senior year you'd be able to pick and choose certain classes, like specifying power or embedded systems or signal processing.

>>15810392
Don't the Swiss have large tax rates? How much of that larger paycheck are they taking?

>>15806741
In short, no. Unless you graduated from a very prestigious uni.

>>15811568
I honestly don't even remember what I took and I graduated '22. It's all just a blur of migraines, stress, taking pictures with my phone of 25 page homework assignments to upload as pdfs, and vomiting.

>>15811576
Switzerland has a famously low tax rate and high income per capita. The dig is that everything is ludicrously expensive. I went to Zürich and was paying 55 bucks for a normal entree and drink at normal restaurants just for myself, fucking absurd shit.

>>15811586
They do it on purpose to gatekeep niggers.

>>15811479
I honestly don't think hedge funds are for people that didn't attend top tier unis if you're going in to do maths and shit. I don't know how strict they are for their engineering people, but I doubt its as cut throat seeing how they recruit people from the defense side for the HFT work. I'm hoping to pivot myself that way since I work with FPGA's already and shit.

>>15811140
I would. Then again quite a few of my colleagues are on the spectrum and at least one casually admitted to being a battle hardened veteran of/pol/.

>>15811339
Yes, it is brutal and you should assume that more than half the job ads are fake.

should i try to pursue a career in science if im almost 30, have never achieved anything, never studied, and dumb as fuck?

What point is there to learning MATlab if it is so expensive? Give me back those hours god damn it... I will probably never touch it after graduation..

I'm never going to touch grass again am I

>>15811479
Well during recessions employment goes down and grad school applicants go up, for obvious reasons. It's an insurance policy, and it's a lot better than being unemployed. So if your advisors can get your foot in the door for a funded grad program, then that's honestly not a bad deal especially in this job market.

>>15811800
The company you work at pays for the license, not you.

>>15811800
If you study an engineering disciple, chances are it will be useful at some point.

>>15811789
Loads of dumbasses have achieved stuff. Stay focused and organise well. Look into the job market and study something that will give you a solid chance of getting a decent job.

Unemployment among academics is increasing rapidly also in Sweden:
https://www.elinor.se/arbetslosheten-okar-bland-akademiker.html/
Y-O-Y the increase is 8 percent.

>>15812546
>tydligt tecken på att lågkonjunktur och tuffare tider är på väg
No fucking shit, journalistjäveln är senil om han inte fattade det än.

Also an added note, "academics" in this context refers to anyone with a university degree (or to be even more precise, union members with at least 5/6ths of a bachelors degree).

What do I do, when I read math books and wrap my head around the equation I just get this "block" like my own logic is wrestling with the logic their presenting in the book and then in the examples they'll throw out these random numbers into the equation without explaining where it is or where it came from. Ontop of that some of these newer textbooks are fucking trash. Also is it me or do men make better math teachers?

>>15811995
fine but I'm only doing it if the school waives my tuition.
I'm sick of fucking paying money.

Any tips on recovering from university making me dumber?
I honestly used to be a fairly bright guy but the education system made me retarded. The problem is I no longer have the ability to retain information. In university, the workload was so overwhelming that I was constantly locked in this cram->dump->cram->dump cycle. I would frantically cram for the next big test/project/whatever, then immediately brain dump everything as soon as it was over to begin working on the next thing. After 4 years of this conditioning I no longer internalize information anymore. It's in one ear and out the other.

>>15812736
A lot of textbooks aren't that great, especially when you get past the first and second year courses.
Honestly it's sometimes easier to cross-reference with another book or even stack exchange.

>>15812759
Yeah paying for grad school is not a good move.

>>15812774
Go back to your roots. I started picking up my old hobbies from when I was a teen and it's reset my brain or something.

>>15812774
You shouldn't have to cram to pass college in stem

>>15812782
It wasn't uncommon for me to have 8 or 9 upcoming deadlines per week.

>>15812778
>>15812736 #
A lot of textbooks aren't that great, especially when you get past the first and second year courses.
Honestly it's sometimes easier to cross-reference with another book or even stack exchange

>yeah that's what I've been doing. I'm having a preference for books made in the 90s as they explain them better because you couldn't just go on YouTube or Google to check your answer. It's fucking hard finding legitimate info without a bunch of filler or the publishers attempt to be culturally relevant. Would love a book that's pure math but not Lange type in depth.

>>15811584
I'm going to assume just a general EE degree then. Try defense contractors and just spam resumes to them. It will require you to move out to the middle of nowhere typically but it's better than having no job. Also get your FE exam done even if you're not going to do your PE. It's better than nothing.

Just failed out of my engineering PhD program. Still want to be a researcher. Now what?

Lost funding but wasn't formally kicked out.

>>15812861
Try again, or go into industry, either one works.

>>15812782
>have an assignment due in 3 hours
>professor doesn't teach lecture, no time to learn on my own except to cram some random equations
>repeat for most of my other classes

>>15812974
Yeah that's going to be the reality in industry, though the projects won't be due in 3 hours more so 3 weeks. Either way there's a lot of self learning involved unless you're lucky to have a mentor there to teach you the industry standards and procedures to cut down on the time and to check you on your recommendations etc. While the theory and knowledge you learn in university is needed, vast majority of what you apply is learned on the job.

>>15812861
Did you at least get a masters out or just outright leave with nothing?

>>15812861
Be someone's research bitch

>>15812861
Did it take you more than the standard 6 years?

>>15806956
Be sure to get certified for your state

Tips for sneaking into a lab?

>>15813048
Our labs used to be in an old shitty building made in the 60s which you could walk into through the front door. Door was unlocked until 8pm and there wasn't a reception or anything. Lab area was immediately after the entrance, there were no locks on lab doors and even shit that was meant to be under lock and key e.g. the poison storage unit just had the lock always in the key. No cameras or security guards in the building. There were enough different groups/people/visitors that a single random person would not have raised too many eyebrows as long as you weren't acting suspicious.

They did at least implement round-the-clock locking of the front door during my time there. Prior to that it would have been very easy for a random person to walk in after 6pm when most people are gone, just walk into a lab, pick up some very interesting substance and walk out the door with a fairly small chance of ever getting caught.

>>15813012
Basically this, and it'll be really hard to even do that considering your name will be on their shit.

>>15813048
be allowed to be there at all then it'll be pretty easy

>>15812633
>No fucking shit, journalistjäveln är senil om han inte fattade det än.
The editors in Elinor is very happy to talk about politically untouchable topics. Someone (astroturfing SJW types) tried to cancel them but the attempt was defeated. There is still real justice in the world.

Seems a career in consulting is getting harder:
https://archive.is/qSZst
>Deloitte axing 150 graduate consulting jobs
>The cuts are part of a wider round of 800 redundancies announced by the Big Four firm in September. An internal presentation to staff delivered last month and seen by the Financial Times shows that first- and second-year analysts in the firm’s consultancy and advisory business will bear the brunt of the reductions.

>>15812825
I'm not sure what level of maths you are doing, but I think The Anatomy of Mathematics by Kershner & Wilcox from 1950 might help you out, you should be able to pick up a second hand copy for about 5-10 bucks.
The examples in the book are extremely basic with zero filler, and it trades depth for rigor.

>>15813010
Already have one in a similar field, not sure if another one is worth anything. I might pursue if it's minimal effort.

>>15813204
Not sure what this means. Do you mean I'm stuck with the original lab, or the original PI will hold sway over me forever due to shared authorship?


Advisor singled me out for not spending every waking moment at the lab. Nobody in the lab works these hours (70+/week), I think they didn't like me or ran out of funding.

>>15813517
>>15813027
Less than that. But I already had a masters.

I am wasting my life away just waiting for stuff. Waiting for job app updates, waiting for new job openings. They all take order of magnitude of weeks and months.

>>15813627
Then stop being a nigger and do something productive with your downtime.

>>15813627
read more romcom manga in your downtime. here i'll recommend a few to read We Swore to Meet in the Next Life and That's When Things Got Weird!, Densetsu no Yuusha no Konkatsu, Osananajimi ga Mamasugite Tsurai, and Kawaii Hito (SAITOU Ken) should be enough to get you started.

>>15813517
There is no benefit in pursuing another masters degree. The point is that it looks better on your CV if you masters out of your PhD program rather than straight up dropping out.

