/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15799781
why? the problem with humanity is that it relies on social systems (and every last one is shit) and isn't autotrophic. really almost all our problems stem from heterotrophism.

>>15799789
if we could keep our population low, and automate things then we could bypass the negatives of our heterotrophic nature.
we already produce more food than we can possibly eat and a lot of it goes to waste.

>>15799781
No
Every time someone tries to implement communism millions of people fucking die, your luxury gene edited communism will kill millions, maybe billions.
The system is intrinsically broken and only gangsters prosper

>>15799781
just play Bioshock dude

>>15799829
Found the brainwashed ameritard

>>15799829
We don't have to rush it, the reason communism ends up in atrocities and wars is because it was forced top down rather than form organically bottom up, and it was rushed. communists literally believe that you just have to educate people when they're young to not be too selfish lol
so in their minds it would only take one generation.
but if we do it very slowly, like say over a thousand years with genetic engineering and artificial selection then why not?

Does anyone have the scrolling loop gif
the one that goes
"and then your retarded system killed millions of people
but it wasn't real communism"
with some ball guy in shades

"Yeah, lets fuck with human lives until I get the perfect specimen for my flawed ideology"

Cmon man, you gotta have morals man

>>15799844
>the reason communism ends up in atrocities
bro get real it kinda keeps happening, there's clearly some serious problems
whatever system you imagine, must have NO human with power over other humans. of any sort. but even so humans will still form hierarchies, which is in fact dictated by the environment, and any difference between us.
some may find some people more enjoyable than others. any advantage will be speculated and we end up again in some sort of bullshit.
our dynamics are dictated by the environment, and clearly a single human will inherit everything, in the end.

>>15799859
>>15799860
Do you believe that life as it is, is ok?
because I don't, and clearly something has to be done about it.

>>15799781
The best way to get rid of slavery is to get rid of slaves. It's that simple. Abbolish nigrish, remainful genome will need to cooperate on automation to satify black work requirements.

Its literally impossible to engineer humans that way, we wont know what genes to target.
>genes for cooperation
What the fuck does that even mean?

>>15799881
Well I'm not saying that it's easy. if it was we'd have done it and be done with a long time ago.
we can take a more patient and slower approach to this. we should eventually be able to learn more about genetics and psychology, we build it brick by brick over a long period of time.
not via political revolutions.
it's not like socialism goes against physics but it does go against our biology, however we can control biology.

>>15799868
well these might be the very best times humans as a whole will live.
the way I see it, and for some reason many seem to don't, is that at the moment psychos collaborate because they have gains this way.
once we bootstrap a AI type system that's fully autonomous, and say "aligned", at the very instant that happens everybody becomes a liability for everybody.
we tolerate eachother as far as we need eachother. be it for entertainment or work.
once you can 3D print your own humans, genetically/biologically enslaved to you, perfect human-like droids, whatever you imagine, any human with agency is a liability and threat to your godlike future.
that is what psychos will see. get out of your retarded communist fantasies anon.

>>15799895
Socialism goes against the economy. Its a meme economy.
>the goverment owns everything therefore evebody will be equal
That shit sounds retarded.
No matter how you edit the genes, the economy will go against you.
Remember..people were socialists and communists in USSR, commies had all the power to implement socialist policies and it failed.

>>15799914
right but the point is, it's all under physics at the end of the day, our economies are just a result of our psychologies which are dictated by our biology, but we can control our biology that's my point.

>>15799916
I see. I personally wouldnt know what exactly to target, how this human would act and feel like, we have no reliable philosophy, no humans no copy from, they're literally aliens.
Its an interesting idea though.

>>15799916
>but we can control our biology that's my point.
the environment not so much. as in resources and shit.
fucking with genes might wipe us out if we don't have good tech backup to get us out of any shits.

leftychan.net raid thread

>>15799900 (me)
nevermind the fact that they already have the DNA of who knows how many millions of people of all ethnicity. they have enough data to rebuild (at least biologically) good part of humans alive today. once AI robos can fully replace all humans the clock starts ticking

>>15799927
I wondered why the IQ dropped so far

>>15799781
If someone ever becomes able yo engineer humanity, they will like engineer humanity into being slaves, which is kinda what socialism needs for it to work anyway.

>>15799781 (OP) #
If someone ever becomes able to engineer humanity, they will likely engineer humanity into being slaves, which is kinda what socialism needs for it to work anyway.

>>15799927
leftypol/leftychan are delusional and don't/can't acknowledge our biological reality.
I, OP, represent my self

>>15799781
Probably not because you'd have to make everyone exactly the same. Either that or you allow differences and so some people be more productive than others. In that case you will have to make people be happy with working harder than others. That is, you'll have to breed people to enjoy slavery.