>>15813749
>imagine having such shit taste
ishygddt

At least read Atsumare! Fushigi Kenkyu-Bum, Iji-ranaide Nagatoro-san, or Uzaki-Chan Wa Asobitai! instead you faggot

>>15813835
>ongoing series
no thanks. maybe if they ever end i'll read them.

Currently working as an RF engineer 1 after getting my masters, what would an EE phd get me in this field?

>>15813372
Yeah the whole consulting sector is freezing raises, firing, etc. I think they’re anticipating a recession by 2024. M&A sector is cooling too (which you probably know since you read ft). Guess the move is to get into restructuring & turnarounds

>>15813869
In my experience, a headache!!!

I work for a small consulting firm. How do I take the next step and get involved with the business side of things? I'd like to grow the company and get us more contracts

>>15814102
Upsell before/after closing contracts. Based on the current project, figure out what other contract can follow up on the first one.
>There you go, we installed your new cloud server. You just need to connect it to your data management platform. Oh what's that? You don't have one? Well we have a guy here let me just make a quick call

What is more important, a good job in STEM or a gf?

im getting a bachelor of science in technical communication, you niggers need to write better im astonished by how many technically capable people ive met who can hardly string a sentence together let alone spell.

Thoughts on working for an EPC company?

>>15814099
Har har gramps, I believe it which is why I'm trying to see what I'd gain.

>>15811339
Work on some personal projects and put them on your resume. Also, go over your resume on reddit to make sure you have the trusted format TM so you won't get filtered by the ATS system. Just stay busy incase you get an interview and they ask you
>what have you been doing since you graduated?
you don't want to say, uuuh idk twiddling my thumb doing fuck all?

Anyone else seeing this trend of the same exact job being posted by multiple (4, 5, even 6) different staffing agencies?
Wonder how this is affecting the "stats" for the job market

>>15814130
Good job in STEM will help in getting a gf.

Anyone know of a better source of pdfs of older codes and standards? Looking for the NESC-2017 to prep for Power PE exam and I really don't want to pay for a 7 year old code if I dont have to (especially since its not an open book test anymore)

>>15814397
But by the time I graduate and start wage slaving, where will I meet the girls?

>>15814397
You have it backwards. Having a gf helps you get the good jobs in STEM because it proves to the hiring team that you are a normie.
Once you start working, the hardest part isn't the technical work, it's trying to conceal your mental disorders and pretending you are a normal person on a daily basis.

>>15814450
Bars in college towns.

>>15814450
You only need one anon. Find someone for yourself not some random girl

What's a normal timeline to get hired? I had an interview 5 weeks ago, they spoke to my references 1-2 weeks ago, and now I'm just waiting anxious for an offer to come (or not). I was thinking of emailing them on Monday morning to see how it's going. This is for a research staff position at a university in the US since that probably matters

>>15814446
libgen

How do you guys cope with special requests?
I had a couple of clients that wanted to do out of the ordinary stuff and I always just say yes. Recently I had a request of doing a flaming point for a liquid and had no idea if our device could even measure at that high temps, it could with an overhead of 3 degrees. Another time they were asking for some GCMS shit that we barely made workout on our column. It's fine I guess but I'm always worried that it's not working and I don't like that.

>>15814562
no idea wtf you're on about

>>15814562
>How do you guys cope with special requests?
Say you'll look into the feasibility of the request, and if it isn't feasible then tell them no.

>We had a hand-off in recruitment for this position and I was wondering if we could reconnect?
Is this code for "We didn't pick you and hired someone else and they quit after 2 weeks so now we're wondering if you're still interested?"

>>15814512
thanks for the non-advice

so is it impossible to get a job in November or what?

>>15814553
4 weeks is "fast" by most standards, 8 weeks is borderline "slow".
For academia the variance is pretty high but usually longer, so 6 weeks isn't unreasonable at all.
You could still email them on Monday, wouldn't hurt to check in and show that you're still interested.

>>15814619
Handoff usually means that the recruiter or hiring manager changed, but it's not totally unlikely that their chosen candidate dipped and you're the second in line.

Should I put my degree complete year instead on my resume? My degree completed September 2022, but I technically graduated January 2023. The 2023 makes it look like I took an extra year. I suspect it looks like a red flag at a glance to recruiters.

I want an academic career. Should I aim Oxbridge for my PhD if I want to be garanteed a good leverage to both good European and American unis, or are there better teams/unis/labs in Europe for such a garantee?

t. trying to flee france and its gatekept elitism asap

>>15814940
Yeah

I'm ABD in bioinformatics (corrections should come in in december, then defense will probably be around february). I've been looking for postdocs for the past 5 months. I got 2 (two) whole interviews. One went terribly. Other went awesome and he even went ahead and asked for recommendation letters from my references, but then I got rejected just the other day.

For a quick background: my prof was terrible, promising things (mostly to connect me with other profs related to my application domain since the lab I was in had 0 experience in it) then never doing them for months, then telling me to forget about the promise because it is not possible.

During my PhD, a major part of my work was to demonstrate that the methods used in the field since ~2008 are mathematically worng. This is not the first time this was proven, by my proof is novel and more convincing than previous versions. Incidentally, the previous version comes from one of the biggest labs in the domain.

Beside that, since I'm on the computational side with no ties to a lab in the application domain, it is impossible to publish in papers in the application domain due to politics (I have received strong approval and confirmation of my results by practicioners and some researchers locally, that isn't the problem).

I have 2 publication-ready papers but I tried to publish them in application domain-specific venues so far. Due to the problems with my prof, I could only attempt 3 submission until now, the latest one is waiting for reviews. My previous reviews were: 1- (direct quote) "the results are too good to be true" (paraphrase) "but I see nothing wrong". The other 2 reviewers both emphasized that my paper was very well written and only had minor comments; and 2- 1 reviewer didn't read the paper at all (review was
"stName secondName Title of the pa
The authors talked about <thing that was nowhere in the paper> but don't provide solutions (entire paper was purely made of solutions)") + same as above

>>15814990
The postdoc interview that went awry was because I mentioned this part of my work disproving the use of the metrics researchers rely on. As soon as I talked about it the guy went red in the face. Then he stonewalled me in emails, literally "we received many strong applications"-type generic slop. Never seen this kind of abhorent response before in academia.

My former colleagues also tell me it's impossible to find postdocs now, but since my publications are from before my PhD, it's obviously even worse for me.

It's virtually impossible that I can achieve what I want to do without continuing in academia. Moreover, if I don't get a postdoc within 5 years of completing my PhD, the vast majority of postdocs are no longer available to me. Meanwhile I have to push my papers to publication ASAP to even be considered. Since my PhD sucked hard because of my prof and due to the difficulties with publishing my results, I need a postdoc that will basically guarantee good publications, which means I must get a postdoc at a good lab. I don't want to have to share a room with 3 other people for the next 17 years moving and doing postdocs at shitty places just for the privilege of being able to apply to lackluster prof positions after, by the time I have enough clout to do the research I want to do, I'll be too old to see it bear any fruit.

What the fuck do I do now? I had no choice but to take an industry position in a completely different domain because nobody wants a bioinformatician with very high computational skills but no wetlab experience, all bioinformatics positions are either excel monkey (which I'd gladly do but I'm (((overqualified)))) or wetlab experience required.

>>15814974
ETHZ, EPFL, or TUM are all good choices.
Fleeing France is a great move given the absolute state of academia there -- while the researchers are world-class, the pay is a joke and profs can't even do research management or research work since they're too busy pulling 80 hours of teaching work just to make ends meet. It's also only getting worse, and academic infrastructure is collapsing.
t. my uncle is a prof at paris 8.
The only downside is that it's basically impossible to get back into French academia or national labs if your PhD was not from one of the grandes ecoles.

>>15810281
>Top performers are still getting hired,
Hasn't been the case in 3 decades lmao. You clearly aren't anywhere near any kind of job market, kid.

>Hasn't been the case in 3 decades
Are you saying that companies have not been hiring ANY people at all for the past thirty years?
Even if they hire 10 people every year instead of 1000, who do you think they're hiring? Mouth-breathing retards like you? Clearly they still hire people every year the difference is that it's more selective. And when they're more selective of course they pick those who perform better.
But if you need this fantasy that nobody gets hired in order to justify your inability to get a job and to pretend that you're not a midwit then sure, go ahead.