>>15799781
That's why Lysenko was so popular with Stalin.

He said if you horse whipped the Russians over and over they would even pass on their acquired Socialist traits to their descendants.

>>15799781
Premise is wrong. Human nature is adapted to its material conditions.

>>15800051
aren't we all slaves to our desires anyways?

>>15800058
Stalin and Hitler basically both had a cartoonish understanding of evolution

>>15799829
Human nature has failed.
Billions must die.

>>15800332
human nature has indeed failed. Anyone who thinks that we will prosper in the coming years is deluding themself. Billions will die. Every generation is a reset. The gathering and passing down of crucial knowledge does not happen in an adequate way. We multiple and fuck everything up like a virus. Agent Smith is right

https://leftychan.net/leftypol/

I am unironically transhumanist, not in the onions sense but humanity should be overhauled through genetic engineering. Humanity's ills come from our simian nature, believing in primitive concepts like "the self" and "individuality". The simian nature should be changed into a more insectoid one, then concepts like socialism or whatever will become completely unnecessary.

>>15799781
It is cooperative, healthy people are generally unable to function too much without it. It's a bit ironic that this phrase is used by the supporters of the most inhuman system ever devised.

>>15800417
it's cooperative, but it's not cooperative enough.

>>15799789
>heterotrophism.
yeah but plants are too stupid to reason, its not our fault we are the top of the food chain and want to survive and prosper into the future.

>>15800467
It is, the west is just ruled by asocial people who see cooperation as a defect (and most of the world population as defective).

>>15799829
>Every time someone tries a socialism, the CIA comes and tries a coup. Therefore, socialism bad.

>>15800486
Based CIA jews delaying human progress
>t. CIA bourgeois boot licking nigger

>>15799781
In the long term it will be possible as natural selection in humans rewards cooperation. We will evolve into an ant-like hivemind.
Because it just makes survival much easier. Neanderthals were said to be smarter than modern humans, cro-magnon too, but lacked cooperation. They would not share knowledge, they would not help each other, they would not make collective plans.

>>15799781
Yes. They wanted to make gene altered clones named homo sovieticus

>>15800558
>In the long term it will be possible as natural selection in humans rewards cooperation
because of the environment. the environment favors cooperation. favored it.
the environment which contains godlike tech powers won't reward cooperation as it will reward backstabbing.
ie, you can't do more/get more power by cooperating, since you already have the power,the whole tech/ai setup. if that becomes fully autonomous, the environment cannot reward cooperation. whoever is using the tech to cross everyone else, "wins".

>>15799781
God did it, we call them Koreans.

>>15800600
So that's why libertarians do everything in their power to destroy the environment.

>>15800600
Bullshit

Enviroment will always reward coperation unless you introduce a non rational visceral emotion

>>15799781
Why would you want everyone to be able to tell you what to do all the time? Why do you hate freedom personally? And why do you want to habitually take it away? To me the ultimate future is ultimate freedom to everyone. Truly open and free markets is the best engine to close the gini coefficient gap, which is what you commies are always raving about in capitalist systems.

>>15800611
if you get more out of crossing someone, then you ever could possibly get (mathematically speaking), cooperating with another human is a huge risk. if the cooperation reward is small to nothing compared to what you get out of backstabbing, eventually someone will do it and get all power.
that depends on the environment, not human nature. this "human nature" is at most a best response for situations in an environment.
this environment half of the equation, this is changing, and with an autonomous and aligned AI system, that is controllable by a single human, changes the environment, and thus the rules.
you can play by old rules, thinking shit, sure. but statistically speaking you will wipe.
if you don't technically need anything from any human, ever, because anything a human can do for you you can now do yourself through the help of said AI system, doing shit with other humans is a major risk.

>>15799781
Daily reminder that usa bankers bankrolled the communist revolution.
You can read more in Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution.

>>15800639 me
the part some of you just can't fathom is you being useless in comparison with an AI system.
you always were useful, you could suck a cock and bottom line you'd still be worth something.
it's really tripping many of you, the idea of you being completely worthless, I mean practically not some other shit you fantasize about.
the moment you are completely useless, whoever has power does not and will not ever cooperate with you. just like your boss fires you when he doesn't need you anymore. there's not much you can tell your boss to keep you hired, if that job you were doing is not needed anymore. there's no flower power kumbaya speech you can hold in front of your boss, you are gone bro.
that is what will happen in the end, all humans will get fired, dead fired as in. you just can't fathom such a thing.

>>15800639
The natural human reaction is to beat up the backstabber, but that is called a crime today.

>>15800657
if by backstabbing they get said power then you're not doing the beating anon

>>15800486
>Muh CIA
The CIA is almost never directly involved in coups, at best they'll spread propaganda and MAYBE give weapons to rebels.

>>15800662
I like to imagine this post was written by that one chill CIA agent
>cmon bruh, we ain't doin all dat

>>15800662
How dumb are you anon, they send field agents they hire opposition newspapers infiltrate organizations etc, if you superficially look at their expenses you find them casually around the incidents each time

>>15800657
Normies are easily tricked by psychopaths and narcissists, that's the main issue.
normies vote for psychos and even marry psychos, psychos trick normies into liking and trusting them.
if you (likely only an autist would stand up against a psycho) point out their bullshit they will turn the entire goddamn tribe against you.

>>15800658
There is little power when you are getting beaten up. It's only because your life is so influenced by satanic law so much (which rewards this behaviour and protects those who are willing to cheat) that you think it could work.

>>15800639
Greed is a visceral emotion never forget that maximizing profit is not a rational endeavor is a brain fart, optimal is always a moderate amount unless you have to deal with greedy

>>15800662
Glow alert
Ok officer

>>15800664
>they hire opposition newspapers
That goes under spreading propaganda no?
>infiltrate organizations
Mainly to keep track of activity in the region, often they'll support organisations that agree with their interests, but they are almost never the main cause of coups.
>you find them casually around the incidents each time
It's an intelligence agency, what do you think those are for?

Name one case where it could be argued CIA involvement was the main cause of a coup.

>>15800670
well sure, for "normal" humans. maybe. even if, you'd all ("normal" humans) get fucked by a psycho, in the end.

>>15800695
Infiltrate organization find the coup wanting retard say hey you should lead us, many such cases

>>15800695
man glow niggers like you really can't stop gaslighting and goal shifting can you?

>>15800702
That's not an example.

>>15800600
You cannot develop technology without multi-generational cooperation of millions of people

>>15800704
Chile 1973 the chilean army

>>15800707
yeah CLEARLY
what I'm saying is that eventually everybody will be fucked. we are all working now for that one human to inherit everything.

>>15800715
The last one

Do it often enough and you get a working collective society, define the need of tht one human fulfill it move to the next one

>>15800662
And MAYBE abducting, torturing and/or murdering some folks. But you know, kinda indirectly. Oh, and training the right-wing rebels, including but not limited to how to torture.

>>15800710
The CIA was not activly supporting the coup. They were probably in favor of it happening, but all the documents relating to the matter imply that the CIA had not direct involvement.

>>15800718
>fulfill it
that's the thing, there will be a psycho who'll want everything. all of it.
keep in mind that tech can and will be disruptive.
humans are uset to history and some inertia and most humans won't really think about it, which is quite fortunate for whoever wants it all. makes things easier.

>>15800719
>right-wing rebels
Mostly left-wing opposition to the pro-soviet left actually, see Angola for instance.

>>15800720
Panama...

They not only trained them talked to them and introduced agents into the army

>>15800725
Don't pander to the psycho anon simple as, is this to complicated for you?

>>15800732
>Don't pander to the psycho anon simple as, is this to complicated for you?
sure. let's see...how much % of people holding real power are psychos? power selects for psychos ffs

>>15800732
That was before a military invasion at the end of the cold war, not a local coup.

>>15800738
Oh you didn't knew

They started training soldiers on panama way b4 73 my grandps was there

>>15800735
Well what % of people are power not that many easy to identify and prevent pandering to

>>15800718
>The last one
the eternal one.
what would make you collaborate with someone who has nothing to offer to you, that you don't already have/can make with a mere thought?

>>15800749
The experience of helping someone, I just enjoy it

>>15800751
this human god can build a civ that's going into a very bad place then intervene and help billions of people at once. gets more out of that than out of helping you.
your enjoyment from helping someone is something you like/want. people in need receive your help in exchange for the feeling you get. you do it for a reason anon, you get something out of it. I don't care if you think "but no see this is moral and shit". doesn't matter, you have a need. you fool yourself with morals and shit how much you want, bottom line you have a need that can be fulfilled by someone needing help. it's an exchange, you get something out of it.
any kind of whatever you can imagine can be had with a mere thought by such human techno-god.
what do you do when you have nothing to offer?

>>15800756
So why I can't get something if it implies someone else gets something?

Do you dislike coperation so much that you need to get god into it b4 she doesn't require a reward

>>15800761
>Do you dislike coperation so much that
no I'm not telling you what I want/like, I'm telling you what I think is most likely to happen based on everything I know about the environment and humans.
why do humans tend to think what I am saying is shit I personally enjoy? that's so primitive in a sense.
>bruh that guy is stealing shit
>oh so YOU enjoy stealing shit anon?