>>15814991
How much wetlab experience is required for the jobs you want?

>>15814397
A good job in STEM will demand long work hours so you will no time to get what is needed to get and maintain a gf.

>>15814974
Aim for any lab with a good reputation. Supervisors and research groups become more important than university name at the PhD level.
Leaving France for PhD and early research career then returning for a permanent position once established is the meme.

>>15815024
Not only underaged but also illiterate. Sad!
Hiring has been purely on the basis of nepotism and "personality" for 3 decades, child.

>>15815028
In real life (i.e. the actual job duties): 0. Those are positions where you wouldn't even be allowed on the wet side even if you wanted it.
As for the job requirements (they're real requirements, I have reached out to people on the inside to verify this, and I also knew people from the inside personally who also confirmed that before I even tried anyway), they require at least an undergrad in chem or bio's worth, but preferably a mixed or full-wet PhD.

>>15815124
Incorrect. Lookup ESG and DEI. Nepotism is just how you bypass those.

>>15815049
I'm >>15814990
and I'll second that, but with a twist. Don't go for "any" lab with a good reputation. First, list labs by domain-specific reputation and start at the top of the list during your search. Next, ensure the specific prof you are going for is suitable, not all profs in a reputable lab are themselves reputable, and even the reputable ones are not necessarily suitable as research directors.

Don't be like me. Don't make my mistakes. Under no circumstances should you follow your passion while choosing a PhD, or compromise for other factors like time or location. Reputation is absolutely everything. Even the probability of publishing, the quality of the journals you'll publish in, and future opportunities are entirely dependent on being in a reputable lab under a reputable and useful prof, your skills or the quality of your research has 0 impact here (to the point that reputable labs often get garbage, often obviously falsified or copied from elsewhere, published in nature, while less known labs are stuck publishing fantastic papers in mediocre or off-field journals)

>>15815124
>being this delusional
To be fair, your personality is more than enough reason to not hire you. Enjoy your food stamps.

>>15815172
You must be 18 or older to browse this site.

>>15814991
If you're set on doing a postdoc, maybe try doing one in industry at a large biopharma company.

Or just cash out and leave academia. Maybe switch to a computer science, statistics, or other related field postdoc position to avoid drama. Math oriented people won't have the same hang-ups as biologists when you point out methodological flaws that they probably built their careers on.

Great job correcting standard practices in the field BTW.

>>15815268
>maybe try doing one in industry at a large biopharma company.
I tried, they demand wetlab experience to even consider applicants.
>Maybe switch to a computer science, statistics, or other related field postdoc position to avoid drama.
I don't want to go into academia for the sake of academia. I need in because it's the only way I can accomplish the research I want done, and this is hyphenated biology research. You are absolutely right about CS and stats being less drama, in addition they do not generally have this weird insider club politics bullshit. My master's was CS before I went into bioinformatics, which is in great parts why I was blindsided by all this.

Actually maybe I can hack up a plan to reconcile my research plan with a CS career track somehow. That'll require some mental gymnastic but thanks for the idea.

>Great job correcting standard practices in the field BTW.
Thanks. I just wish it was possible to get people to actually care (which is the basic premise for which I am dead set on academia for the sake of the research I seek to accomplish -- I don't trust that it's possible to get others to do things right or to care).

>fresh out of MSc in bio
>find cool fully funded PhD position in the country I want to go to (close to home country, cool place and pays the best a PhD student can ask)
>send CV, cover letter, diplomas, scientific writing
>finally hear back
>"you were more than 50 applying, I selected 11 of you based on all the submitted documents"
>"I'll schedule a 30 mins zoom meeting with you, I will ask these questions"
>do interview
>"Congrats! you are one of the 3 candidates I find perfectly fitting for the position"
>"present one of your research projects during my next lab meeting with my team. 10 mins max + 10 mins for questions"

I reached the last fucking Hunger Games trial. Only 1 position.
Do you guys have any advice for me? All my other applications for more technical jobs are being rejected, this is my best opportunity at a career in research. Please, tell me I am going to make it.

>>15806623
3rd semester chemistry, should I quit?

>>15815278
As previously mentioned in the thread, stop right now and reconsider the value prop. Don't go some place because of the country or the pay. Go because the lab is at the top of its field and because the prof is particularly well renowned as well as a great mentor. If this doesn't apply then drop out of this and try again.

You are signing up for 5 years (3 if it's a european system phd) of barely scraping by financially, not moving forward on a corporate ladder (more money, more freedom, more opportunities, not to mention the base pay difference that gets magnified via investments), and letting your entire academic future be decided by your lab and prof.

Don't gamble your life away like that.

Is prestige really that important?

>>15815301
There is some variation depending on your field, but in general it is bar none the most important aspect unfortunately.
It's generally less the case in fields where peer review is double-blinded (you will still have a hard time finding a postdoc, but at least you'll be able to use a strong publication record to somewhat make up for it), but that's very uncommon, most reviews aren't even single-blinded.

>>15815275
Not that anon, but since your work is computational, why not just completely skip to the scientific computing / computational engineering side of things?
My grad school was in applied maths so pardon my ignorance of bio, but do yo you even need to be anywhere near a wetlab yourself?
You might be a better fit for places like deepmind where they only really consider the computational part (I'm thinking of AlphaFold).
If you can convince the PI that your coding/ML skills are on par then they'd probably really appreciate having someone with actual domain expertise.

>>15815132
Yup. The new graduate hires at my office are 2 non-white girls, 1 white girl (CFO's niece), 1 gay asian, and only one normal person.

How is the job market for chemists in germany?

holy fuck this thread is depressing, where is the light at the end of the tunnel?

>>15815308
> why not just completely skip to the scientific computing / computational engineering side of things?
That IS what I do and what I want to do, just that it's specialized to biology. This is the kind of positions that still demand wetlab experience for no reason. Many famous and less famous bioinformaticians have written plenty about how ridiculous that is over the years, but it doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon.

>but do yo you even need to be anywhere near a wetlab yourself?
For a postdoc, not at all, and I'm not looking for something like that either, it's just that bioinformatics located elsewhere doesn't really exist as far as I was able to find.
Based on the other anon's adivce I'll try to formulate this as "X, but applied to biology" instead and see if I can fish something out. The problem is that I'll be far from anyone with hyphenated biology experience, which means I'm doomed to reinvent the wheel a few times, and I'll have 0 visibility on biology and the direction things are going. Ultimately the point is to show my work to bioinformaticians and biologists, so that makes this part of the job quite ardous.

>If you can convince the PI that your coding/ML skills are on par then they'd probably really appreciate having someone with actual domain expertise.
Unfortunately, that's the problem in bioinformatics right now. They don't care at all. Wetlab or bust except at tiny labs. It's insane. My coding and ML skills speak for themselves, it's how I did my bioinformatics, and I was previously a deep learning researcher at a FAGMAN. Before that I was in one of the world's most famous DL labs. I have 10 years of state-of-the-art DL experience in industry and academia combined as of this year, plus programming projects spanning from deep learning frameworks to compilers to biological sequence search engines.
In my experience and my colleagues', I dwarf pretty much all bioinformaticians in those domains. Nobody cares.

>>15815285
I have questioned myself a lot. I thought getting a well paid, short contract for research lab tech/assistant job would have been better, and also increase my experience and marketability. I applied to ALL open vacancies I was qualified for in 2 countries (10 out of 20 applications I sent) and never got a single interview. PhD applications, the same.

now let me list the pros and cons.
Cons
>Lab is not anything special (don't think it's bad either though, they win fundings)
>prof isn't anything special (still, she wins fundings and goes around the world and stuff)
>Uni isn't anything special, around top 100 world
>(the worst) the field is not that marketable, not in academia and especially in the industry, just a step above full on ecology cause at least some biomolecular lab work is involved
>not such a hot field, will most likely publish in low/mid impact factor journals
>I may struggle to find work afterwards

Pros
>In Switzerland
>one of the most competitive STEM countries, even if the uni is not stellar I think it's very high regarded nonetheless
>very cool place, lab in a forest near a lake
>4 years
>4135 bucks a month
>prof seems very kind and prepared, a nice supervisor
>no teaching obligations, only a few nice lectures when you want
>can do the "put all the papers together" kinda thesis, the priority is publishing
>Actually uniquely interesting subject, something I will be happy to work on
>will travel to tropical places for months
>both fieldwork and lab work
>while not that ground breaking research, has decent marketability within the field

now, I will make the best of it if I get it, connections and all. In the end, 4 years of happiness and good pay is miles better than sad unemployment or actual wageslaving. Also, consider that while I am good and have above average research experience, I am not the next noble prize, I won't ever get selected by top tier labs. So it's either this or nothing.

What's the worst that could happen (pic related)

>>15815349
Regarding deepmind: I actually tried to apply about 4 months ago. No response, probably won't get any anytime soon. Everything's on hiring freeze right now anyway.
Beside, deepmind doesn't really do computational stuff for biology. The way it works is, they have a product (the alpha-XXX series of "models") and they're spinning it for different niches trying to find how they can best profit.

Alphafold is an interesting case study about bioinformatics: it performs like crap, but since there has never been any DL method applied to this problem before, it completely destroys the craptastic 'classical' approaches that were used before. This is of course because of this requirement for bioinformaticians to have a wetlab background to be accepted anywhere: the result is that people who can barely hack together an excel macro are tasked with doing computaional tasks. This leads to shitty code, p-hacking, bad algos, and low hanging fruits everywhere bottlenecked only by the low quality of the data in biology.

All this because bioinformatics is largely regarded as "analysing biology data", not as an integral part of a closed-loop biology experiment workflow as it ought to be.

20 years ago or so, big pharma got blindsided when startups came up with reverse pharmaco (using bioinformatics to identify potential drugs, instead of randomly selecting things from grandma remedies to random plants and seeing what the HTS says). Nobody learned a single thing from this, the problem is just the same.

End of blog for now.

>>15815350
Strongly recommend you reconsider given your specs. Moreover I recommend you stop even looking for a PhD now and start informing yourself first. For example you say,
>no teaching obligations
as a pro. However, teaching experience is pretty much mandatory for prof appointments. Not that it's obligatory, but it counts for a lot during your application. Since you don't seem to know all that much about what you should be looking for, this is probably not the time for you to make such a rash decision.

The exception is if you don't have a master's degree yet. In that case it's worth considering and reassess if you want to quit the PhD into a master's 2 years in, or if you think it's worth continuing. You will also have the opportunity to convert into a master's and move to a PhD in a better lab instead.

At least now you're aware you're shooting yourself in the foot and will have nobody but yourself to blame if it turns out as bad as you were warned it would be.

>>15815361
it's Europe, I need a MSc to get into a PhD program. Ok, I'll tell them I did teach classes, won't specify how many and for how long, ez.
So what would you recommend I do instead? Wait until Oxford hits me up with a job offer? Be real with me now. Consider I already am pretty far deep into the rabbit hole, my master was research-oriented since it's what I want to do. Other than a PhD there is NOTHING if I want to do research. Nothing. I can always be a research tech in a different lab if i don't land a postdoc after all. Get all the technical experience there and then change field eventually. What would you do and don't tell me "just get a different degree and bro" cause I don't want to

like, do you think only the Prof's son, Fields medalists and people working at Ivy unis get to work in research? Come on now, the job market is shit but not THAT shit. Should I stay jobless for a year and hope someone will have pity on a good but not great soul like me? Fuck that, I am going to make it no matter what.

>>15815349
>>15815357
Does it have to be explicitly "bioinformatics" though? Off the top of my head there's the Wolfson Centre at the mathematical institute in Oxford which specializes in that, KTH in Stockholm has computational biologists at their Computational Science division (Uppsala as well iirc), and most of the German TUs have some scientific computing applications in biology.
If you've done DL at fagman then you could definitely send an unsolicited application to any of these departments and still have a half-decent shot at getting in.

>>15815278
>>15815350
Pick a project that is related to their research and especially to what you will be doing.
If it's ETH or EPFL then this is a golden ticket, either way it still sounds like a great deal. Worst case scenario you get tenure at a mid-tier German uni afterwards and live a quiet but comfy life.

>>15815387
>Ok, I'll tell them I did teach classes, won't specify how many and for how long, ez.
That's literally not how it works. When applying, you have to specify exactly which classes you taught, what level (grad or undergrad), for how long, in which capacity (TA, lecturer, invited, etc.), and so forth. You will also be asked about your "teaching philosophy" and have to relate it to this.
Also this is not the kind of thing you can bullshit through at all, this is super serious because competition for prof positions is insane. It's probably the most competitive position behind only that of president of a country.

>Wait until Oxford hits me up with a job offer?
Yes.
Get a job in the meantime, preferably but not necessarily related to your degree, and bide your time while applying to quality PhDs.

>>15815395
>Does it have to be explicitly "bioinformatics" though?
Certainly not, just needs people who actually have "visibility" in biology so that the research is actually 1- relevant and 2- correct.
I say this because one of my colleagues during my PhD was co-directed by the deep learning department and I attended some of their "reading groups" where they discussed what they were working on. Despite this department being world-class in deep learning, the work they were doing in "DL applied to biology" was ludicrously bad. Wrong on the most fundamental level, stemming from no understanding of the biology they were trying to analyse, and no desire to learn at all. I don't want to unwittingly become like that on account of being in such an environment and having nobody to tell me "hey, that thing is not relevant because this is not how we do this or that".

I tried applying to KTH at https://lagergrenlab.org/ and got an interview. Interview seemed to go well. He asked me for my papers which I'm trying ot publish now and I learned from my references that after he read them, they have been contacted for referals, so it looks like he liked me well enough.
Then two days ago I received a rejection email. No explanation or details. I see on his site that the posting I applied to has been removed, and an identical posting but listed as a PhD offer is now present instead. Not too sure what to make of it.

I tried a few TU*s and didn't even get responses. Unlike the KTH, the TU*s all listed wetlab experience required, but maybe I'll try again with the "X in biology" angle and target labs that have nothing to do with biology.

>>15815395
If it was ETH or EPFL he wouldn't have said it was a shit school lol.
Maybe more like UNIL.

>>15815395
>Worst case scenario you get tenure at a mid-tier German uni afterwards and live a quiet but comfy life.
I mean, even assistant professors get paid a fuckload of money. How could anyone not be happy with 5k+ monthly salary? I would be driving a Porsche and living in a small villa with that easily, what the fuck, sign me up. Yes, I will present the project that is in part relevant to their field
>>15815396
>It's probably the most competitive position behind only that of president of a country
bro who hurt you... If you want to tell us something go ahead, what broke you to say such jaded things? It's probably helpful for us to know
>get a job
I am trying. If I don't get replies back for jobs below my skill level what makes you think a top lab would ever consider me?
>>15815407
btw I thought Bioinformatics was the "just learn to code bro" of the field, everyone is doing it.
>>15815408
better than UNIL. it's not a shit school, it's simply not cream of the crop uni, and /sci/ consider everything that isn't top 10 a shit school. It's just cringe anglo collage propaganda to funnel more money. Fuck anglo education system

>>15815407
Sounds like a funding issue, still promising that you got that far though. Seems to be the right direction at least.

>>15815408
Woops missed that part lol

>>15815427
>bro who hurt you... If you want to tell us something go ahead, what broke you to say such jaded things? It's probably helpful for us to know
Obviously I'm speaking for experience, but I wouldn't be making sweeping generalization if it was only from my own experience. Go to any venue, in person or online, where people finished a PhD (if they're during a PhD, they're too scared to say something negative and that the prof will find out, and they're right to be that scared). Ask them what they thought and learned in the process. You will find the same basic reaction. The only people who will say something different are those who went to top-10 labs and got everything handed to them on a silver platter as a result.

>I am trying. If I don't get replies back for jobs below my skill level what makes you think a top lab would ever consider me?
Because ultimately it's a number's game and depends on the market. Right now the grad market is saturated because the job market took a massive shit. Historically every time the market takes a shit, people turn ot grad school to wait it out.