>>15800761
>So why I can't get something if it implies someone else gets something?
you can, there's nothing wrong with that. do do it as often as you can. wouldn't mind running into such folk.
bro you're weirdly making it about you and me. I can't talk like that

>>15799781
The correct thing to do is to exterminate every and all the communist roaches like you.

>>15800726
Ah yes, the CIA famously backing left-wing rebels. Many such cases. You're glowing so bright it burns my retinas.

>>15800332
>>15800340
You pieces of shit deserve to be flayed and then burned alive.

>>15800764
Most likely to happen is our problem why we need coperation

>>15800769
Weirdly... am just replying to you seems natural and sounds natural

>>15800770
The town retard arrived

>>15799781
Engeneering gastrointestinal bacteria to produce psilocyn from banana is what you have to do.

That's simplest way to achieve it. Trust me.

>>15799781
Can you design any competitive cooperation game on behalf of game theory? You know, stuff like Nash equilibrium, but for non-enforced competitive cooperation.

>>15800823
>competitive cooperation.
WTF is that supposed to mean?

>>15800819
Dr Huxley what are you doing here?

>>15800824
Coperation competing against competitive culture the alpha vs the whole

May work

>>15800819
Subtle anon thanks

>The CIA is behind the collapse of every single communist country

>>15800838
Sure ain't helping them

>>15800834
That's tribalism, not cooperation.

>>15800853
So you want larger tribalism?

Humankind as one tribe, b4 coperation doesn't change the group cooerating does

>>15799781
The only way to make socialism work with genetic engineering would be to turn mankind into a hivemind species whose constantly changing individual desires are instantly communicated to the rest of humanity. This would require extensive genetic changes to everyone, not also counting the difficulty in making such drastic changes to mature humans, but also adapting the human mind to be able to cope with having no privacy, etc.

Or you could just use the price system.

>>15800880
Anon I had one need

Can you plz help me instead of messing my entire life my genes and society just to win an argument online?

>>15800888
not him but it might be impossible, for real, to "get along" as it were. when you factor in everything it doesn't make sense, unless somehow everybody agrees to the rules, instead of just doing whatever the environment permits.
what happens today is not because we're humans and we like cooperation. it's just that in the current setup the environment allows for gains this way. we cooperate because the environment favors it, right now. cooperation is not something we choose, it's something we figured out allows for more. now, at this state of the game.
when the environment changes, some humans will try to speculate it in new ways, if they find something they'll keep using it over and over, because why not, they get more out of it.
your story needs to make sense. whatever you propose must be doable in reality. in practice.

>>15800872
I don't want any tribalism. You came up with it.
Tribism exists at multiple levels, you can't have just one group. Even if one tribal group totally dominated, the fights would continue unimpeded at the level that exists below. It's fractal conflict, more or less.

>>15800475
you say that like humans are good at reasoning. notice how so frequently the best of intentions tend to overwhelmingly fail so spectacularly. being at the top of the food chain is just a cope in phrasing, what it really means is being the most vulnerable and dependent on other species to survive. plants lacking what humans perceive as reasoning are logarithmically more successful. so we have farming now sure, but most of that is producing assorted carcinogenic slop that just fulfills a caloric intake devoid of other key nutrients plants make all on their own. humans are a species of most-likely-to-be dead end failures that will sooner nuke ourselves into oblivion over petty squabbles than do anything close to being gods living amongst the stars.

>>15800897
Anon, take any social interaction any besides, rape, murder and datamining and you will find coperation, go ahead give any example of not coperation if I can't wait for it someone else will.

>>15800903
Tough luck then should have choose to be born on other species cause this one developed society on tribalism.

>>15800941
>social interaction
that's an exchange. happens if you need something. you need something from others. even if presence only, around you. that is something you get from being amongst humans.
as a techno-god, or potential one, that can be solved safely, without agency having humans.
say you get two options, one is to live your life but be exposed to anything, like you are now, and another version just like the other just that you are guaranteed nothing bad can happen to you.
which one do you think most people will choose? what about most psychos?

>>15800951
Now we fill the excuses folder

Why they hate small communities like the amish and those israeli ones that got attacked recently

>>15799781
>YangGang2120
>My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?

>>15800984
Bad end

>>15799781
Yes. You WILL own nothing and you will be happy.

>>15801005
This

After all the greedy ones ruin it for the rest

>>15799781
Not ethically.

>>15802131
What if you made an rna vaccine to reduce greed?

Just change the parameters in the computer making the vaccine simulation for another disease, the only problem would be to inoculate tbe majority of the population, some may die by unexpected side effects of course, like poor administration of the vaccine, human error can't blame the ai