>>15815427
>btw I thought Bioinformatics was the "just learn to code bro" of the field, everyone is doing it.
Kinda is, yeah, but not in the way you would think. Everyone is running a t-test in R, everyone is putting their genes in an excel sheet which has a sorting bug that made the past 15 years worth of gene expression papers dubious at best.

But absolutely nobody is building the comp bio tools required to perform in-silico experiments required to automate analysis tasks, reduce biology workloads, properly correct data errors, guide experimental workflows, or anything of that sort. That's absurdly rare and is mostly relegated to chasing bullshit metrics to get a paper published, knowing that nobody in biology will read the paper or apply your software or method if it's not a glorified t-test they can p-hack until their bad data gives them the arbitrary conclusion they were seeking.

I wish I could get a PhD but I'm old and broke.

>>15815519
I have seen the numbers, showing how many PhD's left the field afterwards. I do think the data included PhD's in humanities and other "sciences" though, it's surely better for STEM ones. I think I saw an infograph here with the academia career paths and all the percentages , would be cool if someone pulled it up (and added it to the general website). But really. Say I do my PhD in this fun but irrelevant field. You don't think I can leverage the practical and technical experience into an industry job or maybe some conservation position somewhere? And while doing, sending postdoc applications (I have seen quite a few for "irrelevant" niche fields) around? What do you do when you drop out of academia with a PhD and can't into industry? What are the options in and outside science?
>>15815524
>Everyone is running a t-test in R
literally me

Why go into research instead of the industry?

>>15815662
cause funy

>>15815662
Because that's what you want in life and you would rather die than not do it.
That is the only valid reason. Any other reason is both wrong and retarded at best.

>>15815309
Est ist vorbei.
This guy does have a record of exaggerating things though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmEhTFjQB1g

>>15815666
funny, my last supervisor said exactly the same to me, "me and you are like this, we need to do this like we need air to breathe", that was very inspirational.

>>15815666
I imagined that I would fulfill my scientific curiosity in university until I got my phd and then just focus on finally earning some money afterwards in the industry.

>>15815676
and?

>>15815670
That guy is a self-admitted CIA asset. Nothing he says it's objective, it's literally deep state political propaganda to quell domestic unrest. Notice how all his conclusions always lead to "America will do great and everyone else is fucked"

>>15815676
Absolutely retarded.

>>15815519
>The only people who will say something different are those who went to top-10 labs and got everything handed to them on a silver platter as a result.

I went to a top 5 university and a top-name lab in my field and got completely fucked over and am massively bitter. I occasionally bitch here though I've tried to reduce that since it doesn't really help anyone.

>>15815676
Most Ph.D. research is too advanced to have instant practical meanings. Also, research is about a lot of failures, which definitely isn't contributing to things or being useful. Even if you succeed in one thing, that thing is not likely to impact either academia or society largely. So doing a Ph.D. can be painful and make you doubt your worth, especially when you are more of a practical person.
Elon Musk even says that the utility delta for his engineers (Ph.D holders) is less than that on those who work on the factory floor.

>>15815751
How have you been fucked over so we can avoid a similar fate?

>>15815580
I am a double PhD and I can say without a doubt that getting a PhD was one of the greatest mistakes of my life. It adds no value to your life and takes away many years , in pursuit of a useless degree. I feel suicidal sometimes.

There's no PhD for bleeding edge technology. It requires someone who can think outside of the box to solve complex problems. PhD is someone who followed somebody else's discovery most big advances and discoveries didn't even come from Ph.Ds.

>>15811350
>precalc
It gets so much worse, enjoy the ride.

>>15811350
Nothing like watching through Prof. Leonard's videos won't fix.

>>15811412
>where even incompetent retards like me could skate by and get 6 figures for being a bench warmer
People who came here before you made that impossible.

>>15815758
Advisor decided to fuck a student and was forced to leave after my first year. It was a fairly new subgroup within the lab so there weren't any postdocs yet (in fact one was hired just before shit went down but never started, understandably). The PI's research was a bit niche and the people around me generally did somewhat different things. Somewhere during my second year I was the most senior researcher of my topic in the building as the previous gen of students got out. I was shoved onto a different PI who didn't know or care about me or my research. Covid happened right after so I was forced out of the lab for half a year, that in itself wasn't all that bad but basically everybody in power had bigger things to worry about and my situation was very low on the priority list.

>>15815780
I guess to avoid this you would want a group that could keep going if your advisor was hit by a bus tomorrow. That basically means no new/small groups.

>>15815764
The huge prestige from having a PhD would enable me to get a gf though.

>>15815780
I guess to avoid this you would want a group that could keep going if your advisor was hit by a bus tomorrow. That basically means no new/small groups.

For what it's worth, the university did their very best to cover it up. One day the guy just wasn't there anymore and wasn't allowed to communicate while investigations were going on. We thought he'd been hit by a bus or something for a long time. In fact I was never officially told what happened, I learned it eventually through getting people who had been involved with the investigation drunk. This particularly sucked because I didn't want to reach out to my advisor about research stuff when I thought he'd been through some personal strategy and figured it should be initiated by him. By the time I realized this wasn't the case it was already too late to turn the boat on that research.

>>15815794
>personal strategy
personal tragedy, even

>>15815793
There is 0 prestige in having a PhD in practice. Not him by the way. In fact it's often considered negative prestige in most contexts, both professionally and socially.

>>15815780
Pretty classic tale overall. This is why I keep saying it: your success during the PhD is determined before you even start, it has precisely nothing to do with your skills or your research. It's entirely up to your institution and prof. It's also why I say that the notoriety of the place is first on the list, but not all profs are good fits.
I didn't meniton it but you're also completely right to point out that doing something that's too niche will basically get you into a deadend.

>>15815766
I can't think of a single big advance that didn't come from a PhD. Even in the 70's-80's golden age of industry advances, and despite media portrayal of the opposite as they loved come-from-nothing lone-wolf narratives at the time, the advances were still all made by PhDs.

>>15811995
>It's an insurance policy

no its hedging

>>15815793
>PhD
no one cares. only if youre a medical doctor will they like you.

Is doing a PhD really that bad of an idea? I kinda was hoping to get into weapons research amd you guys are making sound like I should give up before I even send out my first application.

>>15815883
It's a great idea.
You can introduce yourself as the guy who researches new ways for international bankers to blow up kids.

>>15815885

>>15815827
I don't entirely disagree. I will say that it's now been long enough that I've started to identify the people in academia who are probably going to make it. The most striking thing about these people isn't their skills or research, it's that they know everybody and are incredibly well connected. Obviously the institution and professor play a huge part in that.

>>15815905
Absolutely.

>>15815883
Have you tried working on weapons in the industry instead?

>>15815927
I found having a BS in physics held me back since they want engineers and a smaller number of physics people ith more specialized skillsss than you can get in a bachelor's

I quit my job after 2 months and my company is going to claw back the sign on bonus.
At first I thought they'd just forget or decline to claw it back since they must be self-aware enough to realize their own shittiness caused me to leave, but I just got my last check and they completely drained all of it except for $10.
So now I'm sure an invoice is coming for the rest.

>>15815824
Most people hate Ph.Ds both in social and work contexts. The only people who tolerate Ph.Ds are other Ph.Ds. For a good reason, most people with Ph.Ds (and many people with Masters) are right up there with Marines, vegans, and avid cyclists with their overt arrogance, overconfidence, and general nasty character.

>>15812546
Good. Academics need to be purged once in a while for true science to flourish. Here in America, we are purging people like Fauci to make way for Elon.

what's a better career move:
>applied math MSc with 2 semesters of electives + a 2 semester thesis. I'd mostly take CS classes.
>data science MSc with 3 semesters of ML, databases, data engineering etc. + a 1 semester thesis
as a math undergrad

>>15816041
what are your career goals?
protip: "making lots of money" is not a career goal

>>15816077
software or data engineer

>>15816080
Any specializations or are you open to anything?

>>15816084
dont really know yet

>>15815662
There's only a small range industry options in my field. Those that do exist will likely collapse or downsize when the quantum computing bubble pops. Sure I could earn more money there but I do actually like the research and teaching I do.

>>15816155
Google and many tech companies like IBM do hire quantum computing scientists and they pay like 300k+ for a fresh PhD. you are allowed to do pure research in Google, especially with quantum computing. try to get hired there and retire comfortably after working for 10 years.

>>15812825
Most modern textbooks, including revised editions of older textbooks, do not serve to educate, but serve as a way to let the authors demonstrate to others that they are smart. Why use simple language when you can be as verbose as possible, after all, if something can be explained in simple words, then it can't possibly be as hard as people think it is, right? Almost every period of societal tension in modern history started off with a mass purging of academics for a good reason.

>>15816077
>protip: "making lots of money" is not a career goal
Yes it is

>>15815662
I do research in industry. Checkmate libruls

>>15815766
This is retarded.

>>15816041
Speaking from experience, 1 semester thesis + 1 semester of classes is more valuable than a 2 semester thesis. Most places you apply to don't care about how long your thesis is, and the odds that your thesis will be relevant for every job you apply for is negligible, while the odds that one of the courses you take during that extra semester is relevant is quite high (if you don't go full retard on which courses you choose).

>>15815780
>>15815794
what did the PI end up doing? why not letting him help you off the grid? He surely owed it to you. Also I thought fucking students was okay with consent, albeit very unprofessional?

>>15815942
So why wouldn't you try for an engineering master's instead?

>>15816194
Absolutely nobody cares what classes you took. As for the length of your thesis, people care a lot. Longer = worse.

>>15816318
It's never OK and an immediate cause for dismissal. Among other things it's conflict of interest which puts doubt upon all grading you've ever done.

>>15816161
Kek.
Why do people who clearly haven't even started a bachelor's larp like this?

>>15816155
That's a very bad way to look at the payoff between industry and research, and you're sure to be completely miserable forever, if you don't just kill yourself. You should instead be pivoting to a livable career.

If i get a master's in engineering, then try to get a master's in math, how fucked am i for having to learn analysis from a book?

>>15816381
There are no livable careers. 40 hours a week is a death sentence.

>>15816398
Careers that offer lots of money are livable because you can do them for a few years and fuck off to a cheaper country.

>>15816415
No you can't.

>>15816435
Maybe you can't, but I can.

A fresh example how member of the British intellectual elite consider scientists:
https://archive.is/BwFkE
>These are his “Bayesian priors”. I hope to never encounter a starker case of abstract reasoning getting in the way of practical observation.

>>15816415
Was considering this...working for 10-20 years while living like a monk, then fucking off to some low COL area to raise my chickens.

>>15816532
What a clinically retarded article.
Yikes!

>>15816377
>This position requires X, do you have experience with X?
>Yes, I know X very well, I did X in college and had good grades.
Also it's not the actual length of time but how many credits/semesters. If it's supposed to be one semester but you fuck up and end up spending two then yes it's worse, but in universities where 2 semesters is the norm then spending 2 semesters is fine.

>>15816718
You must be 18 or older to browse this site.

>>15816721
>t. has never hired anyone or been remotely near a recruitment process

what is the best way to have sex when studying electrical engineering ?

>>15816792
Grindr is like 90% engineers

>>15816752
18 is a larger number than 12.

>>15811453
>If you're around 200lbs
then you should consider a diet.

>>15811498
Agreed.

>>15811516
Consider a nice cuppa tea. Japanese green tea contains a fair bit of L-theanine and is unlikely to get you arrested.

>>15816889
>green tea
Ok my parents might have some of that. I just add boiling water. How long should I let it seep for? And should I put anything else in it

Will I make it?
>Online classes for the last 2 years
>Learnt nothing at all from it
>Got into an EE Program through nepotism
I'm trying to hard grind pre-calc using khan academy while taking calc 1 at the same time. So far i've been getting by relatively fine but I fear my lack of foundations will catch up to me later on.

>>15806956
You can work for any oil or natural gas company, especially if you're from a good school. Also,

guys quick help guys.
For a ppt presentation, I remember some people in the first slide not only put their name but also the date and place of the presentation. I think it's cool cause it implies the presentation was made specifically for that event. Should I do it? And should I add the place although it will be discussed online and I won't be in the same country where it is displayed?

>>15816985
I dare you to reference 4channel in the powerpint

>>15816373
I had a bad experience working as an engineering tech.

>>15816990
I'll say based multiple times if you answer my questions

>>15816318
>what did the PI end up doing?
consulting

>why not letting him help you off the grid? He surely owed it to you
He didn't offer to, in fact he never contacted me after he left, and only left one general message to the group which didn't explain much. As mentioned, I wasn't told what happened and it was implied he was in a situation where he was basically unavailable for contact.

>Also I thought fucking students was okay with consent, albeit very unprofessional?
He had a pastoral role in addition to the PI role, and for someone like that it is absolutely not okay.

>>15817008
Ok but when you say based you have to use it as an adjective. You should put your name and the date but not the location, since it will be mostly online. You should put the name of the event as well. If that contains the date, then leave out the date from before.

>>15816998
Then what are you even trying to do? Because you seem to be trying to get a phd for the purpose of being an engineering tech

>>15817064
Northrop Grumman, BAE, national labs, and others have a lot of postings for physics PhDs

>old job refuses to train me and everyone is a jerk
>i leave after 3 months
>old boss is retiring in december
>now they are desperation posting job ads to fill my position
>offering triple my old salary on contract basis
lel
get fucked retards

>>15817202
Sure, but what I'm saying is I am fairly certain you can get these jobs through coming in as an engineer or similar. Also believe me, those positions are crazy competitive if your only claim to it is you got a phd in physics.

>>15817336
What's the advantage of an engineering masters over a physics PhD?

>>15817352
It takes less time, the opportunity cost of a PhD is quite high. Also, many countries have some variant of licensed/certified engineer system which outlines requirements to be hired in most engineering roles and which invariably requires a degree in engineering.

>>15817365
I don't want to be an engineer. I think I would honestly rather drop this entirely and write javascript instead.

>>15815683
how unimaginative of you

>>15806623
I am civil engineer student planning on doing a masters in mineral resources in Germany. Obviously there is a big upcoming demand for different metals due to energy transition goals, and there are not many new enrolls into the industry to replace boomers, so possibly career progression could be fast. Mining industry has also always interested me in a weird, kind of a mystical manner, and I want to have an international career experience while I'm still young. What kind of jobs do people with masters do in mineral industry? I am mostly interested in the feasibility study side, but also pit modelling/exploration data mining/geoinformatics seem interesting. Also during my civ eng studies, I have actually studies as much programming/machine learning and real estate development as
I have studied construction, so I would have decent readiness for different kinds of jobs in the industry as well.

However I would really prefer not to work underground, except for maybe one year during studies. What do you think, should I go for it? It is government funded but I would have to leave my home country, although I like Germany a lot.

>>15817622
He said on Joe Rogan that he works for the CIA as a consultant. Do you think that just comes with zero strings attached or?

>>15817380
You need to slow down and reevaluate what you want to do and how this can be achieved. From your posts so far, it doesn't seem to me like you're ready for a PhD, and it looks like you are going for it because you have been misled about your prospects when it comes to working on weapons. Do you have anyone in the field you can reach out to?

>>15817905
I have a cousin who works in deterrence. He always talks about how he hiring and how much he loves his work. My grandfather is a retired NATO branch head who did everything for a PhD, but the thesis. The majority of my male relatives have post-graduate degrees of some kind, a pretty solid portion of my female relas do too. All of them encourage me to get a PhD. Nuclear physics is probably my single greatest talent. I loathe nuclear engineering. I find it incredibly boring. Colleagues I had in nuclear engineering when I did work in it told me I would do better in physics.

>>15817737
"this man who has previously worked for stratfor has ties to the cia" is not the revelation you think it is

>>15807787
Currently doing physics-related. At my uni physics means 60 ECTS (the work of 1 full semester spread over 5) of practical experimental work. That might help you focus.

>>15811479
>books
libgen.rs
sci-hub.st
If the links don't work, just search. They vary their TLDs.

>>15815960
i mean its not clawing back, that's the whole point of the sign on bonus in the first place

Anyone here in Control Systems (as in, applied control theory, not PLC programming). I think it's a remarkably interesting field of engineering, but the job search is difficult.

>>15818074
i got a masters in control, had lots of interviews for control engineer positions but ultimately ended up as a qual engineer for i&c systems, only tangentially related. applied control is fascinating but pids are sufficient for 99% of control in the real world. if they aren't you just add gain scheduling. MPC i guess is used in industry my professors said? i never saw a job posting involving it.

>>15818095
I get this sentiment. I think the cool stuff is only seen in robotics, autonomous driving, maybe flight control. Essentially anything that is not process control, so peanuts unfortunately.

The knowledge barrier for entering the field is pretty high as well. Not only do you need to know your controls, you need to know how to code (ideally low-level) and have knowledge related to your system (ex. ROS and dynamics for robotics). Hope I land something.

>>15815151
Holy moly, it truly is bad.
t. undergrad

>>15815905
>The most striking thing about these people isn't their skills or research, it's that they know everybody and are incredibly well connected.
Someone needs to make a collection of all the past scg threads and their best advice and include this in the collection.
I am just a simple autist. And every day I envy the luck of these people.
It's also so inefficient on a economical sense to just throw so many interested people out of research because they are not sociable enough.

>>15818316
>Someone needs to make a collection of all the past scg threads and their best advice and include this in the collection.
Isn't that what the FAQ is?

>>15816998
What kind of bad experience? What's your problem with that?

>>15817212
why not reapply?

>>15817917
Yeah, you're getting yourself into a trainwreck. You seem dead set on it though, so good luck, you'll need plenty. Just remember to disown your family and bestow upon /sci/ all your earthy posessions before committing suicide in 7 years.

>grant application accepted
Now I can fuck around for the next two years without consequences, feels good man

Is it possible for a europoor with a math degree to migrate to US and work as an actuary? Is actuarial science generally worth it?

Anyone else was purely motivated by money and prestige? I have no interest in STEM at all beyond that. I just needed a job that pays a lot and something normies will be impressed by when they ask what I do.

>>15818631
lolno

>>15818621
Is there a reason you think I should do engineering?

>>15818012
I prefer physical books. Less eye strain.

>>15818667
elaborate pls

>>15818316
>It's also so inefficient on a economical sense to just throw so many interested people out of research because they are not sociable enough.

I think everyone would agree that the academic research system is shit and broken, but you have to understand the game you're playing. The analogy is not perfect, but you might compare being a researcher to being an enterpreneur (or even an artist). At the end of the day your job is not to be good at what you do, your job is to keep the lights on whatever way you can. You need to make your name known, you need to know the people who can promote your work or give you access to opportunities. You need to be able to get the big players working with you, you need to secure money and talent. If you don't, there is no research group and you're weeded out.

It's different from just having a normal job where someone else worries about all that other shit and you just concentrate on being the best cog you can be. Research group leaders are not really researchers anymore. From this point of view, it's only logical that the research group leaders are not the people who are best at research. Just like the most successful artists are not the ones who are technically most talented and the most successful entrepreneurs are not the people who are best at e.g. landscaping themselves.

This would be all well and good if it were not for two things. First, there are practically no permanent academic research careers that do not involve forming your own group. Second, since academic research is not economically viable and is artificially propped up, there is basically no way to form your own research equivalent of a small business. Therefore the system churns through postdocs and PhDs who are perfectly good researchers and shits them out as bitter failures.

>>15816960
I'm jealous anon. Online classes were the only times when I thrived and learnt a lot. I really hate in-person classes so much.

holy shit it feels like such a drag to finish my undergrad even. Every day I barely slog through without killing myself. I wonder at people who even go for PhDs. I don't think I'll even go for a Masters. There's no way I'm going back to school once I get out.

>>15818784
Once we went online durving le covid I just slept in my bed on teams while the professor droned on.

>went through excruciatingly tedious interview process with notoriously huge multinational company almost 10 months ago
>become finalist after 4 rounds of interviewing
>finally get to offer stage
>it's low
>is this final or can we go higher?
>this is final
>tell them i have competing offers from smaller companies that are already higher
>sorry anon this is best we can do
>kthnxbai
>10 months later they are still trying to find someone
feels good man
get FUCKED
cheap faggot bastards

>>15818701
It's not really about the engineering itself. The idea is:
- PhD is a last resort, like trying to get into jail because you would be homeless outside
- You can almost certainly do the exact same job you'd like to do without doing a PhD
- You may have to reskill to something more engineery to appear more valuable for this purpose, but that is temporary. This may not even apply and you might be a good fit as is, even

again, what's the worst that could happen after a not so special PhD in a not so special field?

>>15818783
It's a bit worse than that, too. The idea that an MBA should head a company and not an engineer has been popular for a few decades in tech. It has caused tech to completely disintegrate. Now tech is unusable garbage, and modern software can't do anything software from the 90's could do without even trying.
The same can be seen in a few other industries that made that mistake.
It turns out that the business skills taught in schools are great to increase the average return of VCs, but not actually any useful to raise a successful business by other metrics. Just like you say, this means people who have no business being anywhere near research get promoted best, while those people who should be leaders in their field are thrown into the trash. Thus the entirety of society suffers unimaginable damage and incalculable losses.

>>15818788
Grad school doesn't work even remotely like an undergard. But you should avoid it like the plague anyway, just for different reasons.

>>15818841
How bad is the grade inflation in grad school? You get kicked out if you're less than 3.0 right? The grade inflation must be insane.

>>15818833
You would become unemployable because you're "overqualified" and moreover "too old for an entry-level position" as well as having no experience in the field. Not only that you also have no training because your field of choice was 'not so special'. In addition, you have 0 chance at a postdoc and therefore 0 chance at an academic career because your PhD was not briliant and you're competing against superstars with 500 (cheated) publications.

>>15818833
basically this

>>15818845
The vast majority of grad programs give free 4.0 for all courses. The coursework is purely a formality and has precisely nothing to do with grad school. It's worth less than 10% of the credits you have to earn, the thesis is all of it.

What is the work of a physicist like at companies like Intel or TSMC?
Considering applying for master's students internships there.

>>15818822
>- You may have to reskill to something more engineery to appear more valuable for this purpose, but that is temporary. This may not even apply and you might be a good fit as is, even
Yeah, I know. You have to tick the little boxes that you can't with specializations in physics. From my perspective, if I'm going to have to put in 70 hour weeks and sit around until I have enough experience on my resume no matter what direction I go, I might as well go for what actually interests me, nuclear physics. If that doesn't work out, I would still have python/C++/C/whatever projects I can demonstrate from research to throw together a coding portfolio and make enough ro support myself. I absolutely loathe engineering and engineers. I refuse to have anything to do with it ever again. The professors and grad students I've talked to think I have it in me to get a PhD. My family supports me in this, especially my relatives with graduate degrees. /scg/ and the professors I've spoken to have told me nuclear is probably one of the best branches of physics for employment prospects, particularly for an American. Losing half a decade of my life is definitely a downside, but I'd rather spend it learning and researching physics than making spreadsheets so Dilbert's boss can look good on his quarterly review. Sure, I probably won't end up making next generation nuclear weapons and sipping wine watching the sunset in Livermore Valley, but shooting for that will get me to work hard.

I'm nigged out.

>>15818846
>>15818848
mmh okay, what's the middle ground between this and being a hotshot professor then? And what can you do with a PhD outside of science, industry included?

>>15818926
>what's the middle ground between this and being a hotshot professor then?
Get a super hot phd in a super hot field and end up stock in postdoc limbo or at a shit school that pays you $0 (ZERO) until you get promoted 5 years down the line (you're supposed to fund yourself through grants... good fucking luck since grants only go to high-end schools).

> And what can you do with a PhD outside of science, industry included?
Pretty much nothing, unless if you consider fintech to not be research, which can be argued eitherway. But fintech is not about your quals anyway, it's about your connections. They don't accept people based on creds.

>>15818926
The standard outcome of a PhD is that you end up in a non-research career. You get a job that doesn't really make any use of your PhD, and you more or less wasted the years spent getting it. It's not the end of the world, but it's hard to argue that the PhD was a good idea.

As to what that job might be, the answer could be almost literally anything. There generally aren't any standard "PhD jobs" out there, which is part of the issue. There's no pipeline to follow.

>>15818872
>I would still have python/C++/C/whatever projects I can demonstrate from research to throw together a coding portfolio and make enough ro support myself.
Nope, that hasn't been a thing since the year 2006.
That's why I keep urging you to at least stop this and reach out to people. You clearly have no clue what a PhD entails or how to get a job (in anything, not just weapons research) or any of that.
Your primary concern should firstly be to determine your goal. Is it weapons research or something else? Figure that out clearly and definitively. Then figure out how to do it most efficiently, don't just go "b-b-ut it's p-possible". That's just not how the world works.

I just did an engineering undergrad and noped out of academia for the rest of my life and now work in my family business making lots of money and living a good life

>>15818974
Any advice for undergrads in engineering

>>15818935
>Nope, that hasn't been a thing since the year 2006.
>That's why I keep urging you to at least stop this and reach out to people.
I did reach out to people in software before any of this. They told me a BS in physics and a couple of projects is generally good enough to get an entry level job writing front end javascript or whatever.
>Your primary concern should firstly be to determine your goal.
Do you know what a contingency is?

>>15818992
A contingency is usually not a pipe dream that was rarer than finding an ostrish egg-sized diamond in your backyard back in the days where it was even possible.

>I did reach out to people in software before any of this. They told me a BS in physics and a couple of projects is generally good enough to get an entry level job writing front end javascript or whatever.
Oof, it seems I'm hardly the first to identify your... weaknesses.

>>15819015
Is there a reason you want me to study engineering so badly? What's your end goal here?

>>15818974
which branch of engineering?

>>15818814
A lot of older companies believe their prestige is sufficicient, and that people should in fact pay to be allowed to work for them. Such pomposity is unbearable, and you were right to leave.

>>15818931
the average PhD is not doing a hot program in a hot field though.
>>15818934
mmh in Europe most institutions have to offer you a salary based on your credentials, I believe a PhD is a level higher and so is your stipend. So maybe that makes it worth it? if you enjoyed those 4 year and made some valuable experience , leaving research and doing something like consulting for a higher salary doesn't seem too bad, considering I can't find much more anyway as an MSc

>>15818841
why how much different is grad school to undergrad? I only wanted to pursue higher studies because I've heard at one point your career and pay hits a wall without Masters and PhD. Also, I thought they get to do cool research, and I'm not averse to that. I wanna do research. But I also wanna get paid and have an actual job.

>>15819015
>>15819021
Holy shit you're both cumguzzling retards stop shitting up the thread, neither of you are getting anywhere.

The physicsfag wants to do a PhD, if he's under 30 then wasting an additional 4-6 years on a PhD is no big deal. If he's too retarded then he'll get filtered in the first year and drop out. Problem solved.

Also you're fucking retarded for thinking that a physics degree will be significantly different from an engineering degree at the research level. If you hate engineering you'll hate physics too.

>>15819387
Not that anon. This varies significantly depending on what country you're in. In the US a Master's and a PhD are both considered to be "graduate degrees" as opposed to the Bachelor's which is an "undergraduate degree", where one either does undergrad (4 years) + PhD (usually 6 years) or undergrad (4) + Master's (usually 2 years). In most European countries however a Master's is usually more separated from the PhD as its own distinct level with the progression being bachelors + masters + phd.

In European countries, particularly in STEM, degree inflation means that it's usually recommended to get at least a Master's, where it doesn't differ that significantly from your undergraduate education, because of the better salary progression.

In the US however the difference is much greater (like the anon you replied to said) and there's basically zero financial benefit in getting a graduate degree.
If you're from a 3rd world shithole then sorry can't help you there.

>>15819408
You have 0 idea what a phd is or does. Why bother replying? Especially when you're going to make such a profoundly retarded response of it.

Is mechatronics a meme or should I stick to electrical?

>>15816706
I am pleased to notice that article has racked up more than 500 comments so far, and quite a lot are highly critical of the newspaper hack.

>>15819420
I did a PhD myself, sorry that your delusions don't coincide with reality!

Avoid Hong-Kong
https://archive.is/qi87D

>>15816155
>when the quantum computing bubble pops
So it's no longer a matter of "if", huh? What makes you think that, anon?
I also think it's just a bubble that will sooner or later pop, but it's mostly a personal feeling, I don't have hard evidence.

>>15819700
It's not even a bubble, it's simply not commercially viable. It's vapor(hard)ware.

>>15819700
It's a when. Quantum computers will not fulfil the dreams that investors buy in to. The real potential application of them are very niche beyond cryptography, banking and academic research.

The main problem for me is scalability. All the current meme qubits require pulse tube referigeration as a minimum, if not dilution too. These fridges come with a huge material and energy cost and aren't particularly scalable themselves. Each logical cubit, depending on system, is made of 6-8+ physical qubits for error correction, encoding and readout. Each physical qubit requires 4-8 electrical lines for measurement/control. Every single line you put into a fridge harms the cooling power and performance. In QuIP theory there is a concept of quantum volume, the number of qubits needed to outperform classical bits. For most operations this is between 1k and 1 mil logical qubits. There is an impossible thermal challenge there, even with multiplexing. Add to that that every qubit you mix into your system increases decoherence.

Basically, nobody has discovered the silicon transistor of qubits yet and the perfect system probably will never exist.
My colleagues all share that opinion. Even friends who now work for quantum startups expect it to pop and are enjoying the high pay until then

I am willing to change my mind but it would require a scalable qubit, >70 K running temp and a coherence time of more than a few hours, ideally a day or more.

T. Skyrmion qubit phd, low-temperature electronics postdoc.

>>15819872
This greekanon is right.
I'm fully convinced that all the money that went into quantum is just investors hedging against the minute risk of some miracle breakthrough being made by one of the competitors.

>>15818783
Yes, but this problem only has arisen because of competition with the wrong "weapons".

The governments finance most research, so this competition should be possible to easily be rebuilt under new primitives. I mean historically research worked as well (although admittedly the speed of research we see nowadays truly is enormous, but at the same time there are more scientists as well)

Maybe the question is: Why is government funding of research not researched more in itself?

>>15819700 >>15819872
Even if the bubble bursts violently, you still have skills that can be transferrable. We have seen this before, remember the High Tc craze 1986 - 1996? The financial climate, just like now, meant people went to post grad degrees in drover. It was a wild west type era, an enormous amount of manpower went into what people thoughht would be a gold rush. And it failed. Yet the people were able to get good jobs still.

finding a job is just so hard even with me actually seriously starting for once
am i really supposed to just give up
Every role seems so oddly specific and technical. Are people memeing when they say they actually get into different roles and industries and aren't railroaded onto the first thing they picked? 90% of any engineering job listing is a bunch of super specific stuff
not to mention the guys that claim they manage to get finance jobs. Though to be fair I haven't looked at any finance jobs but I imagine their job listing must be even more out of bounds

>>15820248
apply anyway

>>15820248
It's not as super specific as you are imagining, you will understand that once you've been in the industry a few years and have seen more things..
University did a shitty job preparing you for industry, you are finding that out now. It's something we all go through as new engineers. Don't give in to despair. Just think of the job ads as "wish lists" they want in an ideal candidate.

>>15820248
Apply and if they like you they'll hire and train you for that role. The degree just shows that you're not a complete mouth breather and you know the basic theory behind what you're actually working on.

>>15819584
You must be 18 or older to browse this site.

>>15820248
The tech market at this moment is broken beyond all hope. The job itself is little more than pressing random buttons in a UI every so often, but you won't even be considered if you don't have 5yoe in the very specific autistic stack (which isn't even really used) choice the very specific company made. You know 100% of the concepts? You literally INVENTED one of the concepts behind one of the stack components? You know comparable stack components for everything and you have 7yoe in the overall process? Into the trash it goes.
HR and ATS really fucked shit up something fierce. Add to that that every company is on hiring freeze right now and layoffs have barely started to slow down (meaning it's still net layoffs right now, not net hiring).
Like anything it's cyclical, though, just wait a few years and it'll be back to "normal".
Or choose a field that's not tech, that also works.

>>15820541
There hasn't been such a thing as training in a tech job in the past 20 years. I'm pretty sure that's what he means by "engineering", especially since he mentions finance in the same breath.

>>15820571
Shit like this is why I can't stand engineers.

>>15820583
You will never be an engineer (YWNBAE).
Dial 8 but don't die l8 dumb tranny child

>>15820596
>You will never be an engineer
Thank God